I don't think that HP stone counts in this matter.. How many people even have that?
Lets argue Rogue being OP. With pvp delays and how easy their skills are to dodge, I rarely have problems with any Rogues unless the timing is just HAMSTER me over.
The proof in CW being OP? Uh.. They have the most dodge, they have the most dmg, most cc, aoe, really should this even continue? How many times does it need explained?
Anyone in the game can hit this high with the right enchant. Did you know there is an enchant that lets you hit the target for your HPs 1% of the time. So if you have 30,000 hps and it procs, you just one shot them.
Any other hit this high is either coming from a Rogue or is coming from a CW that has landed their debuff and then dropped their single target daily ability on your face.
Correct. This enchant can actually be upgraded to 3% chance.
Any Wizard that hit for 24k must have had double Ray of Enfeeblement, Snap Freeze and also managed to get a crit. Even then, I'm not sure you would hit 24k. Maybe more like 15-17k. 24k sounds a lot more in the realm of the necrotic enchantment (That has been mitigated). Which means ANY class can do that amount of damage.
I don't think that HP stone counts in this matter.. How many people even have that?
Lets argue Rogue being OP. With pvp delays and how easy their skills are to dodge, I rarely have problems with any Rogues unless the timing is just HAMSTER me over.
The proof in CW being OP? Uh.. They have the most dodge, they have the most dmg, most cc, aoe, really should this even continue? How many times does it need explained?
Sorry.. where is your data? Your word is as good as anyone elses.
Here watch:
Guardian Fighters are THE BEST DPS in the game. The proof? They have the most block, they have the most damage, most CC, AoE, really should this even continue? How many times does it need explained?
I don't think that HP stone counts in this matter.. How many people even have that?
Lets argue Rogue being OP. With pvp delays and how easy their skills are to dodge, I rarely have problems with any Rogues unless the timing is just HAMSTER me over.
The proof in CW being OP? Uh.. They have the most dodge, they have the most dmg, most cc, aoe, really should this even continue? How many times does it need explained?
That's not really proof since you aren't going into specific details. Just saying they are the best at everything over and over doesn't cut it.
he is defending the class because it isn't really that OP. Once you understand the animations to watch for they are very easy to counter. The only annoying thing about CW is entangling force(choke) you have about a .5sec windo wto dodge it. And about 90% of wizards use this in pvp. I personally stopped using it for PvP because t is kind of cheesy and extra easy mode.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
This has to be the first time in MMORPG history when there's some fanatic defending his class on a qqopnerfthread. Honest.
I try to defend all classes against injustice. I'm just not a fan of people screaming that the sky is falling when they have no evidence to support it except their personal experience (Which, let's be honest, is pretty invalid data).
I have a feeling that any time someone asks you to back up your claims you insult them.
You're telling me to back it up? How? Is people coming in saying they can get 1 shot or 24k hits from CW not proof enough? Or do you not pvp cause you're too busy plvling and not actually playing the game?
I try to defend all classes against injustice. I'm just not a fan of people screaming that the sky is falling when they have no evidence to support it except their personal experience (Which, let's be honest, is pretty invalid data).
You're telling me to back it up? How? Is people coming in saying they can get 1 shot or 24k hits from CW not proof enough? Or do you not pvp cause you're too busy plvling and not actually playing the game?
You're telling me to back it up? How? Is people coming in saying they can get 1 shot or 24k hits from CW not proof enough? Or do you not pvp cause you're too busy plvling and not actually playing the game?
My point is you cannot back it up by just saying that it is true.
Once again, one person's word is not law, or even fact. Anyone could make 10 accounts and come in here saying that Clerics are one-shotting people for 60k. I'm not saying that's what's happening, but asking for balance changes in a game based off of opinions that could likely be exaggerated isn't a good enough reason.
And I do PvP actually. Which is why I know so much about all the classes and what they have at their disposal in PvP scenarios.
I don't generally post on forums - but I feel like it'd be a good idea to put in my two cents.
Every class has their uses in PVP (as well as outside of PVP, obviously.) Part of your issue with CW's likely stems from the fact that you're playing with other random players - so there's little to no organization within your team. CW's are very good at, well, controlling fights. Solid dps as well as the obvious control aspect of skills means even in (or especially in) an unorganized fight, a CW will flourish. It's just far too easy to be left alone to your own devices as a CW.
However in more organized PVP, CW's are prime targets. Why?
A) Because you can't allow a Control Wizard to do just that - control the fight. Leaving any class alone in a fight is foolish - but it's easier to get away with it as a CW, who's ranged. With the amount of teamfight spells available to a CW, well - they're that much more dangerous, and so are prime targets.
Generally speaking, a good, balanced squad will have their own CW, ready and willing to deal with the opponents' CW. Already it's become quite common for there to be CW vs. CW fights raging on in the background of a massive brawl. Also, if your team's CW manages to get their solid lock-down combo on the opponents' CW, they're basically food for your team. A CW with no access to any of their escape mechanisms is a very quickly dead CW. I think a good word to describe a CW in this situation, would be 'squishy.'
I'm sure CW's will continue to rampage through random PVP games - but only in this regard are they broken. Part of the fun is learning how to deal with the different classes, finding the counters and actually employing them. The only thing broken about any class, is people refusing to find a solution.
frigidsheep got it 100% correct. When I am playing against a PUG I am able to help my team dominate quite easily. Even if we are a PUG too, because a lot of people don't go straight for the CW for some odd reason.
But as I have been in the 60 bracket the past few days and people know im annoying and detrimental I am beyond focus fired.
I get just about every CC under the sun thrown on me and dailys popped on me every other minute.
Which is kind o ffunny that people feel the need to pop a daily on the CW that is being CC'ed and burned down anyway. But hell if theyre going to waste all the CC and dailys on me that leaves my team free to do what they do for a bit while the enemies are all on CD.
Pretty much have your CW deal with the other CW. Or even better sick a GF on the wizard. And a good TR will watch the CW hp and shdow jump to him to finish him off before the CW knows what hit him.
As a CW when you have 2 or 3 people on you it is harder to pay attention to everything that is going on so our "OP" dodge and CC doesn't really help.
It's the same when dealing with a GF or a DC. If you arent fighting them strategically or at a 2v1 focus fire type thing then chances are they will live long enough to cap the point or for their team to come back them up and then cap the point.
Remembe rthats the whole purpose, this isnt a death match. Get the control points, work with your team to hold them and win.
As a CW I usually have the most deaths because I get CC and focus fired so often but I dont come to the forums and cry for nerfs because thats part of the game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
How stupid can you be. Where did I say "SOLO" in any of my statement? In Domination CW has tons of advantage points to pick people off in team fights even. None of this has to do with solo, no ****. But 1v1's happen all the time in pvp too. In which, a smart CW can take ANY class 1v1.
Just as any other class can kill a CW..... You should quit whining and learn to play.
This entire topic is wrong and clearly made by someone who doesn't actually play a Wizard in higher level PvP.
Wizards aren't a huge threat to any competent and experienced pvper. They have a lot of tell signs and most of their big stuff is highly susceptible to dodge/block maneuvers. The problem with most people is they don't focus the Wizards first and keep an eye on them so you're able to sneak up on someone and take them down. I do this all the time as a Wizard and I win not because I completely overpowered them but because 9:10 times they aren't paying attention and get snuck by me.
Most of the CC is actually of a very, very short duration. The longest CC we have is probably Ice Knife as a prone ability as Choke lasts 2 seconds (3s with full Arcane Power) and even Chill Spike stun is only a brief pause. In fact I'd argue a GWF is easily capable (and often times do) bring just as much CC with the only disadvantage of it being melee range.
The bigger concern I'd think would be our insanely high burst damage but we're certainly not alone in that department.
They may drop someone in 2-3 hits, but they drop in 1-2 hits. I'm not sure where the survivability you speak of comes from. Dodge is limited and runs out in about 5 seconds against any melee worth their salt. Also, all their control encounters other than daily powers are single target. As soon as someone else joins the fight (Remember, the game doesn't revolve around 1v1) they are toast.
they don't die in 1-2 hits. please think before speaking. Reading all your bull**** its obv you either ****ing suck huge at CW and actaully beleive the horse **** you're spewing or you prefer the class > skill mentallity.
If you've even playe4d a melee before you would know what they are talking about, **** i play a GWF and CW and its far far easier to see CW destroys GWF hands down everytime. even a down syndrome monkey could mash his face on the keyboard and hit half the button he needed to and still beat a elite GWF.
I'm not even touching my GWF until they fix them. i prefer them honestly but there's absolutely no point in playing it when they are terribly under balanced. CW far funner since its just push--->rapemode in 2 skills and repeat for any melee that comes near.
I admit i'm playing the HAMSTER class right now. 100% funner thinking you're better because you're 2 shotting people then knowing you're better and getting 2 shot by someone who is clearly HAMSTER.
er, I'll testify to that, I often get hit for 30k..
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nerfrogezMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Oh how original a nerf thread. That poll you put up certainly backfired OP. I can always tell the guys who are bad at PVP they look like the OP. Make a claim with no evidence to the contrary, everyone disagrees, OP argues with every person on every page until he gets stun killed by a Rogue then posts a new thread /repeat. Yawn.
they don't die in 1-2 hits. please think before speaking. Reading all your bull**** its obv you either ****ing suck huge at CW and actaully beleive the horse **** you're spewing or you prefer the class > skill mentallity.
If you've even playe4d a melee before you would know what they are talking about, **** i play a GWF and CW and its far far easier to see CW destroys GWF hands down everytime. even a down syndrome monkey could mash his face on the keyboard and hit half the button he needed to and still beat a elite GWF.
I'm not even touching my GWF until they fix them. i prefer them honestly but there's absolutely no point in playing it when they are terribly under balanced. CW far funner since its just push--->rapemode in 2 skills and repeat for any melee that comes near.
I admit i'm playing the HAMSTER class right now. 100% funner thinking you're better because you're 2 shotting people then knowing you're better and getting 2 shot by someone who is clearly HAMSTER.
Sir you need to learn how to properly play your class, I am sorry to say but anyone who plays an "elite" GWF can smash any wizards face. When they actually have any clue what there class can do. Yes GWF is harder to learn then other classes, however its reward is much higher as well. I have seen such carnage come from GWF's its insane.
Every player who does the "I AM QUITING GWF UNTIL THEY FIX THEM" never bothered to respec, or actually understand how to stack the proper stats, or do the proper skills.
Now that being said
CW's Are not "OP" they are just easy to play compared to other classes, they have very high burst, if you are smart. That being said having played one I understand there boon's and downfalls.
People who do not know how to dodge/block there Daily die, simple as that. Those who can hear a cling cling sound know its coming dodge it, and just killed the wizards chance to win the fight. They live and die by the daily 80% of the time.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
You do realize that a GWF can make themselves completely immune to CC and easily hit for over 10k. And a GF can block every controlling effect a Wizard throws out, while dishing out a lot of control of their own.
Perhaps you should get a few classes to 60 and practice up before you decide what's best for a game.
Now you are assuming this is a 1v1 situation. The GWF and any other class other than a wizard vs a Control Wizard, and any other damage speced class including DC,GF, can Hold the GWF before he builds determination and kill him before he has a chance to activate it OR. he activated it at 10% health after the hold wears off and dies anyways. And I play a very Heavy Defense and Deflection GF with lots of Mobility for PVP so I can survive these onslaughts and hope to hit Avalanche of steal if I do survive so I can revenge "hurt" the CW enough for an ally to kill him and hopefully I get an assist.
However I will not Vote to "nerf" the CW we need there controls for PVE content, a little but not much PVP only nerf would not be so bad. But I do not expect them to Fix any other class before they fix the GWF.
but how do you kill a CW as a rogue? they get to blink away all the time and dodge pretty much all the slows and stuns i have. im not calling them OP, but im honestly frustrated cuz i keep using deft strike on them and they always dodge away and then the next thing i know im lifted into the air, stunned, and have nightmare wizardy on me. its just so annoying. then i try to close the distance and they easily blink away. i guess im playing wrong, but if so can someone please tell me how to kill CW as TW?
You do realize that a GWF can make themselves completely immune to CC and easily hit for over 10k. And a GF can block every controlling effect a Wizard throws out, while dishing out a lot of control of their own.
Perhaps you should get a few classes to 60 and practice up before you decide what's best for a game.
but how do you kill a CW as a rogue? they get to blink away all the time and dodge pretty much all the slows and stuns i have. im not calling them OP, but im honestly frustrated cuz i keep using deft strike on them and they always dodge away and then the next thing i know im lifted into the air, stunned, and have nightmare wizardy on me. its just so annoying. then i try to close the distance and they easily blink away. i guess im playing wrong, but if so can someone please tell me how to kill CW as TW?
Dont worry. Once you are level 60 and have avarage gear you can do some damage daillies that can do more damage then the CW will ever have health
Comments
Lets argue Rogue being OP. With pvp delays and how easy their skills are to dodge, I rarely have problems with any Rogues unless the timing is just HAMSTER me over.
The proof in CW being OP? Uh.. They have the most dodge, they have the most dmg, most cc, aoe, really should this even continue? How many times does it need explained?
Correct. This enchant can actually be upgraded to 3% chance.
Any Wizard that hit for 24k must have had double Ray of Enfeeblement, Snap Freeze and also managed to get a crit. Even then, I'm not sure you would hit 24k. Maybe more like 15-17k. 24k sounds a lot more in the realm of the necrotic enchantment (That has been mitigated). Which means ANY class can do that amount of damage.
Sorry.. where is your data? Your word is as good as anyone elses.
Here watch:
Guardian Fighters are THE BEST DPS in the game. The proof? They have the most block, they have the most damage, most CC, AoE, really should this even continue? How many times does it need explained?
See how easy that is?
I have a feeling that any time someone asks you to back up your claims you insult them.
That's not really proof since you aren't going into specific details. Just saying they are the best at everything over and over doesn't cut it.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
I try to defend all classes against injustice. I'm just not a fan of people screaming that the sky is falling when they have no evidence to support it except their personal experience (Which, let's be honest, is pretty invalid data).
You're telling me to back it up? How? Is people coming in saying they can get 1 shot or 24k hits from CW not proof enough? Or do you not pvp cause you're too busy plvling and not actually playing the game?
He was being sarcastic.
That's not proof, that's hearsay.
My point is you cannot back it up by just saying that it is true.
Once again, one person's word is not law, or even fact. Anyone could make 10 accounts and come in here saying that Clerics are one-shotting people for 60k. I'm not saying that's what's happening, but asking for balance changes in a game based off of opinions that could likely be exaggerated isn't a good enough reason.
And I do PvP actually. Which is why I know so much about all the classes and what they have at their disposal in PvP scenarios.
Every class has their uses in PVP (as well as outside of PVP, obviously.) Part of your issue with CW's likely stems from the fact that you're playing with other random players - so there's little to no organization within your team. CW's are very good at, well, controlling fights. Solid dps as well as the obvious control aspect of skills means even in (or especially in) an unorganized fight, a CW will flourish. It's just far too easy to be left alone to your own devices as a CW.
However in more organized PVP, CW's are prime targets. Why?
A) Because you can't allow a Control Wizard to do just that - control the fight. Leaving any class alone in a fight is foolish - but it's easier to get away with it as a CW, who's ranged. With the amount of teamfight spells available to a CW, well - they're that much more dangerous, and so are prime targets.
I'm sure CW's will continue to rampage through random PVP games - but only in this regard are they broken. Part of the fun is learning how to deal with the different classes, finding the counters and actually employing them. The only thing broken about any class, is people refusing to find a solution.
But as I have been in the 60 bracket the past few days and people know im annoying and detrimental I am beyond focus fired.
I get just about every CC under the sun thrown on me and dailys popped on me every other minute.
Which is kind o ffunny that people feel the need to pop a daily on the CW that is being CC'ed and burned down anyway. But hell if theyre going to waste all the CC and dailys on me that leaves my team free to do what they do for a bit while the enemies are all on CD.
Pretty much have your CW deal with the other CW. Or even better sick a GF on the wizard. And a good TR will watch the CW hp and shdow jump to him to finish him off before the CW knows what hit him.
As a CW when you have 2 or 3 people on you it is harder to pay attention to everything that is going on so our "OP" dodge and CC doesn't really help.
It's the same when dealing with a GF or a DC. If you arent fighting them strategically or at a 2v1 focus fire type thing then chances are they will live long enough to cap the point or for their team to come back them up and then cap the point.
Remembe rthats the whole purpose, this isnt a death match. Get the control points, work with your team to hold them and win.
As a CW I usually have the most deaths because I get CC and focus fired so often but I dont come to the forums and cry for nerfs because thats part of the game.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Just as any other class can kill a CW..... You should quit whining and learn to play.
Wizards aren't a huge threat to any competent and experienced pvper. They have a lot of tell signs and most of their big stuff is highly susceptible to dodge/block maneuvers. The problem with most people is they don't focus the Wizards first and keep an eye on them so you're able to sneak up on someone and take them down. I do this all the time as a Wizard and I win not because I completely overpowered them but because 9:10 times they aren't paying attention and get snuck by me.
Most of the CC is actually of a very, very short duration. The longest CC we have is probably Ice Knife as a prone ability as Choke lasts 2 seconds (3s with full Arcane Power) and even Chill Spike stun is only a brief pause. In fact I'd argue a GWF is easily capable (and often times do) bring just as much CC with the only disadvantage of it being melee range.
The bigger concern I'd think would be our insanely high burst damage but we're certainly not alone in that department.
they don't die in 1-2 hits. please think before speaking. Reading all your bull**** its obv you either ****ing suck huge at CW and actaully beleive the horse **** you're spewing or you prefer the class > skill mentallity.
If you've even playe4d a melee before you would know what they are talking about, **** i play a GWF and CW and its far far easier to see CW destroys GWF hands down everytime. even a down syndrome monkey could mash his face on the keyboard and hit half the button he needed to and still beat a elite GWF.
I'm not even touching my GWF until they fix them. i prefer them honestly but there's absolutely no point in playing it when they are terribly under balanced. CW far funner since its just push--->rapemode in 2 skills and repeat for any melee that comes near.
I admit i'm playing the HAMSTER class right now. 100% funner thinking you're better because you're 2 shotting people then knowing you're better and getting 2 shot by someone who is clearly HAMSTER.
er, I'll testify to that, I often get hit for 30k..
Sir you need to learn how to properly play your class, I am sorry to say but anyone who plays an "elite" GWF can smash any wizards face. When they actually have any clue what there class can do. Yes GWF is harder to learn then other classes, however its reward is much higher as well. I have seen such carnage come from GWF's its insane.
Every player who does the "I AM QUITING GWF UNTIL THEY FIX THEM" never bothered to respec, or actually understand how to stack the proper stats, or do the proper skills.
Now that being said
CW's Are not "OP" they are just easy to play compared to other classes, they have very high burst, if you are smart. That being said having played one I understand there boon's and downfalls.
People who do not know how to dodge/block there Daily die, simple as that. Those who can hear a cling cling sound know its coming dodge it, and just killed the wizards chance to win the fight. They live and die by the daily 80% of the time.
Now you are assuming this is a 1v1 situation. The GWF and any other class other than a wizard vs a Control Wizard, and any other damage speced class including DC,GF, can Hold the GWF before he builds determination and kill him before he has a chance to activate it OR. he activated it at 10% health after the hold wears off and dies anyways. And I play a very Heavy Defense and Deflection GF with lots of Mobility for PVP so I can survive these onslaughts and hope to hit Avalanche of steal if I do survive so I can revenge "hurt" the CW enough for an ally to kill him and hopefully I get an assist.
However I will not Vote to "nerf" the CW we need there controls for PVE content, a little but not much PVP only nerf would not be so bad. But I do not expect them to Fix any other class before they fix the GWF.
a GWF who knows what hes doing at level 60 will shutdown and usually kill a CW if that's his goal. So can a GF, or a TR, or another CW.
Just time your determination better, hit em with daze and knock em prone. game over
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Dont worry. Once you are level 60 and have avarage gear you can do some damage daillies that can do more damage then the CW will ever have health
Elf Control Wizard - Dragon