And what do you think the point if getting the diamonds are? Its not to swim around in like Scrooge MacDuck. Its to buy gear!
Isnt is better to be able to earn enough diamonds to buy the gear you want. In a reasonable number of runs. As opposed to a totally random system that might take dozens if not hundreds of runs. To drop the exact item you might want?
I really think your reasoning is kind of twisted. You won`t need diamonds if you run the dungeons and people don`t ninja your class gear. Buying gear off an auction gives no gratification or sense of accomplishment and I soon lose interest because the only thing left to do is stand in town looking awesome with not jack to do. It means more to me to go and put the time in and work for what I want I got no problem with that. I used a bronze breastplate and a fine steel longsword for close to a year, I got the patience to run them enough times to gear myself up. Don`t you feel that buy all your gear from others takes the whole point of playing an mmo away? To me it does.
To the "what do you do if the class isn't represented" posts, you'd all roll greed, may the best person win. The idea, as far as I could tell, was to remove Greed from the equation if you can't use the item due to class restrictions. So if, as happened to me the other day, my blue boots drop in the dungeon, after I've already bought them, I have the option to roll Greed, and let everyone else roll on them too. Would I do that? I did the other day, and would again.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Make everything lore/no trade and disable the auction house and you`ll get the nicest groups with the most respectful players you`ve ever gamed with from a pug.
No, you'd just have people doubly mad, as looters would still happily loot away for potion money.
I really think your reasoning is kind of twisted. You won`t need diamonds if you run the dungeons and people don`t ninja your class gear. Buying gear off an auction gives no gratification or sense of accomplishment and I soon lose interest because the only thing left to do is stand in town looking awesome with not jack to do.
Nope, you'd still be doing dungeons for the AD. Consider this - if Cryptic removed loot drops entirely, and converted everything to a crafting mats/AD/mark/seal/whatever system, would you stop running dungeons? No, you'd still grind away to get the goods. You'd have to, as much as you have to now.
The fact of buying your loot doesn't mean you didn't have to work for it. It just means the loot comes from a different source. That's it. It's the same game otherwise.
I respect the old mechanic of having to identify an items hidden abilities and its roots in D&D, but I think it is causing the issue around people continually needing gear. For my own part, I know I should need on all gear that I can equip, but I would like to be able to choose greed on items that while I can equip them, they are not an upgrade for me.
Not knowing what will be an upgrade until it can be identified, encourages people to need for fear of passing up potentially better gear.
To be honest, I was a little surprised that cryptic didnt make it that if you had a wizard in the group, they passively identify gear being rolled on with a spell.
I really think your reasoning is kind of twisted. You won`t need diamonds if you run the dungeons and people don`t ninja your class gear. Buying gear off an auction gives no gratification or sense of accomplishment and I soon lose interest because the only thing left to do is stand in town looking awesome with not jack to do. It means more to me to go and put the time in and work for what I want I got no problem with that. I used a bronze breastplate and a fine steel longsword for close to a year, I got the patience to run them enough times to gear myself up. Don`t you feel that buy all your gear from others takes the whole point of playing an mmo away? To me it does.
Twisted? Twisted to me is beating your head against the random number generator. The odds are not in your favor, at all.
Lets say you want a unique weapon for your rogue. Seems easy right? Well not only does the game have to drop a rogue item. It has to be a weapon. And then it has to be the type of weapon you want. And you need to be the only rogue in the group at the time. Id personally be far to depressed to bother to calculate the odds on that. And that is in a perfect group without any one being a mean ninja. Its not an accomplishment. its spending 20 minutes or more pulling a very slow slot machine lever and hoping your numbers come up.
An accomplishment to me, is earning a little something on every run and watching it add up. A measurable goal being earned and reached. Ill take that any day over playing a slot machine, or opening lock boxes via boss death. Pure random.
I find it funny how folks insist random is fine for loot. but would scream bloody murder if XP worked the same way. Sorry, on that boss the cleric got XP...maybe youll get XP on the next one.
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sephereMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm am so so sick of going into a dungeon that's long and difficult, killing the boss and his adds;
and have the boss loot that drops be for your class (and no other of your class is in the party), and press NEED, because it's your class;
only to be ninjaed by everyone,
because everyone and their mother rolls NEED, for some idiotic reason.
***
LISTEN, people,
if you have loot pop up into the screen and it's RED, and says 'it's not for your class',
then that's means IT'S NOT FOR YOUR CLASS, and you should be rolling PASS.
***
________
DEVS please make it impossible to even roll on things that are not for your class,
it makes no sense at all,
and makes you feel like the dungeon you ran, was completely pointless and a complete waste of 45 minutes,
when everyone rolls 'need' on it.
Twisted? Twisted to me is beating your head against the random number generator. The odds are not in your favor, at all.
Lets say you want a unique weapon for your rogue. Seems easy right? Well not only does the game have to drop a rogue item. It has to be a weapon. And then it has to be the type of weapon you want. And you need to be the only rogue in the group at the time. Id personally be far to depressed to bother to calculate the odds on that. And that is in a perfect group without any one being a mean ninja. Its not an accomplishment. its spending 20 minutes or more pulling a very slow slot machine lever and hoping your numbers come up.
An accomplishment to me, is earning a little something on every run and watching it add up. A measurable goal being earned and reached. Ill take that any day over playing a slot machine, or opening lock boxes via boss death. Pure random.
I find it funny how folks insist random is fine for loot. but would scream bloody murder if XP worked the same way. Sorry, on that boss the cleric got XP...maybe youll get XP on the next one.
Have you ever heard a criminal try to justify their actions, just speak out loud. "Screw you, I gottsta gets mines." Would stealing lots of shoes in a hurricane make you feel like things are adding up?
I would suggest getting rid of the Need/Greed/Pass system and go with a Claim/Pass system. If you claim the item, then you are in the roll for it. If it is an item that your class uses, you get a +1 or +2 to the roll. It would kinda fall in line with the die roll of D&D.
Then instead of one epic item per boss that possibly enters the economy, there would be five.
So? Everyone in the party should get loot as they helped kill the boss. More items entering the "economy" is a good thing for players as it drives price down.
Then instead of one epic item per boss that possibly enters the economy, there would be five.
Not if there were only 1/5th the chance for each drop.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
In my own personal experience, the key binds for need/greed/pass are very unwieldy. If they won't discard the loot system in favor of something else, I hope they will at least allow us to rebind those keys to something we can get to more easily.
Huh? You CAN rebind those keys, you just need to, you know, open your settings and look. I've had mine set to my liking since day one.
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samuraikingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Sorry if someone already suggested these, but I am not going to read all 11 pages.
Identifying items needs to stop. The only thing that uses them are ARPGs and they are getting stale in those games, even. It takes up bag space and is a waste of TIME mostly. I get that you want to sell bag space in the cash shop, that **** is hella scummy, but the fact is if someone is willing to spend money on bag space they will, that one slot for level 60 scrolls won't affect their overall decision. And people that don't want to give you money will just go to a vendor every 10 mins or stop needing on greens. There is no point in needing on greens past 60 as gold is literally useless in this game past 20. We have plenty of space for the things we NEED so it's not going to affect the bag space sells. All the Identifying function does is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> us off.
At the LEAST, items need to be greed-only unless you can equip it. Period. I am pretty sure they are already working on this, but why not go the extra step and make it actually good, not just tolerable? All need rolls should be bound and those items should not sell for more than a few silver to a vendor. This is the only way to stop needless money-grubbing by players. Everyone that doesn't want it for equipment purposes will roll greed trying to get it to sell, allowing the person that actually needs it as an upgrade to get it for that purpose.
While off-topic, but related, the queue systems are also messed up. You can kick but not replace people with a new person from the queue, and someone always disconnects or leaves. This needs to be fixed. Immediately. You also can not gather at the group if you disconnect in the loading screen before you arrive at the dungeon.
Foundry Name: "Wolframs Last Stand" (@Holythirst)
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Umm....the N/G/P loot system is the default setting. There are others. Party lead has the ability to change loot settings before the run even starts. If it upsets you so much....CHANGE THE DEFAULT SETTING. JEBUS. Quitcher*****en.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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budgiewudgieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 26Arc User
edited May 2013
You can't blame them. Although I'm one of the people who click pass if it's not usable of my class. I don't react negatively when they got item that I need. Sometimes I just ask them very nicely if I could have it.... and like a lot of them giving it to me ...
No, you'd just have people doubly mad, as looters would still happily loot away for potion money..
Lore/notrade means the you can only possess one of an item So if you already have one on you or in your bank you can`t loot another and it cannot be sold and is worthless. The only way to get rid of it is to destroy it. This fixes the problem of people rolling need on something they can`t use because if it is worthless and can`t make anything off it, then then will play nice and pass so the required class can have it.
Twisted? Twisted to me is beating your head against the random number generator. The odds are not in your favor, at all.
Lets say you want a unique weapon for your rogue. Seems easy right? Well not only does the game have to drop a rogue item. It has to be a weapon. And then it has to be the type of weapon you want. And you need to be the only rogue in the group at the time. Id personally be far to depressed to bother to calculate the odds on that. And that is in a perfect group without any one being a mean ninja. Its not an accomplishment. its spending 20 minutes or more pulling a very slow slot machine lever and hoping your numbers come up.
An accomplishment to me, is earning a little something on every run and watching it add up. A measurable goal being earned and reached. Ill take that any day over playing a slot machine, or opening lock boxes via boss death. Pure random.
I find it funny how folks insist random is fine for loot. but would scream bloody murder if XP worked the same way. Sorry, on that boss the cleric got XP...maybe youll get XP on the next one.
I`ve played mmo`s for 12 years and geared up many different ways. Using an auction house to buy your items is the most shallow route to go. What good is an mmo where I can get the best endgame gear from buying it from someone else. Tbis is where you are I are different. I am perfectly fine with not getting all my gear at once and overnight, whereas you seem to lack the patience and want the instant gratification and get your shinys as fast as possible. What is the rush? You know there isn`t anything to do once you get all the stuff except standing around wishing there was more content.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
I`ve played mmo`s for 12 years and geared up many different ways. Using an auction house to buy your items is the most shallow route to go. What good is an mmo where I can get the best endgame gear from buying it from someone else. Tbis is where you are I are different. I am perfectly fine with not getting all my gear at once and overnight, whereas you seem to lack the patience and want the instant gratification and get your shinys as fast as possible. What is the rush? You know there isn`t anything to do once you get all the stuff except standing around wishing there was more content.
success in t2 is at best elusive at worst a pipe dream for most puggers in this game. the auction house will be the only way to get decent gear for them beyond unicorn seal or pvp.
success in t2 is at best elusive at worst a pipe dream for most puggers in this game. the auction house will be the only way to get decent gear for them beyond unicorn seal or pvp.
I have run 3/4 of the dungeons the game has with only pugs. The t2 runs can be done. People just need to learn the fights and when everyone knows what they have to do, it becomes a lot easier then the usual zerg,zerg, zerg, you see now for the most part. If you know something about a boss when you join a group, speak up. Some of the groupmates might not know the instance yet and your advice can mean the difference between victory or a wipe. Everyone can be successful in this game with enough practice and knowledge.
I would suggest getting rid of the Need/Greed/Pass system and go with a Claim/Pass system. If you claim the item, then you are in the roll for it. If it is an item that your class uses, you get a +1 or +2 to the roll. It would kinda fall in line with the die roll of D&D.
The need/greed/pass system is a good system as long as the need option is unavailable on blue and purple class items unless the class that can use it selects greed. For some reason a lot of people who can`t use certain loot really think they have a right to roll need on it because they don`t wanna walk away from a run with nothing. And people call me greedy for wanting the items that were designed for my class!
The devs should have forseen this and fixed it before the game went live. But I also believe that they probably thought that good faith and sportsmanship would make this not even an issue. But it is ,and it truly shows who would stab who in the back if it got them one more step forward in life. So We need a better way to police ourselves because we are unable to do it on our own.
There seriously needs to be better loot in this game, and it needs to be instanced. That way, bosses are more worth the time and you get rid of the loot ninjas in one fell swoop. Everybody has fun, prices in the AD marketplace drop to a decent level for people who got items that they can't use.
The current loot system is very outdated, and there's very little need to have it any longer. In a god group, everyone is doing their fair share, and it isn't good game to design to say, "nope. Only one of you is being rewarded because... well we feel like it." There's very little reason whatsoever to not have instanced loot.
Of course, with the way they have coded the game, instanced loot might be impossible. But at the very least, bosses should be dropped more stuff.
I agree, however, that something needs to be done about the loot system. Currently, it's frustrating. Personally, I get more out of a dungeon than loot, but loot is nice. And when you spend 30 minutes on a boss and only one blue and a pittance of gold drops? That's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The need/greed/pass system is a good system as long as the need option is unavailable on blue and purple class items unless the class that can use it selects greed. For some reason a lot of people who can`t use certain loot really think they have a right to roll need on it because they don`t wanna walk away from a run with nothing. And people call me greedy for wanting the items that were designed for my class!
The devs should have forseen this and fixed it before the game went live. But I also believe that they probably thought that good faith and sportsmanship would make this not even an issue. But it is ,and it truly shows who would stab who in the back if it got them one more step forward in life. So We need a better way to police ourselves because we are unable to do it on our own.
HA!
It's true in nearly EVERY OTHER MMORPGS I've played; people will always pick either greed or pass unless the gear in question is for their specific class. Sometimes, if there's more than one person who can use it they'll ask: "Is it okay if I need this?"
But it seems a lot of the community missed the class on this BASIC ****ING THING!
So we've got people needing on everything. And then flimsy justifications on why you should need on everything. And then there's the people who need on loot so that other people can't get anything (either because they're greedy or because they're taking their anger at the playerbase's greet out on a completely different party).
Thinking on it now. It's a vicious cycle.
You go into a group skirmish or a dungeon. You see someone needing on everything. Eventually you get pissed so you start needing on everything to prevent the ninja looter you think is in your group. Not realizing that you, yourself has become the ninja looter in the eyes of your party.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
I think the reason we've got such a problem can be traced to Astral Diamonds.
The auction house doesn't use gold to buy things, you use astral diamonds. Not to mention gear is not bound to you when you need on something. It looks like good sportsmanship and not being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is only true until someone introduces real money into the mix.
Someone really should've seen this coming.
I'm in full support of locking the need option on items that your class can't use. I really shouldn't have to say that.
HA!
It's true in nearly EVERY OTHER MMORPGS I've played; people will always pick either greed or pass unless the gear in question is for their specific class. Sometimes, if there's more than one person who can use it they'll ask: "Is it okay if I need this?"
But it seems a lot of the community missed the class on this BASIC ****ING THING!
So we've got people needing on everything. And then flimsy justifications on why you should need on everything. And then there's the people who need on loot so that other people can't get anything (either because they're greedy or because they're taking their anger at the playerbase's greet out on a completely different party).
Thinking on it now. It's a vicious cycle.
You go into a group skirmish or a dungeon. You see someone needing on everything. Eventually you get pissed so you start needing on everything to prevent the ninja looter you think is in your group. Not realizing that you, yourself has become the ninja looter in the eyes of your party.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
I think the reason we've got such a problem can be traced to Astral Diamonds.
The auction house doesn't use gold to buy things, you use astral diamonds. Not to mention gear is not bound to you when you need on something. It looks like good sportsmanship and not being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is only true until someone introduces real money into the mix.
Someone really should've seen this coming.
I'm in full support of locking the need option on items that your class can't use. I really shouldn't have to say that.
If I see someone doing this, and I'm party leader, I just kick them from the group.
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okottekonekoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
i feel ya same issues when i ran a dungeon i was only CW and the final item was a CW only it went do a GWF instead because he rolled need, also peeps the easiest way isnt just to find on pickup its you cannot need on a item your class cannot use, a need on it should be converted to a greed.
Then run the content, I don't enjoy spending my time so you can gear an alt. If it's a guild run, then the rules are different before we even start, but a PUG, bring you alt along then.
Lore/notrade means the you can only possess one of an item So if you already have one on you or in your bank you can`t loot another and it cannot be sold and is worthless. The only way to get rid of it is to destroy it. This fixes the problem of people rolling need on something they can`t use because if it is worthless and can`t make anything off it, then then will play nice and pass so the required class can have it.
How often do you actually get two of the same item, compared to the total items that drop? I'm finding it fairly low, so I don't see how that's a fix at all. No matter how often someone rolls Need, there will always be something else to roll Need on. It'll get even worse as Cryptic introduces more classes.
Unless you're talking about end-game, in which case I can only shrug my shoulders, as end-game isn't something I care about. Developers are just stringing you on at that point, but I'm getting off-topic.
It's true in nearly EVERY OTHER MMORPGS I've played; people will always pick either greed or pass unless the gear in question is for their specific class. Sometimes, if there's more than one person who can use it they'll ask: "Is it okay if I need this?"
But it seems a lot of the community missed the class on this BASIC ****ING THING!
I guess you must have missed all the threads in all the forums for all those other MMOs where people complain about loot ninjas, then. In my experience, there is almost always at least one other person rolling Need on something I could have used - not always the same person within a given group, but very often of a class that couldn't actually use the item. End result being that I gave up on getting loot from dungeons; if I ran them, it was for the fun of it (but even that's been killed by the systematic anonymizing of "grouping," but that's a rant for another thread).
So, yeah, for many people, the options come down to Passing on everything (cuz you're not gonna get anything anyway), or Needing everything if you want to get something. It is the nature of the system we're given that forces players to either turn on each other, or drop out of the ratrace.
So we've got people needing on everything. And then flimsy justifications on why you should need on everything.
It's math plus human nature. It's not a justification, and it's definitely not flimsy. It's what happens, and it's what you need to do to have a reasonable chance to get something for your efforts.
In fact, I'd suggest that trying to maintain the etiquette of "greed before need" does far more to cause drama, anger, and frustration than people rolling need; said etiquette flies directly in the face of the reality of the system, and only sets people up for disappointment.
I'm in full support of locking the need option on items that your class can't use. I really shouldn't have to say that.
And I'm in full support of independent loot rolls, perhaps tweaked for your class, rather than piling on "fixes" to a system that is fundamentally unfair.
Comments
I really think your reasoning is kind of twisted. You won`t need diamonds if you run the dungeons and people don`t ninja your class gear. Buying gear off an auction gives no gratification or sense of accomplishment and I soon lose interest because the only thing left to do is stand in town looking awesome with not jack to do. It means more to me to go and put the time in and work for what I want I got no problem with that. I used a bronze breastplate and a fine steel longsword for close to a year, I got the patience to run them enough times to gear myself up. Don`t you feel that buy all your gear from others takes the whole point of playing an mmo away? To me it does.
Nope, you'd still be doing dungeons for the AD. Consider this - if Cryptic removed loot drops entirely, and converted everything to a crafting mats/AD/mark/seal/whatever system, would you stop running dungeons? No, you'd still grind away to get the goods. You'd have to, as much as you have to now.
The fact of buying your loot doesn't mean you didn't have to work for it. It just means the loot comes from a different source. That's it. It's the same game otherwise.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
Not knowing what will be an upgrade until it can be identified, encourages people to need for fear of passing up potentially better gear.
To be honest, I was a little surprised that cryptic didnt make it that if you had a wizard in the group, they passively identify gear being rolled on with a spell.
Twisted? Twisted to me is beating your head against the random number generator. The odds are not in your favor, at all.
Lets say you want a unique weapon for your rogue. Seems easy right? Well not only does the game have to drop a rogue item. It has to be a weapon. And then it has to be the type of weapon you want. And you need to be the only rogue in the group at the time. Id personally be far to depressed to bother to calculate the odds on that. And that is in a perfect group without any one being a mean ninja. Its not an accomplishment. its spending 20 minutes or more pulling a very slow slot machine lever and hoping your numbers come up.
An accomplishment to me, is earning a little something on every run and watching it add up. A measurable goal being earned and reached. Ill take that any day over playing a slot machine, or opening lock boxes via boss death. Pure random.
I find it funny how folks insist random is fine for loot. but would scream bloody murder if XP worked the same way. Sorry, on that boss the cleric got XP...maybe youll get XP on the next one.
and have the boss loot that drops be for your class (and no other of your class is in the party), and press NEED, because it's your class;
only to be ninjaed by everyone,
because everyone and their mother rolls NEED, for some idiotic reason.
***
LISTEN, people,
if you have loot pop up into the screen and it's RED, and says 'it's not for your class',
then that's means IT'S NOT FOR YOUR CLASS, and you should be rolling PASS.
***
________
DEVS please make it impossible to even roll on things that are not for your class,
it makes no sense at all,
and makes you feel like the dungeon you ran, was completely pointless and a complete waste of 45 minutes,
when everyone rolls 'need' on it.
Then instead of one epic item per boss that possibly enters the economy, there would be five.
Have you ever heard a criminal try to justify their actions, just speak out loud. "Screw you, I gottsta gets mines." Would stealing lots of shoes in a hurricane make you feel like things are adding up?
So? Everyone in the party should get loot as they helped kill the boss. More items entering the "economy" is a good thing for players as it drives price down.
Not if there were only 1/5th the chance for each drop.
Huh? You CAN rebind those keys, you just need to, you know, open your settings and look. I've had mine set to my liking since day one.
Identifying items needs to stop. The only thing that uses them are ARPGs and they are getting stale in those games, even. It takes up bag space and is a waste of TIME mostly. I get that you want to sell bag space in the cash shop, that **** is hella scummy, but the fact is if someone is willing to spend money on bag space they will, that one slot for level 60 scrolls won't affect their overall decision. And people that don't want to give you money will just go to a vendor every 10 mins or stop needing on greens. There is no point in needing on greens past 60 as gold is literally useless in this game past 20. We have plenty of space for the things we NEED so it's not going to affect the bag space sells. All the Identifying function does is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> us off.
At the LEAST, items need to be greed-only unless you can equip it. Period. I am pretty sure they are already working on this, but why not go the extra step and make it actually good, not just tolerable? All need rolls should be bound and those items should not sell for more than a few silver to a vendor. This is the only way to stop needless money-grubbing by players. Everyone that doesn't want it for equipment purposes will roll greed trying to get it to sell, allowing the person that actually needs it as an upgrade to get it for that purpose.
While off-topic, but related, the queue systems are also messed up. You can kick but not replace people with a new person from the queue, and someone always disconnects or leaves. This needs to be fixed. Immediately. You also can not gather at the group if you disconnect in the loading screen before you arrive at the dungeon.
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA
very cool!
k thanks bye
What then? I can effectively equip icons for full benefit. Shouldn't I be able to roll need on one?
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Lore/notrade means the you can only possess one of an item So if you already have one on you or in your bank you can`t loot another and it cannot be sold and is worthless. The only way to get rid of it is to destroy it. This fixes the problem of people rolling need on something they can`t use because if it is worthless and can`t make anything off it, then then will play nice and pass so the required class can have it.
I`ve played mmo`s for 12 years and geared up many different ways. Using an auction house to buy your items is the most shallow route to go. What good is an mmo where I can get the best endgame gear from buying it from someone else. Tbis is where you are I are different. I am perfectly fine with not getting all my gear at once and overnight, whereas you seem to lack the patience and want the instant gratification and get your shinys as fast as possible. What is the rush? You know there isn`t anything to do once you get all the stuff except standing around wishing there was more content.
success in t2 is at best elusive at worst a pipe dream for most puggers in this game. the auction house will be the only way to get decent gear for them beyond unicorn seal or pvp.
I have run 3/4 of the dungeons the game has with only pugs. The t2 runs can be done. People just need to learn the fights and when everyone knows what they have to do, it becomes a lot easier then the usual zerg,zerg, zerg, you see now for the most part. If you know something about a boss when you join a group, speak up. Some of the groupmates might not know the instance yet and your advice can mean the difference between victory or a wipe. Everyone can be successful in this game with enough practice and knowledge.
The need/greed/pass system is a good system as long as the need option is unavailable on blue and purple class items unless the class that can use it selects greed. For some reason a lot of people who can`t use certain loot really think they have a right to roll need on it because they don`t wanna walk away from a run with nothing. And people call me greedy for wanting the items that were designed for my class!
The devs should have forseen this and fixed it before the game went live. But I also believe that they probably thought that good faith and sportsmanship would make this not even an issue. But it is ,and it truly shows who would stab who in the back if it got them one more step forward in life. So We need a better way to police ourselves because we are unable to do it on our own.
The current loot system is very outdated, and there's very little need to have it any longer. In a god group, everyone is doing their fair share, and it isn't good game to design to say, "nope. Only one of you is being rewarded because... well we feel like it." There's very little reason whatsoever to not have instanced loot.
Of course, with the way they have coded the game, instanced loot might be impossible. But at the very least, bosses should be dropped more stuff.
I agree, however, that something needs to be done about the loot system. Currently, it's frustrating. Personally, I get more out of a dungeon than loot, but loot is nice. And when you spend 30 minutes on a boss and only one blue and a pittance of gold drops? That's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
HA!
It's true in nearly EVERY OTHER MMORPGS I've played; people will always pick either greed or pass unless the gear in question is for their specific class. Sometimes, if there's more than one person who can use it they'll ask: "Is it okay if I need this?"
But it seems a lot of the community missed the class on this BASIC ****ING THING!
So we've got people needing on everything. And then flimsy justifications on why you should need on everything. And then there's the people who need on loot so that other people can't get anything (either because they're greedy or because they're taking their anger at the playerbase's greet out on a completely different party).
Thinking on it now. It's a vicious cycle.
You go into a group skirmish or a dungeon. You see someone needing on everything. Eventually you get pissed so you start needing on everything to prevent the ninja looter you think is in your group. Not realizing that you, yourself has become the ninja looter in the eyes of your party.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
I think the reason we've got such a problem can be traced to Astral Diamonds.
The auction house doesn't use gold to buy things, you use astral diamonds. Not to mention gear is not bound to you when you need on something. It looks like good sportsmanship and not being a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is only true until someone introduces real money into the mix.
Someone really should've seen this coming.
I'm in full support of locking the need option on items that your class can't use. I really shouldn't have to say that.
If I see someone doing this, and I'm party leader, I just kick them from the group.
aholes who need on items they cannot use are skum
Then run the content, I don't enjoy spending my time so you can gear an alt. If it's a guild run, then the rules are different before we even start, but a PUG, bring you alt along then.
Unless you're talking about end-game, in which case I can only shrug my shoulders, as end-game isn't something I care about. Developers are just stringing you on at that point, but I'm getting off-topic.
I guess you must have missed all the threads in all the forums for all those other MMOs where people complain about loot ninjas, then. In my experience, there is almost always at least one other person rolling Need on something I could have used - not always the same person within a given group, but very often of a class that couldn't actually use the item. End result being that I gave up on getting loot from dungeons; if I ran them, it was for the fun of it (but even that's been killed by the systematic anonymizing of "grouping," but that's a rant for another thread).
So, yeah, for many people, the options come down to Passing on everything (cuz you're not gonna get anything anyway), or Needing everything if you want to get something. It is the nature of the system we're given that forces players to either turn on each other, or drop out of the ratrace.
It's math plus human nature. It's not a justification, and it's definitely not flimsy. It's what happens, and it's what you need to do to have a reasonable chance to get something for your efforts.
In fact, I'd suggest that trying to maintain the etiquette of "greed before need" does far more to cause drama, anger, and frustration than people rolling need; said etiquette flies directly in the face of the reality of the system, and only sets people up for disappointment.
And I'm in full support of independent loot rolls, perhaps tweaked for your class, rather than piling on "fixes" to a system that is fundamentally unfair.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos