to be honest: i am having a blast playing my cleric up.
Tanking nearly 5 years now in another well known game, i thought ill give heal a try and i liked the sort of other "concept" of damaging mobs, buildung up resources with it and working with passive heals. What i disliked most about healing in other mmos is sole focus on other players, i want to be an active part of the group and the encounter and not just stand back and watch healthbars rise and fall - and occasionally move out of the fire.
Yes, bossmob aggro is not really the problem, but as soon as the first adds spawn you are running aorund, kiteing, shifting and curseing while trying to dps and regenerate action points and holy power for the instants and cooldown.
IMHO this is the greatest change in the paradigm of the usual standard healer-gameplay and the best source of fun. I dont even specc into aggroreduce, going for more crit, armorpen and regen and splashheals.
Pretty much. I have a video in my cleric build thread, you can watch the adds melt and/or run to our GWF. He also leads damage on every dungeon pretty much lol
I'd love to see a video on Lair of the mad dragon. I've been thinking about a crit spec but at cloak tower any spec works
Pretty much. I have a video in my cleric build thread, you can watch the adds melt and/or run to our GWF. He also leads damage on every dungeon pretty much lol
That doesn't fix the threat issue at all, that just says run into a AOE DPS blender and hope the adds die before I do. This is why the Sentinel GWF tree is essentially useless at this time, since everything about this game is pushing GWFs into near pure DPS builds. Which is fine if that's what Cryptic intends, although why even bother with a threat based and defensive tree then?
It's a bit of wasted effort to put the tree in if it's never intended to be viable and also a great way to dumb down any potentially interesting encounters in the future. There are also sets of GWF armor that are primarily focused around sacrificing some DPS for huge leaps in survivability. I guess I'm just one of the few people that still cares.
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| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
So. My pug just stalled on the dragon in Lair of the Mad Dragon because no one could pull threat off me. I spent the entire 20 minutes of the fight basically running in circles in the room, dying repeatedly (I died more than anyone else, even though we did not have a tank), and basically being useless. I could not shake threat to save my life, and I could not kill the little imps, either. This is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Even with 3 of my party members beating on the adds that were on me, they would not stop focusing me down. I want a fade button, or I want someone to fix this stupid mechanic.
If someone can hold threat off of all the healing I'm putting out, they deserve a medal.
Also for any clerics reading, if you aren't slotting max rank Soothe, do so.
that's all well and good at level 60 when yo uare all in epic gear
when levelling up this needs to be addressed. this is a f2p game. people will make judgements based on the first 20 or so levels. this will result in cleric turnover and not enough replacements coming up who are at all interested in group content due to the fact that every boss spawns stupid amounts of adds that were clearly designed to punish healing.
this game WILL become just like star trek online, where everyone just rolls a tactical captain. forget the tanky engineers or healerish/support science - they just die, take up space adn slow the runs down.
Anyway, I don't think you're wrong. The problem, as it is currently, is that if you run in a group that doesn't pay attention to what's happening to your cleric, you will die as a cleric.
If I ran in a terrible pug, I'd die even in my epics.
Anyway, I don't think you're wrong. The problem, as it is currently, is that if you run in a group that doesn't pay attention to what's happening to your cleric, you will die as a cleric.
If I ran in a terrible pug, I'd die even in my epics.
& this is with your max soothe in build so wats even the point of the skill then?
if it doesn't solve pugs then no point for me or any1 else in pugs to bother with it then
Well, it'll make it easier for DPS to pull the mobs off of you, but that means that they have to notice that you're being murderized and then figure out they can do something about it. If they're glued to the boss 100% of the time, you're going to be a smear on the floor.
The issue is that in a pug, it's hectic and that sucks for us. In a well-oiled-machine type group, threat is fine (with soothe anyway). If you're dying to adds, and you're not slotting soothe (pug or not), you have no real reason to complain. /shrug
I haven't tanked or healed any endgame yet, but I like the different feel 5-mans and aggro management has. Sure there could be some bugs in the system, but I hope cryptic sticks with this feel of the healers having to run around frantically. I like the feel of everyone working together to protect the healer, instead of watching the tank do his job and managing your DPS while the healer just plays wack-a-mole with green bars.
The issue is that in a pug, it's hectic and that sucks for us. In a well-oiled-machine type group, threat is fine (with soothe anyway). If you're dying to adds, and you're not slotting soothe (pug or not), you have no real reason to complain. /shrug
...and you have to be careful. If you make the system too simple or "easy" so chaotic pugs can handle most of the content, you are just making the game that much more boring for the pros.
...and you have to be careful. If you make the system too simple or "easy" so chaotic pugs can handle most of the content, you are just making the game that much more boring for the pros.
The problem is that a random dungeon finder sort of makes it necessary to "dumb down" some of the content. If you can randomly queue into it, it should be something that can be easily handled by a pug.
The issue is that in a pug, it's hectic and that sucks for us. In a well-oiled-machine type group, threat is fine (with soothe anyway). If you're dying to adds, and you're not slotting soothe (pug or not), you have no real reason to complain. /shrug
In this well-oiled-machine you mention, I would like to ask the following. How can you tell if its not just the dps people doing ther jobs pulling mobs away from you? How can you tell whether or not the passive Soothe works to begin with?
Would you kindly please make a couple vids with & without it under near similar conditions?
if it works to begin with & its only as useful as say...a dps person needing 1 less area wide skill hit to take mobs away from you, then I would have to think some more on it
I don't understand this mechanic... I have my 6% threat reduction with 20% sooth and I just toss 1 astral seal and pull agro off of every single thing during a boss fight! I get it if "big" heals draw agro, sure that makes sense but... if thats a big heal, what the heck is going on!?
what your tank should be doing in using "Enforced Threat" running back and raising shield and using both inblock attacks so the +33% threat mark remains up if this drops your heal with pull agro easy
The threat mechanic is just plain confusing. Not so much that if you have aggro you are at the top of the list, but more so what determines threat.
One thing I've noticed is that scrolling combat text is absolutely incorrect. Heal your self with Healing Word. It increases over time, but the numbers that you see aren't what you are actually being healed for. i.e. I have 10k health and I'm sitting at 50% life. With ticks of 1-2k, I should heal up to full with a single Healing Word. Another thing I've noticed is if you "stack" or chain your Healing Word (which you can't really do from an amount healed), you'll see your green health numbers increase and increase. Again, this isn't what is actually happening as far as I can tell.
Also try chaining, Sacred Flame about 10x in a row, you're hits just keeping going up but you're not actually hitting for that much. I have to wonder if the threat determination is using incorrect numbers. It could be part of 40% self-heal nerf that didn't get calculated into thread?
Speaking of -40% self-healing... How is it that the one class that has the most insane threat and has to chug more potions that any other class, can't heal themselves worth a dang? I remember them saying they nerfed our self-heals because we don't use as many potions as other classes? Well I beg to differ...
The one saving grace is that the 30-39 pugs were awful, but in the 40s everyone seems to have learned the "kill whats eating the cleric, rez the cleric, use pots, win" strategy to boss fights.
The amount of threat seems pretty large for the small amount of healing I am doing.
It would be like someone bursting into a hospital and shooting the doctor in the face for applying a bandaid.
Lieutenant Johnathan "Seven" Abradax Liberated Borg -Captain USS Solstice Member of Starfleet Borg Task Force - Tactical Unit
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barofskiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
It appears that HW / astral shield don't generate much threat. Maybe Regeneration "heals" don't count towards threat? Explains why these crit spec guys can run around a little more vs my old massive recovery / power heals :-x ?
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baltasar42Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Eh, Clerics always made decent off tanks in D&D. I have no qualms. Just wish I could equip a shield and ax on my dwarven cleric.
Still hoping for some1 to make a video with & without max Soothe in near similar conditions to see if it even works.
if it does I would like to see by how much. For example does it take 1 less area wide skill hit from another person to take mobs away from you? or is it more or less the same?
It appears that HW / astral shield don't generate much threat. Maybe Regeneration "heals" don't count towards threat? Explains why these crit spec guys can run around a little more vs my old massive recovery / power heals :-x ?
HW heals for so **** little that I'm not even sure it matters. They're taking 1-3k chunks out of me and I'm apparently healing for 300? o_O
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barofskiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
But use HW divine charged for the burst heal, you'll get agro. Astral shield - mine heals for a ton but its all regeneration not "heal" no agro :-x
In this well-oiled-machine you mention, I would like to ask the following. How can you tell if its not just the dps people doing ther jobs pulling mobs away from you? How can you tell whether or not the passive Soothe works to begin with?
Would you kindly please make a couple vids with & without it under near similar conditions?
if it works to begin with & its only as useful as say...a dps person needing 1 less area wide skill hit to take mobs away from you, then I would have to think some more on it
Not going to upload any videos because that would literally involve me wiping to prove something to you, which I don't care to do... you either believe me or you don't. When I'm specced for soothe, mobs get pulled off of me, when I'm not, they don't. That's my experience, you're welcome to have your own.
Not going to upload any videos because that would literally involve me wiping to prove something to you, which I don't care to do... you either believe me or you don't. When I'm specced for soothe, mobs get pulled off of me, when I'm not, they don't. That's my experience, you're welcome to have your own.
you don't have to wipe just drag it off your bar...sorry for any offense...jeez...
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barofskiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 24Arc User
edited May 2013
But use HW divine charged for the burst heal, you'll get agro. Astral shield - mine heals for a ton but its all regeneration not "heal" no agro :-x
Comments
Tanking nearly 5 years now in another well known game, i thought ill give heal a try and i liked the sort of other "concept" of damaging mobs, buildung up resources with it and working with passive heals. What i disliked most about healing in other mmos is sole focus on other players, i want to be an active part of the group and the encounter and not just stand back and watch healthbars rise and fall - and occasionally move out of the fire.
Yes, bossmob aggro is not really the problem, but as soon as the first adds spawn you are running aorund, kiteing, shifting and curseing while trying to dps and regenerate action points and holy power for the instants and cooldown.
IMHO this is the greatest change in the paradigm of the usual standard healer-gameplay and the best source of fun. I dont even specc into aggroreduce, going for more crit, armorpen and regen and splashheals.
I'd love to see a video on Lair of the mad dragon. I've been thinking about a crit spec but at cloak tower any spec works
That doesn't fix the threat issue at all, that just says run into a AOE DPS blender and hope the adds die before I do. This is why the Sentinel GWF tree is essentially useless at this time, since everything about this game is pushing GWFs into near pure DPS builds. Which is fine if that's what Cryptic intends, although why even bother with a threat based and defensive tree then?
It's a bit of wasted effort to put the tree in if it's never intended to be viable and also a great way to dumb down any potentially interesting encounters in the future. There are also sets of GWF armor that are primarily focused around sacrificing some DPS for huge leaps in survivability. I guess I'm just one of the few people that still cares.
| Lust | Level 60 Guardian Fighter 15.8k GS|
If someone can hold threat off of all the healing I'm putting out, they deserve a medal.
Also for any clerics reading, if you aren't slotting max rank Soothe, do so.
that's all well and good at level 60 when yo uare all in epic gear
when levelling up this needs to be addressed. this is a f2p game. people will make judgements based on the first 20 or so levels. this will result in cleric turnover and not enough replacements coming up who are at all interested in group content due to the fact that every boss spawns stupid amounts of adds that were clearly designed to punish healing.
this game WILL become just like star trek online, where everyone just rolls a tactical captain. forget the tanky engineers or healerish/support science - they just die, take up space adn slow the runs down.
Anyway, I don't think you're wrong. The problem, as it is currently, is that if you run in a group that doesn't pay attention to what's happening to your cleric, you will die as a cleric.
If I ran in a terrible pug, I'd die even in my epics.
just go dps the easy solution
& this is with your max soothe in build so wats even the point of the skill then?
The point of Soothe is obviously to make decent tanks/DPS able to pull off you. The problem is it doesn't really solve pugs.
Well, it'll make it easier for DPS to pull the mobs off of you, but that means that they have to notice that you're being murderized and then figure out they can do something about it. If they're glued to the boss 100% of the time, you're going to be a smear on the floor.
...and you have to be careful. If you make the system too simple or "easy" so chaotic pugs can handle most of the content, you are just making the game that much more boring for the pros.
The problem is that a random dungeon finder sort of makes it necessary to "dumb down" some of the content. If you can randomly queue into it, it should be something that can be easily handled by a pug.
In this well-oiled-machine you mention, I would like to ask the following. How can you tell if its not just the dps people doing ther jobs pulling mobs away from you? How can you tell whether or not the passive Soothe works to begin with?
Would you kindly please make a couple vids with & without it under near similar conditions?
if it works to begin with & its only as useful as say...a dps person needing 1 less area wide skill hit to take mobs away from you, then I would have to think some more on it
what your tank should be doing in using "Enforced Threat" running back and raising shield and using both inblock attacks so the +33% threat mark remains up if this drops your heal with pull agro easy
One thing I've noticed is that scrolling combat text is absolutely incorrect. Heal your self with Healing Word. It increases over time, but the numbers that you see aren't what you are actually being healed for. i.e. I have 10k health and I'm sitting at 50% life. With ticks of 1-2k, I should heal up to full with a single Healing Word. Another thing I've noticed is if you "stack" or chain your Healing Word (which you can't really do from an amount healed), you'll see your green health numbers increase and increase. Again, this isn't what is actually happening as far as I can tell.
Also try chaining, Sacred Flame about 10x in a row, you're hits just keeping going up but you're not actually hitting for that much. I have to wonder if the threat determination is using incorrect numbers. It could be part of 40% self-heal nerf that didn't get calculated into thread?
Speaking of -40% self-healing... How is it that the one class that has the most insane threat and has to chug more potions that any other class, can't heal themselves worth a dang? I remember them saying they nerfed our self-heals because we don't use as many potions as other classes? Well I beg to differ...
The one saving grace is that the 30-39 pugs were awful, but in the 40s everyone seems to have learned the "kill whats eating the cleric, rez the cleric, use pots, win" strategy to boss fights.
It would be like someone bursting into a hospital and shooting the doctor in the face for applying a bandaid.
Liberated Borg -Captain USS Solstice
Member of Starfleet Borg Task Force - Tactical Unit
if it does I would like to see by how much. For example does it take 1 less area wide skill hit from another person to take mobs away from you? or is it more or less the same?
looking for help in this please
HW heals for so **** little that I'm not even sure it matters. They're taking 1-3k chunks out of me and I'm apparently healing for 300? o_O
Not going to upload any videos because that would literally involve me wiping to prove something to you, which I don't care to do... you either believe me or you don't. When I'm specced for soothe, mobs get pulled off of me, when I'm not, they don't. That's my experience, you're welcome to have your own.
you don't have to wipe just drag it off your bar...sorry for any offense...jeez...