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R u sure Im a healer?

jackpot84jackpot84 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
edited May 2013 in The Temple
Im lvl 18 cleric. I've healed in WoW and yea I know this isn't WoW. However, I was just out healed by a weapons fighter... I was out dpsed by everyone, but the Guardian Fighter. So what good is my character.

I defended this game stating that the rogue is the dps of the game. The control wizard is obviously crowd control, but the cleric should be good at healing, but my heals are so low that a potion of lesser healing does 2k and my HoTs do about 1155 over the time of the spell. That's how i get out healed. The potions are cheap and the cooldowns are laughable. I mean what the hell...

I'm just going to be forced to play the rogue and out dps, heal, and tank the rest of the party because this game is very broken. I understand that the game is still in Beta, but at least have a clue on what the class should be like. The cleric is just a waste of space in a party. Sure they heal a little and support, but a weapons fighter or rogue would help the party much more.

Oh well, troll away and tell me that this game is not WoW. I would tell u to go play something other than the rogue.
Post edited by jackpot84 on
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Comments

  • modeousmaximusmodeousmaximus Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    This isnt WoW!!!!


    Learn how to heal, nub!
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Level 18 is a little early (to be honest, clerics can't heal REALLY well until 50).

    If you want to see a cleric actually healing though, check out the build in my sig.
  • spazzenspazzen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ehm ur kinda playing the cleric wrong

    Just sayin...

    This is not WoW (new WoW) where you spam heal everyone and never run out of mana. If you don't believe that Clerics does difference in dungeons (even low level) then I dunno...

    Play rogue maybe?
  • rkv13rkv13 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 217 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Clerics are almost necessary at later levels (30+) because no other class can heal the group. GWF has Restoring Strike, which only heals himself, and everyone gets a bit of life steal, but between Astral Seal, Sunburst, Healing Word, Repurpose Soul, Forgemaster's Flame, Bastion of Health, Soothing Light, etc. the Cleric thoroughly outstrips them all.

    Potions are meant for burst healing in dangerous situations, which is why they heal for so much all at once, but as a Cleric your job is to make sure your team never has to use them unless they really screw up. You accomplish this through "maintenance healing" which means keeping your allies as close to max health as possible at all times. Don't wait for your allies to get hurt, just start healing right from the get-go and never ever stop. Keep Astral Seal on every target in range and pop Healing Word on every cooldown.

    The GWF might have out-healed you once but that's not even remotely indicative of the overall balance of the game. TBH I have no idea how you didn't get top score on Field Medic. That's on you, not the game. Forget everything you think you know about healing and learn how to play Neverwinter.
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  • mogdamusmogdamus Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Potions are REALLY annoying as a healer. When tank/dps classes have the ability to heal themselves to full in a group setting it's can be super frustrating. The healer might as well not even be there. But you can't give up based on level 18 gameplay. The game's intended to be super easy at that level. Higher level group content will generate far more damage than can be healed by potions, with the cooldown.

    If you enjoy healing then stick with it. If you're easily frustrated, then a critical group position like healer probably isn't for you.

    Then again, I'm only level 20. If tank/dps classes can still heal themselves to full at level 40+ with pots, then I'll probably stop playing. There's no point in playing a healer in a game that doesn't value them.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Remember you're also a buffing class. There is NO better skill for a boss fight than Hallowed Ground - you literally make everyone better.
  • jackpot84jackpot84 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Im definitely going to level my cleric. Just a little frustrating that the class is built around healing and ur saying I have to wait until later levels (ie 50) until I can heal.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Level 50 until you can heal REALLY well. You can still heal pretty good before that, it's just that at 50 you get Astral Shield, and that's damage reduction for the whole group, + regen if you cast it with Divinity.
  • doomsday22kdoomsday22k Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You can heal at earlier levels, but you are just lacking a few of the tools to make you a 'better' healer.
    As you level up you get new skills which suit the content for your level.

    There is a small gap here and there, but wait until you hit mad dragon at around level 30.
    Throw healing convention out the door and think about how you can survive. This is where DPS will
    come to realise tunnelling the boss is a bad idea and protecting you is a much better idea.

    There is a relentless onslaught of adds with this boss. They will wipe the floor with you. :-)
  • datemperdatemper Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 210 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    jackpot84 wrote: »
    Im lvl 18 cleric. I've healed in WoW and yea I know this isn't WoW. However, I was just out healed by a weapons fighter... I was out dpsed by everyone, but the Guardian Fighter. So what good is my character.

    I defended this game stating that the rogue is the dps of the game. The control wizard is obviously crowd control, but the cleric should be good at healing, but my heals are so low that a potion of lesser healing does 2k and my HoTs do about 1155 over the time of the spell. That's how i get out healed. The potions are cheap and the cooldowns are laughable. I mean what the hell...

    I'm just going to be forced to play the rogue and out dps, heal, and tank the rest of the party because this game is very broken. I understand that the game is still in Beta, but at least have a clue on what the class should be like. The cleric is just a waste of space in a party. Sure they heal a little and support, but a weapons fighter or rogue would help the party much more.

    Oh well, troll away and tell me that this game is not WoW. I would tell u to go play something other than the rogue.

    If you're PUGing or soloing to progress as a DC do yourself a favor and spec AOE DD/CC with defense a second priority.You can respec later.

    As far as I'm concerned when PUGing the survivability of the DC and the party go up ten fold if the DC can man handle the adds for himself and for soloing it makes life so much sweeter.

    Sure you'll get players QQ that you're not specced to heal,just tell them if they want a heal bot to grab the cleric companion lol.
  • teflondon75teflondon75 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Because nobody else said it I will...Be glad the pots are cheap and work so well because soon enough you'll be using more of them than anybody else hehe :P

    Keep going, it gets better. You do not need a tank or healer in the first instance but soon enough they'll be happy you're there.
  • uvirith1uvirith1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 124
    edited May 2013
    btw, Im pretty sure that the heals from our heal-seal count towards the people who heal themselves while doing damage, not to our own healing.
    So its safe to say you can count 50% of the healing done by DDs and the Tanks towards your own healing.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    ACT says differently. ASeal is my second highest healing spell in a dungeon, that cannot be all from myself.
  • purutzilpurutzil Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Really? I easily was top healing at that level and sadly even was second in a dungeon run in dungeon WHILE healing. Healers aren't suppose to carry a team but no way should you be below others on team like that. That is on you. Should be using your hot and Poe heals while using divine power for that extra ticking of heals
    GWF level 60 (Beholder) - The pains of leveling!
    Cleric level 5X (Dragon) - Holy goblin so much easier!
  • emorbidemorbid Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I hate that the common theme to this thread is, "You're kinda weak at the role at the beginning, but once you're 4/5ths of the way to max level, then you're not going to be disappointed." Tricksters don't have to wait for end game to become effective at DPSing; same as Control Wizards don't have to wait til 30 to feel like they can control the battlefield with stuns, dazes, slows and knockbacks.

    I wish that cleric heals were designed better out of the gate (and same with GF and threat) - from the looks of things, the light's pretty awesome at the end of the tunnel. Too bad it seems like other classes don't even have a tunnel to go through.
    "There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
    -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
  • uvirith1uvirith1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 124
    edited May 2013
    deistik wrote: »
    ACT says differently. ASeal is my second highest healing spell in a dungeon, that cannot be all from myself.

    well it was just a guess. would have explained the insane selfheal of trickster rogues for instance.
  • rayni250rayni250 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Ummm, even at 18 my cleric healed really well, my advice is look up the builds and do research. Our clerics heal based off of dps abilities for the most part, so you need to spec out that way. Kinda like a chloromancer in Rift (or so I've been told)

    Also I'd like to point out that at every 10 levels past 30 all classes seem to get a boost at what they were already decent at, and that's basically across the board from what I've seen.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    uvirith1 wrote: »
    well it was just a guess. would have explained the insane selfheal of trickster rogues for instance.

    Said rogue most likely stacks lifesteal on his gear and feats/powers. I'm not a rogue but I know our guild TR has some pretty decent self healing.
  • yukishiro3yukishiro3 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 94
    edited May 2013
    One of the issues with the class is that at first the healing is so limited. It definitely becomes a better class as you level up but I think people who leveled up a long time ago forget how long it does take to really get going. People talking about "specs" at level 18 are a great example. Nothing you can spec for at level 18 does much of anything to really improve your healing much. Sure you can get another 10% on most of your skills but that's chump change. Healing for 11 instead of 10 is not exactly a huge bonus.
  • guero5guero5 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Another issue I see so far is that whenever I join PUGs most of my party mates have brought cleric companions. So, my heals are rarely ever needed. Of course those companions can't save them from nasty hits like I can. But those are few and far between. So, I find myself DPSing more than anything. That's fine, but I created a cleric to heal, with some spot DPSing; not DPS with some spot healing.

    When the OP says that he/she was out healed by a non-healing class, is it possible that the scores at the end for each player include what their companion has done?
  • sgceosgceo Member Posts: 10
    edited May 2013
    guero5 wrote: »
    Another issue I see so far is that whenever I join PUGs most of my party mates have brought cleric companions. So, my heals are rarely ever needed. Of course those companions can't save them from nasty hits like I can. But those are few and far between. So, I find myself DPSing more than anything. That's fine, but I created a cleric to heal, with some spot DPSing; not DPS with some spot healing.

    When the OP says that he/she was out healed by a non-healing class, is it possible that the scores at the end for each player include what their companion has done?

    A cleric will only truly do his job as a healer from level 50 (or at the earliest, from level 30). You need to appreciate that it's not you who have the highest healing score at earlier level, else you'd die in dungeon.
  • kaptainokaptaino Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Do you get credit for the damage/heals done by your cleric companion?

    I easily topped heals in skirmishes and dungeons by a factor of 10 before we got companions, now (level 23) I'm usually 3rd or so (behind the 2-3 people with cleric companions).

    Maybe I need to "lern2play" because this definitely isn't WoW healing - much more active. Sometimes I had a real hard time healing the tank because the dps were standing in the way. I just feel like I didn't contribute much to the party, I feel like I would have been more effective on my CW with a cleric companion.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    For the most part, single target healing just doesn't work in this game, too much moving around, etc. I just heal everyone at once and then all is right in the world :)
  • cwiyk13cwiyk13 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    jackpot84 wrote: »
    Im lvl 18 cleric. I've healed in WoW and yea I know this isn't WoW. However, I was just out healed by a weapons fighter...

    ...I understand that the game is still in Beta, but at least have a clue on what the class should be like. The cleric is just a waste of space in a party...

    Could you describe how you're playing your Devoted Cleric at level 18? If you're interested in reading the advice of your fellow clerics, it would help to give us more information with which to work.


    In the absence of knowledge about your play-style, I'll tell you two things: first, reading this thread regarding targetted healing: "Targeted Healing and it's pitfalls?".

    Second, I'll tell you how I play when grouping as my Devoted Cleric around level 18. Keep in mind, this is just how I played.

    -Between fights, I cast one charge of Healing Word once on the main tank just before the main tank engages. I think of it as preventative medicine. I may do the same on another party member if I notice that they consistently take a lot of damage in fights. (I try to keep one charge of Healing Word and one charge of Divinity held reserve in case I need to immediately heal someone.)
    -When the fight starts, I Astral Seal the big stuff first. I don't cast Astral Seal on the weaker mobs at this point. If there are trash mobs left by the time I finish the other steps, I can choose to Astral Seal them at that time.
    -I cast Chains of Blazing Light (Divine Powered if I have a spare charge) on the biggest cluster of enemies.
    -I position myself to cast Sunburst such that it affects as many enemies as possible while also hitting as many of my allies as possible, with preference for hitting my allies who have the lowest health.
    -I check to see if anyone needs their health topped off. Usually, they do not. If they do, I cast one or more charges of Healing Word on them. If really necessary, I use Divined Powered direct healing.
    -While waiting for Chains of Blazing Light and Sunburst to come off their cool-downs, I reapply Astral Seal to the strongest mobs and then decide whether to apply Astral Seal to the remaining trash or start killing things with Lance of Faith.
    -If I notice that I rarely need to cast Healing Word, I'll switch it out for Searing Light. I usually cast a Divine powered Searing Light after I've used Chains of Blazing Light and at the same cluster of enemies. That combo will usually wipe out a group of trash.
    -Rinse, repeat.

    That summarizes how I played at that level. It is true that the Devoted Cleric's aoe healing potential increases dramatically as they level up. However, a Devoted Cleric, using all the tools at their disposal to good effect, will always be of great use to a group.
    Krae Vull - Devoted Cleric
  • kaptainokaptaino Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I only have so many heals that don't require targeting at my disposal though.

    If I'm using the at-will that causes lifegain on hit, and my Sunburst is on cooldown and the tank is low life I can either keep on auto attacking and hope I crit and the aoe heal from it is enough to get him up or I can try to divine power RMB him, or I can try to Healing Word him (with or without Divine Power).

    I'm low level so obviously there is a world of difference between what I'm experiencing and end-game stuff but it's still disheartening.

    Most of the dungeon it felt like the group didn't need my heals and the times they did I didn't feel like I was able to meet their needs.

    When you're in a group does the cleric companion heal anyone/everyone in the group or only it's owner?
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    I said this in another thread, but I really feel clerics should get Astral Shield @25 instead of 50. This is THE staple cleric healing spell.
  • karandordaockarandordaoc Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 51
    edited May 2013
    Knowing how to properly use channel divinity will increase your healing by a hug amount.

    The real reason your healing is low at earlier levels is the dungeons are WAY easier and it isn't needed and you still don't know what you're doing.
  • biotabondobiotabondo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My cleric is only level 23 or so, but I've yet to be outhealed in any skirmish or dungeon and I'm often one of the top damage dealers. I'm still pretty much running the first skills you unlock, Lance of Faith, Astral Seal, Sun Burst, Healer's Lore, etc... I think the biggest thing is using Sun Burst on every cool down - it heals for a ton. I'd imagine some large percent of my healing is pure overheal, but if you are worried about topping the healing chart that is the way to do it. I'm also not sure who the healing from Astral Seal gets attributed to, i.e. do you get all the credit or does the person who hits the mob get the credit for the healing? The most important thing is that your groups don't die. One last thing I'll say is that I just did Cragmire Crypts for the first time last night and for once I was actually having to use Healing Word and make sure to try and heal in the final boss fight. We only had 4 people and adds weren't dying fast enough so it was a fun fight.
  • deistikdeistik Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 658 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    biotabondo wrote: »
    I'm also not sure who the healing from Astral Seal gets attributed to, i.e. do you get all the credit or does the person who hits the mob get the credit for the healing?

    You get it. It always says "[your] Astral Seal heals [ally] for xxxx."
  • kaptainokaptaino Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    biotabondo wrote: »
    My cleric is only level 23 or so, but I've yet to be outhealed in any skirmish or dungeon and I'm often one of the top damage dealers. I'm still pretty much running the first skills you unlock, Lance of Faith, Astral Seal, Sun Burst, Healer's Lore, etc... I think the biggest thing is using Sun Burst on every cool down - it heals for a ton. I'd imagine some large percent of my healing is pure overheal, but if you are worried about topping the healing chart that is the way to do it. I'm also not sure who the healing from Astral Seal gets attributed to, i.e. do you get all the credit or does the person who hits the mob get the credit for the healing? The most important thing is that your groups don't die. One last thing I'll say is that I just did Cragmire Crypts for the first time last night and for once I was actually having to use Healing Word and make sure to try and heal in the final boss fight. We only had 4 people and adds weren't dying fast enough so it was a fun fight.

    Which companion do you use in Dungeons and Skirmishes?

    If the healing chart is including overheal that's unfortunate but it would explain some of it.

    Someone had said earlier they use ACT (I assume some kind of damage/heal meter add-on) and confirmed that the Astral Seal heal is all attributed to the Cleric.

    I also did Cragmire last night and Holy Word sat unused on my bar for most of the dungeon. We got into trouble three times, once in the Phase Spiders, once in the room with the two Mimics and vs the end guy. I didn't get to healing word much vs the Mimics, I was kiting them up and down the passage while the group killed the rest of the room. Against the last boss I tried to use it and that was when I had so much trouble targetting the tank. I think all melee DPS should roll halflings and all tanks should roll Half Orc for ease of targetting!

    We beat it with no deaths but it was a close thing and I can't help feeling that the reason it was so close was that my healing was so ineffectual.

    Hopefully it's just a skill thing and I'll lern2play or something =)
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