I never abused the system, but I liked when running Foundry missions actually gave me loot and XP. Now I completely avoid it, even when it involves the AD daily.
Cryptic here is a fix for you: If a mob can't attack you for more than a few seconds, it either becomes invulnerable OR teleports your character next to itself.
Now please un nerf the drops. Seriously, I haven't gotten a SINGLE ID scroll since you "fixed" the Foundry exploit.
Incorrect, sir. The Foundry is used as an alternative leveling lane for alts, or at least it COULD have been before Cryptic 'fixed' it.
I did one 15-20 minute mission yesterday. Got half a bar of XP.
I'm not sure how this makes me unable to level.
(I'm reminded of the Skyrim forums, after Bethesda tweaked the way Smithing leveled, so that more valuable items gave you more skill progression than cheap ones - unlike the previous way, where everything gave the same progress. Forums were full of idiots saying "But I can't just make 40 million Iron Daggers to level anymore! They nerfed/ruined Smithing so hard!" Even though the skill worked just fine still. But you couldn't get them to not keep repeating their "It's ruined!" mantra.)
I never abused the system, but I liked when running Foundry missions actually gave me loot and XP. Now I completely avoid it, even when it involves the AD daily.
Cryptic here is a fix for you: If a mob can't attack you for more than a few seconds, it either becomes invulnerable OR teleports your character next to itself.
Now please un nerf the drops. Seriously, I haven't gotten a SINGLE ID scroll since you "fixed" the Foundry exploit.
I root a mob. It becomes unable to attack me for a few seconds. BAM! I'm teleported next to him. Or he becomes invulnerable, so I have to wait for the root to wear off and for him to close to melee range before I can damage him again.
Now please un nerf the drops. Seriously, I haven't gotten a SINGLE ID scroll since you "fixed" the Foundry exploit.
Stop playing the exploit missions. They're all broken now, ON PURPOSE. Play real ones, or you'll keep getting bupkiss for drops.
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cloudspiderMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It has been statistically shown that IT specialists have a significantly lower (p>0.005) levels of soft skills such as leadership and interpersonal skills. (McGowan 2005)
The research supports the situation which exists at the moment. The situation being a heated discussion about the changes to the foundry where one side vehemently believes that its unfair for others to benefit while others play the game their own way and the other communicating the fact that a freedom of choice which allows them to play their own way was taken away. There is fortunately a place where both sides do hold common ground and that is on the topic of true exploits. True exploits involve resetting mobs and using invulnerability to increase the efficiency of leveling
If I may be so bold as to suggest a course of action in retrospect.
Open the issue to community discussion prior to deciding upon a course of action.
There are possibly thousands of people who could have contributed ideas and solutions to this problem. It is becoming increasingly clear that the developers made a decision without taking the steps to being properly informed and this is causing the uproar in the community. The solution which is clearly inferable from the 13 pages of data:
Remove the true exploits; mob resetting and invulnerability Undo the exp and item drop reduction
These solutions would provide a compromise and bring an end to this debate. why?
1. Removing the mob resetting and invulnerability are the true exploits that are considered wrong by both parties irregardless of the foundry environment where it happened to be used.
2. Returning the exp and drop rates to normal would return the perceived violation of the freedom to chose. I would like to be clear about this... There never was and still is not any other issue apart from an individuals right to chose how they play the game be it quest and immerse themselves in the story or reach end game content faster by making custom foundry maps.
3. I hypothesize that a persons in game level does not negatively and may even positively correlate with increases of ZEN purchases. In the worst case scenario applying the suggested changes will NOT alter the cash flow.
These three points discuss the conclusion that the true exploits need to be removed but the experience and loot should be returned to the state they were before.
I can sympathize with the OP's post. I have a 55 rogue, i'venot really been rushing just been taking my time and seeing the sites, doing a mix of everything under the sun while playing. I dont really care that much about endgame, or being super rich with AD's or anything, I'm just enjoying the game with a couple select choice of friends.
niow, when those maps FIRST hit, I was tempted to try them, but i didnt, cause i was just enjoying what i was doing a little more at the time. To me, the foundary missions were just an amazing break from the monotanty of the MMO grind. I would pick a mission that had an intriguing story line and it would be great cause we'd get excellent exp and have fun with the story while doing it. Now, because of people wantint to rush into endgame in order to be first and top on the socities power chain. They've exploited the foundary and now it's hit with a massive EXP nerf. Which of course destroys the foundry as a viable leveling option. Sure, we can -still- do the foundary for fun. But the lure of the foundry was that it had great EXP along with the inciting player driven content.
That's what we're upset about really, Not that we didnt get in on the exploiting. That we had one of our activities shaved down because people abused the system and ****ed it up for the rest of us who used it like it should be used.
Any word on when they're going to fix this? It's pretty absurd. Foundry gives almost zero loot at all now. Hell, I don't even care about the XP nerf as much, but the loot nerf is completely ridiculous.
A single mob 10 levels lower in the open zones gives me better loot than 3-4+ encounters at level 20 in a Foundry mission.
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misspaigeyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Any word on when they're going to fix this? It's pretty absurd. Foundry gives almost zero loot at all now. Hell, I don't even care about the XP nerf as much, but the loot nerf is completely ridiculous.
A single mob 10 levels lower in the open zones gives me better loot than 3-4+ encounters at level 20 in a Foundry mission.
I haven't heard of anything, I wish we could get a GM post in here acknowledging our suggestions at the very least, this is obviously a very popular subject.
Stop playing your way. Cryptic broke them now, ON PURPOSE. Play our way, or you'll keep getting bupkiss for drops.
There. Fixed for truth.
Edit: I realize and agree with the fixing of exploitation of the risk-vs-reward ratio, but I do not agree with the methods and principals being shown by Cryptic at the moment.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
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oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm kind of indifferent to the whole thing.
On one hand, I give zero care whatsoever to how another player reaches level 60. Why should I? Does them being max level somehow impact my game? Er.....no, it doesn't. It doesn't affect any of you. Why some of you think these people should be punished is beyond me. Who cares what they did?
By the same token, why does cryptic care so much if people "exploit" the foundry? It's a PvE mechanic. PvErs aren't impacted by other PvErs (aside from needing to be of like level to complete content of course). I understand bug fixes but loot and XP nerfs baffle me.
But then I also understand the point that the Foundry is and always has been the focus of player generated CONTENT, not LOOT. Mobs in both the Foundry and questing have NEVER been the main source of XP so much as it has been the source of that little bit to push you over and ding.
The bulk of experience has always come from completing quests and so far, I have not noticed a difference in XP reward from foundry quests. I don't care about loot since it's random anyway.
So basically this so called "nerf" doesn't really matter to me and instead it appears more like people people are ticked off that XP gleaned from mobs in the Foundry is no longer a large amount is now equal to that found in the open world.
As I said, XP comes from the quests and as far as I can tell, Foundry or open world, that has not changed at all.
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I was level 60 before the end of the headstart and I did not use any exploits. I quested through each zone. Even with the foundry farming, most of those people who did that would be a max level now.
I was level 60 before the end of the headstart and I did not use any exploits. I quested through each zone. Even with the foundry farming, most of those people who did that would be a max level now.
Yeah, questing is pretty quick. But Foundry was just another option to leveling, that if they had reviewed the maps that came out and blocked the 50 Ogres trapped inside a small wall, we wouldn't be where we're at now. It punished everybody except the exploiters since nobody got banned for it.
So basically this so called "nerf" doesn't really matter to me and instead it appears more like people are ticked off that XP gleaned from mobs in the Foundry is no longer a large amount is now equal to that found in the open world.
As I said, XP comes from the quests and as far as I can tell, Foundry or open world, that has not changed at all.
Highlighted part is untrue. Foundry xp is now much less than what is found in Cryptic content....IF you kill fast. Take your time killing, and yes, xp is normal as are drops. But, show efficiency in tactics or build skill and you're punished. That's wrong.
- Gold to fund potion/kit use. Foundry is inefficient and you don't need much gold.
- Astral Diamonds. Daily is a terrible way to get AD. Selling drops (spare purples, blues, shards, and runes) is more efficient. Foundry Daily will also be done as fast as possible to get it over with, most likely the same mission 4 times.
- Runes and Enchantments. Foundry is inefficient because of loot nerfs. Faster to go farm Whispering Caverns.
- Crafting Materials. Not found in the foundry.
- XP for a new pet. Speed running the fastest eligible mission you can find in the Foundry is actually fairly efficient. However, it means avoiding ALL combat and dialogue possible.
If your goal is to improve your character the foundry is almost 100% a waste of time. I don't think this is what Cryptic had in mind, but in their attempt to prevent exploiting they've gone too far and made it useless.
Filling 2 bars in 2 minutes turns xp and drops off for 4 minutes.... what kind of fix is that
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voqarMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
IMO, they should've had a real open beta. Not a release they called open beta. The cash shop is open and charging and there will be no character reset, so the game is live as far as reality is concerned and "open beta" is just a meaningless term applied to this game.
What they SHOULD have done, IMO, is something similar to what ANet did with GW2. Actually have an open beta with the cash shop running such that you could buy from the shop during beta, and when the game release anything you spent during beta was reset for you to use at release. This let the shop be tested and encouraged people to use the shop in beta.
It also means that if utterly gross exploits pop up during open beta that you can wipe characters after fixing the exploit without it being a big deal.
By not having a character wipe and still claiming to be in beta, they can let punks get away with gross exploitation and have a tainted game. Complain all you want but unless you stop playing due to the expoiting, it's pointless.
Who knows, since there's a cash shop involved and exploiters were allowed to get away with cheating, maybe someone will sue. Blizzard is apparently getting sued over not rolling back after a big gold exploit recently. It could set a precedent to get these useless and lazy developers and gaming companies doing something about exploits and cheaters instead of letting it slide.
Who knows, since there's a cash shop involved and exploiters were allowed to get away with cheating, maybe someone will sue. Blizzard is apparently getting sued over not rolling back after a big gold exploit recently. It could set a precedent to get these useless and lazy developers and gaming companies doing something about exploits and cheaters instead of letting it slide.
Really tried, really really tried to make sense of the point you were making in relation to the actual conversation but I couldn't.
The only reason you should be running foundry missions is to have fun. If your running them for uber experience then your just attempting to exploit the game.
no doubt your already 60 and have multiple alts on level 60 fully geared so now your on your high horse, i for one am pissed off that i joined the game after everybody already exploited there way to 60 and i have to level completely legit yet this **** company is that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they dont know they have let in a game breaking glitch and need to wipe servers.
full wipe on 20th is the only answer or put foundry back to how it was.
I think the rewards should be bumped at least a little, to compensate for things like the lack of treasure chests and nodes.
I know that after running Foundry almost constantly for days, going and running a regular mission... holy smoke, I felt like loot was just RAINING down -- nodes, chests galore. And if I wanted to, I could 'game' it and keep leaving and coming back. (I don't want to, just to be clear...)
Foundry should never be the best way to get loot, because it's hard enough shaking exploiters as it is, but the gap is a bit extreme right now.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Comments
Cryptic here is a fix for you: If a mob can't attack you for more than a few seconds, it either becomes invulnerable OR teleports your character next to itself.
Now please un nerf the drops. Seriously, I haven't gotten a SINGLE ID scroll since you "fixed" the Foundry exploit.
I did one 15-20 minute mission yesterday. Got half a bar of XP.
I'm not sure how this makes me unable to level.
(I'm reminded of the Skyrim forums, after Bethesda tweaked the way Smithing leveled, so that more valuable items gave you more skill progression than cheap ones - unlike the previous way, where everything gave the same progress. Forums were full of idiots saying "But I can't just make 40 million Iron Daggers to level anymore! They nerfed/ruined Smithing so hard!" Even though the skill worked just fine still. But you couldn't get them to not keep repeating their "It's ruined!" mantra.)
I root a mob. It becomes unable to attack me for a few seconds. BAM! I'm teleported next to him. Or he becomes invulnerable, so I have to wait for the root to wear off and for him to close to melee range before I can damage him again.
No.
Stop playing the exploit missions. They're all broken now, ON PURPOSE. Play real ones, or you'll keep getting bupkiss for drops.
The research supports the situation which exists at the moment. The situation being a heated discussion about the changes to the foundry where one side vehemently believes that its unfair for others to benefit while others play the game their own way and the other communicating the fact that a freedom of choice which allows them to play their own way was taken away. There is fortunately a place where both sides do hold common ground and that is on the topic of true exploits. True exploits involve resetting mobs and using invulnerability to increase the efficiency of leveling
If I may be so bold as to suggest a course of action in retrospect.
Open the issue to community discussion prior to deciding upon a course of action.
There are possibly thousands of people who could have contributed ideas and solutions to this problem. It is becoming increasingly clear that the developers made a decision without taking the steps to being properly informed and this is causing the uproar in the community. The solution which is clearly inferable from the 13 pages of data:
Remove the true exploits; mob resetting and invulnerability
Undo the exp and item drop reduction
These solutions would provide a compromise and bring an end to this debate. why?
1. Removing the mob resetting and invulnerability are the true exploits that are considered wrong by both parties irregardless of the foundry environment where it happened to be used.
2. Returning the exp and drop rates to normal would return the perceived violation of the freedom to chose. I would like to be clear about this... There never was and still is not any other issue apart from an individuals right to chose how they play the game be it quest and immerse themselves in the story or reach end game content faster by making custom foundry maps.
3. I hypothesize that a persons in game level does not negatively and may even positively correlate with increases of ZEN purchases. In the worst case scenario applying the suggested changes will NOT alter the cash flow.
These three points discuss the conclusion that the true exploits need to be removed but the experience and loot should be returned to the state they were before.
niow, when those maps FIRST hit, I was tempted to try them, but i didnt, cause i was just enjoying what i was doing a little more at the time. To me, the foundary missions were just an amazing break from the monotanty of the MMO grind. I would pick a mission that had an intriguing story line and it would be great cause we'd get excellent exp and have fun with the story while doing it. Now, because of people wantint to rush into endgame in order to be first and top on the socities power chain. They've exploited the foundary and now it's hit with a massive EXP nerf. Which of course destroys the foundry as a viable leveling option. Sure, we can -still- do the foundary for fun. But the lure of the foundry was that it had great EXP along with the inciting player driven content.
That's what we're upset about really, Not that we didnt get in on the exploiting. That we had one of our activities shaved down because people abused the system and ****ed it up for the rest of us who used it like it should be used.
A single mob 10 levels lower in the open zones gives me better loot than 3-4+ encounters at level 20 in a Foundry mission.
I haven't heard of anything, I wish we could get a GM post in here acknowledging our suggestions at the very least, this is obviously a very popular subject.
There. Fixed for truth.
Edit: I realize and agree with the fixing of exploitation of the risk-vs-reward ratio, but I do not agree with the methods and principals being shown by Cryptic at the moment.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
On one hand, I give zero care whatsoever to how another player reaches level 60. Why should I? Does them being max level somehow impact my game? Er.....no, it doesn't. It doesn't affect any of you. Why some of you think these people should be punished is beyond me. Who cares what they did?
By the same token, why does cryptic care so much if people "exploit" the foundry? It's a PvE mechanic. PvErs aren't impacted by other PvErs (aside from needing to be of like level to complete content of course). I understand bug fixes but loot and XP nerfs baffle me.
But then I also understand the point that the Foundry is and always has been the focus of player generated CONTENT, not LOOT. Mobs in both the Foundry and questing have NEVER been the main source of XP so much as it has been the source of that little bit to push you over and ding.
The bulk of experience has always come from completing quests and so far, I have not noticed a difference in XP reward from foundry quests. I don't care about loot since it's random anyway.
So basically this so called "nerf" doesn't really matter to me and instead it appears more like people people are ticked off that XP gleaned from mobs in the Foundry is no longer a large amount is now equal to that found in the open world.
As I said, XP comes from the quests and as far as I can tell, Foundry or open world, that has not changed at all.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, questing is pretty quick. But Foundry was just another option to leveling, that if they had reviewed the maps that came out and blocked the 50 Ogres trapped inside a small wall, we wouldn't be where we're at now. It punished everybody except the exploiters since nobody got banned for it.
Highlighted part is untrue. Foundry xp is now much less than what is found in Cryptic content....IF you kill fast. Take your time killing, and yes, xp is normal as are drops. But, show efficiency in tactics or build skill and you're punished. That's wrong.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
- Purple items. Not in the foundry.
- Gold to fund potion/kit use. Foundry is inefficient and you don't need much gold.
- Astral Diamonds. Daily is a terrible way to get AD. Selling drops (spare purples, blues, shards, and runes) is more efficient. Foundry Daily will also be done as fast as possible to get it over with, most likely the same mission 4 times.
- Runes and Enchantments. Foundry is inefficient because of loot nerfs. Faster to go farm Whispering Caverns.
- Crafting Materials. Not found in the foundry.
- XP for a new pet. Speed running the fastest eligible mission you can find in the Foundry is actually fairly efficient. However, it means avoiding ALL combat and dialogue possible.
If your goal is to improve your character the foundry is almost 100% a waste of time. I don't think this is what Cryptic had in mind, but in their attempt to prevent exploiting they've gone too far and made it useless.
I like this +10
What they SHOULD have done, IMO, is something similar to what ANet did with GW2. Actually have an open beta with the cash shop running such that you could buy from the shop during beta, and when the game release anything you spent during beta was reset for you to use at release. This let the shop be tested and encouraged people to use the shop in beta.
It also means that if utterly gross exploits pop up during open beta that you can wipe characters after fixing the exploit without it being a big deal.
By not having a character wipe and still claiming to be in beta, they can let punks get away with gross exploitation and have a tainted game. Complain all you want but unless you stop playing due to the expoiting, it's pointless.
Who knows, since there's a cash shop involved and exploiters were allowed to get away with cheating, maybe someone will sue. Blizzard is apparently getting sued over not rolling back after a big gold exploit recently. It could set a precedent to get these useless and lazy developers and gaming companies doing something about exploits and cheaters instead of letting it slide.
Really tried, really really tried to make sense of the point you were making in relation to the actual conversation but I couldn't.
no doubt your already 60 and have multiple alts on level 60 fully geared so now your on your high horse, i for one am pissed off that i joined the game after everybody already exploited there way to 60 and i have to level completely legit yet this **** company is that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> they dont know they have let in a game breaking glitch and need to wipe servers.
full wipe on 20th is the only answer or put foundry back to how it was.
I know that after running Foundry almost constantly for days, going and running a regular mission... holy smoke, I felt like loot was just RAINING down -- nodes, chests galore. And if I wanted to, I could 'game' it and keep leaving and coming back. (I don't want to, just to be clear...)
Foundry should never be the best way to get loot, because it's hard enough shaking exploiters as it is, but the gap is a bit extreme right now.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?