wtfsharkMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
When I was healing a dungeon last night I realized that everyone was using a cleric companion, so I just stopped healing and went dps. That is poor gaming mechanics IMO.
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stasispostMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
If you don't like them, don't use them. Don't expect everyone else to adjust to your whim that is contrary to the design of the game, which is built around each player having an active companion, except for the very early levels.
The point isn't whether or not we choose to use them. It's implemented in the game. If you're mostly queuing with pug groups people are going to use them. I'm going to use them. The dungeons are still fun.
The point is we're questioning the design of the game in the first place. I think the dungeons I've played so far are too easy/poorly balanced and overcrowded with a full party plus companions. Otherwise the companion system is fantastic and one of the things I really like about the game.
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prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
I actually love having my companion in the dungeons. I hated having to put mine away in swtor. Never been confused once during dungeons. Its no different than a hunter in WoW.
Except it's not a specific class mechanic-- it's an everybody thing.
The point that was made above that there's 5 tank companions in the party, there's absolutely no reason to allow a real player tank join the group...
all-DPS group with heals and tanks supplied by companions... doesn't make sense.
I know yesterday I had same thought when playing my Cleric, this morning I made a Wizard and got a cleric pet (they more pets then companions to be honest) run the first dungeon with the wizard this evening and have to say I am like the pet covering my *** on the wizard. But I hated everyone having a pet out when I was playing the Cleric as the dungeon felt over crowded, every party member already had a pet covering them, mellee had a clerics out and the ranged had mellee dps pets. While I had my tank pet out and we just stomped through the place.
Today with the wizard we 4 manned the Cloak Tower (the 5th guy dc'd never came back) with 2 wizards and 2 rogues, we had 2 cleric pets, mine and one of the rogues, and a tank and a dog. We didn't have any problems finishing the dungeon with no tanks or healers. So I think Prowessssss is right companions have replaced the need for dedicated tanks and healers.
Anything that gets helps to get rid of the ridiculous MMO demand of a certain mix of classes for dungeon runs is a good thing. There is absolutely no reason 5 "tanks" shouldn't be able to run a dungeon together if thats who is available. With companions that is completely possible...a couple healers should keep everyone going and a few strikers will supplement damage...
As for the healer players having trouble keeping track...can't you target by the character portrait? I assume you can...
I actually love having my companion in the dungeons. I hated having to put mine away in swtor. Never been confused once during dungeons. Its no different than a hunter in WoW.
Seriously, it's not hard to tell what's a companion, and if you don't like them, use the ioun stone.
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prowesssssMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 31Arc User
edited May 2013
dorn.... have you not played this game? mouselook is locked. when you move the mouse, the perspective changes, thus you're never actually able to click a player portrait. You can press alt, but you can't "select" a target nor can you push a hotkey while alt'd.
The demand for a certain mix is an essential part of MMOs. forced diversity and cooperation... Otherwise, what do you think is going to happen in 1 month when everyone realizes how terrible GWFs are, how powerful rogues are, and how difficult it is to play a cleric? You know what will happen. Without cleric's being essential and super useful and irreplaceable, the class loses just about all of what makes it a compelling class. Playing healers in games with simple and easy ways to target, scripts and GUI elements to further assist-- it's extremely difficult to play as a healer and not make everyone mad at you for not saving their lives constantly. Who the hell would want to take on the added difficulty and responsibility without also having the extra desirability?
All other MMOs follow this format. Heals are immensely difficult to play and you spend a lot of time watching others perform amazing feats, meanwhile your job is to be their safety net.. The flipside is that they never have trouble finding groups.
Now, examine Neverwinter's format. Clerics offset their mediocre offense and utility by having the ability to heal. You've just given everyone a personal healer pet that follows them around and focuses totally on healing-- why the hell would you bring a cleric along when you can bring a wizard with awesome utility or a rogue for awesome damage, since you don't need heals?
I also don't like it, I like playing with people not with bots. It turns dungeons into a boring zerg. Particularly annoying when tanking companions keep pulling aggro of me when I tank. They also seem better at it then the player. Why even require a tank for dungeons then? It only makes queues longer. With low dps (if you put your talents in threat gen as I did) and little cc the role of a tank in a dungeon seems to be to just supplement tanking companions here and there, pretty **** boring. Combined with ****ty itemization I find very little reason to redo dungeons.
I also dislike seeing the same companions with the same skins everywhere over and over.
Im for allowing companions in groups. Reason being is that it can be used to compensate for badly composed groups. I HATED in WOW typing "LFM tank or heals" for hours on end till someone put there hand up, and would have loved to be able to go into dungeons with just a groups of DPS'ers.
I like the holy trinity, I HATE when it is mandatory. I would like working with the holy trinity to be one experience and to be without it to just be a different experience rather than an auto-wipe, and I think companions could just come to the rescue = Got an unbalanced party, well balance it up using your companions.
The worst part about instances is the fact that if someone dc's..... you can't get someone to replace that person. You have to start the entire instance over/requeue. Kinda pissed about that considering it just happened to me and we were on the last boss.
I agree companions need more love and tactics would be a fun addition - but a social thing like dungeons where you go with *real people* is a place where they don't belong.
The whole game is social. So anytime I see another person my companion should disappear?
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ordainedoneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
They won't get rid of the Companions in dungeons. Remember, Companions are part of the P2W aspect of NWO. Honestly with they would get rid of them period. Nothing in the cash shop should put you at an advantage over anyone else. However, you should be able to look unique with different skins, mounts, dyes ect. PWE is my favorite cash grab company!
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited May 2013
I think the dungeons are too bland with all of the companions.
Especially when you're running through a dungeon and everybody has a healing companion.
Just seems like it takes out the challenge of completing everything because nobody loses health.
cihuacoatlMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I like having the option to have companions in a party. They give you the chance to finish a dungeon you normally could not.
i.e. I ran a dungeon queue PUG that was me (GF) and 4 TR... no healer or CW... healer pets saved the day and we cleared the dungeon in blazing speed. Do not need no stinking DC when you have lots of potions and a good ole companion.
I like having my companion around... not to mention the OP obviously doesn't know much about cats.
Especially when you're running through a dungeon and everybody has a healing companion.
Just seems like it takes out the challenge of completing everything because nobody loses health.
At higher levels no one seems to use the cleric anymore, and no worries about the challenge. I manage to finish maybe 50% of the dungeons I get into at 60, with a downward trend. The end game companions are pretty much the two non-combat ones: the cat and the stone.
I do use the cleric with my melee alts that I'm leveling. I prefer knowing I will get some heals at least!
sadmummyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Totally agree. It's one of my biggest complains about the game.
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xannehhhMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
Agreed, but I think (i'm a GF) that it's mostly bad for DC and GF.
It's especially annoying if people run with tanking pets for me. They seem to generate an amazing amount of aggro, it's almost impossible to hold aggro for me when there's a tanking companion as well. Makes my role kinda useless.
Also positioning is one of the key mechanics in this game, whilst if a tanking companion has all the aggro positioning is usually quite bad. Since you can't control your companions in any way, they get knocked back by a boss and continue tanking on the spot where they were knocked back to.
For DC's I can imagine the same problem, so many companions create clutter and makes it harder to target players to heal. Or if there are many cleric companions it makes the DC als kinda useless.
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sadmummyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
You are right. I'm a GF too, and I just hate companions. They should be removed in instances, or at least in LFG instances. Maybe if you join with friends, you could fill the 5 spots with companions if you are less than 5.
I like bringing my dog *Gemma* (named after my RL Blue heeler that i brought over to Belgium from Australia!) into dungeons!!!
As a puppy my dog in RL was much cuter IMO. i really dont see the big deal? I see lots of replys on this thread saying "remove them i dont like them" But no real reason why......
I like companions. The tank companions are a bit useless aside from soloplay, but aside from that i think its always nice to have your own pet to care for :P
I like bringing my dog *Gemma* (named after my RL Blue heeler that i brought over to Belgium from Australia!) into dungeons!!!
As a puppy my dog in RL was much cuter IMO. i really dont see the big deal? I see lots of replys on this thread saying "remove them i dont like them" But no real reason why......
roll a guardian fighter and party with the others in it rolling man o arms companions there is a reason for you, also if there pet pulls agro they get agro then if they die its still your fault XD (i hear alot of this) i personally wont tank unless they pull out another pet
roll a guardian fighter and party with the others in it rolling man o arms companions there is a reason for you, also if there pet pulls agro they get agro then if they die its still your fault XD (i hear alot of this) i personally wont tank unless they pull out another pet
Why not? The tank can never hold aggro on the adds, so they usually run around all over the place, need to be cc'ed and tend to sit on the healer. Having some actual off tanks may make runs smoother and faster (less running/blinking around).
I use the Cat now in dungeons, so it doesn't do anything besides being adorable and giving me stats, but if a tank told me with the WoW-attitude how I have to play or he won't tank, I would not honor the demand. The thing is, even in epic dungeons you do not need a tank, so unlike in other games, the tank is not in a position where he can "punish" the group by refusing to tank. I like that no class in this game is strictly required in a group.
I love the companion system here and I don't think it should be changed.
Lolwat. Companion system here is god **** terrible. Companions are almost completely useless after level 30 unless you managed to get one that you can level to 30. Even then they're pretty terrible. 2 abilities? Almost no customisation? Awful AI? (lol, i stand in der aoe yer? i run into melee range even though im a ranged companion yer?).
Healing companions barely do any healing, damage companions barely do any damage and tanking companions barely hold aggro (which is funny since every other companion is fantastic at it). ALL companions die so fast its not even funny. ZZZZZZZZ. Any game that decides to implement a companion system needs to look at the master of such a system: Guild Wars 1. There's no shame in copying especially when your game will be the better for it. Companions, at the moment, are nothing more than glorified target dummies for NPCs.
Healing companions barely do any healing, damage companions barely do any damage and tanking companions barely hold aggro (which is funny since every other companion is fantastic at it). ALL companions die so fast its not funny.
This is only true for the companions that are currently capped at rank 15 (there will be tomes to upgrade them with). The T3 companions tank and dps well, for a pet. Undortunately there is no proper T3 healer companion at the moment, but I still find the rank 15 one useful at 60 (for solo stuff). She does not last long, but her heals are percentage-based and it reduces the expenses for potions. Gold is not trivial at max level. There are also the Cat and the Stone, both of them are non-combat pets that do not take damage and who boost your stats.
I agree with the AI, though, especially the problem of them not using out of red circles and markers. At higher ranks, they can take quite a of damage, though.
I remember when they had games centered around bringing A.I. companions into dungeons. These were called "Single Player RPG's". The point of an MMO-RPG is to interact with other people which nowadays means you hit K, select a queue and wait. No one's class should be rendered useless because they bring in an AI companion. Looking at you, GF and DC.
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silverpipeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I actually love having my companion in the dungeons. I hated having to put mine away in swtor. Never been confused once during dungeons. Its no different than a hunter in WoW.
Then whomever's class your companion is replacing needs to learn how to do their job better if you're that unsure of their abilities.
Not everyone plays games solely for numbers and efficiency. Some of us care about the experience too. If I level a companion all the way up to its max rank, and had it out for many adventures, then I feel attached to it and would like to bring it along for new adventures that my character embarks on. This is a roleplaying game.
And you can replace any class, regardless of companions. Most epics I run do not even have a tank, several have no cleric. And this is a good thing, because here is finally a game that does what others only promised and never kept: Bring the player, not the class.
Comments
The point isn't whether or not we choose to use them. It's implemented in the game. If you're mostly queuing with pug groups people are going to use them. I'm going to use them. The dungeons are still fun.
The point is we're questioning the design of the game in the first place. I think the dungeons I've played so far are too easy/poorly balanced and overcrowded with a full party plus companions. Otherwise the companion system is fantastic and one of the things I really like about the game.
Except it's not a specific class mechanic-- it's an everybody thing.
The point that was made above that there's 5 tank companions in the party, there's absolutely no reason to allow a real player tank join the group...
all-DPS group with heals and tanks supplied by companions... doesn't make sense.
The companions are stealing our jobs.
Today with the wizard we 4 manned the Cloak Tower (the 5th guy dc'd never came back) with 2 wizards and 2 rogues, we had 2 cleric pets, mine and one of the rogues, and a tank and a dog. We didn't have any problems finishing the dungeon with no tanks or healers. So I think Prowessssss is right companions have replaced the need for dedicated tanks and healers.
As for the healer players having trouble keeping track...can't you target by the character portrait? I assume you can...
Seriously, it's not hard to tell what's a companion, and if you don't like them, use the ioun stone.
The demand for a certain mix is an essential part of MMOs. forced diversity and cooperation... Otherwise, what do you think is going to happen in 1 month when everyone realizes how terrible GWFs are, how powerful rogues are, and how difficult it is to play a cleric? You know what will happen. Without cleric's being essential and super useful and irreplaceable, the class loses just about all of what makes it a compelling class. Playing healers in games with simple and easy ways to target, scripts and GUI elements to further assist-- it's extremely difficult to play as a healer and not make everyone mad at you for not saving their lives constantly. Who the hell would want to take on the added difficulty and responsibility without also having the extra desirability?
All other MMOs follow this format. Heals are immensely difficult to play and you spend a lot of time watching others perform amazing feats, meanwhile your job is to be their safety net.. The flipside is that they never have trouble finding groups.
Now, examine Neverwinter's format. Clerics offset their mediocre offense and utility by having the ability to heal. You've just given everyone a personal healer pet that follows them around and focuses totally on healing-- why the hell would you bring a cleric along when you can bring a wizard with awesome utility or a rogue for awesome damage, since you don't need heals?
THINK.
I also dislike seeing the same companions with the same skins everywhere over and over.
I like the holy trinity, I HATE when it is mandatory. I would like working with the holy trinity to be one experience and to be without it to just be a different experience rather than an auto-wipe, and I think companions could just come to the rescue = Got an unbalanced party, well balance it up using your companions.
PLEASE FIX THIS.
The whole game is social. So anytime I see another person my companion should disappear?
Especially when you're running through a dungeon and everybody has a healing companion.
Just seems like it takes out the challenge of completing everything because nobody loses health.
My two cents at least.
i.e. I ran a dungeon queue PUG that was me (GF) and 4 TR... no healer or CW... healer pets saved the day and we cleared the dungeon in blazing speed. Do not need no stinking DC when you have lots of potions and a good ole companion.
I like having my companion around... not to mention the OP obviously doesn't know much about cats.
At higher levels no one seems to use the cleric anymore, and no worries about the challenge. I manage to finish maybe 50% of the dungeons I get into at 60, with a downward trend.
I do use the cleric with my melee alts that I'm leveling. I prefer knowing I will get some heals at least!
It's especially annoying if people run with tanking pets for me. They seem to generate an amazing amount of aggro, it's almost impossible to hold aggro for me when there's a tanking companion as well. Makes my role kinda useless.
Also positioning is one of the key mechanics in this game, whilst if a tanking companion has all the aggro positioning is usually quite bad. Since you can't control your companions in any way, they get knocked back by a boss and continue tanking on the spot where they were knocked back to.
For DC's I can imagine the same problem, so many companions create clutter and makes it harder to target players to heal. Or if there are many cleric companions it makes the DC als kinda useless.
But imo, just remove them from instances.
As a puppy my dog in RL was much cuter IMO. i really dont see the big deal? I see lots of replys on this thread saying "remove them i dont like them" But no real reason why......
Elf Control Wizard - Dragon
roll a guardian fighter and party with the others in it rolling man o arms companions there is a reason for you, also if there pet pulls agro they get agro then if they die its still your fault XD (i hear alot of this) i personally wont tank unless they pull out another pet
Why not? The tank can never hold aggro on the adds, so they usually run around all over the place, need to be cc'ed and tend to sit on the healer. Having some actual off tanks may make runs smoother and faster (less running/blinking around).
I use the Cat now in dungeons, so it doesn't do anything besides being adorable and giving me stats, but if a tank told me with the WoW-attitude how I have to play or he won't tank, I would not honor the demand. The thing is, even in epic dungeons you do not need a tank, so unlike in other games, the tank is not in a position where he can "punish" the group by refusing to tank. I like that no class in this game is strictly required in a group.
Lolwat. Companion system here is god **** terrible. Companions are almost completely useless after level 30 unless you managed to get one that you can level to 30. Even then they're pretty terrible. 2 abilities? Almost no customisation? Awful AI? (lol, i stand in der aoe yer? i run into melee range even though im a ranged companion yer?).
Healing companions barely do any healing, damage companions barely do any damage and tanking companions barely hold aggro (which is funny since every other companion is fantastic at it). ALL companions die so fast its not even funny. ZZZZZZZZ. Any game that decides to implement a companion system needs to look at the master of such a system: Guild Wars 1. There's no shame in copying especially when your game will be the better for it. Companions, at the moment, are nothing more than glorified target dummies for NPCs.
This is only true for the companions that are currently capped at rank 15 (there will be tomes to upgrade them with). The T3 companions tank and dps well, for a pet. Undortunately there is no proper T3 healer companion at the moment, but I still find the rank 15 one useful at 60 (for solo stuff). She does not last long, but her heals are percentage-based and it reduces the expenses for potions. Gold is not trivial at max level. There are also the Cat and the Stone, both of them are non-combat pets that do not take damage and who boost your stats.
I agree with the AI, though, especially the problem of them not using out of red circles and markers. At higher ranks, they can take quite a of damage, though.
I agree! I like having my companion with me.
Then whomever's class your companion is replacing needs to learn how to do their job better if you're that unsure of their abilities.
Not everyone plays games solely for numbers and efficiency. Some of us care about the experience too. If I level a companion all the way up to its max rank, and had it out for many adventures, then I feel attached to it and would like to bring it along for new adventures that my character embarks on. This is a roleplaying game.
And you can replace any class, regardless of companions. Most epics I run do not even have a tank, several have no cleric. And this is a good thing, because here is finally a game that does what others only promised and never kept: Bring the player, not the class.