berycMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm just super disappointed, is all. I had so much hope for Neverwinter, and straight up, I'm just not willing to invest my time with the current situation. Although hearing you guys talk about GW2 so much, I think I might go make a new character. Logged on my lowbie mesmer the other day just to see what's up, and I totally didn't even kind of remember how to play that class.
And rift would still be a better value in 3 months. Becasue for 45 dollars I could get everything. 45 dollars in neverwinter gets one horse and a few keys.
Now spend $30 in Rift, and $30 in Neverwinter, and tell me which one's a better value in three months.
Or spend $45 in each, and tell me which is a better value in four months.
We can keep this up for months. Not too many, though, because within a year or two Rift will either close down or switch to F2P.
This claim is endlessly repeated on the forums - "I won't spend anything here because (X), and Cryptic should care because I spend a lot on games." "I'm leaving and I'm taking my 1000-member guild with me."
Talk is cheap. Cryptic knows whether or not they're making money, and that's what they care about, not about unverifiable claims on the forums.
According to my industry contacts, the statistics show that people who complain about prices being too high on the forums statistically stay in the game longer than average, and spend more money than average.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
I agree with the OP that the constant ZEN billboard in your face kills immersion and is annoying. I mean when you sit back and think about it the game is one big advertisement for the zen store, and it feels as if you are constantly funneled towards paying for so many things in the game. I start to feel herded and the gameplay becomes secondary to my perception of this. When I start thinking about how the game steers people to the zen store so often it feels shallow and it loses its appeal. The psychology behind it for me being the company cares more about its profit than it does about the quality of its game.
I know they have to make profit to continue to exist as a company and continue development, but when I hear, just for example, someone like Dean Hall, the lead developer of DayZ say things like "I just made a game that I wanted to play, that I wanted to see be made" and then I see that game become wildly successful with a highly anticipated stand-alone on the way, I feel like the gaming industry needs more developers who have this mindset of passion, imagination, and creativity over profit. When a company puts profit over all of those things you get games like this that suffer from this ever present and integrated zen market advertisement. Bottom line for me, it cheapens the game.
According to my industry contacts, the statistics show that people who complain about prices being too high on the forums statistically stay in the game longer than average, and spend more money than average.
They are also more popular with supermodels, drive expensive sports cars and have 1.2933 yachts per capita.
They are, in fact, the most interesting players in the world.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
They are also more popular with supermodels, drive expensive sports cars and have 1.2933 yachts per capita.
They are, in fact, the most interesting players in the world.
Their revenues over the last 12 months are something like 3 billion. They pay a significant share dividend to their stockholders. Yeah, they're really driving customers out the door with these prices.
I'll trust somebody's wallet more than their words, and I'll trust PW's financials more than forum angst as an indicator of customer satisfaction.
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berycMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
I agree with the OP that the constant ZEN billboard in your face kills immersion and is annoying. I mean when you sit back and think about it the game is one big advertisement for the zen store, and it feels as if you are constantly funneled towards paying for so many things in the game. I start to feel herded and the gameplay becomes secondary to my perception of this. When I start thinking about how the game steers people to the zen store so often it feels shallow and it loses its appeal. The psychology behind it for me being the company cares more about its profit than it does about the quality of its game.
I know they have to make profit to continue to exist as a company and continue development, but when I hear, just for example, someone like Dean Hall, the lead developer of DayZ say things like "I just made a game that I wanted to play, that I wanted to see be made" and then I see that game become wildly successful with a highly anticipated stand-alone on the way, I feel like the gaming industry needs more developers who have this mindset of passion, imagination, and creativity over profit. When a company puts profit over all of those things you get games like this that suffer from this ever present and integrated zen market advertisement. Bottom line for me, it cheapens the game.
This. Thank you.
I had no idea PWE had so many games until I checked out NVW. As mentioned before, I was a founder/lifetime subscriber to STO, which was Cryptic at the beginning (later acquired by PWE). It seems weird to me that one company would run 11 concurrent MMOs and have any time to actually develop any of them, or give any of them the attention they properly deserve. Blizzard runs one (D3 doesn't count, it's not an MMO), Trion runs 2. NCSoft runs 6, but those are broken up into sub-developers (The GW2 and Lineage people are not the same, for example).
I know there's no way the STO team is made up of the same people who run NVW, but a company with 11 concurrent games - which should really have competing clientbases, for a large part, must have trouble prioritizing, I would think.
According to my industry contacts, the statistics show that people who complain about prices being too high on the forums statistically stay in the game longer than average, and spend more money than average.
It's probably because we want to spend money. We just think the prices are over inflated, and that they would make more money from us if they lowered them.
edit: I foolishly bought $20 worth of zen before I checked the prices of things in the zen store. I will not pay a dollar more unless there is some kind of sale of zen or lower prices on items. I will take my money to another game, the industry is flooded with MMOs. This is not a threat, just a fact. We do not feel like our money is well spent here.
From a psychological perspective they have the average MMO player nailed. They know that dedicated players and fans will be excited to be playing something new and something they have been waiting for which will motivate many of us to buy at these inflated prices. They know that many players see the opening of an MMO as a race to reach level cap and be among the first to see/defeat end-game content. I haven't looked much into the Zen store but what was it $35 for a custom follower, $10-$15 for one bag? Not too mention the $200 "founders pack" or whatever it's called. It truly is an accomplishment to not spend money on this game at this point.
From a psychological perspective they have the average MMO player nailed. They know that dedicated players and fans will be excited to be playing something new and something they have been waiting for which will motivate many of us to buy at these inflated prices. They know that many players see the opening of an MMO as a race to reach level cap and be among the first to see/defeat end-game content. I haven't looked much into the Zen store but what was it $35 for a custom follower, $10-$15 for one bag? Not too mention the $200 "founders pack" or whatever it's called. It truly is an accomplishment to not spend money on this game at this point.
The hardcore MMO player isnt going to last long, and neither is the casual. Just look around the boards, look at the in game chat. All the zones I see its debate about the cash shop, Perfect World's history of pathetic MMOs, etc.
Look. Here is the thing. This game is in its PEAK right now. Opening couple weeks, it'll be live.
2-3 months from now, no one will be streaming this game on twitch. It'll be the after-thought with how many MMOs release this year (23, if I'm not mistaken, from the start of 2013 to the end, with the two big Triple A titles being Elder Scrolls Online and Everquest Next). Even top MMO streamer Towelie admitted he probably wont be playing this game in a couple weeks, he just has fans buy him stuff because he wont do it, but even that isnt keeping him liking the game.
Once Elder Scrolls Online, WildStar, and Everquest Next go into Open Beta, it's over for this game for good popularity wise. But within 2-3 months, this game wont be talked about anywhere outside these forums and in-game. Which is a huge shame, many different MMO players gave this game a shot, and already within a week and days people are realizing what this game truly is and quitting.
I know there are some similar topics about the prices being too high and all that, but I mean my question more in a grander sense.
I've played around with the beta just a little bit, and the game is alright. I enjoy it, I like doing quests, and the combat is fun and all, but I took a look at the zen store, and I was flabbergasted. $35 for a companion, $6 for a re-spec, etc...it's made me not even want to play the free-to-play part.
See, I don't have a problem spending money in either the P2P model (played SWTOR and Rift for a while) or the B2P model (played GW2 for a while and currently playing Defiance). GW2 had useful things to buy for reasonable prices (an extra character slot was $5, I think, for example). And I don't - in theory - have a problem paying for stuff in the F2P model. If the base game is good, I will play it. If there are things I want from the store, I am okay buying them, just as I was in GW2. Probably even more so, since I didn't put any money down on the game itself, I feel I have at least $60 to make up for (and yes, I know I could get the Hero pack or whatever, that's an aside). The problem is, with the extravagant prices, I feel like it's not a good use of my money, and in accordance with that, I am concerned that PWE is going to basically dangle a strip of bacon in front of me the entirety of the time I play.
Essentially, I feel that the insane prices of the zen store are detracting from my desire to play even the base game. Is that crazy?
(Also, it doesn't help that I was stupid and bought a lifetime sub to STO like three years ago or whenever that game came out, and have like 10k zen from stipends sitting in a game I am never going to play again, that can never be used...)
I agree OP. I feel the same way. Im enjoying the core of the game. I WANT to stay up late to play. I feel as I further progress, the bag/bank space will become a problem. Those chests will sit unopened. I like to respec often in MMOs but I won't be able to afford it here. So yes, while Im engulfed in the dungeony feel of the game, the Zen/AD prices are constantly in the back of my mind. Will it become a problem later on? Will you be stopping to empty your "free" bags every 20 minutes. Are you stuck with the same lame spec you've had since level 1?
I feel the prices are going to chip away at the fun of the game. I am also pretty certain that in two weeks time, when I am max level and experience some of the end game, that I will be completely disguisted with the zed/ad prices and stop playing. I'll be heading back to GW2. In fact, I txt'd a RL friend of mine yesterday telling him that while Neverwinter is very fun, Im going to hit a wall (for stupid reasons) and head back to Gw2 by the end of the May. GW2 does their cash shop right. I pay for vanity, not necessity. And I WANT to support a game like that.
But, instead of complaints, here are a few suggestions:
-Make any purchases on the Zen store account wide (companions, bank space(even make the bank shared), extra bags, keys, etc)
-Remove the zen cost of respeccing. I dont care what your reasoning is Cryptic/PWE. Paying to respect doesn't belong in an MMO. You should have thought of this before you decided to make the game an MMO. If you cant give players free respects, get out of the MMO genre. You do not belong here.
-Reduce the cost of AD items significantly...
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karzak851Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I installed this game with friends about four days ago. I absolutely love the game play............uninstalled today.
I've spent just over $2k on League of Legends between mine and my son's accounts, over $400 on D3, over $500 on Battlefield Heroes, over $200 on Firefall, almost $300 on TERA when it went F2P and other titles as well. I always felt like I got my money's worth on cosmetic items and felt good about supporting the game because of reasonable prices.
The point is that when a game is good, I dump disposable income into games. It's my hobby. I will not however support the biggest cash grab of a business model I've ever seen in a game release. The zen market is the most blatant form of virtual theft I've ever seen. This company will not see a single dime from me, or another minute of game time. I know for a fact that the guys I play with are not spending a dime on this either and they usually support games monetarily, only on a slightly smaller scale than I do.
Good riddens Neverwinter. So much potential too, tsk tsk.
Peace.
Im the same as you if I get my moneys worth and the prices/cash shop is resonable I dump absurds amount of cash in it. Like LoL, Planetside 2, firefall etc. In nwo I wont spend a dime
I installed this game with friends about four days ago. I absolutely love the game play............uninstalled today.
I've spent just over $2k on League of Legends between mine and my son's accounts, over $400 on D3, over $500 on Battlefield Heroes, over $200 on Firefall, almost $300 on TERA when it went F2P and other titles as well. I always felt like I got my money's worth on cosmetic items and felt good about supporting the game because of reasonable prices.
The point is that when a game is good, I dump disposable income into games. It's my hobby. I will not however support the biggest cash grab of a business model I've ever seen in a game release. The zen market is the most blatant form of virtual theft I've ever seen. This company will not see a single dime from me, or another minute of game time. I know for a fact that the guys I play with are not spending a dime on this either and they usually support games monetarily, only on a slightly smaller scale than I do.
Good riddens Neverwinter. So much potential too, tsk tsk.
Peace.
Well said, although I am TRYING to give it a chance.
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tarrax7Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited May 2013
Completely agree with the OP. The Zen store prices for a majority of things are about double what they should be. Also, as someone who bought a Guardian Pack prior to Open Beta, I'm trying to ignore the fact that they're still offering Founder's Packs well after they said they would.
Anyway, with the current Zen pricing model the only thing I'll be spending any money on in the near future will be Preservation Wards.
Now spend $30 in Rift, and $30 in Neverwinter, and tell me which one's a better value in three months.
Or spend $45 in each, and tell me which is a better value in four months.
We can keep this up for months. Not too many, though, because within a year or two Rift will either close down or switch to F2P.
Probably Rift since it will still be actively played. Unless they put a lot of dev time into NW (Doubt it since big buyers already did their flurry of buying) I could see this game being quite Vacant as people run out of things to do/accomplish. Most MMO players now are much different than the EQ generation. They come play a lot for a month or two and burn out.
Yep prices are bad, already stopped playing mostly due to it, as did both my roommates =/
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rogerbestMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
you sick man if i was like you i would shoot myself how can you think all that money is worth on cosmetic **** when we have ppl without any money at all i hope you fall
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seariouslyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
zen prices are ridiculous along with some pay to win items.
you sick man if i was like you i would shoot myself how can you think all that money is worth on cosmetic **** when we have ppl without any money at all i hope you fall
Anyone who uses disposable income on a hobby is obviously sick. Think of all of the golfers just throwing money away to chase a little white ball around while there are people with no money! They should all shoot themselves!
Anyway, I'm already back to playing League of Legends, this game was uninstalled taking up valuable SSD space. I just want to come back here and check these forums to watch the game die.
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jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I think the prices are fine. I think it's a fun game and well worth the support. Then again I tip my foundry authors too. Sad to see so many people unappreciative of a great game and yet are willing to shell out $50+ a pop for garbage single player games.
I know these game companies are just out to steal all our money. **** them for adding fun to my life!!!
Same. It's like I want to buy stuff and have a blast in this game. It's such a sour taste though that I can't help but just turn away disgusted. 80$ for a mount and companion... God. Especially in a game with so little use for a mount and the companions act brain-dead. It's not a huge deal though. Wildstar and Elder Scrolls Online are on the way. Definitely some cool stuff to look forward to in both of those regards. I'll definitely be knocking back the $$ in those games. Give me a fully unlocked game with a sub over this nickle and diming (can you even call 80$ nickle and diming?) any day. Much easier on the wallet.
Prices are fine. It's only like a grand to fully gear yourself up end game. The whiners are just poor people who can't bother to dedicate their lives for farming in a game for a couple years, they can't even be asked to play Auction House The Game. It's disgusting.
The prices are ridiculously high. I'm not saying they aren't affordable for some people, but affording something doesn't mean the price is reasonable. $40.00 for a virtual mount?! That's so far out of touch with reality that it hurts my brain to try and understand. Lower the prices for virtual merchandise in this game, and others, and I and many others would likely be tempted to buy more often. As it stands, with these prices, I will not buy Zen, it's just not worth it.
I dont get why people care about stuff they wont buy...
Even if they sold a mount for 20000 dollar.. Why would you even care a sigle tiny bit about how other people spend their money. The prices cant be to high or to low as every person decided wether or not its worth it.
If you think its not worth it.. Tough luck dude.. Thats life!
Im happy there are people who do think its worth it cause they keep the game free for those greedy players who expect everything to be just like a subscription game except for no subscription costs.
And people saying its pay to win..
Sure its pay to win.. Except he maximal you can "win" is some mount speed and a cosmeticly better pet which is overruled by passive green pets anyway.
As much as people blame the cashshop.. A game never fails because of the cashshop.. A game fails because of the way players react to it.
I purchased some extra character slots, bags, vault space and a few keys.
And although I would like to get a few companions and mounts for some diversity, I personally will not pay the prices for those items.
I can do without, so it's no big deal.
I enjoy playing lots and lots of alts so unless they have some "all character on account" companions and mounts than I will not be going for the $20, $30 or $35 items.
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
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Now spend $30 in Rift, and $30 in Neverwinter, and tell me which one's a better value in three months.
Or spend $45 in each, and tell me which is a better value in four months.
We can keep this up for months. Not too many, though, because within a year or two Rift will either close down or switch to F2P.
According to my industry contacts, the statistics show that people who complain about prices being too high on the forums statistically stay in the game longer than average, and spend more money than average.
Reading this makes me want to buy more Zen...
I know they have to make profit to continue to exist as a company and continue development, but when I hear, just for example, someone like Dean Hall, the lead developer of DayZ say things like "I just made a game that I wanted to play, that I wanted to see be made" and then I see that game become wildly successful with a highly anticipated stand-alone on the way, I feel like the gaming industry needs more developers who have this mindset of passion, imagination, and creativity over profit. When a company puts profit over all of those things you get games like this that suffer from this ever present and integrated zen market advertisement. Bottom line for me, it cheapens the game.
They are also more popular with supermodels, drive expensive sports cars and have 1.2933 yachts per capita.
They are, in fact, the most interesting players in the world.
Their revenues over the last 12 months are something like 3 billion. They pay a significant share dividend to their stockholders. Yeah, they're really driving customers out the door with these prices.
I'll trust somebody's wallet more than their words, and I'll trust PW's financials more than forum angst as an indicator of customer satisfaction.
This. Thank you.
I had no idea PWE had so many games until I checked out NVW. As mentioned before, I was a founder/lifetime subscriber to STO, which was Cryptic at the beginning (later acquired by PWE). It seems weird to me that one company would run 11 concurrent MMOs and have any time to actually develop any of them, or give any of them the attention they properly deserve. Blizzard runs one (D3 doesn't count, it's not an MMO), Trion runs 2. NCSoft runs 6, but those are broken up into sub-developers (The GW2 and Lineage people are not the same, for example).
I know there's no way the STO team is made up of the same people who run NVW, but a company with 11 concurrent games - which should really have competing clientbases, for a large part, must have trouble prioritizing, I would think.
It's probably because we want to spend money. We just think the prices are over inflated, and that they would make more money from us if they lowered them.
edit: I foolishly bought $20 worth of zen before I checked the prices of things in the zen store. I will not pay a dollar more unless there is some kind of sale of zen or lower prices on items. I will take my money to another game, the industry is flooded with MMOs. This is not a threat, just a fact. We do not feel like our money is well spent here.
The hardcore MMO player isnt going to last long, and neither is the casual. Just look around the boards, look at the in game chat. All the zones I see its debate about the cash shop, Perfect World's history of pathetic MMOs, etc.
Look. Here is the thing. This game is in its PEAK right now. Opening couple weeks, it'll be live.
2-3 months from now, no one will be streaming this game on twitch. It'll be the after-thought with how many MMOs release this year (23, if I'm not mistaken, from the start of 2013 to the end, with the two big Triple A titles being Elder Scrolls Online and Everquest Next). Even top MMO streamer Towelie admitted he probably wont be playing this game in a couple weeks, he just has fans buy him stuff because he wont do it, but even that isnt keeping him liking the game.
Once Elder Scrolls Online, WildStar, and Everquest Next go into Open Beta, it's over for this game for good popularity wise. But within 2-3 months, this game wont be talked about anywhere outside these forums and in-game. Which is a huge shame, many different MMO players gave this game a shot, and already within a week and days people are realizing what this game truly is and quitting.
Liberated Borg -Captain USS Solstice
Member of Starfleet Borg Task Force - Tactical Unit
I agree OP. I feel the same way. Im enjoying the core of the game. I WANT to stay up late to play. I feel as I further progress, the bag/bank space will become a problem. Those chests will sit unopened. I like to respec often in MMOs but I won't be able to afford it here. So yes, while Im engulfed in the dungeony feel of the game, the Zen/AD prices are constantly in the back of my mind. Will it become a problem later on? Will you be stopping to empty your "free" bags every 20 minutes. Are you stuck with the same lame spec you've had since level 1?
I feel the prices are going to chip away at the fun of the game. I am also pretty certain that in two weeks time, when I am max level and experience some of the end game, that I will be completely disguisted with the zed/ad prices and stop playing. I'll be heading back to GW2. In fact, I txt'd a RL friend of mine yesterday telling him that while Neverwinter is very fun, Im going to hit a wall (for stupid reasons) and head back to Gw2 by the end of the May. GW2 does their cash shop right. I pay for vanity, not necessity. And I WANT to support a game like that.
-Make any purchases on the Zen store account wide (companions, bank space(even make the bank shared), extra bags, keys, etc)
-Remove the zen cost of respeccing. I dont care what your reasoning is Cryptic/PWE. Paying to respect doesn't belong in an MMO. You should have thought of this before you decided to make the game an MMO. If you cant give players free respects, get out of the MMO genre. You do not belong here.
-Reduce the cost of AD items significantly...
Im the same as you if I get my moneys worth and the prices/cash shop is resonable I dump absurds amount of cash in it. Like LoL, Planetside 2, firefall etc. In nwo I wont spend a dime
Well said, although I am TRYING to give it a chance.
Anyway, with the current Zen pricing model the only thing I'll be spending any money on in the near future will be Preservation Wards.
Probably Rift since it will still be actively played. Unless they put a lot of dev time into NW (Doubt it since big buyers already did their flurry of buying) I could see this game being quite Vacant as people run out of things to do/accomplish. Most MMO players now are much different than the EQ generation. They come play a lot for a month or two and burn out.
Anyone who uses disposable income on a hobby is obviously sick. Think of all of the golfers just throwing money away to chase a little white ball around while there are people with no money! They should all shoot themselves!
Anyway, I'm already back to playing League of Legends, this game was uninstalled taking up valuable SSD space. I just want to come back here and check these forums to watch the game die.
I know these game companies are just out to steal all our money. **** them for adding fun to my life!!!
I dont get why people care about stuff they wont buy...
Even if they sold a mount for 20000 dollar.. Why would you even care a sigle tiny bit about how other people spend their money. The prices cant be to high or to low as every person decided wether or not its worth it.
If you think its not worth it.. Tough luck dude.. Thats life!
Im happy there are people who do think its worth it cause they keep the game free for those greedy players who expect everything to be just like a subscription game except for no subscription costs.
And people saying its pay to win..
Sure its pay to win.. Except he maximal you can "win" is some mount speed and a cosmeticly better pet which is overruled by passive green pets anyway.
As much as people blame the cashshop.. A game never fails because of the cashshop.. A game fails because of the way players react to it.
Elf Control Wizard - Dragon
And although I would like to get a few companions and mounts for some diversity, I personally will not pay the prices for those items.
I can do without, so it's no big deal.
I enjoy playing lots and lots of alts so unless they have some "all character on account" companions and mounts than I will not be going for the $20, $30 or $35 items.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore