jgfuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
Ok First off, This is already explained and Good chance in these other pages some one already brought this up but I well again. This is my own experiences and opinion so if you don't like it or want to flame or cry then I don't really care.
Alright here we go.. ((Lv 60 cleric done most dungeons only a few T2 ones}}
Party=
With ''Tank''- If he is half good he well be able to pull main boss and make him look his way. BUT no matter what you are going to pull mobs if its 1 to 15 it well be up to your party and how they deal with it. Some times you well be kiting Elites or running around or what I call 'The Dance'.
No tank- You well do basiclly the same. Doing The Dance and the closest person well tank and destroy mobs. The objective is not to sit around and get hit. No more standing in one place for us.
The Dance; A circle run around using heals and your skills. If shield you drop run around build up divine then drop again. You well do this so don't get caught by mob following behind.
NOTE: All matters on your party. If want speak to them there is a chat box. Or wait and see what they do on your first mob. If adds are coming and you are dieing then they are not doing a good job. Have one of them baby sit you or just simply tell them nicely and respectfully.
==Notes== Add problem; If your on boss and its tanking then it spawns adds and you get aggro ITS NOT, I say again ITS NOT that you are having so much treat. Those adds are NEW monsters. They have no treat build up and it so happens your firing off heals and aoes so your pulling them. Correction; Wait for a sec after you see adds appear. See where they go and don't use Aoes unless have to to save party.
Treat growing problem; Yes I agree with some of you that the treat system needs fixing but also don't expect it to change much. Tanks I have seen couldn't handle all the mobs if they wanted too. (Maybe unless if pulling two shield combo with another cleric) The system needs to be tweaked but I warn you nothing maybe well change. A lot of times its not treat from hp its just bad mistakes, moves made to soon, and some times your in the wrong spot. Get use to wiping all you can do is learn from it.
Sunburst; Think this is just me but Sunburst is one of the most aggro pulling moves there is. With heal and dmg you pull most of the time every add hit by it unless CW or Tank is treating right then. I have done it countless times in Wolf den so I just changed it for something else.
Def; If your thinking your dieing then poor some points into Def. 3000ish rec is fine don't need 10k. Its pointless to have so high if you die. Just put some points in Def. If your squishy as a CW you are wrong.
===
Conclusion:
This Is not a normal Cleric/Healer play style. You need to be always moving and healing as you go. You need to be able to deal some dmg and have enough Def to survive out there. If you think your build is squishy change gear and runes, if your to weak, Change it up with moves. I change my key binding almost every boss to what my party is made up. Its not sit back and push a button. You have to move and run. Some times when your are unlucky (Like my self) you well have to do 'The dance' but know this... You well pull Treat and adds. Just make sure your team knows how to handle it and don't be stuck standing some where you don't want to be.
No offense, trust me. Just also trust me that you should slot Soothe regardless of your build.
Don't know about that >_> Maybe lower levels feel free too but that's a important spot. If your thinking your pulling to much mobs(Because you well) go right ahead. After Your Get shield all you should be doing is pop it and do dmg. Have a 2 move for heals like burst, Flame hammer thing(Can't seem to remember the name xD), or go more dps if your group is pretty hard hitters.
Read post above, you can have 50% treat level reduction but I bet you well get 2-3 mobs. Epic dungeons doesn't matter if you just stand there they can smell you are a Cleric and come at you. All matters on party and how you can move.
I already got rank 2 of soothe since i gotta put points to unlock next row anyway. It was gonna be 2 chains of blazing for leveling and 1 rank soothe but I switched it since cobl wud be replaced anyway
I am new to the game and only level 24 on my cleric 26 on my mage, but as far as I can tell as clerics you just have to suck it up and learn how to roll with the punches. We are the healer and off tank, so instead of being afraid of it how about we become proud of it!
0
jgfuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
Just telling you for future ref keep sooth all the way if your think it helps. Just Saying I know A LOT of clerics that don't run it and we do just fine. Ya we wipe on bosses but every one well. Dieing is part of the game to learn the ropes and know how to do it. Until they tweak Treat gain from Guardians and People Realize this isn't wow or any other game like it. By that I mean You actually have to move around and use skill. The skills that come later as well as Forsight, Healer lore, and Divine gain ones to me those two slots are important. But like I noted I change my key bindings on the fight and party I'm with.
Do what you do and good luck with that treat level stuff
Keep in mind that, unlike other MMOs, the Cleric is quite a mobile class with very rare nuke heals- most are HoTs... hell, our main one comes from right clicking every target in the room. We don't do that much damage, but we are somewhat mobile. Why should we not kite adds while dps kill them? We're quite useful for it really. Guaranteed threat, no massive reduction to our healing output, but a much needed role fulfilled. Sure, the times someone stands in the red and takes huge damage, it's hard to heal them without getting blitzed by a million adds, but that's what separates the good from the bad...
Conclusion:
This Is not a normal Cleric/Healer play style. You need to be always moving and healing as you go. You need to be able to deal some dmg and have enough Def to survive out there. If you think your build is squishy change gear and runes, if your to weak, Change it up with moves. I change my key binding almost every boss to what my party is made up. Its not sit back and push a button. You have to move and run. Some times when your are unlucky (Like my self) you well have to do 'The dance' but know this... You well pull Treat and adds. Just make sure your team knows how to handle it and don't be stuck standing some where you don't want to be.
This is great and all, but even continually running in circles, mobs still catch up to me and still manage to kill me. Using any ability makes you stop, so all you're left with is Heal Potions, and they just aren't enough when one of the bigger mobs is chasing you. In a pug, you're going to run into this frequently, because pugs are made up of people who don't know each other at all and thus have no real incentive to do their jobs.
Ok First off, This is already explained and Good chance in these other pages some one already brought this up but I well again. This is my own experiences and opinion so if you don't like it or want to flame or cry then I don't really care.
Alright here we go.. ((Lv 60 cleric done most dungeons only a few T2 ones}}
Party=
With ''Tank''- If he is half good he well be able to pull main boss and make him look his way. BUT no matter what you are going to pull mobs if its 1 to 15 it well be up to your party and how they deal with it. Some times you well be kiting Elites or running around or what I call 'The Dance'.
No tank- You well do basiclly the same. Doing The Dance and the closest person well tank and destroy mobs. The objective is not to sit around and get hit. No more standing in one place for us.
The Dance; A circle run around using heals and your skills. If shield you drop run around build up divine then drop again. You well do this so don't get caught by mob following behind.
NOTE: All matters on your party. If want speak to them there is a chat box. Or wait and see what they do on your first mob. If adds are coming and you are dieing then they are not doing a good job. Have one of them baby sit you or just simply tell them nicely and respectfully.
==Notes== Add problem; If your on boss and its tanking then it spawns adds and you get aggro ITS NOT, I say again ITS NOT that you are having so much treat. Those adds are NEW monsters. They have no treat build up and it so happens your firing off heals and aoes so your pulling them. Correction; Wait for a sec after you see adds appear. See where they go and don't use Aoes unless have to to save party.
Treat growing problem; Yes I agree with some of you that the treat system needs fixing but also don't expect it to change much. Tanks I have seen couldn't handle all the mobs if they wanted too. (Maybe unless if pulling two shield combo with another cleric) The system needs to be tweaked but I warn you nothing maybe well change. A lot of times its not treat from hp its just bad mistakes, moves made to soon, and some times your in the wrong spot. Get use to wiping all you can do is learn from it.
Sunburst; Think this is just me but Sunburst is one of the most aggro pulling moves there is. With heal and dmg you pull most of the time every add hit by it unless CW or Tank is treating right then. I have done it countless times in Wolf den so I just changed it for something else.
Def; If your thinking your dieing then poor some points into Def. 3000ish rec is fine don't need 10k. Its pointless to have so high if you die. Just put some points in Def. If your squishy as a CW you are wrong.
===
Conclusion:
This Is not a normal Cleric/Healer play style. You need to be always moving and healing as you go. You need to be able to deal some dmg and have enough Def to survive out there. If you think your build is squishy change gear and runes, if your to weak, Change it up with moves. I change my key binding almost every boss to what my party is made up. Its not sit back and push a button. You have to move and run. Some times when your are unlucky (Like my self) you well have to do 'The dance' but know this... You well pull Treat and adds. Just make sure your team knows how to handle it and don't be stuck standing some where you don't want to be.
Wow someone needs to sticky this post. Really great post. I play a 60 GF and one thing that I can also suggest is run to the tank every once in a while. We try to have our taught always on cool down so chances are that if you get close enough to us well take em of. Another thing I have noticed is how people alway seem to think that tanks need to tank the boss. Most bosses, at least from what I've seen are AoE mongers, and almost always have red zones as their attacks. If a rouge feels confident, they can pick em up and the tanks can take care of your dancing by standing by your side agroing.
This is great and all, but even continually running in circles, mobs still catch up to me and still manage to kill me. Using any ability makes you stop, so all you're left with is Heal Potions, and they just aren't enough when one of the bigger mobs is chasing you. In a pug, you're going to run into this frequently, because pugs are made up of people who don't know each other at all and thus have no real incentive to do their jobs.
have you tried sacrificing hitting the mob to instead continuously heal a player? I have found that with good recovery you gain about the same health back as you put out
Healing threat is over the top. In PUG's, most hard boss fights go like this:
- Every add comes to me. DPS can't peel them
- I die a few times, until I can't be rezzed
- I watch from the campfire as the group kills the boss, using pots and NPC's to heal
I assume things may change at 50, with Astral Shield. I hope so.
Yeah it is rather silly. Even if you try peeling them away it usually doesn't take long for them to go after them again or trying to chase after the mobs chasing afer the cleric running all mover god's creation XD. Least it was manageable most times but tried the mad dragon dungeon or whatever it is called with two pugs and was a disaster on the last boss both times.
Threat either needs to be lowered or the GF & GWF need some type of aoe taunt mechanic. If they do have one it needs tweaked or something.
have you tried sacrificing hitting the mob to instead continuously heal a player? I have found that with good recovery you gain about the same health back as you put out
Eh, Clerics always made decent off tanks in D&D. I have no qualms. Just wish I could equip a shield and ax on my dwarven cleric.
This. Players who opt to play Clerics can be beasts in the old school D&D tabletop groups I've been a part of for the past 30 years.
I *love* the idea that the NW Cleric is actively part of combat. I *love* the fact that mobs who are supposed to be intelligent understand that in any party, the healer is the #1 threat. It doesn't bother me at all that everyone who comes to NW from a non-tabletop D&D history will have to change their perspective on party roles.
Note that I said "I love the idea" ... I'm not at end-game yet, so I can't pretend to have an accurate assessment of what's going on. Since I'm not into end-game content, I'm not trying to preach that the aggro situation is beautiful and perfect the way it exists atm. I'm simply putting my opinion out there for Cryptic to read and take into consideration along with everyone else's opinions; what I've seen of Devoted Clerics 1st hand so far, as well as in the many videos I've watched... THANK YOU!
Yes - tweak it however it needs to be tweaked so that it's *playable*. But please... do not entirely abandon at least the feel of "D&D player-played cleric" who could wade into combat. Do not entirely abandon the feel of NPC opponents who should react to a healer the same way skilled PvP opponents react to healers on a team.
I fervently hope that NW will continue to work on this concept of the Cleric, even if Cryptic does have to make certain changes along the way and tone down the currently intensive OT responsibilities of the class. And by the same token - psh, threat! I realize an MMO is an MMO. But threat goes to the most threatening opponent, not just the dude who has a shield and pushes a button to... uh... what... magically taunt? control the brain of an intelligent opponent for the entire fight? I know 4th ed does things a *lot* differently than my group does, so I don't want to make any claims about what D&D "is" versus what it "isn't". All I know is that D&D *can be* what I'm seeing.
Bring it, Cryptic
0
jgfuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
Just telling you for future ref keep sooth all the way if your think it helps. Just Saying I know A LOT of clerics that don't run it and we do just fine. Ya we wipe on bosses but every one well. Dieing is part of the game to learn the ropes and know how to do it. Until they tweak Treat gain from Guardians and People Realize this isn't wow or any other game like it. By that I mean You actually have to move around and use skill. The skills that come later as well as Forsight, Healer lore, and Divine gain ones to me those two slots are important. But like I noted I change my key bindings on the fight and party I'm with.
Do what you do and good luck with that treat level stuff
So ya deistik That was my full post not that little part you pulled out and made context. I never said you don't move around or use skill. I seen your videos and taken parts of my final build(still in work) from yours as well. Crti thing sounds cool. I was hoping other people understand this isn't like other games and just stand around.
---
Originally Posted by liadanamaethal View Post
This is great and all, but even continually running in circles, mobs still catch up to me and still manage to kill me. Using any ability makes you stop, so all you're left with is Heal Potions, and they just aren't enough when one of the bigger mobs is chasing you. In a pug, you're going to run into this frequently, because pugs are made up of people who don't know each other at all and thus have no real incentive to do their jobs.""
That is true in some point but should be running where your party is close by. Hopfully your tank knows what he is doing and pulls them or your other classes pulls them off. If they don't kill or do so then their is some miscommunication you need to hammer out. Should happen after they realize you are dead and soon they well be.
Pets? ya they arn't keeping you alive in harder dungeons. maybe from 10% or so but there is a point where with out a cleric and its shield your dead. As stated before PARTY matters and its easy to use the chat box and talk to them. If they don't want to listen or talk then its up to you if want to stay in the party go with them. Most understand there roles others you may just need to help them out and tell them. Respectfully and calm, Stated again you well die..soo..get use to it.
In the harder dungeons, the augment pets are the only way to go, they don't die and you get the gear from them.
0
barofskiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
I got the cat but it wont let me equip a neck on em hes lvl 12
0
jgfuMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited May 2013
I Run a Cat most of the time to boost my stats and some bosses I'll use my tank to pull them off. Well least 1 or two lol
Well I still see people even with pets get wiped because I happen to die and they didn't pick me up(Random groups) But like I said most of the time they learn quick to talk or just keep getting wiped. After one wipe we understand each others roles and I get little more protection. >_> Any way Shield is op along with a few other skills. If didn't have that guess I be pissed too
I'm actually trying a new build today but little Worryed. Pulled away from middle tree and started dabbing into the lower one almost all the way.
That is true in some point but should be running where your party is close by. Hopfully your tank knows what he is doing and pulls them or your other classes pulls them off. If they don't kill or do so then their is some miscommunication you need to hammer out. Should happen after they realize you are dead and soon they well be.
Yeah...nothing more annoying than when you're trying to kill/cc their adds and they run away from you constantly so you always try and have to catch them. Real pain in the butt with a battle like the mad dragon when they do that due to the number of adds and the different aoe splats there are.
I feel threat was manageable when the rest of the dps are handling the adds not the boss. First time I died in skirmishes is the skirmish with the Pit Fiend. Maybe becoz the skirmish event timer is running out, everyone is dpsing the boss first before the adds. As I lie there, I watch the rest of the party down the boss then adds. Most of them run with their pocket healer companions. Which make me want to ask, should we cleric just run with pocket healer and use just dps skills w/o healing as by-products? Even astral seals draw aggros. Also are our dps that good, I often see myself as the bottom 2 total damage done, is it viable?
Comments
Alright here we go.. ((Lv 60 cleric done most dungeons only a few T2 ones}}
Party=
With ''Tank''- If he is half good he well be able to pull main boss and make him look his way. BUT no matter what you are going to pull mobs if its 1 to 15 it well be up to your party and how they deal with it. Some times you well be kiting Elites or running around or what I call 'The Dance'.
No tank- You well do basiclly the same. Doing The Dance and the closest person well tank and destroy mobs. The objective is not to sit around and get hit. No more standing in one place for us.
The Dance; A circle run around using heals and your skills. If shield you drop run around build up divine then drop again. You well do this so don't get caught by mob following behind.
NOTE: All matters on your party. If want speak to them there is a chat box. Or wait and see what they do on your first mob. If adds are coming and you are dieing then they are not doing a good job. Have one of them baby sit you or just simply tell them nicely and respectfully.
==Notes==
Add problem; If your on boss and its tanking then it spawns adds and you get aggro ITS NOT, I say again ITS NOT that you are having so much treat. Those adds are NEW monsters. They have no treat build up and it so happens your firing off heals and aoes so your pulling them.
Correction; Wait for a sec after you see adds appear. See where they go and don't use Aoes unless have to to save party.
Treat growing problem; Yes I agree with some of you that the treat system needs fixing but also don't expect it to change much. Tanks I have seen couldn't handle all the mobs if they wanted too. (Maybe unless if pulling two shield combo with another cleric) The system needs to be tweaked but I warn you nothing maybe well change. A lot of times its not treat from hp its just bad mistakes, moves made to soon, and some times your in the wrong spot. Get use to wiping all you can do is learn from it.
Sunburst; Think this is just me but Sunburst is one of the most aggro pulling moves there is. With heal and dmg you pull most of the time every add hit by it unless CW or Tank is treating right then. I have done it countless times in Wolf den so I just changed it for something else.
Def; If your thinking your dieing then poor some points into Def. 3000ish rec is fine don't need 10k. Its pointless to have so high if you die. Just put some points in Def. If your squishy as a CW you are wrong.
===
Conclusion:
This Is not a normal Cleric/Healer play style. You need to be always moving and healing as you go. You need to be able to deal some dmg and have enough Def to survive out there. If you think your build is squishy change gear and runes, if your to weak, Change it up with moves. I change my key binding almost every boss to what my party is made up. Its not sit back and push a button. You have to move and run. Some times when your are unlucky (Like my self) you well have to do 'The dance' but know this... You well pull Treat and adds. Just make sure your team knows how to handle it and don't be stuck standing some where you don't want to be.
No offense, trust me. Just also trust me that you should slot Soothe regardless of your build.
Don't know about that >_> Maybe lower levels feel free too but that's a important spot. If your thinking your pulling to much mobs(Because you well) go right ahead. After Your Get shield all you should be doing is pop it and do dmg. Have a 2 move for heals like burst, Flame hammer thing(Can't seem to remember the name xD), or go more dps if your group is pretty hard hitters.
Read post above, you can have 50% treat level reduction but I bet you well get 2-3 mobs. Epic dungeons doesn't matter if you just stand there they can smell you are a Cleric and come at you. All matters on party and how you can move.
Do what you do and good luck with that treat level stuff
Just my take on the situation.
This is great and all, but even continually running in circles, mobs still catch up to me and still manage to kill me. Using any ability makes you stop, so all you're left with is Heal Potions, and they just aren't enough when one of the bigger mobs is chasing you. In a pug, you're going to run into this frequently, because pugs are made up of people who don't know each other at all and thus have no real incentive to do their jobs.
Do I even have to LOL at you? Watch one of those videos and tell me I don't know how to move... that's insulting.
Wow someone needs to sticky this post. Really great post. I play a 60 GF and one thing that I can also suggest is run to the tank every once in a while. We try to have our taught always on cool down so chances are that if you get close enough to us well take em of. Another thing I have noticed is how people alway seem to think that tanks need to tank the boss. Most bosses, at least from what I've seen are AoE mongers, and almost always have red zones as their attacks. If a rouge feels confident, they can pick em up and the tanks can take care of your dancing by standing by your side agroing.
have you tried sacrificing hitting the mob to instead continuously heal a player? I have found that with good recovery you gain about the same health back as you put out
Almost true. Soothing light (divine at-will) lets you heal while you move, it's awesome for that.
Yeah it is rather silly. Even if you try peeling them away it usually doesn't take long for them to go after them again or trying to chase after the mobs chasing afer the cleric running all mover god's creation XD. Least it was manageable most times but tried the mad dragon dungeon or whatever it is called with two pugs and was a disaster on the last boss both times.
Threat either needs to be lowered or the GF & GWF need some type of aoe taunt mechanic. If they do have one it needs tweaked or something.
Er...no. You run out of divine power so fast. :S
That I didn't know. But how do I generate the divine power to use when I can't afford to do anything but run?
This. Players who opt to play Clerics can be beasts in the old school D&D tabletop groups I've been a part of for the past 30 years.
I *love* the idea that the NW Cleric is actively part of combat. I *love* the fact that mobs who are supposed to be intelligent understand that in any party, the healer is the #1 threat. It doesn't bother me at all that everyone who comes to NW from a non-tabletop D&D history will have to change their perspective on party roles.
Note that I said "I love the idea" ... I'm not at end-game yet, so I can't pretend to have an accurate assessment of what's going on. Since I'm not into end-game content, I'm not trying to preach that the aggro situation is beautiful and perfect the way it exists atm. I'm simply putting my opinion out there for Cryptic to read and take into consideration along with everyone else's opinions; what I've seen of Devoted Clerics 1st hand so far, as well as in the many videos I've watched... THANK YOU!
Yes - tweak it however it needs to be tweaked so that it's *playable*. But please... do not entirely abandon at least the feel of "D&D player-played cleric" who could wade into combat. Do not entirely abandon the feel of NPC opponents who should react to a healer the same way skilled PvP opponents react to healers on a team.
I fervently hope that NW will continue to work on this concept of the Cleric, even if Cryptic does have to make certain changes along the way and tone down the currently intensive OT responsibilities of the class. And by the same token - psh, threat! I realize an MMO is an MMO. But threat goes to the most threatening opponent, not just the dude who has a shield and pushes a button to... uh... what... magically taunt? control the brain of an intelligent opponent for the entire fight? I know 4th ed does things a *lot* differently than my group does, so I don't want to make any claims about what D&D "is" versus what it "isn't". All I know is that D&D *can be* what I'm seeing.
Bring it, Cryptic
So ya deistik That was my full post not that little part you pulled out and made context. I never said you don't move around or use skill. I seen your videos and taken parts of my final build(still in work) from yours as well. Crti thing sounds cool. I was hoping other people understand this isn't like other games and just stand around.
---
Originally Posted by liadanamaethal View Post
This is great and all, but even continually running in circles, mobs still catch up to me and still manage to kill me. Using any ability makes you stop, so all you're left with is Heal Potions, and they just aren't enough when one of the bigger mobs is chasing you. In a pug, you're going to run into this frequently, because pugs are made up of people who don't know each other at all and thus have no real incentive to do their jobs.""
That is true in some point but should be running where your party is close by. Hopfully your tank knows what he is doing and pulls them or your other classes pulls them off. If they don't kill or do so then their is some miscommunication you need to hammer out. Should happen after they realize you are dead and soon they well be.
Pets? ya they arn't keeping you alive in harder dungeons. maybe from 10% or so but there is a point where with out a cleric and its shield your dead. As stated before PARTY matters and its easy to use the chat box and talk to them. If they don't want to listen or talk then its up to you if want to stay in the party go with them. Most understand there roles others you may just need to help them out and tell them. Respectfully and calm, Stated again you well die..soo..get use to it.
In the harder dungeons, the augment pets are the only way to go, they don't die and you get the gear from them.
Well I still see people even with pets get wiped because I happen to die and they didn't pick me up(Random groups) But like I said most of the time they learn quick to talk or just keep getting wiped. After one wipe we understand each others roles and I get little more protection. >_> Any way Shield is op along with a few other skills. If didn't have that guess I be pissed too
I'm actually trying a new build today but little Worryed. Pulled away from middle tree and started dabbing into the lower one almost all the way.
Yeah...nothing more annoying than when you're trying to kill/cc their adds and they run away from you constantly so you always try and have to catch them. Real pain in the butt with a battle like the mad dragon when they do that due to the number of adds and the different aoe splats there are.