As a six and a half year vet of City of Heroes(the game that -pioneered- user generated content, by the way), when the Mission Architect system came out.....same thing happened. People made a bunch of low-risk, high-reward maps and just farmed the h-e-double-hockey-sticks out of them. Bans were leveled once exploits were found. People wailed and gnashed teeth. Paragon Studios started the nerfs. Eventually, the rewards of running AE missions just wasn't worth the effort and people stopped playing AE missions. Even the "good" ones, that were story based.
Taking that page from the lesson book presented to you, Cryptic developers...do NOT remove or reduce the rewards in Foundry missions, otherwise the main draw of your game is now defunct and nullified. Word of warning from someone who has SEEN it happen. Don't repeat someone else's mistake.
Yep, also a CoH vet, this is not a good nerf for them in the long run.
For everyone claiming this doesn't hurt anything and that others leveling to 60 quickly have no advantages.... Let's say I want to join a guild with my normally leveled 15 GF and a level 60 GF also wants to join. We both play casually but in 10 hours I am 20 and he is 60. Who gets that guild spot? A large percentage of players are now at the cap and are actively playing the end game content. My interactions with any of them no longer exist until I also reach 60 and catch up to them in gear tier levels.. which will be more difficult since they will have progressed past the first tier levels. By removing the foundry xp farms you have created a static situation where some players are now behind others and that gap is going to increase not decrease in the future.
Additionally the solution cripples one of the unique features of the game with player created content being a viable way to level. Hundreds of storytellers can and will tell more stories than the team of 3 at PWE. There are lots of other MMO's with lots of the same features as Neverwinter but there was honestly only 1 Foundry. Nerf that feature and what compelling feature keeps me in Neverwinter compared to another game? Maybe the unfinished classes and the coming soon features? Or perhaps the fine character development and end game raiding. The open world PVP? The sandbox features that let me wander the world and find new stories and quests everywhere? Ohh wait, it is the excellent search features for the Auction hall. Neverwinter is a third rate game in it's current state without the foundry. As a glaring example of how little love has been put into the game by the team compared to the love from the fans...... I look at this post I have typed and wonder how no one on the Dev team ever noticed that the forum spellcheck does not know how to spell a certain word correctly. The word, of course, being Neverwinter... why would anyone posting on these forums ever need to use that word.
Don't worry, it will be back soon enough. I give it a month until they add a new service to the Zen store costing 3500 Zen to quadruple XP and item gains from Foundry missions.
I complete agree. Severely reducing Foundry drops or XP is a pretty heavy handed way to fix things. Cryptic should instead make monsters that cannot hit players give no loot or XP. Don't penalize all the good foundry adventures just because of a few bad eggs.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited May 2013
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I complete agree. Severely reducing Foundry drops or XP is a pretty heavy handed way to fix things. Cryptic should instead make monsters that cannot hit players give no loot or XP. Don't penalize all the good foundry adventures just because of a few bad eggs.
Why they already have monsters that can hit not give loot?
Okay, just did a Foundry mission. Level 25, somewhat story-based (not the most amazing story, but it was a new one I was trying out. Not every one will be a winner), so it had some NPCs to talk to, some traveling, decent amount of combat (typical 3-4 normal guys, or 2 normals & an enforcer/officer groups). Not just a bunch of monsters summoned repeatedly in a room.
Got items (1 white, 7 green, 1 blue :eek:), 2 kits, 2 potions, 2 runes, 2 ID scrolls, and a green crafting resource. Oh, and about half a level of xp.
I'm not seeing "the Foundry is dead" here. Not sure what else to say. /shrug
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misspaigeyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Okay, just did a Foundry mission. Level 25, somewhat story-based (not the most amazing story, but it was a new one I was trying out. Not every one will be a winner), so it had some NPCs to talk to, some traveling, decent amount of combat (typical 3-4 normal guys, or 2 normals & an enforcer/officer groups). Not just a bunch of monsters summoned repeatedly in a room.
Got items (1 white, 7 green, 1 blue :eek:), 2 kits, 2 potions, 2 runes, 2 ID scrolls, and a green crafting resource. Oh, and about half a level of xp.
I'm not seeing "the Foundry is dead" here. Not sure what else to say. /shrug
That's because you had the bonus Foundry on at the top of your map, that's when running them is somewhat acceptable.
Well if they wanted to kill the game faster. They sure as heck are doing it.
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temgarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
The foundry was the only reason to play this game. It is what set it apart from other MMOs. If players are not going to run the foundry missions, what is the incentive to author any foundry missions? I am now seriously considering dropping the mission I was making. Who wants to take the time and effort to make a mission no one will play through?
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xraxisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I dropped $60 for a founders pack. I do the foundries for the story, and creativity of others. I originally thought it would be no xp/items at all except for maybe a chest at the end with a bit of both. I think they could tweak it to give a little more xp and items, but the main purpose of the foundry isn't loot or xp.
Seems like there is a real issue of entitlement in this community, and I think that's what will really be the downfall of this game.
The people who are crying the loudest aren't the majority, because the majority are too busy playing the game and having fun.
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misspaigeyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The foundry was the only reason to play this game. It is what set it apart from other MMOs. If players are not going to run the foundry missions, what is the incentive to author any foundry missions? I am now seriously considering dropping the mission I was making. Who wants to take the time and effort to make a mission no one will play through?
Yep, I was definitely going to be making a few and messing around with them, but I won't be anymore.
The foundry was the only reason to play this game. It is what set it apart from other MMOs. If players are not going to run the foundry missions, what is the incentive to author any foundry missions? I am now seriously considering dropping the mission I was making. Who wants to take the time and effort to make a mission no one will play through?
At 60 they scale to be very hard to solo. The rewards is not even worth the trouble. So GL to you all. Now that it is nerf, no reason to do it. I change my mind. Maybe this is a good thing.
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misspaigeyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I dropped $60 for a founders pack. I do the foundries for the story, and creativity of others. I originally thought it would be no xp/items at all except for maybe a chest at the end with a bit of both. I think they could tweak it to give a little more xp and items, but the main purpose of the foundry isn't loot or xp.
Seems like there is a real issue of entitlement in this community, and I think that's what will really be the downfall of this game.
The people who are crying the loudest aren't the majority, because the majority are too busy playing the game and having fun.
And I dropped $340 for founder's pack and Zen. I did the foundries for exp and items, not story and creativity. It works both ways, just because you don't like it one way doesn't mean your way's right you know.
Okay, just did a Foundry mission. Level 25, somewhat story-based (not the most amazing story, but it was a new one I was trying out. Not every one will be a winner), so it had some NPCs to talk to, some traveling, decent amount of combat (typical 3-4 normal guys, or 2 normals & an enforcer/officer groups). Not just a bunch of monsters summoned repeatedly in a room.
Got items (1 white, 7 green, 1 blue :eek:), 2 kits, 2 potions, 2 runes, 2 ID scrolls, and a green crafting resource. Oh, and about half a level of xp.
I'm not seeing "the Foundry is dead" here. Not sure what else to say. /shrug
I did several as well, the drops seem to still be there, I didn't leave in worse shape than I came in and in one I received a very nice Amulet.
Aside from not seeing the OB and grind missions anymore, can't tell the difference.
The foundry was the only reason to play this game. It is what set it apart from other MMOs. If players are not going to run the foundry missions, what is the incentive to author any foundry missions? I am now seriously considering dropping the mission I was making. Who wants to take the time and effort to make a mission no one will play through?
I bet if you search for this, you can find this exactly, word for word, every time Cryptic fixes an exploit in the STO Foundry, from multiple people. And then the Foundry keeps on expanding, and the playerbase keeps on expanding, and those same people come back to complain that the next fix when they find another exploit.
If the quest you were developing is legit, it'll still be legit after this fix, and after the next round of tweaks. If it was an exploit, by all means stop working on it.
Meanwhile the Foundry continues to draw massive numbers of people to this game.
The foundry wasn't implemented so that people could power level. It was so that we could create content and share stories and experiences with the community. I'm actually happy that those maps were removed/nerfed. It means you'll see more people in queues and doing other stuff. The damage has been done and they didn't say anything against it so they can't really do anything without doing a wipe.
The foundry was the only reason to play this game. It is what set it apart from other MMOs. If players are not going to run the foundry missions, what is the incentive to author any foundry missions? I am now seriously considering dropping the mission I was making. Who wants to take the time and effort to make a mission no one will play through?
The incentive would be the story.. That's the whole idea behind the foundry. User created stories that you all can enjoy, that was the whole point behind it. Sure they should maybe reward some experience points and maybe an item or something, but the focus is not that, but the story and the journey, to see what happens in the quest.
A great fix for all the nerfs would've been that the chest only gave the experience reward. All the mobs would still drop items and such, but reward no experience. It would all be calculated based on what you did and how long it took. For example if you went idle for 4 hours and killed nothing you wouldn't get much. If you spent 10 min aoeing 100 ogres you wouldn't get much either. If you spent 1 hour killing ~30 mobs doing a story driven quest, you would get a decent ammount of xp. If you spent 1 hour killing ogres you would also get a decent ammount of xp. Then another good fix would've been to make mobs immune if they can't attack you for a while, meaning if they are stuck in a pit, they can't die, if you have to fight them evenly, they do.
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xantrisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You're right, it wasn't an exploit to me, but even if they think it is, they still let all of the "exploiters" get away with it, now there's 60s all over the place, that's my problem with it.
So your solution is what? To let the exploit continue? Ban all the accounts that used it? Who the hell cares if a couple people got to 60 using it? It hardly takes any time to level even doing so legit.
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temgarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
The incentive would be the story.. That's the whole idea behind the foundry. User created stories that you all can enjoy, that was the whole point behind it. Sure they should maybe reward some experience points and maybe an item or something, but the focus is not that, but the story and the journey, to see what happens in the quest.
A great fix for all the nerfs would've been that the chest only gave the experience reward. All the mobs would still drop items and such, but reward no experience. It would all be calculated based on what you did and how long it took. For example if you went idle for 4 hours and killed nothing you wouldn't get much. If you spent 10 min aoeing 100 ogres you wouldn't get much either. If you spent 1 hour killing ~30 mobs doing a story driven quest, you would get a decent ammount of xp. If you spent 1 hour killing ogres you would also get a decent ammount of xp. Then another good fix would've been to make mobs immune if they can't attack you for a while, meaning if they are stuck in a pit, they can't die, if you have to fight them evenly, they do.
No one should take my first post as complaining please. I run the foundry missions for the story, hence why I wanted to make one. My intended use was never as a gear or exp grind. My main point is the fear that if people stop running foundry missions or run them rarely, then people will stop making any or very few of them. Then there will be no new stories or very few anyway, for those of us who run them for the story. I could care less about nerfs, they happen in every MMO I have played since 1999 when my journey began. People complain about the nerf, get used to it, end of story until the next nerf. I really never care about exploiters either, they usually burn themselves out and run out of stuff to do and move to another game anyway.
all player get a skill for useing their damage abilities if the skill is not raised skills start to fail they just dont work after a point limit the rate at which you can raise the skill and bam no one can use foundry missions to lvl stupid fast
for example say the devs decree we dont think its possible to lvl more than x amount a day so they set the skill gain limit to that, lets say 7 lvls a day. If you play normally you have no problem raiseing skill, it would happen with normal play
well what if someone hits it accidentaly and now cant cast, unlikely id say BUT, you just got to wait x amount of time
or maybe instead of no damage at all you start doing less and less till its barely doing any damage
Oh and if you devs think this is great idea and want to give me a job id be ecstatic lol.
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girmmMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Leveling in this game is trivial, I didn't mash on ogres and managed to get to 60 just fine in under 2 and 1/2 days of played time going through dev provided content with the occasional pvp match or foundry quest.
Who cares if someone killed mobs in the foundry vs. ran through the premade content the dev's provided to get to 60. I most certainly would like to level more characters and if I'm going to be rehashing the same quests to get there it mind as well be efficient....
Leveling in this game is trivial, I didn't mash on ogres and managed to get to 60 just fine in under 2 and 1/2 days of played time going through dev provided content with the occasional pvp match or foundry quest.
Who cares if someone killed mobs in the foundry vs. ran through the premade content the dev's provided to get to 60. I most certainly would like to level more characters and if I'm going to be rehashing the same quests to get there it mind as well be efficient....
I am 34 and playing since the 30th.I putter around alot.Another game it took me two weeks from 50 to 55.Everyone plays different.It works for me.
So your solution is what? To let the exploit continue? Ban all the accounts that used it? Who the hell cares if a couple people got to 60 using it? It hardly takes any time to level even doing so legit.
I don't really have an opinion on the foundry stuff as I'm new and have only run a few of them - that being said I agree with part of this post. I downloaded this game on Sunday, I've played perhaps eight hours and I'm level 30. It's not like it takes very long to level. (PS I've only really done the main quest, the only foundry thing I've run is the hidden blade. PVP got me like six levels though, that seems pretty broken if anything. )
all player get a skill for useing their damage abilities if the skill is not raised skills start to fail they just dont work after a point limit the rate at which you can raise the skill and bam no one can use foundry missions to lvl stupid fast
for example say the devs decree we dont think its possible to lvl more than x amount a day so they set the skill gain limit to that, lets say 7 lvls a day. If you play normally you have no problem raiseing skill, it would happen with normal play
well what if someone hits it accidentaly and now cant cast, unlikely id say BUT, you just got to wait x amount of time
or maybe instead of no damage at all you start doing less and less till its barely doing any damage
Oh and if you devs think this is great idea and want to give me a job id be ecstatic lol.
Yes, because stamina systems work SO well in North American games..... i guess we are like korea and DIE from playing games
This is not open for debate... Who cares if someone is 60; its none of your business or effects you in anyway. The problem was exploited maps... Not maps with 50 Ogres in it (thats 100% legit.) But a <removed exploit details> Like the guy above me said; lvling is trivial. I can cap with Vanilla content in 1 day and 10-12 hours. The Foundry exploit is around 15 hours with CW... Maybe even faster. Again nothing huge in advantage there... Its just time.
Your real issue is that those <removed exploit details> dropped tons of Gold and Items... Again who cares most of it was taken out of game from vendors prob not trading. (But that is still the only valid complaint; whether I agree of not.)
Now they could have given <removed exploit details> invincibility; like lots of games, and or fixed the bugged traps for one.
Instead they Nerf the foundry's themselves? This is a bad thing not a good thing in any way. And this will lead to policing of the content...Something they should be in control of. Your already had 100s QQing about anyone grinding... I mean are you kidding me?
And to the guy who says the only people running foundries should be for fun <removed insult>; plz tell us how to play more...
Ive never seen so many people looking for group content before... Let people farm if they want.. You can do the same thing ANYWHERE in the game.
Remove the exploiting map makers and problem solved... The flag system was also a good step; cept for your going to get <removed insult> sending you exploit warnings because they don't know the difference. Maybe if anything the review time by staff should take longer.
Im ok with it taking a week to activate if it means things can go back to how they were. Because this is nothing more then a shell of what it was...
Instead they crippled the foundry... Who is going to run foundry at 75%+ xp reduction to rest of world (even less in party) or the fact items drops are reduced also. 60s will have no incentive to even bother. This is a shame... Its merely a supplement now; there goes the magic of endless content...
Again... this was a huge part of this game. The incentives other then for the hell of it are none now...
I am worried because this is a sign of how they plan on handling things.
They should have established the flagging system, and Banned Exploiting map makers... I dont even care about the players. They did nothing but take advantage of what the game allowed to happen. (They didn't see that coming?)
Then give it a lil while and take a look at balancing more... This was to much at once.
Im not QQing, its really upsetting and takes a nic at part of the magic of this game.
And no, even with the daily incentive for AD its not enough to raise the participation to where it was at. It was almost an entire game in itself. Now it will just be people poking their head in or bored to death. (Other then the daily.)
Im sorry it just feels the exploiters got free 60s and the average players get the shaft for it... That makes no sense.
Should have done the flagging and banning of creators first then looked into the rest... not all at once; that was foolish.
Comments
Yep, also a CoH vet, this is not a good nerf for them in the long run.
Additionally the solution cripples one of the unique features of the game with player created content being a viable way to level. Hundreds of storytellers can and will tell more stories than the team of 3 at PWE. There are lots of other MMO's with lots of the same features as Neverwinter but there was honestly only 1 Foundry. Nerf that feature and what compelling feature keeps me in Neverwinter compared to another game? Maybe the unfinished classes and the coming soon features? Or perhaps the fine character development and end game raiding. The open world PVP? The sandbox features that let me wander the world and find new stories and quests everywhere? Ohh wait, it is the excellent search features for the Auction hall. Neverwinter is a third rate game in it's current state without the foundry. As a glaring example of how little love has been put into the game by the team compared to the love from the fans...... I look at this post I have typed and wonder how no one on the Dev team ever noticed that the forum spellcheck does not know how to spell a certain word correctly. The word, of course, being Neverwinter... why would anyone posting on these forums ever need to use that word.
Yeah, that has *never* ended badly.
Heh, unfortunately that's what happened.
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Why they already have monsters that can hit not give loot?
Got items (1 white, 7 green, 1 blue :eek:), 2 kits, 2 potions, 2 runes, 2 ID scrolls, and a green crafting resource. Oh, and about half a level of xp.
I'm not seeing "the Foundry is dead" here. Not sure what else to say. /shrug
That's because you had the bonus Foundry on at the top of your map, that's when running them is somewhat acceptable.
Seems like there is a real issue of entitlement in this community, and I think that's what will really be the downfall of this game.
The people who are crying the loudest aren't the majority, because the majority are too busy playing the game and having fun.
Yep, I was definitely going to be making a few and messing around with them, but I won't be anymore.
At 60 they scale to be very hard to solo. The rewards is not even worth the trouble. So GL to you all. Now that it is nerf, no reason to do it. I change my mind. Maybe this is a good thing.
And I dropped $340 for founder's pack and Zen. I did the foundries for exp and items, not story and creativity. It works both ways, just because you don't like it one way doesn't mean your way's right you know.
I did several as well, the drops seem to still be there, I didn't leave in worse shape than I came in and in one I received a very nice Amulet.
Aside from not seeing the OB and grind missions anymore, can't tell the difference.
Personally, I think they should have made this Beta a real Beta & wiped (that way they can actually TEST) but it wouldn't be as profitable.
I bet if you search for this, you can find this exactly, word for word, every time Cryptic fixes an exploit in the STO Foundry, from multiple people. And then the Foundry keeps on expanding, and the playerbase keeps on expanding, and those same people come back to complain that the next fix when they find another exploit.
If the quest you were developing is legit, it'll still be legit after this fix, and after the next round of tweaks. If it was an exploit, by all means stop working on it.
Meanwhile the Foundry continues to draw massive numbers of people to this game.
The foundry wasn't implemented so that people could power level. It was so that we could create content and share stories and experiences with the community. I'm actually happy that those maps were removed/nerfed. It means you'll see more people in queues and doing other stuff. The damage has been done and they didn't say anything against it so they can't really do anything without doing a wipe.
The incentive would be the story.. That's the whole idea behind the foundry. User created stories that you all can enjoy, that was the whole point behind it. Sure they should maybe reward some experience points and maybe an item or something, but the focus is not that, but the story and the journey, to see what happens in the quest.
A great fix for all the nerfs would've been that the chest only gave the experience reward. All the mobs would still drop items and such, but reward no experience. It would all be calculated based on what you did and how long it took. For example if you went idle for 4 hours and killed nothing you wouldn't get much. If you spent 10 min aoeing 100 ogres you wouldn't get much either. If you spent 1 hour killing ~30 mobs doing a story driven quest, you would get a decent ammount of xp. If you spent 1 hour killing ogres you would also get a decent ammount of xp. Then another good fix would've been to make mobs immune if they can't attack you for a while, meaning if they are stuck in a pit, they can't die, if you have to fight them evenly, they do.
So your solution is what? To let the exploit continue? Ban all the accounts that used it? Who the hell cares if a couple people got to 60 using it? It hardly takes any time to level even doing so legit.
No one should take my first post as complaining please. I run the foundry missions for the story, hence why I wanted to make one. My intended use was never as a gear or exp grind. My main point is the fear that if people stop running foundry missions or run them rarely, then people will stop making any or very few of them. Then there will be no new stories or very few anyway, for those of us who run them for the story. I could care less about nerfs, they happen in every MMO I have played since 1999 when my journey began. People complain about the nerf, get used to it, end of story until the next nerf. I really never care about exploiters either, they usually burn themselves out and run out of stuff to do and move to another game anyway.
all player get a skill for useing their damage abilities if the skill is not raised skills start to fail they just dont work after a point limit the rate at which you can raise the skill and bam no one can use foundry missions to lvl stupid fast
for example say the devs decree we dont think its possible to lvl more than x amount a day so they set the skill gain limit to that, lets say 7 lvls a day. If you play normally you have no problem raiseing skill, it would happen with normal play
well what if someone hits it accidentaly and now cant cast, unlikely id say BUT, you just got to wait x amount of time
or maybe instead of no damage at all you start doing less and less till its barely doing any damage
Oh and if you devs think this is great idea and want to give me a job id be ecstatic lol.
Who cares if someone killed mobs in the foundry vs. ran through the premade content the dev's provided to get to 60. I most certainly would like to level more characters and if I'm going to be rehashing the same quests to get there it mind as well be efficient....
I am 34 and playing since the 30th.I putter around alot.Another game it took me two weeks from 50 to 55.Everyone plays different.It works for me.
I don't really have an opinion on the foundry stuff as I'm new and have only run a few of them - that being said I agree with part of this post. I downloaded this game on Sunday, I've played perhaps eight hours and I'm level 30. It's not like it takes very long to level. (PS I've only really done the main quest, the only foundry thing I've run is the hidden blade. PVP got me like six levels though, that seems pretty broken if anything. )
Yes, because stamina systems work SO well in North American games..... i guess we are like korea and DIE from playing games
Your real issue is that those <removed exploit details> dropped tons of Gold and Items... Again who cares most of it was taken out of game from vendors prob not trading. (But that is still the only valid complaint; whether I agree of not.)
Now they could have given <removed exploit details> invincibility; like lots of games, and or fixed the bugged traps for one.
Instead they Nerf the foundry's themselves?
And to the guy who says the only people running foundries should be for fun <removed insult>; plz tell us how to play more...
Ive never seen so many people looking for group content before... Let people farm if they want.. You can do the same thing ANYWHERE in the game.
Remove the exploiting map makers and problem solved... The flag system was also a good step; cept for your going to get <removed insult> sending you exploit warnings because they don't know the difference. Maybe if anything the review time by staff should take longer.
Im ok with it taking a week to activate if it means things can go back to how they were. Because this is nothing more then a shell of what it was...
Instead they crippled the foundry... Who is going to run foundry at 75%+ xp reduction to rest of world (even less in party) or the fact items drops are reduced also. 60s will have no incentive to even bother. This is a shame... Its merely a supplement now; there goes the magic of endless content...
Again... this was a huge part of this game. The incentives other then for the hell of it are none now...
I am worried because this is a sign of how they plan on handling things.
They should have established the flagging system, and Banned Exploiting map makers... I dont even care about the players. They did nothing but take advantage of what the game allowed to happen. (They didn't see that coming?)
Then give it a lil while and take a look at balancing more... This was to much at once.
Im not QQing, its really upsetting and takes a nic at part of the magic of this game.
And no, even with the daily incentive for AD its not enough to raise the participation to where it was at. It was almost an entire game in itself. Now it will just be people poking their head in or bored to death. (Other then the daily.)
Im sorry it just feels the exploiters got free 60s and the average players get the shaft for it... That makes no sense.
Should have done the flagging and banning of creators first then looked into the rest... not all at once; that was foolish.
Please reevaluate