This is not open for debate... Who cares if someone is 60; its none of your business or effects you in anyway. The problem was exploited maps... Not maps with 50 Ogres in it (thats 100% legit.) But a <removed exploit details> Like the guy above me said; lvling is trivial. I can cap with Vanilla content in 1 day and 10-12 hours. The Foundry exploit is around 15 hours with CW... Maybe even faster. Again nothing huge in advantage there... Its just time.
Your real issue is that those <removed exploit details> dropped tons of Gold and Items... Again who cares most of it was taken out of game from vendors prob not trading. (But that is still the only valid complaint; whether I agree of not.)
Now they could have given <removed exploit details> invincibility; like lots of games, and or fixed the bugged traps for one.
Instead they Nerf the foundry's themselves? This is a bad thing not a good thing in any way. And this will lead to policing of the content...Something they should be in control of. Your already had 100s QQing about anyone grinding... I mean are you kidding me?
And to the guy who says the only people running foundries should be for fun <removed insult>; plz tell us how to play more...
Ive never seen so many people looking for group content before... Let people farm if they want.. You can do the same thing ANYWHERE in the game.
Remove the exploiting map makers and problem solved... The flag system was also a good step; cept for your going to get <removed insult> sending you exploit warnings because they don't know the difference. Maybe if anything the review time by staff should take longer.
Im ok with it taking a week to activate if it means things can go back to how they were. Because this is nothing more then a shell of what it was...
Instead they crippled the foundry... Who is going to run foundry at 75%+ xp reduction to rest of world (even less in party) or the fact items drops are reduced also. 60s will have no incentive to even bother. This is a shame... Its merely a supplement now; there goes the magic of endless content...
Again... this was a huge part of this game. The incentives other then for the hell of it are none now...
I am worried because this is a sign of how they plan on handling things.
They should have established the flagging system, and Banned Exploiting map makers... I dont even care about the players. They did nothing but take advantage of what the game allowed to happen. (They didn't see that coming?)
Then give it a lil while and take a look at balancing more... This was to much at once.
Im not QQing, its really upsetting and takes a nic at part of the magic of this game.
And no, even with the daily incentive for AD its not enough to raise the participation to where it was at. It was almost an entire game in itself. Now it will just be people poking their head in or bored to death. (Other then the daily.)
Im sorry it just feels the exploiters got free 60s and the average players get the shaft for it... That makes no sense.
Should have done the flagging and banning of creators first then looked into the rest... not all at once; that was foolish.
1) Prevent people from making exploitative missions.
2) Prevent people from getting REWARDS from exploitative missions.
One of those solutions prevents people from doing something. The other simply doesn't REWARD them for doing it. They picked the solution that allows greater player freedom. 99% of non-exploit quests won't be affected. The other 1% will get tweaked until it's 0.5%, and then 0.1%, and then 0.01%, and so on until all we're talking about are a few outliers whose authors will figure out how to fix it.
If you're not doing Foundry quests because of this, then you are either misinformed, or part of the problem.
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divinehopeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 48
No one should take my first post as complaining please. I run the foundry missions for the story, hence why I wanted to make one. My intended use was never as a gear or exp grind. My main point is the fear that if people stop running foundry missions or run them rarely, then people will stop making any or very few of them. Then there will be no new stories or very few anyway, for those of us who run them for the story. I could care less about nerfs, they happen in every MMO I have played since 1999 when my journey began. People complain about the nerf, get used to it, end of story until the next nerf. I really never care about exploiters either, they usually burn themselves out and run out of stuff to do and move to another game anyway.
If you create them for the story then there's nothing to worry about. These forum posts won't reflect the majority of the players. I can't speak for everyone but in my social network about 80% play the foundry for the story, I bet most D&D players also play foundry for the story and it's those that will stick around with the game.
its NOt stamina its skill you can still quest its just based on time if your lvling so fast its obviously a exploit you cant do dmg anymore or much less or it could be some other penalty i havent thought of longer cooldowns,
heck couldnt they limit the amount of mobs per square virtual meter? limit it to say 5 or you could put a cap on ae spells hit number
Okay, just did a Foundry mission. Level 25, somewhat story-based (not the most amazing story, but it was a new one I was trying out. Not every one will be a winner), so it had some NPCs to talk to, some traveling, decent amount of combat (typical 3-4 normal guys, or 2 normals & an enforcer/officer groups). Not just a bunch of monsters summoned repeatedly in a room.
Got items (1 white, 7 green, 1 blue :eek:), 2 kits, 2 potions, 2 runes, 2 ID scrolls, and a green crafting resource. Oh, and about half a level of xp.
I'm not seeing "the Foundry is dead" here. Not sure what else to say. /shrug
I'm seeing the same thing. I did see however, a great reduction in zone spam, and impishly, a increase in the WTF statements that put me in mind of handing someone a tv remote with no instructions.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Still trying to find a reference to AD in my AD&D Manuals.
On a different note. I don't see the problem with the foundry leveling.. I managed to get to 60 in 1,5 day just by speedquesting the normal content. The leveling in this game is not tedious nor is it time consuming. What does it matter if someone reaches 60 really fast or not, it's their choice. If someone wants to level using the foundry let them, if someone wants to speedquest let them, if someone wants to read every single lore in the game and listen to all the quests, THEN LET THEM.
Having more level 60 players is only good, it will shorten the queues and make things overall easier at the max level. There's still tons of lowbies leveling using the normal means, I doubt the majority are doing foundry speedleveling. I bet most of you all will say "but they won't learn their class at all", newsflash, there's tons of people that level through 1-60 the normal way and still doesn't know how to play their class, nothing much will change.
All they did was create negative pr by banning people for playing their game. I even remember an interview with a dev where the interviewer asked how they will deal with foundry farming/leveling/exploits. The interviewer especially asked what would happen if someone created a map where they could kill mobs without being hit. The dev said, that's okay, the players all killed the mob in the end so it's all okay, they earned the reward. The dev also went on about how the system would calculate the rewards etc so it would all be fine. Now, almost two weeks after release they are banning people for it.. Way to go Cryptic.
Im sorry it just feels the exploiters got free 60s and the average players get the shaft for it... That makes no sense.
Um...... what's so great about being level 60?
Besides being blocked from some dungeons, buggy PvP, minimal knowledge of the class you just "played", having bragging rights because you "beat the game" in less time (and probably less enjoyment) than a weekend rental, and having a primary end-game goal of grinding for gear........please enlighten me why I should be in a hurry to reach cap. How did all the average players get shafted? Seems the other way around, to me.
By the way, as someone eloquently put it in another thread, "For every exploit map that gets banned, two more pop up disguised as 'legit'." They give more ideas to people on how to get away with questionable content. And what happens when a free account gets banned? Can you guess? I don't approve of exploits or use them, but just like with censorship issues, you have to take the bad with the good. The only way to truly remove all exploits from the foundry is to remove the foundry itself.
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bojangl3sMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
I hope the foundry nerfs were simple a temporary fix to a serious problem, which SHOULD be addressed by patching mob AI to reset aggro if they can't reach their target. That's a simple mechanic that's been in almost every MMO since 2004, I don't know why Cryptic didn't get the memo.
In either case, it's a patchable problem, they just needed to do something in the meantime since it was getting out of hand. I understand that. Where I fail to see the progress is if they believe this is a permanent solution. It is a lazy (albeit needed) fix and really diminishes the ROI for people dedicated to foundry campaigns. Of course, those who just want story will have their stories. That is besides the point, we are discussing XP/item rewards from foundries.
Yep, also a CoH vet, this is not a good nerf for them in the long run.
As am I a CoX vet. However (and I may well be misremembering and, therefore, wrong) I thought that Cryptic still owned the CoX IP when the Mission Architect went live. If I am incorrect ... please accept my apologies.
Um...... what's so great about being level 60?
Besides being blocked from some dungeons, buggy PvP, minimal knowledge of the class you just "played", having bragging rights because you "beat the game" in less time (and probably less enjoyment) than a weekend rental, and having a primary end-game goal of grinding for gear........please enlighten me why I should be in a hurry to reach cap. How did all the average players get shafted? Seems the other way around, to me.
All I can say is Wut? is this what they call trolling...?
People exploiting to 60 not only got 60 but got rich; they even get the benefit of farming large amounts of AD right away. Were not talking about grinding. Were talking about fish in a barrel; things I cant even mention because they will just get censored... They could sit their repeating the exploit after 60 and since the loot and money scales to 60 then the rewards were insane... Im still confused, is this a troll Because i pointed out nothing about 60 being good or even unfair in my post lol, lvling in this game is trivial; doesn't even matter... I don't care who is 60 or not... Maybe go read it again~?
Wut does 60s being shafted or dealing with buggy content even have to do with this entire post...lol.
The Avg players did get shafted...
The player base as a whole got the shaft with foundries now... -85% xp rate and -DR... All because of a few hundred or thousand exploiters. ...AND UMmm No one got banned.
They clearly said in PN what the % reductions were... That's why people are getting all crazy even tho not much testing done. The Q is the xp is horrible and the drops now... Thats how they got shafted. Ive also heard people say drops are still good. I wouldn't even make this comment based off the drastic difference between to much or to lil in such a large player base... But I can because its in the notes lol. It was not an overall good decision... It was a bad decision that will do more dmg over time; not less.
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necrofobicMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 46Arc User
edited May 2013
i shall name this "foundry gate", we need some investigation into why they didnt just 1. suspend the makers of certain maps (after a fair warning ofc) 2. add a check before any map goes into the "for review" section
im baffled really, theres more than 1 way to skin a cat, this was one of the bad ways
That's what gets me... Its like killing the patient just to get rid of cancer. This will do damage to the overall possible unlimited usage potential of the foundry for every possible play style of people in this have; it was a brilliant idea...
This will turn it into something that will only be done for Beeps n giggles (eventually). It was a mistake.
Yes many people do it for the story, but please keep it to yourself... You can see endless comments in reviews about how it was to much reading bla bla...I can guarantee your not even near a majority... Stop telling people how to play. Most you guys sent in complaints because of lvling speed. (again trivial in this game *sad) You didn't even know about the exploits...
Um...... what's so great about being level 60?
Besides being blocked from some dungeons, buggy PvP, minimal knowledge of the class you just "played", having bragging rights because you "beat the game" in less time (and probably less enjoyment) than a weekend rental, and having a primary end-game goal of grinding for gear........please enlighten me why I should be in a hurry to reach cap. How did all the average players get shafted? Seems the other way around, to me.
All I can say is Wut? is this what they call trolling...?
People exploiting to 60 not only got 60 but got rich; they even get the benefit of farming large amounts of AD right away. Were not talking about grinding. Were talking about fish in a barrel; things I cant even mention because they will just get censored... They could sit their repeating the exploit after 60 and since the loot and money scales to 60 then the rewards were insane... Im still confused, is this a troll Because i pointed out nothing about 60 being good or even unfair in my post lol, lvling in this game is trivial; doesn't even matter... I don't care who is 60 or not... Maybe go read it again~?
Wut does 60s being shafted even have to do with this entire post...lol.
The Avg players did get shafted...
The player base as a whole got the shaft with foundries now... -85% xp rate and -DR... All because of a few hundred or thousand exploiters. ...AND UMmm No one got banned.
They clearly said in PN what the % reductions were... That's why people are getting all crazy even tho not much testing done. The Q is the xp is horrible and the drops now... Thats how they got shafted. Ive also heard people say drops are still good. I wouldn't even make this comment based off the drastic difference between to much or to lil in such a large player base... But I can because its in the notes lol. It was not an overall good decision... It was a bad design that will do more dmg over time; not less.
No, that's not what they call "trolling". I was just asking a dumb question about the bold-lettered quote on YOUR post, and you answered it. I didn't realize 60's were getting so much AD through the exploit rather than PWE's honesty-laden cash shop (that's called "sarcasm", by the way). If you're still confused about what trolling is, you can always Google it, too.
Also, the meaningful content of my posts usually have to do with the topic at hand: Foundry nerfs. So when you say, "Wut does 60s being shafted even have to do with this entire post...lol." obviously YOU didn't read MY "entire post". Touche.
Nonsense aside, though, if you ask me (which nobody ever does), the current foundry XP rate should've been implemented back in BW1. Leveling to cap, even without exploits, is less than 2 days? Cryptic, please! I feel like I accomplished just as much by setting Minesweeper on 1 bomb.
I am also a CoX vet and the exact same thing happened with Architect. XP was only brought back to level after the CoX devs had overhauled their xp system and put in safeguard software to stop exploiters from levelling too fast.
The first thing i thought of when I heard about the foundry was, wow people are gonna exploit the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> outta this.....how was this overlooked?
They already addressed this issue in STO's foundry missions. Each character has a limit on the amount of loot they can get in foundry missions over a certain period of time, and they took steps to prevent people from doing massive farming of capital ships for exploitative levels of experience gain.
I'd venture a guess that the total removal of loot and experience from the current foundry missions is only temporary, until they can get more permanent measures into place.
With the possibility of a more robust foundry system, recently developed for Neverwinter, being implemented in Star Trek Online and Champions Online, most of us will be hoping for those more permanent and logical measures being implemented in the foundry.
The only reason you should be running foundry missions is to have fun. If your running them for uber experience then your just attempting to exploit the game.
QUESTION!
Ima running this mish everyday called WORK for uber monies am I exploiting my boss?
( Sad thing is my boss is also my daughter, would actually love to see her nerfed a little she's bigger than me :< )
They already addressed this issue in STO's foundry missions. Each character has a limit on the amount of loot they can get in foundry missions over a certain period of time, and they took steps to prevent people from doing massive farming of capital ships for exploitative levels of experience gain.
I'd venture a guess that the total removal of loot and experience from the current foundry missions is only temporary, until they can get more permanent measures into place.
With the possibility of a more robust foundry system, recently developed for Neverwinter, being implemented in Star Trek Online and Champions Online, most of us will be hoping for those more permanent and logical measures being implemented in the foundry.
I agree. Just place some budget caps based that we have to follow when making content. So the developers and players need to find that good line that we can agree on. Maybe allow the players to pick what they want...
Option 1:
10% of level of experience
2-5 potions and scrolls
1-3 pieces of gear
Option 2
5% of level of experience
5-10 potions and scrolls
3-5 greens
1-3 blues
These are just random numbers but the system can much more fair than what it already is. The devs just need to rethink and put their coding to work instead of changing loot and experience rates.
My opinion is nerfs is just a lazy way to handle thing in all mmo's. This game is too new to be nerfing things. Should be adding features, not taking away features. Class balancing could be called nerfs but that is expected and always needed.
I personally don't see what the issue was, I never used it but who cares if someone rushes to 60. It really shouldn't affect anyone but that person, they aren't receiving anything more then someone who quested their way to 60, so they did it faster /shrug doesn't affect my life in anyway.
This ridiculous gamebreaking nerf is going to kill any future Neverwinter had. The exploiters have probably already quit playing, since in their minds, the game only exists to increment a number to the maximum. It doesn't matter how much loot they got or that they got to 60 in 6 hours or whatever, they were going to leave the game anyway since their only goal is to get max level anyway.
People who want to have fun while leveling (or, *GASP*, level alts) and experience the awesome stuff Foundry authors have to share *WHILE* getting appropriate rewards are screwed, and this can only result in the Foundry being a ghost town.
Which means most people will just grind the Cryptic areas, but as we all well know, no MMO developer can produce enough content for players, so those players, lacking any option that isn't abysmally poor reward for effort (the current state of the Foundry) will simply quit as well. The Foundry will be a ghost town, but the developer zones and content will be even worse.
This has completely destroyed any longevity of the game and destroyed the entire point of the Foundry, which is to keep players playing fresh content when the developer content is stale.
Good job.
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tthorlordMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited May 2013
there are plenty of ways to fix the foundry, Who says that the current nerf is permanant but rather a placeholder until they can figure out something better.
I see there are two types of EXP Grinders.
- Those that let you kill monsters without fighting them
- Those that let you fight a bunch of big creates one at a time.
Here are some ideas on how to remove the grinders and let legitimate quests have decent drops and exp:
- If a mob doesn't start an attack animation before it is killed it grants no exp or loot.
- If a mob doesn't move between birth and death it grants no exp or loot.
- Mobs only grant exp if it has lost at least 80% of HP via player damage.
- If the player hasn't moved in over 90 seconds he cannot earn EXP from the kill.
- If the map contains over 50% of one creature they do not grant EXP
1) Prevent people from making exploitative missions.
2) Prevent people from getting REWARDS from exploitative missions.
One of those solutions prevents people from doing something. The other simply doesn't REWARD them for doing it. They picked the solution that allows greater player freedom. 99% of non-exploit quests won't be affected. The other 1% will get tweaked until it's 0.5%, and then 0.1%, and then 0.01%, and so on until all we're talking about are a few outliers whose authors will figure out how to fix it.
If you're not doing Foundry quests because of this, then you are either misinformed, or part of the problem.
I would like clarification, if I may?
Does your (and by default, Cryptic's) definition of "exploit" mean "breaks the risk vs. reward ratio" or does it mean something else?
If it does mean something else, please define exploit so the player base may know without a shadow of a doubt what is and what is not an "exploit"....because sure as rain falls from the sky, someone will say "But I didn't KNOW that was an exploit!".
Also, you said nothing about farms. While I don't much care for farming, I do realize it is a valid and legitimate playstyle. Heck, dungeons are farms. Cloak Tower is the only one I've done so far, but I do realize people farm the heck out of that, much less the other dungeons in the game. What is the difference if someone makes a farm mission in the Foundry rather than farm the content provided? Does Cryptic plan on nerfing XP gains in THEIR content, seeing as how there's farmable maps and missions in THEIR content? If not(heck, I'm willing to bet short and curlies Cryptic isn't going down THAT road) then why bother with farms in the foundry? (I'm not arguing for exploits, here. There is a BIG difference between legitimate risk-vs-reward ratio farms and what was done in the game.)
I'll wait for an answer. Also, I'd like an official moderator or developer response, please. Not forumites blithely spouting support or condemnation.
there are plenty of ways to fix the foundry, Who says that the current nerf is permanant but rather a placeholder until they can figure out something better.
I see there are two types of EXP Grinders.
- Those that let you kill monsters without fighting them
- Those that let you fight a bunch of big creates one at a time.
Here are some ideas on how to remove the grinders and let legitimate quests have decent drops and exp:
- If a mob doesn't start an attack animation before it is killed it grants no exp or loot.
Happens in normal game play. Nerf that too.
- If a mob doesn't move between birth and death it grants no exp or loot.
Also happens in normal game play. Nerf that too.
- Mobs only grant exp if it has lost at least 80% of HP via player damage.
Seriously. The one legitimate tactic you've come up with. If it's not players doing the damage, then WHAT IS? Exploit, that's what.
Unless you're forgetting about henchmen.
- If the player hasn't moved in over 90 seconds he cannot earn EXP from the kill.
Umm....also happens in the game. Nerf game mission xp too.
- If the map contains over 50% of one creature they do not grant EXP
Seriously. Cloak Tower is all orcs. You suggest nerfing the xp and rewards in that dungeon?
I've seen virtually all of the above happen in game. Specifically, one dungeon. Cloak Tower. I've been on teams that just MELT mobs without having to chase any of them down, nor players much move while attacking. That alone negates almost every single one of your "solutions", good sir. Tank run in and round up the room, then come back and start blocking. TR and CW melt the masses, wash, rinse, repeat. If that's not farming activity, I don't know what is.
What I am drawing from all the whine and complaining about farms (not exploits. Those are bad.) is that they "detract from game play". Except......they're already in the game. Legitimate. Made for us to run to our hearts content, until we outlevel one and move to the next. With the Foundry, that doesn't have to happen. One farm to rule them all, one farm to guide them. One farm to win them all, and in the dorkness bind them. The farm scales with the level. It seems to me that what most of the authors are really upset about is that farms are more popular among the player base than their stories, and that's a more honest and legitimate complaint than "they're not playing the game the right way". HOWEVER, this does not give the storytellers the right to deny the farmers and grinders their enjoyment any more than those same grinders and farmers have the right to deny the storytellers fun.
What Cryptic SHOULD(and needs to do, IMHO) do is to find some other solution to this conundrum. Think forward with it and try to predict what players will do. Heck, if they can solve this problem, then they've done something PARAGON STUDIOS couldn't. And that company pioneered UGC. So that's my challenge to you game developers in Cryptic studios. Do something that even the great City of Heroes could not. Best the UGC beast without alienating either side of the fence. Because if you can't....then the Foundry is doomed to the same fate that befell the Mission Architect system.
I'm nowhere near level 60 yet, but this is what I've seen.
1) I'm getting reasonable XP from quests that consist of more than killing Ogres in a pen.
2) The one or two "farm" maps I've tried gave me XP at a similar rate to combat-heavy story-driven quests. If I wanted to think a little less and just grind, I don't particularly see why that's a *functional* problem with the Forge. Penned in ogres was a big problem. I don't thinf they should've nerfed anything but that.
I personally don't see what the issue was, I never used it but who cares if someone rushes to 60. It really shouldn't affect anyone but that person, they aren't receiving anything more then someone who quested their way to 60, so they did it faster /shrug doesn't affect my life in anyway.
I wish I could rush to 60. The questing is sooo boring:(
Here's to hoping the foundry xp nerfs are a temporary solution, not a permanent fix. The foundry is still pretty cool though. I've done a few quests already and the story telling in them is quite good
The only reason you should be running foundry missions is to have fun. If your running them for uber experience then your just attempting to exploit the game.
Incorrect, sir. The Foundry is used as an alternative leveling lane for alts, or at least it COULD have been before Cryptic 'fixed' it.
Incorrect, sir. The Foundry is used as an alternative leveling lane for alts, or at least it COULD have been before Cryptic 'fixed' it.
Not to mention, that most MMO players (not I didnt say all) are notorious for playing what is efficient, but not necessarily what is fun. You could have Disney world mixed with Universal studios with a touch of Willy Wonka's factory for questing, but if it takes significantly longer that Doldrum grinding, most people are going to go with doldrum grinding. Take away the rewards, and frankly, most players wont bother with them until 60, if at all.
Comments
Perfect post, and that's exactly how I feel.
1) Prevent people from making exploitative missions.
2) Prevent people from getting REWARDS from exploitative missions.
One of those solutions prevents people from doing something. The other simply doesn't REWARD them for doing it. They picked the solution that allows greater player freedom. 99% of non-exploit quests won't be affected. The other 1% will get tweaked until it's 0.5%, and then 0.1%, and then 0.01%, and so on until all we're talking about are a few outliers whose authors will figure out how to fix it.
If you're not doing Foundry quests because of this, then you are either misinformed, or part of the problem.
Not really, its a small amt.
If you create them for the story then there's nothing to worry about. These forum posts won't reflect the majority of the players. I can't speak for everyone but in my social network about 80% play the foundry for the story, I bet most D&D players also play foundry for the story and it's those that will stick around with the game.
heck couldnt they limit the amount of mobs per square virtual meter? limit it to say 5 or you could put a cap on ae spells hit number
I'm seeing the same thing. I did see however, a great reduction in zone spam, and impishly, a increase in the WTF statements that put me in mind of handing someone a tv remote with no instructions.
Having more level 60 players is only good, it will shorten the queues and make things overall easier at the max level. There's still tons of lowbies leveling using the normal means, I doubt the majority are doing foundry speedleveling. I bet most of you all will say "but they won't learn their class at all", newsflash, there's tons of people that level through 1-60 the normal way and still doesn't know how to play their class, nothing much will change.
All they did was create negative pr by banning people for playing their game. I even remember an interview with a dev where the interviewer asked how they will deal with foundry farming/leveling/exploits. The interviewer especially asked what would happen if someone created a map where they could kill mobs without being hit. The dev said, that's okay, the players all killed the mob in the end so it's all okay, they earned the reward. The dev also went on about how the system would calculate the rewards etc so it would all be fine. Now, almost two weeks after release they are banning people for it.. Way to go Cryptic.
Um...... what's so great about being level 60?
Besides being blocked from some dungeons, buggy PvP, minimal knowledge of the class you just "played", having bragging rights because you "beat the game" in less time (and probably less enjoyment) than a weekend rental, and having a primary end-game goal of grinding for gear........please enlighten me why I should be in a hurry to reach cap. How did all the average players get shafted? Seems the other way around, to me.
By the way, as someone eloquently put it in another thread, "For every exploit map that gets banned, two more pop up disguised as 'legit'." They give more ideas to people on how to get away with questionable content. And what happens when a free account gets banned? Can you guess? I don't approve of exploits or use them, but just like with censorship issues, you have to take the bad with the good. The only way to truly remove all exploits from the foundry is to remove the foundry itself.
In either case, it's a patchable problem, they just needed to do something in the meantime since it was getting out of hand. I understand that. Where I fail to see the progress is if they believe this is a permanent solution. It is a lazy (albeit needed) fix and really diminishes the ROI for people dedicated to foundry campaigns. Of course, those who just want story will have their stories. That is besides the point, we are discussing XP/item rewards from foundries.
As am I a CoX vet. However (and I may well be misremembering and, therefore, wrong) I thought that Cryptic still owned the CoX IP when the Mission Architect went live. If I am incorrect ... please accept my apologies.
Lottie
im baffled really, theres more than 1 way to skin a cat, this was one of the bad ways
This will turn it into something that will only be done for Beeps n giggles (eventually). It was a mistake.
Yes many people do it for the story, but please keep it to yourself... You can see endless comments in reviews about how it was to much reading bla bla...I can guarantee your not even near a majority... Stop telling people how to play. Most you guys sent in complaints because of lvling speed. (again trivial in this game *sad) You didn't even know about the exploits...
I'd venture a guess that the total removal of loot and experience from the current foundry missions is only temporary, until they can get more permanent measures into place.
With the possibility of a more robust foundry system, recently developed for Neverwinter, being implemented in Star Trek Online and Champions Online, most of us will be hoping for those more permanent and logical measures being implemented in the foundry.
QUESTION!
Ima running this mish everyday called WORK for uber monies am I exploiting my boss?
( Sad thing is my boss is also my daughter, would actually love to see her nerfed a little she's bigger than me :< )
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
I agree. Just place some budget caps based that we have to follow when making content. So the developers and players need to find that good line that we can agree on. Maybe allow the players to pick what they want...
Option 1:
10% of level of experience
2-5 potions and scrolls
1-3 pieces of gear
Option 2
5% of level of experience
5-10 potions and scrolls
3-5 greens
1-3 blues
These are just random numbers but the system can much more fair than what it already is. The devs just need to rethink and put their coding to work instead of changing loot and experience rates.
My opinion is nerfs is just a lazy way to handle thing in all mmo's. This game is too new to be nerfing things. Should be adding features, not taking away features. Class balancing could be called nerfs but that is expected and always needed.
People who want to have fun while leveling (or, *GASP*, level alts) and experience the awesome stuff Foundry authors have to share *WHILE* getting appropriate rewards are screwed, and this can only result in the Foundry being a ghost town.
Which means most people will just grind the Cryptic areas, but as we all well know, no MMO developer can produce enough content for players, so those players, lacking any option that isn't abysmally poor reward for effort (the current state of the Foundry) will simply quit as well. The Foundry will be a ghost town, but the developer zones and content will be even worse.
This has completely destroyed any longevity of the game and destroyed the entire point of the Foundry, which is to keep players playing fresh content when the developer content is stale.
Good job.
I see there are two types of EXP Grinders.
- Those that let you kill monsters without fighting them
- Those that let you fight a bunch of big creates one at a time.
Here are some ideas on how to remove the grinders and let legitimate quests have decent drops and exp:
- If a mob doesn't start an attack animation before it is killed it grants no exp or loot.
- If a mob doesn't move between birth and death it grants no exp or loot.
- Mobs only grant exp if it has lost at least 80% of HP via player damage.
- If the player hasn't moved in over 90 seconds he cannot earn EXP from the kill.
- If the map contains over 50% of one creature they do not grant EXP
I would like clarification, if I may?
Does your (and by default, Cryptic's) definition of "exploit" mean "breaks the risk vs. reward ratio" or does it mean something else?
If it does mean something else, please define exploit so the player base may know without a shadow of a doubt what is and what is not an "exploit"....because sure as rain falls from the sky, someone will say "But I didn't KNOW that was an exploit!".
Also, you said nothing about farms. While I don't much care for farming, I do realize it is a valid and legitimate playstyle. Heck, dungeons are farms. Cloak Tower is the only one I've done so far, but I do realize people farm the heck out of that, much less the other dungeons in the game. What is the difference if someone makes a farm mission in the Foundry rather than farm the content provided? Does Cryptic plan on nerfing XP gains in THEIR content, seeing as how there's farmable maps and missions in THEIR content? If not(heck, I'm willing to bet short and curlies Cryptic isn't going down THAT road) then why bother with farms in the foundry? (I'm not arguing for exploits, here. There is a BIG difference between legitimate risk-vs-reward ratio farms and what was done in the game.)
I'll wait for an answer. Also, I'd like an official moderator or developer response, please. Not forumites blithely spouting support or condemnation.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Here are some ideas on how to remove the grinders and let legitimate quests have decent drops and exp:
Happens in normal game play. Nerf that too.
Also happens in normal game play. Nerf that too.
Seriously. The one legitimate tactic you've come up with. If it's not players doing the damage, then WHAT IS? Exploit, that's what.
Unless you're forgetting about henchmen.
Umm....also happens in the game. Nerf game mission xp too.
Seriously. Cloak Tower is all orcs. You suggest nerfing the xp and rewards in that dungeon?
I've seen virtually all of the above happen in game. Specifically, one dungeon. Cloak Tower. I've been on teams that just MELT mobs without having to chase any of them down, nor players much move while attacking. That alone negates almost every single one of your "solutions", good sir. Tank run in and round up the room, then come back and start blocking. TR and CW melt the masses, wash, rinse, repeat. If that's not farming activity, I don't know what is.
What I am drawing from all the whine and complaining about farms (not exploits. Those are bad.) is that they "detract from game play". Except......they're already in the game. Legitimate. Made for us to run to our hearts content, until we outlevel one and move to the next. With the Foundry, that doesn't have to happen. One farm to rule them all, one farm to guide them. One farm to win them all, and in the dorkness bind them. The farm scales with the level. It seems to me that what most of the authors are really upset about is that farms are more popular among the player base than their stories, and that's a more honest and legitimate complaint than "they're not playing the game the right way". HOWEVER, this does not give the storytellers the right to deny the farmers and grinders their enjoyment any more than those same grinders and farmers have the right to deny the storytellers fun.
What Cryptic SHOULD(and needs to do, IMHO) do is to find some other solution to this conundrum. Think forward with it and try to predict what players will do. Heck, if they can solve this problem, then they've done something PARAGON STUDIOS couldn't. And that company pioneered UGC. So that's my challenge to you game developers in Cryptic studios. Do something that even the great City of Heroes could not. Best the UGC beast without alienating either side of the fence. Because if you can't....then the Foundry is doomed to the same fate that befell the Mission Architect system.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
1) I'm getting reasonable XP from quests that consist of more than killing Ogres in a pen.
2) The one or two "farm" maps I've tried gave me XP at a similar rate to combat-heavy story-driven quests. If I wanted to think a little less and just grind, I don't particularly see why that's a *functional* problem with the Forge. Penned in ogres was a big problem. I don't thinf they should've nerfed anything but that.
I suspect what he meant is specific creatures. Like "Orc Drudge" or "Ogre Savage", not Orcs.
(Not agreeing or disagreeing with his ideas)
I wish I could rush to 60. The questing is sooo boring:(
Incorrect, sir. The Foundry is used as an alternative leveling lane for alts, or at least it COULD have been before Cryptic 'fixed' it.
Not to mention, that most MMO players (not I didnt say all) are notorious for playing what is efficient, but not necessarily what is fun. You could have Disney world mixed with Universal studios with a touch of Willy Wonka's factory for questing, but if it takes significantly longer that Doldrum grinding, most people are going to go with doldrum grinding. Take away the rewards, and frankly, most players wont bother with them until 60, if at all.