this way of thinking and acting went out the window and left on the wayside due to the WoW crowd. was extreemly rare to enounter these issues in UO, Eq, AC, DAoC... wow came around... all went to hell.
EQ had plenty of these issues. People sitting in the same camp(especially in Sebillis) day after day claiming they should get that lamentation sword because they were the only warrior/melee in the group, then later you see them selling it in the EC tunnel. You group with friends or guild mates, else you'll always run into someone that will abuse any loot system. That's the chance you take in a PUG...people simply don't play the way you do or the way you expect them to.
EQ had plenty of these issues. People sitting in the same camp(especially in Sebillis) day after day claiming they should get that lamentation sword because they were the only warrior/melee in the group, then later you see them selling it in the EC tunnel. You group with friends or guild mates, else you'll always run into someone that will abuse any loot system. That's the chance you take in a PUG...people simply don't play the way you do or the way you expect them to.
well arnt you just an unlucky clover. i did however say it was rare in the 9 years of playing had issues with them type of people maybe once / twice a month. unlike these days where the issue is once an hour at best... if your extreemly lucky.
Forming a group used to be something that was social, and players formed an unspoken social contract where you leave things I need for me, and in return I leave things you need for you. There was give and take, which was mutually beneficial. You can use that shiny new dagger that dropped? Fine, take it, but I get the chainmail that drops for my cleric, in exchange. This give and take used to be universally understood, and seen as benefitting the entire community.
It's sad to see pure greed is the new norm. This new culture which places greed above all else is rather short-sighted and shallow. These players certainly have no interest in building a community which has the best interests of everyone at its heart. You simply want what's best for yourself. That's unfortunate, and what's more unfortunate is that the majority of players, across all modern MMOs, would appear to be siding with you on this issue.
-Travail.
Whoa, easy there. I never said I was happy with this situation. I would prefer it to be as you paint in your first paragraph too. But that is not how it works any more, and I'll be damned if I miss out on phat loot because I try to be nice, play by the 'gentlemanly' rules.
As soon as I see one person in a PUG need on an off-class item, I start needing on everything I would like to have. Off-class items, enchants, crafting mats, everything. And I'm obviously 100% okay if everyone else does the same.
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huttjMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
As uncomfortable as it makes me, I must admit that you raise some valid points.
In my own personal experience, the key binds for need/greed/pass are very unwieldy. If they won't discard the loot system in favor of something else, I hope they will at least allow us to rebind those keys to something we can get to more easily.
Um, you can rebind them. I did to numpad 4, numpad 5, and shift-numpad 4 (mouse bindings for me).
Instead of the need/greed system, I would rather have where you can see your own loot or like dungeon tokens where you have to collect them to earn equipment. The current system at this point favors the selifsh in PUGs. Even if class items turn into BoP, you also have to worry about the unidentified items. How can you possibly roll on an item if you don't know what the stats are?
I can't stress this enough. ROLL NEED on everything. Give items to those who need it if you have to. But please tell others in your group about this situation that you're doing this or else you will look like a loot ninja.
well arnt you just an unlucky clover. i did however say it was rare in the 9 years of playing had issues with them type of people maybe once / twice a month. unlike these days where the issue is once an hour at best... if your extreemly lucky.
That`s the truth. I have been playing eq for years on and off since 02 and only ran into the problem once or twice. The rest of time spent ingame everyone was pretty respectful and generous when it came to loot. Hell make everything in neverwinter lore/no trade and this problem will disappear overnight. Then people will actually have to go out quest and do groups for items they want. Nobody will be rolling need on items they can`t use if it`s worthless and it can`t be traded.
Whoa, easy there. I never said I was happy with this situation. I would prefer it to be as you paint in your first paragraph too. But that is not how it works any more, and I'll be damned if I miss out on phat loot because I try to be nice, play by the 'gentlemanly' rules.
As soon as I see one person in a PUG need on an off-class item, I start needing on everything I would like to have. Off-class items, enchants, crafting mats, everything. And I'm obviously 100% okay if everyone else does the same.
My friends and I ran into this Idris with a TR who rolled Need on everything. Sadly, any MMO veteran is used to this now so we followed suit even on items for him. The team's other person called us on it and we explained that TR rolled Need on every single thing and that mollified him.
Like you, I still stick to old-school rule but throw it out the window without a second thought if other have already done so. I'll even PM others in the team to start rolling need so at least we all have an equal chance. I've already seen the usual stuff go on in PuGs and the AH with price-gouging and even items that you can buy for coppers/silver from a vendor being sold for astronomical amounts of AD in the hopes that you walk ignorantly into the con. It'll only get worse so just don't let your online "moral-code" get in your way once you see others who aren't bothering with it, folks.
I can't ever get myself to roll need unless it's a blue that doesn't need to be identified. How can I roll need on a green that I can't even see the stats of?
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I can't ever get myself to roll need unless it's a blue that doesn't need to be identified. How can I roll need on a green that I can't even see the stats of?
That is the thing. We have to ID the item (which is not normal for other MMO BUT it is common in D&D PnP version) so at this point, it is better to NEED all (unless you are with your friends who will follow the normal need-greed-pass method)
One way to cure this problem is to group with peeps you know or guild-mates if you in a guild. I tend to greed on off-class items and need on items for my class.
Unfortunately it takes 5 people to complete dungeons and EVERYONE is entitled to some loot. this is one of the reasons that gives PUG a bad name...
just to state this in the beginning. comming from other mmo s with bop items i only roll need if i do need it, old habits die hard i guess.
but after reading most of this posts, even some funny ones on game theory i'd really like to shed some basic math.
to everyone who wants rare items to be bop: think of how many items in other games you've vendored because they were bound on pick up and you didn't need them, apllying this system a group actually allways gets rewarded for running an instance, because there won't be any "worthless" drops anymore.
now lets go on to need or greed, as previously stated you could grey out the need button for classes who can't use that specific item, from the logical point of view that actually generates unfairness to, because if something for your class drops and you've allrady got something better, you can unfairly roll need.
from a psychological point of view i would still tend towards this kind of system as getting an item i need after a dungeoncrawl is a much better feeling than getting a worthless drop and then going to the AH and exchanging it for something i need.
One way to cure this problem is to group with peeps you know or guild-mates if you in a guild. I tend to greed on off-class items and need on items for my class.
Unfortunately it takes 5 people to complete dungeons and EVERYONE is entitled to some loot. this is one of the reasons that gives PUG a bad name...
Used to take 70 people to kill a dragon and only like 3-4 people got anything out of it. Everyone was entitled to something but if something they can`t use drops, why bother taking it from someone who can use it? Just do another run and hope your class gear drops this time and pray some other class don`t go rolling need on it.
I actually do believe everyone should get something from a run. But if my class loot don`t drop I`m SOL and I won`t roll need on other classes gear.
I support the message of revamping the loot system as well, it is too drama and ninja friendly. There are good alternatives for taking this annoyance out of the equation.
now lets go on to need or greed, as previously stated you could grey out the need button for classes who can't use that specific item, from the logical point of view that actually generates unfairness to, because if something for your class drops and you've allrady got something better, you can unfairly roll need.
Actually this is why I and at least one other person have been advocating that you can only NEED items that you class can use but then it become irrevocably bound to character. So even if an item is for your class but if you want to sell it or pass it to an alt you will need to GREED it......
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sasheriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
just to state this in the beginning. comming from other mmo s with bop items i only roll need if i do need it, old habits die hard i guess.
but after reading most of this posts, even some funny ones on game theory i'd really like to shed some basic math.
to everyone who wants rare items to be bop: think of how many items in other games you've vendored because they were bound on pick up and you didn't need them, apllying this system a group actually allways gets rewarded for running an instance, because there won't be any "worthless" drops anymore.
now lets go on to need or greed, as previously stated you could grey out the need button for classes who can't use that specific item, from the logical point of view that actually generates unfairness to, because if something for your class drops and you've allrady got something better, you can unfairly roll need.
from a psychological point of view i would still tend towards this kind of system as getting an item i need after a dungeoncrawl is a much better feeling than getting a worthless drop and then going to the AH and exchanging it for something i need.
True. consider it would probably take much more coding for PWE to "fix" the issue (i.e. only class can roll need) it depends on players too much. personally I would say just randomly assign to loots to everyone. Why even rolling?
the reason is that since the item is BoE, there is no "loss" the group can just easily give to another guildy if they won or keep it for themselves.
Used to take 70 people to kill a dragon and only like 3-4 people got anything out of it. Everyone was entitled to something but if something they can`t use drops, why bother taking it from someone who can use it? Just do another run and hope your class gear drops this time and pray some other class don`t go rolling need on it.
I actually do believe everyone should get something from a run. But if my class loot don`t drop I`m SOL and I won`t roll need on other classes gear.
What do you do if an instance has no loot for your class? I don't mean that nothing drops on that run, I mean if there's no possibility of anything dropping for your class because there's nothing in the loot tables?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
What do you do if an instance has no loot for your class? I don't mean that nothing drops on that run, I mean if there's no possibility of anything dropping for your class because there's nothing in the loot tables?
That's fine for you. Do you think the majority of people think that way? Because if they did, this debate would never have occurred.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I don't agree it should only be for usable loot if it's going to be boe. I don't think that's the right solution, but it should be changed somehow.
Also it's really annoying how the items take up practically your whole screen. Two items and you can't even see anything. Put them to the bottom or to the side.
Also it's really annoying how the items take up practically your whole screen. Two items and you can't even see anything. Put them to the bottom or to the side.
Pretty sure you can relocate that window in the HUD.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Dungeons are devolving into nothing but roll-need-on-everything grindfests. People are now rolling Need on absolutely everything.
Very frustrating to run multiple dungeons, see 7 pieces of epic CW gear drop, only to have them ALL go to my non CW "groupmates" and be sold off; or better yet - offered to ME as the only CW in the group at a "discounted" AD price.
I can't bring myself to roll Need on an item that is not usable by my class because I know I will be skewing over someone on my team who can in fact use it... But apparently I am the only one that feels this way in a PUG.
It's getting ridiculous. The only time I will run a dungeon now is with friends/guild, or during a DD event so that at least the chest will hopefully give me something I can use.
Any chance of a hotfix to this roll system? It should not be that hard to add an "EquipPossible" tag to loot that will grey out the Need button for everyone that can't equip said item.
You should not be able to roll Need on something if your class can't actually use it.
I agree 100% with you OP. It is one of the reasons I quit playing this game and giving my money to the company. Every other MMO that I have played was not like this. When I played WoW, the need option was greyed out for classes that could not use the item. In raids, the tokens that dropped from bosses for set gear were either distributed by raid leader or could only be need rolled by the classes it was for.
In star trek online, before the season 7 rep grindfest started, the only thing that was worth rolling need on was borg salvage items and everyone could use those so most likely everyone rolled need. In this game, people are need rolling on purpose because of the human greed factor, they can sell the stuff to someone else on the auction or offer me the **** thing for AD when I was in there running that place with them and EARNED IT!
Ill keep checking these forums and hope this gets changed, but knowing PWE, it wont.
Comments
EQ had plenty of these issues. People sitting in the same camp(especially in Sebillis) day after day claiming they should get that lamentation sword because they were the only warrior/melee in the group, then later you see them selling it in the EC tunnel. You group with friends or guild mates, else you'll always run into someone that will abuse any loot system. That's the chance you take in a PUG...people simply don't play the way you do or the way you expect them to.
Yay!!! Banzaaaiii!!!!
well arnt you just an unlucky clover. i did however say it was rare in the 9 years of playing had issues with them type of people maybe once / twice a month. unlike these days where the issue is once an hour at best... if your extreemly lucky.
Whoa, easy there. I never said I was happy with this situation. I would prefer it to be as you paint in your first paragraph too. But that is not how it works any more, and I'll be damned if I miss out on phat loot because I try to be nice, play by the 'gentlemanly' rules.
As soon as I see one person in a PUG need on an off-class item, I start needing on everything I would like to have. Off-class items, enchants, crafting mats, everything. And I'm obviously 100% okay if everyone else does the same.
Um, you can rebind them. I did to numpad 4, numpad 5, and shift-numpad 4 (mouse bindings for me).
I can't stress this enough. ROLL NEED on everything. Give items to those who need it if you have to. But please tell others in your group about this situation that you're doing this or else you will look like a loot ninja.
That`s the truth. I have been playing eq for years on and off since 02 and only ran into the problem once or twice. The rest of time spent ingame everyone was pretty respectful and generous when it came to loot. Hell make everything in neverwinter lore/no trade and this problem will disappear overnight. Then people will actually have to go out quest and do groups for items they want. Nobody will be rolling need on items they can`t use if it`s worthless and it can`t be traded.
My friends and I ran into this Idris with a TR who rolled Need on everything. Sadly, any MMO veteran is used to this now so we followed suit even on items for him. The team's other person called us on it and we explained that TR rolled Need on every single thing and that mollified him.
Like you, I still stick to old-school rule but throw it out the window without a second thought if other have already done so. I'll even PM others in the team to start rolling need so at least we all have an equal chance. I've already seen the usual stuff go on in PuGs and the AH with price-gouging and even items that you can buy for coppers/silver from a vendor being sold for astronomical amounts of AD in the hopes that you walk ignorantly into the con. It'll only get worse so just don't let your online "moral-code" get in your way once you see others who aren't bothering with it, folks.
I'm also guessing you missed the big letters CRYPTIC in the avatar also?
Play your alt? That's a novel idea, isn't it?
That is the thing. We have to ID the item (which is not normal for other MMO BUT it is common in D&D PnP version) so at this point, it is better to NEED all (unless you are with your friends who will follow the normal need-greed-pass method)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Unfortunately it takes 5 people to complete dungeons and EVERYONE is entitled to some loot. this is one of the reasons that gives PUG a bad name...
but after reading most of this posts, even some funny ones on game theory i'd really like to shed some basic math.
to everyone who wants rare items to be bop: think of how many items in other games you've vendored because they were bound on pick up and you didn't need them, apllying this system a group actually allways gets rewarded for running an instance, because there won't be any "worthless" drops anymore.
now lets go on to need or greed, as previously stated you could grey out the need button for classes who can't use that specific item, from the logical point of view that actually generates unfairness to, because if something for your class drops and you've allrady got something better, you can unfairly roll need.
from a psychological point of view i would still tend towards this kind of system as getting an item i need after a dungeoncrawl is a much better feeling than getting a worthless drop and then going to the AH and exchanging it for something i need.
Used to take 70 people to kill a dragon and only like 3-4 people got anything out of it. Everyone was entitled to something but if something they can`t use drops, why bother taking it from someone who can use it? Just do another run and hope your class gear drops this time and pray some other class don`t go rolling need on it.
I actually do believe everyone should get something from a run. But if my class loot don`t drop I`m SOL and I won`t roll need on other classes gear.
Actually this is why I and at least one other person have been advocating that you can only NEED items that you class can use but then it become irrevocably bound to character. So even if an item is for your class but if you want to sell it or pass it to an alt you will need to GREED it......
True. consider it would probably take much more coding for PWE to "fix" the issue (i.e. only class can roll need) it depends on players too much. personally I would say just randomly assign to loots to everyone. Why even rolling?
the reason is that since the item is BoE, there is no "loss" the group can just easily give to another guildy if they won or keep it for themselves.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
What do you do if an instance has no loot for your class? I don't mean that nothing drops on that run, I mean if there's no possibility of anything dropping for your class because there's nothing in the loot tables?
Maybe just play the game and have some fun?
That's fine for you. Do you think the majority of people think that way? Because if they did, this debate would never have occurred.
It would have been him if you never brought it up again, but now we can clearly see who it is.
You also make a cliche remark while going with the even bigger one? ROFLMAO.
And editing your post as well? Come on tryhard!
Also it's really annoying how the items take up practically your whole screen. Two items and you can't even see anything. Put them to the bottom or to the side.
Pretty sure you can relocate that window in the HUD.
I agree 100% with you OP. It is one of the reasons I quit playing this game and giving my money to the company. Every other MMO that I have played was not like this. When I played WoW, the need option was greyed out for classes that could not use the item. In raids, the tokens that dropped from bosses for set gear were either distributed by raid leader or could only be need rolled by the classes it was for.
In star trek online, before the season 7 rep grindfest started, the only thing that was worth rolling need on was borg salvage items and everyone could use those so most likely everyone rolled need. In this game, people are need rolling on purpose because of the human greed factor, they can sell the stuff to someone else on the auction or offer me the **** thing for AD when I was in there running that place with them and EARNED IT!
Ill keep checking these forums and hope this gets changed, but knowing PWE, it wont.