I don't think they need to nerf anybody right now. What needs to be done is beef up tank threat, while toning down the healing threat, and maybe dps threat a smidge.
Thank you! This is the only intelligent response to my post. You are absolutely correct and I thought about mentioning it in my earlier post. I also don't have enough information to make an informed argument about it. I've only played a rogue and not all that high yet. However, the theory is sound. If the GWF did as much damage as a rogue in heavier armor and I know it also has AoE and some crowd control then it would be ridiculous. I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying it shouldn't be. Rogues have more mobility and more evasion potential and probably a bit better crowd control so it might be close, but they're really squishy.
Arguments about the realistic damage of a huge two-handed weapon are irrelevant to game balance, and actually to anything at all. There never were effective military units employing ridiculously oversized weapons like we have in these games.
The difference between your armor and a GWF's armor is probably 4-5% mitigation. Difference between HP, assuming you do not spec into con like most rogues, is about 17%. What you get instead of armor, is an actual dodge mechanic, and stealth. Also better CC.
I do not think a GWF should do as much single target DPS as a rogue though, better AoE damage.
Classes in NW are specialized to their roles, not like WoW which has given every class pretty much everything, making classes nigh pointless. CW is control and AoE, Rogue is single target damage, GWF is a striker role on a defender chassis, and GF is a walking wall, Cleric is a leader providing mitigation, healing and buffs. This fairly well represents D&D 4th edition. Don't try to solo anything, as getting drawn out will kill you, fight as a party.
Finally someone that get's it. TR's are not to op but they need a slight dmg nerf. but its true if they blow it all there screwed. squishy as hell but epic dmg.
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osciniMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
You cant really compare TR to GWF because one is single target DPS and the other is AOE DPS.
Why should a 1vs1 AOE dpser be able to do as much DPS as the single target DPSer ?
So when rangers are released are the TRs going to complain that the rangers arrows do more dmg than their throwing knives ?
How dare that Ranged DPSer do more ranged dmg than me !
I think players just need to learn their roles and work as a team and not winge about 1vs1.
True. as my cleric. really good geared and all but when im in PVE me and another cleric can not outheal the bosses rage/hard dps. the tank is forced to pop hp pots. that is not good atall. cleric needs a HOT buff or another solid good heal on semi high cd.
Greatswords were not an effective weapon, Many couldn't use them. They were used similar fashion to pikes, and spears or by infantry to strike down the opposing pikes and to hack out breaches.
A Dagger or knife is still used today. Greatswords were not used to cleave bodies for a number of reasons.
Greatswords actually fell out of use, due to ineffectiveness and difficulty to weild them.
OR because "However it would become unusable, as soon as the opposing forces collided with one another, and there would be increased pressure from the back ranks onto the front ranks, which created a thick melee.”. From the same website. Dagger/knives are not a primary weapon, you could carry a 2h sword and a short sword in a sheath. Plus its a lot harder to make a large sword as opposed to a long spear.
You cant really compare TR to GWF because one is single target DPS and the other is AOE DPS.
Why should a 1vs1 AOE dpser be able to do as much DPS as the single target DPSer ?
So when rangers are released are the TRs going to complain that the rangers arrows do more dmg than their throwing knives ?
How dare that Ranged DPSer do more ranged dmg than me !
I think players just need to learn their roles and work as a team and not winge about 1vs1.
Because players get skill trees and prestige classes and different stats to increase, so they can mold their character. If you CANT, then the customization is kind of a facade and people will be unhappy. TR doesnt 'have' to be damage, could be amazing CC/harass.
@oscini very true and a lumbering brute with a greatsword has never been a 1v1 master in D&D the agility builds have allways had a huge edge in that they attack fast dodge more move faster and simply dps the hell out of a single target plus there crits are massive.
One thing I hated about Guild Wars is they issued nerfs and buffs at the drop of a hat. I'd finally perfect that invincible build that cost a ridiculous amount of platinum in highly demanded runes, and required one of the hardest to acquire elite skills, plus a unique item, only to have it nerfed a few days later and be made totally useless. The way I see it, every class should just play their roles, and for Fighters that means Tanking more than it does DPS. Sure, Rogues can assassinate you if you don't have epic gear, or turn your back on them for a second. However, they are also squishy, and I am still dying a lot against enemies of equal level with my TR even after trying to stack attack and life steal like a boss.
TR are all or nothing. if you dodge or block their big hits then they are on cooldown and dead by the first thing that targets them. Also, the rogue might kill you, but your team just killed him after he blew his wad to drop you, and goes the saying taking one for the team. The pvp here is about who coordinates better. I promise you GF are **** hard to impossible to burn down when blocking, and because of reticle targetting, they can physically block LOS to softer targets. GWF are also tough when played by someone who understands stick and move, instead of rush and burn, because all you need to do to win over that is dodge and counter.
Because players get skill trees and prestige classes and different stats to increase, so they can mold their character. If you CANT, then the customization is kind of a facade and people will be unhappy. TR doesnt 'have' to be damage, could be amazing CC/harass.
given time good players will find workarounds to thease things. problems arise when whiners get there way and they nerf this class or that and thus throw true imballance into the game. I agree with you most of the people who are upset right now havent put the time in to really learn to build a char and what its limitations are regardless of gear.
And we got the point here to. ppl are complaining that they suc in lows pvp.
when you are level 10 with 10 gear there is ppl in that pvp arena that are geared lv 19's with 19's gear wish make them stronger itself couse the gear gives alot more stats. stop QQ until you hit max the max level in each pvp "tear". get youre gear sorted. balance the stats with gems and enchants. read every single spell you can get. make a build that suits youre playstyle and practice.
Assuming he isnt leaving out details... A rogue should never, EVER, 1 shot a GWF... even a pure green GWF should not be 1 shot by a pure purple rogue, no matter the spec. If they could do that to a GWF then they could 1 shot a heavily geared squishier classes too. High dps should not be the king of combat.
As for the other point... Sometimes? Sometimes it makes it fair, but then it depends on what classes you have in your group. You shouldn't 'need any class in your group, usually in pvp its the healer that everyone 'needs'. This just leads to a lot of rage quitting when one group is literally out-classed by another.
I have two shotted someone with greens on (After setting myself and build up for high damage in purple PvP gear). But I have never one shotted someone at full 100% health.
People don't understand in this game, classes are not set up like WOW classes, Rogues don't tank, Wizard's bubbles won't be taking 5k damage and not hitting their health and tanks won't be hiiting for 10-20k in this game. Their is a pecking order for 4th edition and every other edition of Dungeons and dragons and this is true to its' form.
Rogues should not be nerfed, they are strikers, that's what they do, kill **** and people by hitting them super hard control Wizards "control" they should not be nerfed as their role would straight up change "Warlocks are the dps caster class" and they will hit just as hard as Rogues with ranged attacks.
I may not be considered by most the BEST PVP Warlock on the server but, I am the most HATED amongst them.
I have two shotted someone with greens on (After setting myself and build up for high damage in purple PvP gear). But I have never one shotted someone at full 100% health.
People don't understand in this game, classes are not set up like WOW classes, Rogues don't tank, Wizard's bubbles won't be taking 5k damage and not hitting their health and tanks won't be hiiting for 10-20k in this game. Their is a pecking order for 4th edition and every other edition of Dungeons and dragons and this is true to its' form.
Rogues should not be nerfed, they are strikers, that's what they do, kill **** and people by hitting them super hard control Wizards "control" they should not be nerfed as their role would straight up change "Warlocks are the dps caster class" and they will hit just as hard as Rogues with ranged attacks.
I think that creates a different problem though, the scaling of damage VS survivability, at lvl 10-19 you could NEVER 2 shot someone, the TTK shouldnt so drastically change when HP/defense grows too. Plus the whole "help your team mate from the rogue" doesnt work if the rogue can insta-kill them and stealth away. so so much for protecting anyone.
I think that creates a different problem though, the scaling of damage VS survivability, at lvl 10-19 you could NEVER 2 shot someone, the TTK shouldnt so drastically change when HP/defense grows too. Plus the whole "help your team mate from the rogue" doesnt work if the rogue can insta-kill them and stealth away. so so much for protecting anyone.
But from my understanding he can't. Or, rather, he can but only once. He has got to be using a daily to burn someone down fast enough to be considered "insta-kill" and after that he's got to do much less potent things for a while to rebuild that before he can do it again.
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syh11Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
honestly i've been reading a lot of OMG nerf this, omg BUFF that. these classes were made to work in different ways, glass cannons are glass cannons. i have no problems being owned by a TR, they are built for single target damage, just like CW are built for CC and DC are built for healing. in a perfectly balanced world there would be 1 class and everyone gets the same armor and gear...what fun would that be? find your role in combat and fit into it, getting better at dodging helps tons too!
honestly i've been reading a lot of OMG nerf this, omg BUFF that. these classes were made to work in different ways, glass cannons are glass cannons. i have no problems being owned by a TR, they are built for single target damage, just like CW are built for CC and DC are built for healing. in a perfectly balanced world there would be 1 class and everyone gets the same armor and gear...what fun would that be? find your role in combat and fit into it, getting better at dodging helps tons too!
They arnt glass cannons, hell i just asked an equal level rogue was his HP was, its basically the same as mine minus the difference in Con, and thats not class thats build.
anyone OCW's on mindflayer? ran a 4OCW 1 trickster. premade. its unbeatable. need friends. OCW (Overcontrol wizard) cuz you guys are ****ing broken. when you are being trained by two people and can cc both those peopel while ccing the other 3 in a team fight. yeah youa re broken and 3 blinks forgot that
well i just did a 30-39 pvp, im 38 and just upgraded my weapon. My team was me, 2 CWs and 2 TR's, other team was all clerics/TR's and CW's. GWF/GF dont show their face until later ? We won but results were the same as every match i've done, lowest kills, most assists. Easy to run away from GWF even with sprint/slows, someone else finish them off. I intercepted a cleric smacked him off his horse, used my sweep to slow then my 2 single target dmg skills, cleric was full hp before she got off the ground. Rogue came by and STAB, she was half dead. It was like, if i was using three of my best single target skills, and they all crit'd, all at once.
Also as far as races go, 'repel resistance' ? what DOES that do? I notice i still get knocked back the same distance, and stay down the same duration. Not working ?
Comments
The difference between your armor and a GWF's armor is probably 4-5% mitigation. Difference between HP, assuming you do not spec into con like most rogues, is about 17%. What you get instead of armor, is an actual dodge mechanic, and stealth. Also better CC.
I do not think a GWF should do as much single target DPS as a rogue though, better AoE damage.
Why should a 1vs1 AOE dpser be able to do as much DPS as the single target DPSer ?
So when rangers are released are the TRs going to complain that the rangers arrows do more dmg than their throwing knives ?
How dare that Ranged DPSer do more ranged dmg than me !
I think players just need to learn their roles and work as a team and not winge about 1vs1.
OR because "However it would become unusable, as soon as the opposing forces collided with one another, and there would be increased pressure from the back ranks onto the front ranks, which created a thick melee.”. From the same website. Dagger/knives are not a primary weapon, you could carry a 2h sword and a short sword in a sheath. Plus its a lot harder to make a large sword as opposed to a long spear.
Please do not start this stuff. No one, with any character, on a near equal level, in one hit kills anything with full hit points.
Don't justify your anguish at being taken out with a silly comparison on a character class superiority over another.
This, as you stated is a the developers issue, not the silly reason to start the 'NERF this' garbage posts.
Solve you own issue with your solution and let the developers handle the rest.
Because players get skill trees and prestige classes and different stats to increase, so they can mold their character. If you CANT, then the customization is kind of a facade and people will be unhappy. TR doesnt 'have' to be damage, could be amazing CC/harass.
TR are all or nothing. if you dodge or block their big hits then they are on cooldown and dead by the first thing that targets them. Also, the rogue might kill you, but your team just killed him after he blew his wad to drop you, and goes the saying taking one for the team. The pvp here is about who coordinates better. I promise you GF are **** hard to impossible to burn down when blocking, and because of reticle targetting, they can physically block LOS to softer targets. GWF are also tough when played by someone who understands stick and move, instead of rush and burn, because all you need to do to win over that is dodge and counter.
given time good players will find workarounds to thease things. problems arise when whiners get there way and they nerf this class or that and thus throw true imballance into the game. I agree with you most of the people who are upset right now havent put the time in to really learn to build a char and what its limitations are regardless of gear.
when you are level 10 with 10 gear there is ppl in that pvp arena that are geared lv 19's with 19's gear wish make them stronger itself couse the gear gives alot more stats. stop QQ until you hit max the max level in each pvp "tear". get youre gear sorted. balance the stats with gems and enchants. read every single spell you can get. make a build that suits youre playstyle and practice.
Nerf EVERYONE except me, and buff my class.
I have two shotted someone with greens on (After setting myself and build up for high damage in purple PvP gear). But I have never one shotted someone at full 100% health.
People don't understand in this game, classes are not set up like WOW classes, Rogues don't tank, Wizard's bubbles won't be taking 5k damage and not hitting their health and tanks won't be hiiting for 10-20k in this game. Their is a pecking order for 4th edition and every other edition of Dungeons and dragons and this is true to its' form.
Rogues should not be nerfed, they are strikers, that's what they do, kill **** and people by hitting them super hard control Wizards "control" they should not be nerfed as their role would straight up change "Warlocks are the dps caster class" and they will hit just as hard as Rogues with ranged attacks.
-Kymos
I think that creates a different problem though, the scaling of damage VS survivability, at lvl 10-19 you could NEVER 2 shot someone, the TTK shouldnt so drastically change when HP/defense grows too. Plus the whole "help your team mate from the rogue" doesnt work if the rogue can insta-kill them and stealth away. so so much for protecting anyone.
But from my understanding he can't. Or, rather, he can but only once. He has got to be using a daily to burn someone down fast enough to be considered "insta-kill" and after that he's got to do much less potent things for a while to rebuild that before he can do it again.
Also as far as races go, 'repel resistance' ? what DOES that do? I notice i still get knocked back the same distance, and stay down the same duration. Not working ?