First, MANY of us don't even PVP... so whining about how you can't go around ganking a class because they ganked YOU reallllly doesn't mean much to many of us. I don't CARE about pvp, and nerfing this or buffing that because a bunch of kids want to run around ganking each other is what drove me, and some others I'm sure, from games.
Second, the REASON there needs to be a re-balancing is simply when you first make a character, and you look at the damage of the skills, the rogue has the HIGHEST of the damage. It's why I am playing a rogue and not other classes, at the moment. So, yes, the GWF needs to have their dps pushed up. But, CW doesn't get good till later, which is what a mage is SUPPOSED to do. Yes, healers SHOULD be able to heal themselves, and if they are geared right, go into god-mode. GWF is the only one lacking, in my opinion.
I agree, we should nerf Clerics. They can ****ing heal. How ridiculous is that??
Sarcasm aside, if Rogue is nerfed, then it becomes useless. Rogues are very squishy, if you didn't notice, and if wizards are nerfed then they aren't really "Control" Wizards anymore, are they? These 2 classes are good at one they were designed to be good at. Clerics/GWF/Guardian should never be able to beat Rogue/Wizard alone, and THAT IS GOOD.
I agree, we should nerf Clerics. They can ****ing heal. How ridiculous is that??
Sarcasm aside, if Rogue is nerfed, then it becomes useless. Rogues are very squishy, if you didn't notice, and if wizards are nerfed then they aren't really "Control" Wizards anymore, are they? These 2 classes are good at one they were designed to be good at. Clerics/GWF/Guardian should never be able to beat Rogue/Wizard alone, and THAT IS GOOD.
I wouldn't even nerf the rogue, simply bump up the GWF dps a bit so that initially it is ON PAR with a rogue. It just doesn't seem right that a rogue with dual daggers does more dps then big sword cleaving your guts. As the skills get higher, they balance out, it's just the initial I have problems with for GWF.
I agree, we should nerf Clerics. They can ****ing heal. How ridiculous is that??
Sarcasm aside, if Rogue is nerfed, then it becomes useless. Rogues are very squishy, if you didn't notice, and if wizards are nerfed then they aren't really "Control" Wizards anymore, are they? These 2 classes are good at one they were designed to be good at. Clerics/GWF/Guardian should never be able to beat Rogue/Wizard alone, and THAT IS GOOD.
I wouldn't even nerf the rogue, simply bump up the GWF dps a bit so that initially it is ON PAR with a rogue. It just doesn't seem right that a rogue with dual daggers does more dps then big sword cleaving your guts. As the skills get higher, they balance out, it's just the initial I have problems with for GWF.
0
burnfestingMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
i could tell this thread was another GWF yarping about OP classes
when are you going to fix the classes out. this game has been out for over a week now and already we can see wizards can do so much cc they are unstoppable, rogues at lvl 60 can 1 shot my GWF, that's right I had a rogue 1 shot me today in pvp and im ****ing pissed about it... GWF lack dps as well they need a buff, clerics in pvp out heal every little dmg you do to anyone they put that blue shield thing on the ground and no one can be killed by it. clearly there is a problem with the classes balance but we have yet to see a nerf and buff patch ???
u mad bro...? i think you should read what you're saying..."THE GAME HAS BEEN OUT FOR OVER A WEEK" WOAH a whole 8 days :O shut your mouth and relax, things take time...if you don't like your class reroll something else or quit lol
when are you going to fix the classes out. this game has been out for over a week now ....
Seriously?! People are already screaming nerf and buff ONE FREAKING WEEK into open Beta launch?!!
I am not saying classes are 100% balanced. Actually I have no idea, because it's ONLY been a WEEK!
Of all the things the devs need to work on, class balancing is ABSOLUTELY the last thing right now. Lets first talk about server integrity. Foundry bugs, other game bugs, among other things, before we start QQing about classes for God's sake. Lets not ruin this game before it even officially launches, cause we all know once players start screaming nerfs and buffs, it's often the beginning of the end.
Oh and just on a side note, this ISN'T a PvP game. I would say, it's 80% PvE.
I wouldn't even nerf the rogue, simply bump up the GWF dps a bit so that initially it is ON PAR with a rogue. It just doesn't seem right that a rogue with dual daggers does more dps then big sword cleaving your guts. As the skills get higher, they balance out, it's just the initial I have problems with for GWF.
That doesn't make sense. The GWF is in a different armor class, it shouldn't do the same amount of damage. I'm not saying it doesn't need a buff, just that the damage shouldn't be quite as high as the rogue.
0
namtemMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
That doesn't make sense. The GWF is in a different armor class, it shouldn't do the same amount of damage. I'm not saying it doesn't need a buff, just that the damage shouldn't be quite as high as the rogue.
Armor has nothing to do with weapon. A big sword slicing you apart SHOULD do more damage than a dagger stuck to your ribs, or, at the least, the same (for the sake of a game). It's just the nature of the weapon.
Seriously stop QQ. sure the TR's are strong as hell but they are also squishy. as previous comments mentioned a 5v5 means 5v5 not run around solo. work with youre team and communicate. the reason why 99% lose there matches are couse of lack of communication.
And u saying cleric is op with our daily? we pop it once then we are forced to dps instead of focus down on healing our team again. its not op atall.
Cleric needs a buff when it comes to there HOT.
and the damage/healing floating text needs a fix. tells me i healed 1200 when it only register 120.
if u got 5.6k hp and heal for 120 you can easly take that person down. Learn youre spells, read what they do and then come back here and QQ.
Armor has nothing to do with weapon. A big sword slicing you apart SHOULD do more damage than a dagger stuck to your ribs, or, at the least, the same (for the sake of a game). It's just the nature of the weapon.
Since you want to get realistic and technical, daggers have killed way more people than a great sword. It's the reason why assassins dont strap a 2hander on their back. You can see the huge weapon. You can see the Hulk carrying it and swinging it, and most likely you will get out of his way, slow him down, or just Block it and take less damage. Sure, his swing may hit 2 or 3 others as well, but they more than likely will live. On the other hand, someone lurking in the shadows and comes up behind you and in a split second you got a punctured lung, or a sliced artery, is 10 times more lethal.
GWF is meant to tank. nerd the damage of GWF.
Nerf the damage of TR couse they got such high attackspeed.
Buff the HOT on Cleric or give us a instant good heal with semi high cd.
Buff the warriors dmg.
Nerf the CC of Mages.
Thats what i have to say about it all.
Capitalization and punctuation are wonderful things.
If your GWF got 1-shot by a TR, then the TR clearly had VASTLY better gear than you.
PvP is not meant to be balanced for 1v1 fights. There's a reason we can only PvP in groups at the moment. Everything you listed off as an imbalance is what a class is supposed to bring to the table to support their teammates in PvP. If both sides are doing these "unfair" things, then you have a perfectly balanced 5v5 fight, don't you?
Assuming he isnt leaving out details... A rogue should never, EVER, 1 shot a GWF... even a pure green GWF should not be 1 shot by a pure purple rogue, no matter the spec. If they could do that to a GWF then they could 1 shot a heavily geared squishier classes too. High dps should not be the king of combat.
As for the other point... Sometimes? Sometimes it makes it fair, but then it depends on what classes you have in your group. You shouldnt 'need' any class in your group, usually in pvp its the healer that everyone 'needs'. This just leads to a lot of rage quitting when one group is literally out-classed by another.
GWF is meant to tank. nerd the damage of GWF.
Nerf the damage of TR couse they got such high attackspeed.
Buff the HOT on Cleric or give us a instant good heal with semi high cd.
Buff the warriors dmg.
Nerf the CC of Mages.
Thats what i have to say about it all.
GF's are meant to tank, thats why they have shields, tons of tanking skills, are described as tanks, and are called guardian fighters. Great Weapon Fighters are off-tanks, its a secondary, their primary is damage. And it DID get nerfed.
Since you want to get realistic and technical, daggers have killed way more people than a great sword. It's the reason why assassins dont strap a 2hander on their back. You can see the huge weapon. You can see the Hulk carrying it and swinging it, and most likely you will get out of his way, slow him down, or just Block it and take less damage. Sure, his swing may hit 2 or 3 others as well, but they more than likely will live. On the other hand, someone lurking in the shadows and comes up behind you and in a split second you got a punctured lung, or a sliced artery, is 10 times more lethal.
I'm not saying a dagger across the throat doesn't kill you as fast as a big sword cleaving your guts out. That is why rogues usually get the good crit stats and faster attack rate in games, to balance the damage of the lower base damage weapons. Hit once for a big chunk, or, hit a number times with stacked damage and spikes with crits.
0
awwyissmfbcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I want to assume this is a troll thread. I've seen GWFs take a TR from 100%-0 in about 2-3 seconds. They also have an ability that makes them immune to CC, sprint gap closer, etc. TRs can "one-shot" you if they blow everything they have on you, then they have nothing and are screwed. A light breeze could knock them over. CW cc is too much? Block or dodge it (or use other abilities you have that negate it.) I know GFs can block everything a CW throws at them. At that point, unless the CW spec'd heavily into damage, everyting else they throw at you will be laughable. So much crying on these forums from people that are terrible at this game.
Since you want to get realistic and technical, daggers have killed way more people than a great sword. It's the reason why assassins dont strap a 2hander on their back. You can see the huge weapon. You can see the Hulk carrying it and swinging it, and most likely you will get out of his way, slow him down, or just Block it and take less damage. Sure, his swing may hit 2 or 3 others as well, but they more than likely will live. On the other hand, someone lurking in the shadows and comes up behind you and in a split second you got a punctured lung, or a sliced artery, is 10 times more lethal.
That isnt technically or realistic, thats bull**** and make believe. How many people have been killed by daggers ? And how many by Great swords? Give me the numbers. Dont hav'em? **** straight you dont. But it doesnt matter because thats such a STUPID reason. How many people have been killed by mini-guns? NOT A LOT, THEY MUST NOT HURT!
Try blocking a great sword with a dagger, i dare you. And no, in real life, swords do not 'cleave' through people like in the game, a strong chop might not even take off a limb, let alone armor. Decapitation = more lethal than any of those.
It being this early after launch there are very likely some balance issues with every class at various points in the game. And in some it is blatantly obvious (my cleric wades through pve, my GWF not so much). Despite frequent playtesting and class iteration by designers, it is impossible for them to predict exactly what issues will be found with their classes when a game goes live. Expecting these issues, which very well may be new to them (or may be known issues that are already in their backlog) to be fixed within the first week of launch is patently ludicrous. They would only be able to do that if they were working on a fix before the game was even opened up.
Have some patience. Sometimes you've got to wait for dessert.
@talenel you can't just use the armor type as justification for that, you have to look at defensive capabilities as a whole. I haven't played either class extensively, so I'm far from an expert. Your conclusion (if not reasoning) may also be entirely correct, but survivability extends beyond how heavy your armour is and how much meat you've got to throw around. I've played various games wherein a lighter armoured character is harder to kill than one in heavier armour.
I want to assume this is a troll thread. I've seen GWFs take a TR from 100%-0 in about 2-3 seconds. They also have an ability that makes them immune to CC, sprint gap closer, etc. TRs can "one-shot" you if they blow everything they have on you, then they have nothing and are screwed. A light breeze could knock them over. CW cc is too much? Block or dodge it (or use other abilities you have that negate it.) I know GFs can block everything a CW throws at them. At that point, unless the CW spec'd heavily into damage, everyting else they throw at you will be laughable. So much crying on these forums from people that are terrible at this game.
They have stealth and extremely high at-will damage, hardly screwed when their skills are on cooldown (no one is) and they are not as frail as you say, maybe 15-20% less HP than a GWF if you dont include Con (since rogues dont bother with it usually) Armor Class gives marginal resistance, and the rest is Defense, which rogues can wear as much as they want of. The gap closer is arguably the worst dodge mechanic, since it doesnt 'dodge', they're the only ones who have to eat the damage/effects, everyone else can actually dodge/block it, thats why they have a CC immunity mode, they pay for it in HP.
Too many games to name end up rehashing classes because of PVP balance. Stupid stupid stupid. It ends up hurting the PVE aspect. Very few games have a particular combat set for just PVP and for PVE. Why nerf anyone? If a class really needs buffing, then just buff that class?
really is this really necessary ?? I am actually being very serious with this post I would love to see a nerf buff patch very soon
I'd prefer to see balancing. fix issues at hand, lack of threat generation from Guardians, too much threat from clerics healing. add diminishing returns to wizards crowd control abilities.
There are obvious problems with pvp, but I don't want a potentially good game being ruined for us pve players because you don't like how another class man-handled you (you know what game i'm thinking of)
Too many games to name end up rehashing classes because of PVP balance. Stupid stupid stupid. It ends up hurting the PVE aspect. Very few games have a particular combat set for just PVP and for PVE. Why nerf anyone? If a class really needs buffing, then just buff that class?
and I said the same in another thread; pvp kills games.
The minute a game goes with PVP, every kid comes out wanting to pwn every other kid and if they can't, they whine how weak their class is whether it's true or not (mostly not). Then the developers jump through hoops, nerf this, buff that, and everyone else leaves. Then the next game comes out with pvp and those same pvp players run to that game and do the same thing there.
For once, do a game with zero pvp and let us old gamers just enjoy the game.
It just happens in this instance I agree that GWF is under-powered vs the rogue at the start of the game when skill ranks and every thing else has nothing to do with it.
@talenel you can't just use the armor type as justification for that, you have to look at defensive capabilities as a whole. I haven't played either class extensively, so I'm far from an expert. Your conclusion (if not reasoning) may also be entirely correct, but survivability extends beyond how heavy your armour is and how much meat you've got to throw around. I've played various games wherein a lighter armoured character is harder to kill than one in heavier armour.
Thank you! This is the only intelligent response to my post. You are absolutely correct and I thought about mentioning it in my earlier post. I also don't have enough information to make an informed argument about it. I've only played a rogue and not all that high yet. However, the theory is sound. If the GWF did as much damage as a rogue in heavier armor and I know it also has AoE and some crowd control then it would be ridiculous. I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying it shouldn't be. Rogues have more mobility and more evasion potential and probably a bit better crowd control so it might be close, but they're really squishy.
Arguments about the realistic damage of a huge two-handed weapon are irrelevant to game balance, and actually to anything at all. There never were effective military units employing ridiculously oversized weapons like we have in these games.
0
mustgofartMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
Armor has nothing to do with weapon. A big sword slicing you apart SHOULD do more damage than a dagger stuck to your ribs, or, at the least, the same (for the sake of a game). It's just the nature of the weapon.
Greatswords were not an effective weapon, Many couldn't use them. They were used similar fashion to pikes, and spears or by infantry to strike down the opposing pikes and to hack out breaches.
A Dagger or knife is still used today. Greatswords were not used to cleave bodies for a number of reasons.
Greatswords actually fell out of use, due to ineffectiveness and difficulty to weild them.
Thus, “sometime around the middle of the 16th century it (the two-hander) disappeared from war and mutated into a form of guard and ceremonial weapon with a symbolic character.” (Kamniker and Krenn, p. 130).
Comments
You sound like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum.
This made me LOL.
First, MANY of us don't even PVP... so whining about how you can't go around ganking a class because they ganked YOU reallllly doesn't mean much to many of us. I don't CARE about pvp, and nerfing this or buffing that because a bunch of kids want to run around ganking each other is what drove me, and some others I'm sure, from games.
Second, the REASON there needs to be a re-balancing is simply when you first make a character, and you look at the damage of the skills, the rogue has the HIGHEST of the damage. It's why I am playing a rogue and not other classes, at the moment. So, yes, the GWF needs to have their dps pushed up. But, CW doesn't get good till later, which is what a mage is SUPPOSED to do. Yes, healers SHOULD be able to heal themselves, and if they are geared right, go into god-mode. GWF is the only one lacking, in my opinion.
Sarcasm aside, if Rogue is nerfed, then it becomes useless. Rogues are very squishy, if you didn't notice, and if wizards are nerfed then they aren't really "Control" Wizards anymore, are they? These 2 classes are good at one they were designed to be good at. Clerics/GWF/Guardian should never be able to beat Rogue/Wizard alone, and THAT IS GOOD.
I wouldn't even nerf the rogue, simply bump up the GWF dps a bit so that initially it is ON PAR with a rogue. It just doesn't seem right that a rogue with dual daggers does more dps then big sword cleaving your guts. As the skills get higher, they balance out, it's just the initial I have problems with for GWF.
I wouldn't even nerf the rogue, simply bump up the GWF dps a bit so that initially it is ON PAR with a rogue. It just doesn't seem right that a rogue with dual daggers does more dps then big sword cleaving your guts. As the skills get higher, they balance out, it's just the initial I have problems with for GWF.
I'm not normally an outright ***, but your post lacks reasoning of any sort.
u mad bro...? i think you should read what you're saying..."THE GAME HAS BEEN OUT FOR OVER A WEEK" WOAH a whole 8 days :O shut your mouth and relax, things take time...if you don't like your class reroll something else or quit lol
Seriously?! People are already screaming nerf and buff ONE FREAKING WEEK into open Beta launch?!!
I am not saying classes are 100% balanced. Actually I have no idea, because it's ONLY been a WEEK!
Of all the things the devs need to work on, class balancing is ABSOLUTELY the last thing right now. Lets first talk about server integrity. Foundry bugs, other game bugs, among other things, before we start QQing about classes for God's sake. Lets not ruin this game before it even officially launches, cause we all know once players start screaming nerfs and buffs, it's often the beginning of the end.
Oh and just on a side note, this ISN'T a PvP game. I would say, it's 80% PvE.
Nah you are right they arent a good balance in classes right now for pvp.
ANd yes 2h ftr are gimp ... period.
That doesn't make sense. The GWF is in a different armor class, it shouldn't do the same amount of damage. I'm not saying it doesn't need a buff, just that the damage shouldn't be quite as high as the rogue.
Armor has nothing to do with weapon. A big sword slicing you apart SHOULD do more damage than a dagger stuck to your ribs, or, at the least, the same (for the sake of a game). It's just the nature of the weapon.
And u saying cleric is op with our daily? we pop it once then we are forced to dps instead of focus down on healing our team again. its not op atall.
Cleric needs a buff when it comes to there HOT.
and the damage/healing floating text needs a fix. tells me i healed 1200 when it only register 120.
if u got 5.6k hp and heal for 120 you can easly take that person down. Learn youre spells, read what they do and then come back here and QQ.
Since you want to get realistic and technical, daggers have killed way more people than a great sword. It's the reason why assassins dont strap a 2hander on their back. You can see the huge weapon. You can see the Hulk carrying it and swinging it, and most likely you will get out of his way, slow him down, or just Block it and take less damage. Sure, his swing may hit 2 or 3 others as well, but they more than likely will live. On the other hand, someone lurking in the shadows and comes up behind you and in a split second you got a punctured lung, or a sliced artery, is 10 times more lethal.
Nerf the damage of TR couse they got such high attackspeed.
Buff the HOT on Cleric or give us a instant good heal with semi high cd.
Buff the warriors dmg.
Nerf the CC of Mages.
Thats what i have to say about it all.
Assuming he isnt leaving out details... A rogue should never, EVER, 1 shot a GWF... even a pure green GWF should not be 1 shot by a pure purple rogue, no matter the spec. If they could do that to a GWF then they could 1 shot a heavily geared squishier classes too. High dps should not be the king of combat.
As for the other point... Sometimes? Sometimes it makes it fair, but then it depends on what classes you have in your group. You shouldnt 'need' any class in your group, usually in pvp its the healer that everyone 'needs'. This just leads to a lot of rage quitting when one group is literally out-classed by another.
I'm not saying a dagger across the throat doesn't kill you as fast as a big sword cleaving your guts out. That is why rogues usually get the good crit stats and faster attack rate in games, to balance the damage of the lower base damage weapons. Hit once for a big chunk, or, hit a number times with stacked damage and spikes with crits.
That isnt technically or realistic, thats bull**** and make believe. How many people have been killed by daggers ? And how many by Great swords? Give me the numbers. Dont hav'em? **** straight you dont. But it doesnt matter because thats such a STUPID reason. How many people have been killed by mini-guns? NOT A LOT, THEY MUST NOT HURT!
Try blocking a great sword with a dagger, i dare you. And no, in real life, swords do not 'cleave' through people like in the game, a strong chop might not even take off a limb, let alone armor. Decapitation = more lethal than any of those.
Have some patience. Sometimes you've got to wait for dessert.
@talenel you can't just use the armor type as justification for that, you have to look at defensive capabilities as a whole. I haven't played either class extensively, so I'm far from an expert. Your conclusion (if not reasoning) may also be entirely correct, but survivability extends beyond how heavy your armour is and how much meat you've got to throw around. I've played various games wherein a lighter armoured character is harder to kill than one in heavier armour.
They have stealth and extremely high at-will damage, hardly screwed when their skills are on cooldown (no one is) and they are not as frail as you say, maybe 15-20% less HP than a GWF if you dont include Con (since rogues dont bother with it usually) Armor Class gives marginal resistance, and the rest is Defense, which rogues can wear as much as they want of. The gap closer is arguably the worst dodge mechanic, since it doesnt 'dodge', they're the only ones who have to eat the damage/effects, everyone else can actually dodge/block it, thats why they have a CC immunity mode, they pay for it in HP.
I'd prefer to see balancing. fix issues at hand, lack of threat generation from Guardians, too much threat from clerics healing. add diminishing returns to wizards crowd control abilities.
There are obvious problems with pvp, but I don't want a potentially good game being ruined for us pve players because you don't like how another class man-handled you (you know what game i'm thinking of)
and I said the same in another thread; pvp kills games.
The minute a game goes with PVP, every kid comes out wanting to pwn every other kid and if they can't, they whine how weak their class is whether it's true or not (mostly not). Then the developers jump through hoops, nerf this, buff that, and everyone else leaves. Then the next game comes out with pvp and those same pvp players run to that game and do the same thing there.
For once, do a game with zero pvp and let us old gamers just enjoy the game.
It just happens in this instance I agree that GWF is under-powered vs the rogue at the start of the game when skill ranks and every thing else has nothing to do with it.
Thank you! This is the only intelligent response to my post. You are absolutely correct and I thought about mentioning it in my earlier post. I also don't have enough information to make an informed argument about it. I've only played a rogue and not all that high yet. However, the theory is sound. If the GWF did as much damage as a rogue in heavier armor and I know it also has AoE and some crowd control then it would be ridiculous. I'm not saying that this is the case, I'm just saying it shouldn't be. Rogues have more mobility and more evasion potential and probably a bit better crowd control so it might be close, but they're really squishy.
Arguments about the realistic damage of a huge two-handed weapon are irrelevant to game balance, and actually to anything at all. There never were effective military units employing ridiculously oversized weapons like we have in these games.
Greatswords were not an effective weapon, Many couldn't use them. They were used similar fashion to pikes, and spears or by infantry to strike down the opposing pikes and to hack out breaches.
A Dagger or knife is still used today. Greatswords were not used to cleave bodies for a number of reasons.
Greatswords actually fell out of use, due to ineffectiveness and difficulty to weild them.