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Fast and Easy XP Through Foundry - Working as Intended?

serotonergicserotonergic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
edited May 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
So I understand that MMORPG's have gotten progressively more and more casualized overtime since the days of EverQuest where spending an entire day just trying to run your naked butt back to your corpse after having lost hours worth of XP for dying in the first place wasn't uncommon, but the state of easy XP from the foundry seems to me to be quite excessive.

Here's what happens in case you don't know: <removed details of exploit>

To me, this seems like an obvious end product of the foundry. My question to the devs is, is this working as intended? Is this really how you want your game to be and should we expect it to remain as is? It seems to completely trivialize the leveling process and immensely cheapens the accomplishment of getting to level 60.

Is it because this isn't a subscription based game so you don't care about people being in the leveling treadmill since you don't get money based on how long people play?
Post edited by serotonergic on
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Comments

  • elessymelessym Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    It's what always happens. The Foundry is full of exploits on STO, and it was full of exploits on CoH.

    No doubt the devs will close loopholes as they find them, but the players will always be one step ahead.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • v1ctor2kv1ctor2k Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    To be honest, this was to be expected. STO had the same problems when they first introduced the foundry. There will always be people trying to exploit the system :/
  • usodesuusodesu Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So I understand that MMORPG's have gotten progressively more and more casualized overtime since the days of EverQuest where spending an entire day just trying to run your naked butt back to your corpse after having lost hours worth of XP for dying in the first place wasn't uncommon, but the state of easy XP from the foundry seems to me to be quite excessive.

    <removed details of exploit>

    To me, this seems like an obvious end product of the foundry. My question to the devs is, is this working as intended? Is this really how you want your game to be and should we expect it to remain as is? It seems to completely trivialize the leveling process and immensely cheapens the accomplishment of getting to level 60.

    Is it because this isn't a subscription based game so you don't care about people being in the leveling treadmill since you don't get money based on how long people play?

    <removed details of exploit> ;)

    also this game isnt about long annoying leveling it is about the experience of neverwinter world , end game grind, companion grinds , having alternate class to level up

    i already find without astral diamonds companions that need to train for 12 hours, seriously slow crafting with astral diamonds
    now lets talk about alts, if you have gone through all the quests once, you want to skip that , jump with your alt and your friends alts in a foundry map and grind to the top without moving once...
  • nickademus42nickademus42 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    <removed details of exploit>

    I'm glad someone else feels this way. I find the lazy quick xp/loot foundry quests to be an eye-roll. Granted, there are some heavy xp quests that are quick, fun and moderately challenging, but these also have a modicum of story and design. <removed details of exploit>

    Still, I know people will use the foundry for making quick xp/loot quests, even if they are forced to do it in a manner that PW approves of. I don't think that they should be removed or disallowed. I don't think my opinion should be the ultimate say on anything in the foundry. I believe if the majority of foundry questers dislike the exploit quest, they will review them poorly with 1 star (not sure if you can give 0 stars). This should move them to the back of the line and out of sight. And if the majority doesn't dislike the exploit quests.... well I'm used to being in the minority. Perhaps I'll start making my own quests with the full content experience for those of us that like to enjoy our xp grind.
    Knowledge is Power
  • nephtnepht Member Posts: 5,826 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    usodesu wrote: »
    <removed details of exploit> ;)

    also this game isnt about long annoying leveling it is about the experience of neverwinter world , end game grind, companion grinds , having alternate class to level up

    i already find without astral diamonds companions that need to train for 12 hours, seriously slow crafting with astral diamonds
    now lets talk about alts, if you have gone through all the quests once, you want to skip that , jump with your alt and your friends alts in a foundry map and grind to the top without moving once...

    This ^^. Part of the DnD experience is being able to run other peoples campaigns no matter what you may think of some peoples foundry mishes and the ones just made for EXP grind to remove anyone's content or reduced the rewards would go against what drives DnD.

    Player made campaigns.
  • kierangillkierangill Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    At least there is an option to skip content and mindlessly grind mobs if that is your idea of fun ,it always amazes me how players if possible skip the game elements and mindlessly grind mobs figure nways to skip bosses and for what ?
    To get to end game were grind is neccessary to keep you playing .
    It could be called a Grind to Grind game style .

    The focus these days is to get there first were ever there may be, the most boring but efficient way .

    I may develope a game with 100 levels filled <removed details of exploit> that give great xp at 100 there is a set of neccessary gear that you have to grind mobs to get before you can face a boss then another set of gear you have to kill different mobs to get a different set of gear with twice as much power to kill another boss with twice as much power as the first boss .

    Based on current mentality players should flock to it and I should clear my investment of a few quid and be in profit by tomorrow lol.
  • homohenahomohena Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Dunno about you but it took me like 3 days to lvl up with questin on my CW and 1 day to get full epic in pvp and PvE... I have done every epic dungeon with my friends and now there is nothing to do in the game.. Like why would I do Foundy quests with crappy rewards that even lvl 40 would not use... Imo this game needs something and fast. like being able to buy cosmetic items with Glory or seals of unicorn or give pvp titles or dungeon titles because right now im just afk and waiting that I can start new profession things...

    If it continues like this, this game will have really short life span and I dont want that because I like the game.. but there is simply nothing to do.
  • serotonergicserotonergic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    homohena wrote: »
    Dunno about you but it took me like 3 days to lvl up with questin on my CW and 1 day to get full epic in pvp and PvE... I have done every epic dungeon with my friends and now there is nothing to do in the game.. Like why would I do Foundy quests with crappy rewards that even lvl 40 would not use... Imo this game needs something and fast. like being able to buy cosmetic items with Glory or seals of unicorn or give pvp titles or dungeon titles because right now im just afk and waiting that I can start new profession things...

    If it continues like this, this game will have really short life span and I dont want that because I like the game.. but there is simply nothing to do.

    I imagine you could 1-60 with these xp grind foundry quests in a single evening of just 6 hours or so. I've got two extra char slots...I'll give it a go and see how long it actually takes.
  • serotonergicserotonergic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    nepht wrote: »
    This ^^. Part of the DnD experience is being able to run other peoples campaigns no matter what you may think of some peoples foundry mishes and the ones just made for EXP grind to remove anyone's content or reduced the rewards would go against what drives DnD.

    Player made campaigns.

    <removed details of exploit> in an impossible way to reach max level in a small amount of time is what DnD is about? lol, I don't think so. Have you ever even played a game of table top DnD or even the other Neverwinter games? This game is hardly anything like DnD and is much more like typical modern MMORPG's (aka a "WoW clone")
  • urdefmadurdefmad Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 145 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    lol, the <censored> is the point of doing this? unless you're playing alts and don't want to level them again

    but if it's your first char then there's no point in doing this
  • serotonergicserotonergic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    The point would be to get to max level fast? But I agree that it's stupid - that it completely trivializes the leveling processes, cheapens the achievement of getting to max level, and negates getting xp through quests.
  • direcrowdirecrow Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wow, hopefully they get that exploit fixed.
    Mindflayer Shard - @direcrow
    The Dire Crow - Tiefling TR
    Alice L'ddell - Human GF
    Ludovique - Tiefling DC
  • jazzneojazzneo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    whine about this and whine about that. what the big deal every level 60. most of you whine about just playing end content only.


    what to be good in pvp level up a healer and a tank then you beat everyone in the pvp


    i kill 3 rogue on my tank
  • bcvaporbcvapor Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 285 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    It's an age old argument.

    One side is enjoying the game the way they like, the other side is busy trying to ruin it because it affects them in some imagined way. All the doom you guys cry in every game like this never comes true. No mass exodus, no "bads" at max level etc. The devs will rain on the parade, don't worry.

    Over and over, sunrise, sunset:)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • jazzneojazzneo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    bcvapor wrote: »
    It's an age old argument.

    One side is enjoying the game the way they like, the other side is busy trying to ruin it because it affects them in some imagined way. All the doom you guys cry in every game like this never comes true. No mass exodus, no "bads" at max level etc. The devs will rain on the parade, don't worry.

    Over and over, sunrise, sunset:)

    Then should unplug there internet and go buy a Nes and snes. all mmorpg have some type glitch and errors. that life a mmorpg
  • drekorsilverfangdrekorsilverfang Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I'd rather be doing all these player campaigns and quests at L60 with a full build, but that's just me I suppose
  • caleshhcaleshh Member Posts: 61
    edited May 2013
    Yes working as intended. Do you really give <censored> about how john doe or sally sue is playing? Do they have any advantage over the person who does tasks, reads the lore and explores? Play how you want, leave.others to play how they choose.... <censored> is wrong you folks
  • jazzneojazzneo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1
    edited May 2013
    caleshh wrote: »
    Yes working as intended. Do you really give a <censored> about how john doe or sally sue is playing? Do they have any advantage over the person who does tasks, reads the lore and explores? Play how you want, leave.others to play how they choose.... <censored> is wrong you folks

    it part of socialise. they want to control how people play the game and make it to point not fun anymore. only fun for them
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2013
    My question to the devs is, is this working as intended? Is this really how you want your game to be and should we expect it to remain as is? It seems to completely trivialize the leveling process and immensely cheapens the accomplishment of getting to level 60.

    There's a reason cheat codes don't exist in MMORPG's.
    This is no different.

    The Foundry Content you are describing is an exploit and solutions are being explored. :)
  • gomok72gomok72 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Well, I can't really say I like the ide, if they enjoy that a of people glitching the foundry for level gain, but like someone said if they enjoy that style of leveling, so be it.

    I leveled my first toon through PvP (Tiefling CW) and did it solely out of curiosity and to find a good PvE/PvP build for my son who will make and level one up when Drow is available.

    I say fix it but within reason (Don't ruin a good thing because of a few exploiters).
    I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.

    -Kymos
  • knoteskadknoteskad Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The only one I've been doing is the open field one, I enjoy aoe kiting a ton.

    I haven't seen the one that <removed details of exploit>, sounds pretty cheap TBH.

    You should have to atlaest be vulnerable to the mobs.
  • banicksbanicks Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 66
    edited May 2013
    Personally, I don't have an issue with people "exploiting" their way to 60. It doesn't affect me in the least.

    Foundry was a lazy way to release PvE content without Cryptic having to create it, and as much as they will try to stay on top of it, EXP farming content will be released daily.

    Once you've levelled a few characters to 60, there really is little interest in the storyline repetition for the other characters you can create.
    Oceanic Neverwinter Online Guild: http://19thbattalion.com/
  • uvirith1uvirith1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 124
    edited May 2013
    Be careful with that kind of threads. Sure, exploits ned to be adressed. But the exp you get from foundries is okay as it is. It can even be heightened a little. The foundry is what makes this game special. I dont care for the poorly written story the game provides. I want to play and level with the playermade content. It feels like a real PnP-Experience.
  • serotonergicserotonergic Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited May 2013
    There's a reason cheat codes don't exist in MMORPG's.
    This is no different.

    The Foundry Content you are describing is an exploit and solutions are being explored. :)

    And finally there was reason. Thank you lol :)
  • countmaguscountmagus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Let people level up the way they want to. If they enjoy mindless ogre killing without experiencing what the game offers, it's their loss. To me the quality of experience is more important, so I don't see any problem. I wouldn't want the developers to limit or restrict a unique aspect of the game though. I enjoy freedom and possibilities.
  • clcmercyclcmercy Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 308 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    When Paragon Studios pioneered User Generated Content with their Mission Architect system, they ran into similar problems. Farming is not a bannable offense, they decided, but breaking the risk-vs-reward ratio is. What has been described is most certainly breaking that ratio into tiny pieces.

    Farming is not a bad thing, all in all. It's what every MMO developer actually loves to see, IMHO. Repetitive content that people grind out, over and over and over and over. Personally, I can't do overmuch of it. Back in City of, there were maps filled with mobs from the game and you could set your personal difficulty levels so that one player with one character ran maps full of enemies set for a team size of eight and four levels higher than the player's level. I could do maybe two or three runs before having to break and do something else, but they were useful for grinding out what I needed at the time. (Prestige for base building.*drool* I really miss base building. :( )

    At any rate, I feel confident Cryptic will come to the same decision that Paragon Studios did and set, then maintain a risk-to-reward formula, and if anyone broke it, punishment ensued.

    Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
  • zebularzebular Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
    edited May 2013
    Just a reminder:
    . . . . . Please do not detail in any way an exploit. If you are wishing to report an exploit, please do so through Support or email at customerservice@perfectworld.com - we cannot allow the posting of an exploit's details on the forums, even if one is trying to report it. Posting it means you are telling others how to reproduce it, which is not good. Please use the contact methods provided to report specific problem players and exploits. Such things, even in the slightest, have been removed from this thread. Thanks!
  • ambisinisterrambisinisterr Member, Neverwinter Moderator Posts: 10,462 Community Moderator
    edited May 2013
    countmagus wrote: »
    Let people level up the way they want to. If they enjoy mindless ogre killing without experiencing what the game offers, it's their loss. To me the quality of experience is more important, so I don't see any problem. I wouldn't want the developers to limit or restrict a unique aspect of the game though. I enjoy freedom and possibilities.

    Well if they just wanted to mindlessly kill ogres that's fine and dandy. You can find a few quests like that in fact which are perfectly legal.

    Exploiting isn't placing a bunch of mobs in foundry content and just making a big ball of mobs. It's a step above and beyond.

    Sadly common sense rules this area. If something seems too good to be true it is.
    If you can make Foundry Content which allows you to level very fast very easily chances are it's an exploit.

    And exploits are against the EULA and ToS.
  • karremaniakarremania Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 3
    edited May 2013
    I am pretty amazed that Cryptic put down the foundy on this way, being it totaly obvious they eventualy would create such 'easy farm' methods. I gues they kept an eye on their old game, CoH, seeing what massive impact architect had on the gameplay/leveling.

    Then again, its their choice. They wont hurt me for lvling faster then a normal questing person, just a easy mode grind. At the end, its everyone own choice how to go to 60, as the quests are static i would assume doing the entire quest/zone/story again, might be a bit boring.

    The ogre one, its just exp like regular mobs with a bonus, and i must say that a duo at high lvl takes quite a while to get them down. Its just a big headstart for the lower level people.
  • alexeraalexera Member Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I just truely believe that if someone wants to level fast, they are going to find the fastest way to do it, no matter what. I have participated in other games that had similar systems like the Foundry and when similar things happened in those games the developers nerfed the system so bad that doing the content maker ( the Foundry ) was not even worth while any longer. I mean you could get more xp from doing one normal quest out in the world than you could doing an entire dungeon through the content maker.

    I love the stories that people come up with in the Foundry but if its a waste of time as far as xp goes, then I wont do them unless I get the itch for a good story from time to time. I feel exploits definitely need to be fixed, I cant go into detail about those that Ive heard of, but no risk and tons of reward are just not the way it should be. I just hope they go about it in a way that doesnt require them to take the Foundry offline for a long long time ( I would probably go through withdrawal, some of those stories are very intriguing! ) and in a way that wont nerf it to the ground.
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