Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Not really. Froobs can still manage to get wards off celestial coin enchantment boxes. Granted one random ward per week, but it's still doable.
It doesn't matter it's theoretically possible. The fact that you can still buy literally everything makes it p2w. That is at least the definition for some people.
Technically not everything. Some pets are impossible to get without paying, and I don't think we've done a full comparison of pets to see if something like honey badger is vastly preferable to the kitty cat (granted odds are the kitty cat is better). (note I'm NOT factoring zen/AD exchange here)
Everything from the cash shop can be acquired by playing the game. All you have to do is convert AD to ZEN. That's how I've gotten a couple of things already, I haven't spent anything except the founder packs, and I have more AD than what I got from the packs.
You do not need to pay in order to succeed in this game's PvE aspect, so no P2W there. I'm not a PvP-er, so can someone definitively tell me if paying enough money equals a much higher win rate in PvP?
As of current, unless you somehow managed to farm up enough AD to get T3 mounts, people who bought T3 mounts by Zen or founders pack has a slight advantage. (random note, if you reroll a lot or like more character slots, getting the $60 founder's pack might be a good idea, since it gives every new character a T3 mount)
wow just wow stupid kids and players that dont have a ****ing clue wtf you dooing and p2w a you ****ing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ppl ? p2w is when you have items weapons /armors/end game zones that you must spend $ thats p2w not this **** that you can buy all things with astral diamonds o and btw with all your **** then 99% of mmo is ****ing p2w o you cant get more inventory space with gold you must $ o its p2w you cant buy 200% speed mount with gold its p2w rly kids go and lick briks
*buys AD*
*buys end game gear*
*buys more AD*
*buys best enchants*
*buys more AD*
*buys wards*
*in 20 mins has best gear in the game, with best enchants*
Everything from the cash shop can be acquired by playing the game. All you have to do is convert AD to ZEN. That's how I've gotten a couple of things already, I haven't spent anything except the founder packs, and I have more AD than what I got from the packs.
Zen:AD market is not a get out of P2W free card, and it requires someone to actually be buying said zen to trade in the market.
I personally wouldn't spend real money on fake digital stuff... talk about a racket. There's a sucker born every minute eh?
I have better things to do with my real money that I work real hard for then to spend it on fake stuff that has absolutely no value in real life.
In games stores are there to rip off suckers imo.
Bet that pissed of some young kid who just dumped 200 bucks on a founders pack lol.
I'd like to comment on this sort of mindset, if I may. First, depending upon the cost of going out in your area, that $200 may very well provide many more hours of enjoyment if invested in a game, than going out. Looking at things in context, when it comes to spending money, is very important. $200 is probably less than 10 visits to the movies for some people, or less than a single trip to an amusement park. Especially if you're someone who has mobility problems, or some other sort of issue that makes going out difficult, the dozens of hours something like an MMO can provide makes this kind of investment well worthwhile.
Your attitude tells me that you haven't taken all angles into account with such purchases. Heck, bagging lunch for a few months instead of getting takeout easily amounts to $200...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Difference is you can hit 60 and get all the same gear you could without spending a dime. I run with guys like that. A pay to win means you have to pay to win, not get an advantage from paying or reducing the time to hit endgame. Therein is the difference.
EXACTLY my gear i didn't pay to win for it, i earned it with epic dungeons, pvp and time.....pay to win is an excuse.
*buys AD*
*buys end game gear*
*buys more AD*
*buys best enchants*
*buys more AD*
*buys wards*
*in 20 mins has best gear in the game, with best enchants*
yep...not p2w at all...
Convenience is not P2W. If it's feasible/reasonable to get said everything normally, it's pay for convenience, period. The question is whether it's feasible/reasonable to get said everything normally.
Yes, it is. That doesn't make it a bad (or good) game. Cryptic and PWE are not charitable organizations, they have a single goal, to make money. Seriously, look at the cash shop in STO, it's pack with P2W stuff.
The point of this is simple.
Play the game for what it is, or don't play. They are not going to change the business model they use for their game. Complaining about the cash shop in a F2P game is actually a pretty high degree of "DERP".
Yes it is, you say? How? Which item(s)? Apparently going around saying this or that is pay to win but not sure yourself why is not really convincing. Cryptic and PWE makes money... so? Name one free to play MMORPG that is so charitable as to not make money? I can't think of any; care to enlighten us? From what I know, free MMO comes with cash shop for income other wise it is pay or subscribe to play. I mean I am sure you are only so kind as to work in a job without pay yes? but sadly not many people are that modest. And which item in the cash shop are P2W? Will you kindly list one or two? I think I am blind because I do not see any at first sight.
You are not wrong technically, but an extremist. An extremist would be like Zen to buy costumes = Pay to win fashion! Pay to win in this and that! If we go by the book, it is not pay to win, or not nearly as you think it to be. How much more win is someone who spends $10,000 USD compared to someone who does not spend a single penny? Will their gear score be 1 higher? Haha if someone spends that much and end up lower gear score I would laugh. Well I have only been playing for like 3 days, so unless NW is like some MMO where cash shop gears adds stats and the sorts that you can NOT get other wise then it is Not pay to win. By the way, pay for convenience will in NO way make you win more than someone who does not pay anything. Not convinced? Use a dictionary or even search up multiple sources to find out the difference between win and convenience.
Everything from the cash shop can be acquired by playing the game. All you have to do is convert AD to ZEN. That's how I've gotten a couple of things already, I haven't spent anything except the founder packs, and I have more AD than what I got from the packs.
Someone has to buy the zen for you to buy it from them, someone has to pay for you to get that stuff. If no one was selling zen you wouldn't be able to get those things. Money has to be paid by SOMEONE somewhere, to get anything in the cash shop. If it takes 600 dollars worth of wards to get the top level enchants, and every player in the game wants them, then that $600 per player will have to come from somewhere.
As of current, unless you somehow managed to farm up enough AD to get T3 mounts, people who bought T3 mounts by Zen or founders pack has a slight advantage. (random note, if you reroll a lot or like more character slots, getting the $60 founder's pack might be a good idea, since it gives every new character a T3 mount)
Yeah getting the guardian pack is a really good value. But you could get the AD needed to upgrade the mounts by selling boe stuff on the AH. Not sure how long this will hold though, seeing as the prices have dropped a lot, there's to much supply and to less demand now, sure the alts will help but I doubt you can make the same ammount you used to. Then we have all the AD sinks that will remove a lot of the foundry ad we've had in circulation. In the end they will need to adjust the ad prices.
wow just wow stupid kids and players that dont have a ****ing clue wtf you dooing and p2w a you ****ing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ppl ? p2w is when you have items weapons /armors/end game zones that you must spend $ thats p2w not this **** that you can buy all things with astral diamonds o and btw with all your **** then 99% of mmo is ****ing p2w o you cant get more inventory space with gold you must $ o its p2w you cant buy 200% speed mount with gold its p2w rly kids go and lick briks
First all of you can't even buy bags with gold in NW, but the bags are very accessible in WoW. Still bags aren't considered in this discussion. It's mainly about gear and stat advantage.
If you are saying certain content is locked then I still don't consider that p2w. It's more like a trial version if you ask me, but in WoW you do need to buy xpac to unlock more levels and content. This is a perfectly acceptable model and no one considers that p2w.
I seriously don't understand how some of you came to that kind of definition.
Someone has to buy the zen for you to buy it from them, someone has to pay for you to get that stuff. If no one was selling zen you wouldn't be able to get those things. Money has to be paid by SOMEONE somewhere, to get anything in the cash shop. If it takes 600 dollars worth of wards to get the top level enchants, and every player in the game wants them, then that $600 per player will have to come from somewhere.
So? yes, somone has to spend zen for that, but people will do that. The wards can be acquired outside the store, you have the AH and the daily prayer system for that aswell.. You do not HAVE to have the top enchants to do the current pve, no idea how the endgame will change things, but for now, you can still do it without having problems.. People are running around with rank 5 enchants.
And another thing, in the future AD will be worth a lot, so getting a high ammount of zen will be easier and cheaper.
Are the advantages provided by cash shop items significant?
Will people be unwelcome in parties without the best in gear/stats?
How long will it take to get the items without laying out cash?
How much RNG is involved in getting the best stuff?
These are the questions you should be asking, not, "Is this pay to win?"
_________________________________________________
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
*buys AD*
*buys end game gear*
*buys more AD*
*buys best enchants*
*buys more AD*
*buys wards*
*in 20 mins has best gear in the game, with best enchants*
yep...not p2w at all...
No I agree, not p2w, because you can get all of those things with just playing the game. What you just said was pay to get stuff faster. Pay to win is if the item in question cannot be acquired without having to spend irl money..
I sometimes give people <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about critical thinking, following a thought out past, lets say, the very first sentence spoken on the matter. So when someone offers up the idea that this game isn't a charity and how its first goal is to make money. Its like a delicious slow softball coming in right over the plate. And I can only hope that you too will pay this forward perhaps in a less annoying way than me.
Yes there is the idea of making money and I don't think anyone of any cogency is disputing that point. But making money doing what? Exactly what is Cryptic and PWE doing to make money? They are making a game. Now lets not get bogged down in defining games, we all know what games are or we wouldn't be here debating this one.
Most games are conflict based and have a winner and a loser, populations of either may vary. But the real trick to a game is that no one knows if they are going to be that winner or that loser going in. Thats where the fun starts. Will I win? Will I lose? I don't know! Ermegerd, lerts find owwwt!
P2W, however, dries up that original font of fun and leaves you with nothing more than a dry Gothic fountain of frustration. It either quietly or not so quietly informs the player that they either will or will not be winning before the contest ever takes place. It would be like buying a chess set only to find that it only contained a single piece that said “you win” on it. That will show those chess-hobos in the park!
So while there is money to be made, one could make money selling ice cream or washing cars or even in those awful “rent-to-own” places. But they decided to make games. And just like pouring a bunch of parts into a box doesn't make a car, pouring a bunch of ideas into a computer doesn't make a game. You actually have to put them together correctly. And losing touch with core concepts like “how do people have fun in games.” is a little like forgetting to add in the wheels for our box car. I don't want a car that doesn't move and I don't want a game that isn't fun...and also rent-to-own places suck.
On a completely unrelated note, for several thousand AD you can get your own version of this post that talks how massively cool you are and how everyone else wishes you were their friend. You don't HAVE to buy it. But its there for you. You know, whenevs.
So? yes, somone has to spend zen for that, but people will do that. The wards can be acquired outside the store, you have the AH and the daily prayer system for that aswell.. You do not HAVE to have the top enchants to do the current pve, no idea how the endgame will change things, but for now, you can still do it without having problems.. People are running around with rank 5 enchants.
And another thing, in the future AD will be worth a lot, so getting a high ammount of zen will be easier and cheaper.
I'm unsure how you come to the conclusion that AD will be worth a lot. In fact, it's usually the inverse, that ingame based currency undergoes inflation compared to Zen (based on examples of other games which uses similar exchange markets, like Spiral Knights energy exchange). The current opposite situation is very likely an anomaly.
No I agree, not p2w, because you can get all of those things with just playing the game. What you just said was pay to get stuff faster. Pay to win is if the item in question cannot be acquired without having to spend irl money..
if there is any item in the cash shop that helps you in pvp i have not seen it. I have played many pvp matches and totally wreck people and i have yet to purchase anything from the cash shop. Most of the people I wreck in pvp have Founders under there name for a title as well so they obviously spent money but i still own them in pvp. the cash shop is mostly has **** for looks or to respec your Toon in one way or another and alot of the items like the damage booster and <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> say not usuable in pvp. game is not P2W in my opinion.
I'm unsure how you come to the conclusion that AD will be worth a lot. In fact, it's usually the inverse, that ingame based currency undergoes inflation compared to Zen (based on examples of other games which uses similar exchange markets, like Spiral Knights energy exchange). The current opposite situation is very likely an anomaly.
Because it's already started to be worth more, and it will probably go down to 1 zen vs 200 ad, instead of the 1 zen vs 500 ad we had before. The reason why it had less worth before was because of the ammount of founder ad that was going around. If you look at other Cryptic titles the same thing can be seen there.
Are the advantages provided by cash shop items significant?
Will people be unwelcome in parties without the best in gear/stats?
How long will it take to get the items without laying out cash?
How much RNG is involved in getting the best stuff?
These are the questions you should be asking, not, "Is this pay to win?"
I agree somewhat, the P2W label is often thrown around, and by design this game has at least given folks who clearly don't comprehend it, the illusion that you can just grind past it, however given the time frame that would take, it completely and utterly negates itself, I honestly think with no offense intended, that's where the failure to comprehend has occured.
What is the point in grinding out something over a year (the enchants) for one of the paid advantages, and they ARE advantages no matter how much you can argue that they're not massive. The first and cardinal rule repeated in every single discussion for a F2P model is ALWAYS the same one, NEVER.SELL.POWER. It only opens up the floodgates for this kind of stuff, and so if this leads to the game failing on it's feet and not reaching it's potential (I'm not insinuating that it definitely will ofc) then I wouldn't in the least bit surprised, because whilst this game is far ahead of the other obvious cash gougers in SOME area's it's still MILES off enough to get EVERYONE to WANT to pitch in, heck there's been like little to no interaction from anyone from PWE/Cryptic save for one comment on (I think) the party issues.
If you don't interact with your customers you give the illusion of a disconnect, even if there is none. In one regard I prefer they keep up the same level of neglect from the get go mind you, Arenanet came out of the starting gate guns blazing, and then very quickly lessened off with the interaction and then resorted to just throwing out blogs or AMA's that avoided the difficult questions.
all I keep saying is that we've been SHOWN better, and other games ARE treating us better, you've a really attractive game here, it's a total shame it's clearly got a terrible personality and it's clearly bordering on suckering us into an abusive relationship, already folks are in that stage, where they will defend it as if criticizing the game was some personal attack on them, or twisting it to make out we're in some way jealous, or self entitled etc.
god those parallels... I kinda shocked myself a little
I sometimes give people <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about critical thinking, following a thought out past, lets say, the very first sentence spoken on the matter. So when someone offers up the idea that this game isn't a charity and how its first goal is to make money. Its like a delicious slow softball coming in right over the plate. And I can only hope that you too will pay this forward perhaps in a less annoying way than me.
Yes there is the idea of making money and I don't think anyone of any cogency is disputing that point. But making money doing what? Exactly what is Cryptic and PWE doing to make money? They are making a game. Now lets not get bogged down in defining games, we all know what games are or we wouldn't be here debating this one.
Most games are conflict based and have a winner and a loser, populations of either may vary. But the real trick to a game is that no one knows if they are going to be that winner or that loser going in. Thats where the fun starts. Will I win? Will I lose? I don't know! Ermegerd, lerts find owwwt!
P2W, however, dries up that original font of fun and leaves you with nothing more than a dry Gothic fountain of frustration. It either quietly or not so quietly informs the player that they either will or will not be winning before the contest ever takes place. It would be like buying a chess set only to find that it only contained a single piece that said “you win” on it. That will show those chess-hobos in the park!
So while there is money to be made, one could make money selling ice cream or washing cars or even in those awful “rent-to-own” places. But they decided to make games. And just like pouring a bunch of parts into a box doesn't make a car, pouring a bunch of ideas into a computer doesn't make a game. You actually have to put them together correctly. And losing touch with core concepts like “how do people have fun in games.” is a little like forgetting to add in the wheels for our box car. I don't want a car that doesn't move and I don't want a game that isn't fun...and also rent-to-own places suck.
On a completely unrelated note, for several thousand AD you can get your own version of this post that talks how massively cool you are and how everyone else wishes you were their friend. You don't HAVE to buy it. But its there for you. You know, whenevs.
Hahha that gave me such a good vibe reading this, might have to take you up on your generous offer.
Because it's already started to be worth more, and it will probably go down to 1 zen vs 200 ad, instead of the 1 zen vs 500 ad we had before. The reason why it had less worth before was because of the ammount of founder ad that was going around. If you look at other Cryptic titles the same thing can be seen there.
Admittedly I haven't played other cryptic titles much, so I can't comment on those much, but if so, I would like to applaud Cryptic for managing extremely good money sinks.
Basically, whenever a game offers significant advantages for paying money, it becomes pay-to-win. No, you don’t actually pay to win, but you do stack the odds significantly in your favour
Some of you should read the whole article because you are using an extremely odd definition of p2w.
I think this game should be called "pay to win faster". Eventually, everybody will be able to have all the same things, it will just take a longer amount of time if you're not willing to cough up real munniez. Everything can be bought with zen, wich can be traded for astral diamonds, wich can be farmed ingame. Yes, farmed. Grinded. And yes, it's gonna take a long time. That's the downside for many people, IF you're not willing to pay up and get it *immediately*. So either be patient or pay. And that's why people are calling it unfair; wich is... actually when you look at it, not. Cause you do have a choice. If you're not willing to make it or don't have the resources to do so, well then imo don't go nagging on the forums, it's the way this game is made and there's nothing you can do it about it. It's still a company that gives you free content after all, but they still need to get some money out of it somewhere.
Also this shortly after "launch" is such a bad time to take a look at the "economy" for exchanging zen-diamonds and diamonds-zen. People are still trying to get rid of it by ridiculous prices, this should change drasticly in the next few weeks, where it should become normal to flip them. I see the currencies drop a little bit every day.
So far the only thing that has annoyed me a little bit is the price for a respec. In a game where **** like that can change and obviously you're gonna make mistakes cause it's a new character/mmo, I figured they'd lower the cost a bit or let you use gold for it, to respec when you see fit. So atm I'm just saving my diamonds for my first respec and playing the AH. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what they sell in the shop. If people wanna spend zen on it, let them.
Comments
I believe that is GG. /thread
It doesn't matter it's theoretically possible. The fact that you can still buy literally everything makes it p2w. That is at least the definition for some people.
Everything from the cash shop can be acquired by playing the game. All you have to do is convert AD to ZEN. That's how I've gotten a couple of things already, I haven't spent anything except the founder packs, and I have more AD than what I got from the packs.
As of current, unless you somehow managed to farm up enough AD to get T3 mounts, people who bought T3 mounts by Zen or founders pack has a slight advantage. (random note, if you reroll a lot or like more character slots, getting the $60 founder's pack might be a good idea, since it gives every new character a T3 mount)
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
*buys AD*
*buys end game gear*
*buys more AD*
*buys best enchants*
*buys more AD*
*buys wards*
*in 20 mins has best gear in the game, with best enchants*
yep...not p2w at all...
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
I'd like to comment on this sort of mindset, if I may. First, depending upon the cost of going out in your area, that $200 may very well provide many more hours of enjoyment if invested in a game, than going out. Looking at things in context, when it comes to spending money, is very important. $200 is probably less than 10 visits to the movies for some people, or less than a single trip to an amusement park. Especially if you're someone who has mobility problems, or some other sort of issue that makes going out difficult, the dozens of hours something like an MMO can provide makes this kind of investment well worthwhile.
Your attitude tells me that you haven't taken all angles into account with such purchases. Heck, bagging lunch for a few months instead of getting takeout easily amounts to $200...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
EXACTLY my gear i didn't pay to win for it, i earned it with epic dungeons, pvp and time.....pay to win is an excuse.
Convenience is not P2W. If it's feasible/reasonable to get said everything normally, it's pay for convenience, period. The question is whether it's feasible/reasonable to get said everything normally.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Yes it is, you say? How? Which item(s)? Apparently going around saying this or that is pay to win but not sure yourself why is not really convincing. Cryptic and PWE makes money... so? Name one free to play MMORPG that is so charitable as to not make money? I can't think of any; care to enlighten us? From what I know, free MMO comes with cash shop for income other wise it is pay or subscribe to play. I mean I am sure you are only so kind as to work in a job without pay yes? but sadly not many people are that modest. And which item in the cash shop are P2W? Will you kindly list one or two? I think I am blind because I do not see any at first sight.
You are not wrong technically, but an extremist. An extremist would be like Zen to buy costumes = Pay to win fashion! Pay to win in this and that! If we go by the book, it is not pay to win, or not nearly as you think it to be. How much more win is someone who spends $10,000 USD compared to someone who does not spend a single penny? Will their gear score be 1 higher? Haha if someone spends that much and end up lower gear score I would laugh. Well I have only been playing for like 3 days, so unless NW is like some MMO where cash shop gears adds stats and the sorts that you can NOT get other wise then it is Not pay to win. By the way, pay for convenience will in NO way make you win more than someone who does not pay anything. Not convinced? Use a dictionary or even search up multiple sources to find out the difference between win and convenience.
Someone has to buy the zen for you to buy it from them, someone has to pay for you to get that stuff. If no one was selling zen you wouldn't be able to get those things. Money has to be paid by SOMEONE somewhere, to get anything in the cash shop. If it takes 600 dollars worth of wards to get the top level enchants, and every player in the game wants them, then that $600 per player will have to come from somewhere.
Yeah getting the guardian pack is a really good value. But you could get the AD needed to upgrade the mounts by selling boe stuff on the AH. Not sure how long this will hold though, seeing as the prices have dropped a lot, there's to much supply and to less demand now, sure the alts will help but I doubt you can make the same ammount you used to. Then we have all the AD sinks that will remove a lot of the foundry ad we've had in circulation. In the end they will need to adjust the ad prices.
First all of you can't even buy bags with gold in NW, but the bags are very accessible in WoW. Still bags aren't considered in this discussion. It's mainly about gear and stat advantage.
If you are saying certain content is locked then I still don't consider that p2w. It's more like a trial version if you ask me, but in WoW you do need to buy xpac to unlock more levels and content. This is a perfectly acceptable model and no one considers that p2w.
I seriously don't understand how some of you came to that kind of definition.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
So? yes, somone has to spend zen for that, but people will do that. The wards can be acquired outside the store, you have the AH and the daily prayer system for that aswell.. You do not HAVE to have the top enchants to do the current pve, no idea how the endgame will change things, but for now, you can still do it without having problems.. People are running around with rank 5 enchants.
And another thing, in the future AD will be worth a lot, so getting a high ammount of zen will be easier and cheaper.
Will people be unwelcome in parties without the best in gear/stats?
How long will it take to get the items without laying out cash?
How much RNG is involved in getting the best stuff?
These are the questions you should be asking, not, "Is this pay to win?"
I been a long time leaving but I'm going to be a long time gone.
Willie Nelson
T.U.F.K.A.S. (the user formerly known as Scarlyng)
Wrong on the CO forums since November, 2008
When hell freezes over or sales drop which ever comes first.
No I agree, not p2w, because you can get all of those things with just playing the game. What you just said was pay to get stuff faster. Pay to win is if the item in question cannot be acquired without having to spend irl money..
Yes there is the idea of making money and I don't think anyone of any cogency is disputing that point. But making money doing what? Exactly what is Cryptic and PWE doing to make money? They are making a game. Now lets not get bogged down in defining games, we all know what games are or we wouldn't be here debating this one.
Most games are conflict based and have a winner and a loser, populations of either may vary. But the real trick to a game is that no one knows if they are going to be that winner or that loser going in. Thats where the fun starts. Will I win? Will I lose? I don't know! Ermegerd, lerts find owwwt!
P2W, however, dries up that original font of fun and leaves you with nothing more than a dry Gothic fountain of frustration. It either quietly or not so quietly informs the player that they either will or will not be winning before the contest ever takes place. It would be like buying a chess set only to find that it only contained a single piece that said “you win” on it. That will show those chess-hobos in the park!
So while there is money to be made, one could make money selling ice cream or washing cars or even in those awful “rent-to-own” places. But they decided to make games. And just like pouring a bunch of parts into a box doesn't make a car, pouring a bunch of ideas into a computer doesn't make a game. You actually have to put them together correctly. And losing touch with core concepts like “how do people have fun in games.” is a little like forgetting to add in the wheels for our box car. I don't want a car that doesn't move and I don't want a game that isn't fun...and also rent-to-own places suck.
On a completely unrelated note, for several thousand AD you can get your own version of this post that talks how massively cool you are and how everyone else wishes you were their friend. You don't HAVE to buy it. But its there for you. You know, whenevs.
I'm unsure how you come to the conclusion that AD will be worth a lot. In fact, it's usually the inverse, that ingame based currency undergoes inflation compared to Zen (based on examples of other games which uses similar exchange markets, like Spiral Knights energy exchange). The current opposite situation is very likely an anomaly.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win
Not the defintion used here.
Because it's already started to be worth more, and it will probably go down to 1 zen vs 200 ad, instead of the 1 zen vs 500 ad we had before. The reason why it had less worth before was because of the ammount of founder ad that was going around. If you look at other Cryptic titles the same thing can be seen there.
I agree somewhat, the P2W label is often thrown around, and by design this game has at least given folks who clearly don't comprehend it, the illusion that you can just grind past it, however given the time frame that would take, it completely and utterly negates itself, I honestly think with no offense intended, that's where the failure to comprehend has occured.
What is the point in grinding out something over a year (the enchants) for one of the paid advantages, and they ARE advantages no matter how much you can argue that they're not massive. The first and cardinal rule repeated in every single discussion for a F2P model is ALWAYS the same one, NEVER.SELL.POWER. It only opens up the floodgates for this kind of stuff, and so if this leads to the game failing on it's feet and not reaching it's potential (I'm not insinuating that it definitely will ofc) then I wouldn't in the least bit surprised, because whilst this game is far ahead of the other obvious cash gougers in SOME area's it's still MILES off enough to get EVERYONE to WANT to pitch in, heck there's been like little to no interaction from anyone from PWE/Cryptic save for one comment on (I think) the party issues.
If you don't interact with your customers you give the illusion of a disconnect, even if there is none. In one regard I prefer they keep up the same level of neglect from the get go mind you, Arenanet came out of the starting gate guns blazing, and then very quickly lessened off with the interaction and then resorted to just throwing out blogs or AMA's that avoided the difficult questions.
all I keep saying is that we've been SHOWN better, and other games ARE treating us better, you've a really attractive game here, it's a total shame it's clearly got a terrible personality and it's clearly bordering on suckering us into an abusive relationship, already folks are in that stage, where they will defend it as if criticizing the game was some personal attack on them, or twisting it to make out we're in some way jealous, or self entitled etc.
god those parallels... I kinda shocked myself a little
Hahha that gave me such a good vibe reading this, might have to take you up on your generous offer.
Admittedly I haven't played other cryptic titles much, so I can't comment on those much, but if so, I would like to applaud Cryptic for managing extremely good money sinks.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Some of you should read the whole article because you are using an extremely odd definition of p2w.
Also this shortly after "launch" is such a bad time to take a look at the "economy" for exchanging zen-diamonds and diamonds-zen. People are still trying to get rid of it by ridiculous prices, this should change drasticly in the next few weeks, where it should become normal to flip them. I see the currencies drop a little bit every day.
So far the only thing that has annoyed me a little bit is the price for a respec. In a game where **** like that can change and obviously you're gonna make mistakes cause it's a new character/mmo, I figured they'd lower the cost a bit or let you use gold for it, to respec when you see fit. So atm I'm just saving my diamonds for my first respec and playing the AH. Otherwise, I couldn't care less what they sell in the shop. If people wanna spend zen on it, let them.