IDK where you're pulling this information from, but last time I checked STO had over 2kk active players and is one of PW's most profitable games.
And has a new, large, free expansion coming out in a month. Yeah, they're clearly dying.
Oh, and...
3x's bags=30 dollars
1x mount=20-40 dollars
1x companion= 20-40 dollars
1x bank slot enhancement=6 or 7 dollars
Mounts? Mounts are account-wide. I just spent $5 on one of the basic mounts, grabbed it on my lv20, went over to an alt, and the mount vendor has it listed as "free" for price.
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prevail517Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
Uhhh.... You already spent $200 on the game, of course you dont see a need to spend more.
Wow.... What a stupid statement. Try spending ZERO if you didn't have everything that came with the MOST EXPENSIVE FOUNDERS PACK YOU CAN BUY.
You've already spent more on the game than many ever will.
IDK where you're pulling this information from, but last time I checked STO had over 2kk active players and is one of PW's most profitable games.
IDK where yor pulling this information from, but last time i checked STO had over 2kk accounts created, as in, people that ever made an account, even if they quitted months/year ago...even if they just downloaded to test it, played 5 minutes, then decided the game wasnt for them.
sweet Jesus, Im sure Im one of those 2kk in their statistics, and i played the game for a whooping week like a year ago
simply log in for a day and you will see the real active population is less than a fraction of that.
btw, Im glad you arent arguing that the other PWE games, they ones they were directly involved in creating (hey, like this one) are all kinds of dead
IDK where yor pulling this information from, but last time i checked STO had over 2kk accounts created, as in, people that ever made an account, even if they quitted months/year ago...even if they just downloaded to test it, played 5 minutes, then decided the game wasnt for them.
sweet Jesus, Im sure Im one of those 2kk in their statistics, and i played the game for a whooping week like a year ago
simply log in for a day and you will see the real active population is less than a fraction of that.
btw, Im glad you arent arguing that the other PWE games, they ones they were directly involved in creating (hey, like this one) are all kinds of dead
Not to mention how its blatantly obvious to anyone who ever played it how much of a walking zombie corpse Champions Online is.
They havent seen any meaninful content updates in over a year unless you count vehicles, which mostly entails buying a vehicle with cash shop moneh to run a few short little skirmishes.
Folks can scream about both sides of the argument all day and one side will not convince the other of their position, though I will say having the "I hate cryptic/PWI is evil" trolls chiming in doesn't help the position of those who are legitimately concerned about the prices.
The bottom line is despite all the screaming, name calling and finger pointing as long as this cash shop is making money hand over fist ( and like it or not it is, just like STO's is) The prices will remain the same. I hear a lot of hate, angst and teeth gnashing, but I'm not seeing a lot of voting with the wallets.
"I am!!" you might say...and if that is true you are one of the minorities, because the insane number of people around the AD vendor buying Lockboxes tells me you are the minority. Also if people are buying lockboxes they are buying keys, and companions and bags and anything else high prices or no.
"Then people are stupid!!" you say? Your stupid isn't my stupid and vice versa also 14 seasons of Law and Order SVU and Celene Dions success is more proof of that than this is.
So, from the fact that the OP dropped $200 on the game already, we can see that his opinion is _GOING_ to be a little skewed.
Personally, I don't really care about the cash shop. It's overpriced, and a place where a fool and his money are soon parted.
I just wish there was a one-time fee I could pay to make sure I never see another ******* lockbox, either as a drop, or linked in a message. My bag space is limited as it is, I don't want to be forced to give up one spot for these <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 'Pay a buck for a miniscule chance at a mount' scams. You can get a sense for what your odds are by the fact that the 'consolation' prize of bars are so worthless.
*shrug* The game's pretty fun overall. Needs some serious work in PVP balance, and I can't really comment on PVE, as the lower levels are mostly just hack-fests.
Bags - don't need that many, you get 2 for FREE just questing. Stop being a pack rat and you'll have room.
Mount - Zones aren't even that big to need a mount and you can buy them in-game with gold.
Companion - You can get them with gold and they're useless anyway.
Bank Slot - See bags.
Once again you are ignoring what my post was all about ...and i will repeat myself!
Any other mmo you can play TODAY is cheaper! if you BUY a subscription mmo you get EVERYTHING this mmo offers for 15 a month, even with a release title of 60 dollars+1year sub with paying 15 a month thus NO discount for up front you are paying 240ish dollars for EVERYTHING this game offers! vs 300-400 dollars you will end up paying for things you get in this game.
Argument 1:" BUT you dont need all that bag space! "
Response: no maybe not, hoewever WoW, SWTOR, DDO, DCUO, Tera ect ect ect all give you bags for reasonable prices. Either in game or, purchasable for half the price. As a consumer i am comparing price between games, thus a game that costs half to produce is charging MORE for bags? plus its PER character. So do i need them? no but previous games have given an expectation of acquiring bags at reasonable prices. Just because you dont need it doesnt mean its ok to jack the price up 400% on an item, especially an item have to get for each character.
Mount: Argument: " its account wide, so its fine to charge 3x's normal going rate! "
Response: so its ok to pay 10 dollars for a gallon of gas then right? i mean same principle... can get it anywhere but you are willing to pay it right? well general consumer stance says otherwise. Most people arent willing to pay 30-40 dollars for a mount. That said i will agree with one thing. ITS account wide... thus makes it better over all. Can buy a mount once and never worry again so...maybe this is alright in grande scheme of things.
Companion argument: " can buy them with gold and they are useless"
Response: actually no, ones you buy in game can only reach rank 15...and thus are useless, ones you BUY in the store can achieve higher ranks. The golem for example can reach rank 30, becoming much more useful. Its actually a problem in game right now... everyone running with a companion, healer or tank and making some duties useless in game. Are a ton of posts about it take a look... again issue i have with the price here is that once again its PER character, a one time purchase...means if i want to have same companion for my other toon gotta buy it again...and again...
Bank slots: see my bags argument goes for both of us.
Your entire argument is founded on " but you dont need it so its ok" but the problem is in a gaming market have to understand one key fact! COMPETITION! is something every businessman understands. You have to compete with your competition, and that means need to have comparable prices or you end up losing customers to the other company. So is it ok to have more expensive product? absolutely! but is a differance between over priced, and being a complete ripp off. The current store crosses from expensive product to ripp off...and sorry you a rich well to do fanboy and cant see past own money. But you are a minority... you make up the 1%... a vast majority of players playing this game are NOT going to just throw money at it because they can... i have a job...i work for a living...and you know what? i refuse to pay these prices NOT because i can't but, because i know deep down... its telling the company its ok to ripp me off.
I'm done here...i've presented my facts... i've run the numbers... if you are still to blind to see the problem that is your issue not mine.
-Lokai-
25+ year D&D vet
20+ year mmo vet
15+ year f2p gamer
Middle Class Citizen
Edit: also a tidbit for everyone else...
Earning AD in game has cap of 24-25k AD per day, to earn a basic blue bah would cost you around 1.5 million AD if you did your dailys every day, earned 25k AD every single day, and never spent it on anything! would only take you 2 months to afford 1000 zen... food for thought.
My only issue with the game right now, the reason I won't be playing after beta and why I'll tell everyone I know not to play is charging for respecs. Real money for things like mounts skins and dyes I have no problem with, but charging real money for something that is a basic part of playing an mmo is exploitive. I mean if they are fine with charging real money for respecs how long before I'm paying to respawn?
I understand the developers need to make money off a game, but personally I just can't see paying five dollars every time I want to change from my farm spec to my tank spec to my pvp spec. Yea you can probably make a lot of money off a few players that way but it just puts a sour taste in my mouth, granted this isn't as bad as SWTOR charging for skill bars but its in the same vane, and the only way to stop devs from doing this is stop supporting them.
My only issue with the game right now, the reason I won't be playing after beta and why I'll tell everyone I know not to play is charging for respecs. Real money for things like mounts skins and dyes I have no problem with, but charging real money for something that is a basic part of playing an mmo is exploitive. I mean if they are fine with charging real money for respecs how long before I'm paying to respawn?
WoW charges $15 a month for respecs, whether you use them or not. Do you plan to respec more than 180 times a year? If not, you're saving money.
If you ARE planning to respec more than 180 times a year, you're doing it wrong, and you should ask for help.
Any other mmo you can play TODAY is cheaper! if you BUY a subscription mmo you get EVERYTHING this mmo offers for 15 a month, even with a release title of 60 dollars+1year sub with paying 15 a month thus NO discount for up front you are paying 240ish dollars for EVERYTHING this game offers! vs 300-400 dollars you will end up paying for things you get in this game.
I really don't think it's $300+ than a traditional subscription plan. If you pace your progression by buying 60 dollars worth of Zen/AD and keep spending 15$ a month, I think you'll find it's only slightly more expensive considering you have access to tons of content for free. Which is the balance of a F2P model. Superfans spend extra to support a larger base of "freeloaders".
People in the middle who power level to 60 in less than a week might complain, but In my personal experience with WoW and Guild Wars 2, I don't feel that I have been cheated at all with what I've experienced so far in this game. And I haven't spent a single dollar yet.
I honestly don't understand at all why people are complaining about... I got to level 60 with my cleric not even buying anything from the Zen store. I probably spent about 500k Diamonds as part of the 2 mil I got with the Founder's pack.
Is the bag space small? Sure. But you can just sell more often. You don't need to keep all bazillion variety of Runes and equipment in your bags all the time...
You don't have to identify every single piece of green armor. Just identify what you can wear and if it is an upgrade. Then vendor the rest...
I haven't even used my free-respec yet as part of the founders pack. Just read carefully what Feats and Powers do, ask higher level players if you are not sure, etc... You don't have to respec every day...
Nightmare Lockboxes? I don't care about the mount at all so I just vendor it as I have the spider mount from the Founder's... Honestly I whole heartily agree that the prices are too steep but you don't have to buy anything from the store to get to max level and run Epic Dungeons... I am pretty sure this is a case of people feeling entitled...
EDIT: Just noticed my Hero of the North title doesn't display so if one of the mods can fix that, it would be awesome!
Well you have an epic mount that basically makes you pay to win PvP. A companion capable of max level, you can respec and the countless other things that "great" value founders pack got you. Meanwhile I play feeling like I'm being strangled or getting my hand held to the zen store at every opportunity. Not a good way to convince me to support you, the game is pretty standard too nothing special. The PvE is OK but the PvP is terrible. Foundry is fun but that gets old quick.
Honestly I'll probably go back to paying Blizzard $15 month for WoW it's cheap considering you are on even ground with everyone and the possibilities you have compared to here.
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xenobiusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I find it a rather ridiculous attempt at cash-grab, that's all.
Mount prices rival (and beat) those Blizzard set for WoW, monthly "allowance" (if serious dungeon farming and/or PvP is considered) exceeds $15 by a mile, cosmetics are a bad joke gone worse compared to what Arena.net and GrindingGear offered, in-game to real currency exchange rate is awful - the list goes on.
So yeah, plenty of reasons to complain.
My only issue with the game right now, the reason I won't be playing after beta and why I'll tell everyone I know not to play is charging for respecs. Real money for things like mounts skins and dyes I have no problem with, but charging real money for something that is a basic part of playing an mmo is exploitive. I mean if they are fine with charging real money for respecs how long before I'm paying to respawn?
I understand the developers need to make money off a game, but personally I just can't see paying five dollars every time I want to change from my farm spec to my tank spec to my pvp spec. Yea you can probably make a lot of money off a few players that way but it just puts a sour taste in my mouth, granted this isn't as bad as SWTOR charging for skill bars but its in the same vane, and the only way to stop devs from doing this is stop supporting them.
Well while i agree it sucks have to " pay " for a respec... couple things have to know
1: its only to respec powers, not feat points which are your actual talents.
2: Most of your powers it looks like end up with 3 ranks in most of them regardless of how you go about it so i dont think it'll matter as much
But that said... it does suck balls they do this...however, its pretty staple thing in f2p mmos, almost all of them do it. DDO's is worse by far where if you screw up, you have to /reroll which chases alot of folks off do to the complexity of the character creation and leveling. So it doesnt surprise me they did this... and i'm just use to them doing it by now.
WoW charges $15 a month for respecs, whether you use them or not. Do you plan to respec more than 180 times a year? If not, you're saving money.
If you ARE planning to respec more than 180 times a year, you're doing it wrong, and you should ask for help.
No WoW charges you 15 dollars a month for
8 character slots
in game respecs
in game mounts
in game items of all types
in game costume and restyle
in game everything is on the item shop in this game
please dont be <noooooo!>... 15 dollars a month is buying a whole lot more then a respec...i get it you love f2p... but fact of the matter is subscription model's are more bang for your buck. You get alot more then you otherwise would in any other model of game. Think of it this way... you get everything in that item shop, for 15 dollars vs about 2000 dollars... i think i'll take 15 thanks!
WoW charges $15 a month for respecs, whether you use them or not. Do you plan to respec more than 180 times a year? If not, you're saving money.
If you ARE planning to respec more than 180 times a year, you're doing it wrong, and you should ask for help.
Charging for gameplay is just cheesy why don't they charge you to respawn or repair your gear, I mean if you die you are doing it wrong right? I really really want to play this game, I love the gameplay and I love Forgotten Realms, but I can't support a company who is willing to compromise good game design choices to exploit their fans for money.
From looking at the trees on the protection warrior I could easily see wanting to change feats based on if I'm tanking in pve or fighting in pvp, if I want to do both every day, then thats 5x365 which is $1825 a year just on respec, and thats to do it right not to do it wrong. I don't play WoW, or any games that require subs, I'm not worried about saving money, I'm worried about design decisions that are made purely to make money. At least WoW is honest about what you get for what you pay. Even if I never respec once the fact that they are willing to compromise good game design for money is just a bad model and I won't play games that do that.
Yes the game is free to play, and yes they have to make money, but imo you should make money on things like skins and mounts that don't necessarily have value to gameplay, and things that are convenience based for people who have more money than time, like xp or gold boosts. Charging for gameplay is just cheesy why don't they charge you to respawn or repair your gear, I mean if you die you are doing it wrong right?
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stanleypain007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Earning AD in game has cap of 24-25k AD per day, to earn a basic blue bah would cost you around 1.5 million AD if you did your dailys every day, earned 25k AD every single day, and never spent it on anything! would only take you 2 months to afford 1000 zen... food for thought.
Stop spreading this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fud. You certainly can make WAY more than that each day.
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jeimuzukaisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
I really want to like this game.
I really want to see it succeed.
But the in-game economy/Zen store needs to be reworked and fixed.
Games to look at for examples:
-Path of Exile (Reasonable priced cosmetic items, only cosmetic items, not pay to win or pay to progress).
-Maple Story (Cheap cosmetic items, targeting kids, kids cannot afford $10 bags). Pay to win and pay to progress are horrible ideas.
End this useless and bogus thread already. Game is Free...plain and simple. If you WANT...not NEED....to spend money on cosmetics and junk then by all means do so otherwise just go have fun ingame.
Bunch of ****ing whiners on these threads
I fell in love with this game very, very quickly... yet grew to detest it just as fast.
Say anything that you want about pay to win, pay to progress, what have you, but what kills the fun in this game for me is that it is pay TOO much to enjoy all the content.
I don't want to play a game that offers 30 treasure chests by the time I've reached level 30, and requires that I spend $30 in cash money to open these boxes. I'm a hardcore gamer, I'm going to get more than 30 boxes a month, far more, and that means that its far more than $30 a month to enjoy that content.
I don't care how worthless or trivial the boxes are, that's not the point. They could have COPPER in them, and the principle would still remain. I'm paying an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to experience ALL of the content that this game has to offer.
Why are there not items in the $60 and $200 founder packs that include everything your companions will ever need AND a skeleton key that will open every lockbox and never run out? People gave you $200 and you STILL want them to pay for more? I have no interest in ANY video game company that believes that's the way to conduct business.
Path of Exile has the perfect F2P model there is. Learn from it.
Even a subscription based game with NO cash store would be a god send for this game. Instead, I won't be logging in again unless I see that things are DRASTICALLY changed. Best of luck perfect world, now I know why I'd never played or really heard of any of your games before.
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bellaralodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
All I want is lower prices, just a little lower.. especially on the bags. Thats 10$ for bag space =/ Its going to take some time to save for just that.
Stop spreading this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fud. You certainly can make WAY more than that each day.
refining AD is capped at 24k other AD can earn is either by farming content and selling items, or random rewards from events neither of which is 100% garentee'd so far doing the skirmishes during skirmish event several times only managed the 1000 AD from the event once. So its not reliable... same for selling items... most of items unless you just flat out /need on everything that drops not going to get it reliably.
Dailys award rough astral dust
Refining rough astral dust is capped out at 24k
Thus can only earn 24k Ad per day atm...
So unless some massive Ad reward for doing epic dungeons or end game dungeons i am not aware of... i can safely say you are only able to make 24k reliably, rest you have to chalk up to random good luck and farming. Sorry i have better things to do then farm...
Edit: can also get rough AD from invocations but again can only refine 24k per day and as math suggests 1 bag would take 60 days of getting 24k rough AD thats alot of time invested for 24 bag slots... let alone something like the earth ele pet, or one of the mounts.
This is the future of "F2P": A p2w/p disguised as a f2p. The genre needs indi companies like GGG to take control and put out more F2P models like Path of Exile.
refining AD is capped at 24k other AD can earn is either by farming content and selling items, or random rewards from events neither of which is 100% garentee'd so far doing the skirmishes during skirmish event several times only managed the 1000 AD from the event once. So its not reliable... same for selling items... most of items unless you just flat out /need on everything that drops not going to get it reliably.
Dailys award rough astral dust
Refining rough astral dust is capped out at 24k
Thus can only earn 24k Ad per day atm...
So unless some massive Ad reward for doing epic dungeons or end game dungeons i am not aware of... i can safely say you are only able to make 24k reliably, rest you have to chalk up to random good luck and farming. Sorry i have better things to do then farm...
Edit: can also get rough AD from invocations but again can only refine 24k per day and as math suggests 1 bag would take 60 days of getting 24k rough AD thats alot of time invested for 24 bag slots... let alone something like the earth ele pet, or one of the mounts.
I'm sorry and, don't take this offensively, but you're wasting your time.
Do you really think the folks who will respond to this with antagonism see past the "but you CAN, throw your life away to earn bag space and play for free" stance? because that's how they justify it, there's no altering that misconception they have, I've tried.
The worst case scenario is you'll get the self entitled claim cop out go to response and then end up in a mini flame war as folks who don't look at bigger the picture, misinterpret you as someone who is claiming they NEVER want to give any money towards the folks who made the game, and have them make a straw man argument along those lines while calling you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. And then not get reprimanded at all.
Save yourself some time, give Cryptic the thumbs up they deserve for their design brilliance, which I can honestly say is FANTASTIC and has me greatly interested in their potential and a guaranteed fan now, keep up the positive feedback for them, and continually tell them that their game would be EVEN MORE of a money printer, if they weren't monetized by PWE, who are doing a hack job of it lol. Who knows, maybe they'll end up sometime in the future putting that talent into a game that THEY monetize and run and we could very end up with another brilliant F2P quality title, akin to League of Legends.
Honestly I'll probably go back to paying Blizzard $15 month for WoW it's cheap considering you are on even ground with everyone and the possibilities you have compared to here.
How to spot a Blizzard Astroturfer in one easy lesson. :rolleyes:
The entire system ruined the game before it launched. If this game was buy to play with cosmetic only microtransactions then it would have been a success. And no, this game is not high quality enough for a subscription.
he's right, tho.this f2p game makes p2p games look like charities
No he isn't rotflmao, my god anyone with an IQ above 84 can see that this constant crying is nothing more than mock outrage at best or compensated astroturfing at worse.
The entire system ruined the game before it launched. If this game was buy to play with cosmetic only microtransactions then it would have been a success. And no, this game is not high quality enough for a subscription.
No game is ever high quality enough for a subscription anymore. Even SWTOR bombed. It is nice to have the subscription model as an option for people who want to commit for some time to the game and not worry about the pay to win aspects.
I don't think you could make a successful subscription MMO with any amount of effort anymore. There are too many other options for your time that don't have the side effect of pressuring you into playing all the time since you are getting a perpetual rental. If it is an optional subscription, people would probably be more willing to do it during times where they are really into the game and then let it wane when they are in off periods.
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tootsmagootMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
D&D is suppose to be about adventure and building your character the way you want it to experience it the way you want.
This game however is just a cash store glued together by the first 3 pages of a dnd handbook.
Most other MMO's announce when something happens like hard content getting cleared. This game announces when people win when gambling with the lock boxes for some crappy horse mount which then renders their other mount to a bank slot, then others are like "oooh" then they start gambling with cash to get the same thing. Basically this is legal gambling for kids. Not a computer game.
If I get a dollar for every time I hear someone saying a game's gonna fail when it actually doesn't, I'd be a millionaire. Here's something you should consider before you start slamming NWN's pricy cash shop: there are rich kids out there who are willing to spend 2 grand a month on video games. It's happened in Jade Dynasty, it's happened in Dota, it's happened in every f2p game there is.
If a game is good, people will be willing to pay for it. You may not be willing to, but there are rich kids who will. And the same rich kids are likely enjoy handing your a$$ to you with the best gear they can buy. You either man up or pay up. Quitting is not an option if you cared enough about a game to whine about it on the forum.
This is a successful business model, and I'm willing to bet they're making a killing right now. So keep dreaming about those price drop and the dev come and truly "listen" to your "valuable" input about their price. It's not gonna happen anytime soon - not with PWE - and you'd be doing your self a favour to quit before you commit further.
PWE games are designed to make money. Nwn is not supposed to be the DnD mmo to end all mmo. You can quote me and tell me about how you 'know this already but think their price should be cheaper" or whatever you fancy, but the fact remains. 5 dollars for a respec. 30 dollars for a mount. These price tag mean nothing to the rich kids they're targeting. That is the truth.
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And has a new, large, free expansion coming out in a month. Yeah, they're clearly dying.
Oh, and...
Mounts? Mounts are account-wide. I just spent $5 on one of the basic mounts, grabbed it on my lv20, went over to an alt, and the mount vendor has it listed as "free" for price.
Wow.... What a stupid statement. Try spending ZERO if you didn't have everything that came with the MOST EXPENSIVE FOUNDERS PACK YOU CAN BUY.
You've already spent more on the game than many ever will.
IDK where yor pulling this information from, but last time i checked STO had over 2kk accounts created, as in, people that ever made an account, even if they quitted months/year ago...even if they just downloaded to test it, played 5 minutes, then decided the game wasnt for them.
sweet Jesus, Im sure Im one of those 2kk in their statistics, and i played the game for a whooping week like a year ago
simply log in for a day and you will see the real active population is less than a fraction of that.
btw, Im glad you arent arguing that the other PWE games, they ones they were directly involved in creating (hey, like this one) are all kinds of dead
Not to mention how its blatantly obvious to anyone who ever played it how much of a walking zombie corpse Champions Online is.
They havent seen any meaninful content updates in over a year unless you count vehicles, which mostly entails buying a vehicle with cash shop moneh to run a few short little skirmishes.
The bottom line is despite all the screaming, name calling and finger pointing as long as this cash shop is making money hand over fist ( and like it or not it is, just like STO's is) The prices will remain the same. I hear a lot of hate, angst and teeth gnashing, but I'm not seeing a lot of voting with the wallets.
"I am!!" you might say...and if that is true you are one of the minorities, because the insane number of people around the AD vendor buying Lockboxes tells me you are the minority. Also if people are buying lockboxes they are buying keys, and companions and bags and anything else high prices or no.
"Then people are stupid!!" you say? Your stupid isn't my stupid and vice versa also 14 seasons of Law and Order SVU and Celene Dions success is more proof of that than this is.
This is why I think that 90% of the outrage is mock and this is nothing more than forum drama, Gamers when they feel that something is truly unjust become a powerful force against it....oh look another fifty people are at the Lockbox vendor.....
Personally, I don't really care about the cash shop. It's overpriced, and a place where a fool and his money are soon parted.
I just wish there was a one-time fee I could pay to make sure I never see another ******* lockbox, either as a drop, or linked in a message. My bag space is limited as it is, I don't want to be forced to give up one spot for these <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> 'Pay a buck for a miniscule chance at a mount' scams. You can get a sense for what your odds are by the fact that the 'consolation' prize of bars are so worthless.
*shrug* The game's pretty fun overall. Needs some serious work in PVP balance, and I can't really comment on PVE, as the lower levels are mostly just hack-fests.
Once again you are ignoring what my post was all about ...and i will repeat myself!
Any other mmo you can play TODAY is cheaper! if you BUY a subscription mmo you get EVERYTHING this mmo offers for 15 a month, even with a release title of 60 dollars+1year sub with paying 15 a month thus NO discount for up front you are paying 240ish dollars for EVERYTHING this game offers! vs 300-400 dollars you will end up paying for things you get in this game.
Argument 1:" BUT you dont need all that bag space! "
Response: no maybe not, hoewever WoW, SWTOR, DDO, DCUO, Tera ect ect ect all give you bags for reasonable prices. Either in game or, purchasable for half the price. As a consumer i am comparing price between games, thus a game that costs half to produce is charging MORE for bags? plus its PER character. So do i need them? no but previous games have given an expectation of acquiring bags at reasonable prices. Just because you dont need it doesnt mean its ok to jack the price up 400% on an item, especially an item have to get for each character.
Mount: Argument: " its account wide, so its fine to charge 3x's normal going rate! "
Response: so its ok to pay 10 dollars for a gallon of gas then right? i mean same principle... can get it anywhere but you are willing to pay it right? well general consumer stance says otherwise. Most people arent willing to pay 30-40 dollars for a mount. That said i will agree with one thing. ITS account wide... thus makes it better over all. Can buy a mount once and never worry again so...maybe this is alright in grande scheme of things.
Companion argument: " can buy them with gold and they are useless"
Response: actually no, ones you buy in game can only reach rank 15...and thus are useless, ones you BUY in the store can achieve higher ranks. The golem for example can reach rank 30, becoming much more useful. Its actually a problem in game right now... everyone running with a companion, healer or tank and making some duties useless in game. Are a ton of posts about it take a look... again issue i have with the price here is that once again its PER character, a one time purchase...means if i want to have same companion for my other toon gotta buy it again...and again...
Bank slots: see my bags argument goes for both of us.
Your entire argument is founded on " but you dont need it so its ok" but the problem is in a gaming market have to understand one key fact! COMPETITION! is something every businessman understands. You have to compete with your competition, and that means need to have comparable prices or you end up losing customers to the other company. So is it ok to have more expensive product? absolutely! but is a differance between over priced, and being a complete ripp off. The current store crosses from expensive product to ripp off...and sorry you a rich well to do fanboy and cant see past own money. But you are a minority... you make up the 1%... a vast majority of players playing this game are NOT going to just throw money at it because they can... i have a job...i work for a living...and you know what? i refuse to pay these prices NOT because i can't but, because i know deep down... its telling the company its ok to ripp me off.
I'm done here...i've presented my facts... i've run the numbers... if you are still to blind to see the problem that is your issue not mine.
-Lokai-
25+ year D&D vet
20+ year mmo vet
15+ year f2p gamer
Middle Class Citizen
Edit: also a tidbit for everyone else...
Earning AD in game has cap of 24-25k AD per day, to earn a basic blue bah would cost you around 1.5 million AD if you did your dailys every day, earned 25k AD every single day, and never spent it on anything! would only take you 2 months to afford 1000 zen... food for thought.
I understand the developers need to make money off a game, but personally I just can't see paying five dollars every time I want to change from my farm spec to my tank spec to my pvp spec. Yea you can probably make a lot of money off a few players that way but it just puts a sour taste in my mouth, granted this isn't as bad as SWTOR charging for skill bars but its in the same vane, and the only way to stop devs from doing this is stop supporting them.
WoW charges $15 a month for respecs, whether you use them or not. Do you plan to respec more than 180 times a year? If not, you're saving money.
If you ARE planning to respec more than 180 times a year, you're doing it wrong, and you should ask for help.
I really don't think it's $300+ than a traditional subscription plan. If you pace your progression by buying 60 dollars worth of Zen/AD and keep spending 15$ a month, I think you'll find it's only slightly more expensive considering you have access to tons of content for free. Which is the balance of a F2P model. Superfans spend extra to support a larger base of "freeloaders".
People in the middle who power level to 60 in less than a week might complain, but In my personal experience with WoW and Guild Wars 2, I don't feel that I have been cheated at all with what I've experienced so far in this game. And I haven't spent a single dollar yet.
Well you have an epic mount that basically makes you pay to win PvP. A companion capable of max level, you can respec and the countless other things that "great" value founders pack got you. Meanwhile I play feeling like I'm being strangled or getting my hand held to the zen store at every opportunity. Not a good way to convince me to support you, the game is pretty standard too nothing special. The PvE is OK but the PvP is terrible. Foundry is fun but that gets old quick.
Honestly I'll probably go back to paying Blizzard $15 month for WoW it's cheap considering you are on even ground with everyone and the possibilities you have compared to here.
Mount prices rival (and beat) those Blizzard set for WoW, monthly "allowance" (if serious dungeon farming and/or PvP is considered) exceeds $15 by a mile, cosmetics are a bad joke gone worse compared to what Arena.net and GrindingGear offered, in-game to real currency exchange rate is awful - the list goes on.
So yeah, plenty of reasons to complain.
Well while i agree it sucks have to " pay " for a respec... couple things have to know
1: its only to respec powers, not feat points which are your actual talents.
2: Most of your powers it looks like end up with 3 ranks in most of them regardless of how you go about it so i dont think it'll matter as much
But that said... it does suck balls they do this...however, its pretty staple thing in f2p mmos, almost all of them do it. DDO's is worse by far where if you screw up, you have to /reroll which chases alot of folks off do to the complexity of the character creation and leveling. So it doesnt surprise me they did this... and i'm just use to them doing it by now.
No WoW charges you 15 dollars a month for
8 character slots
in game respecs
in game mounts
in game items of all types
in game costume and restyle
in game everything is on the item shop in this game
please dont be <noooooo!>... 15 dollars a month is buying a whole lot more then a respec...i get it you love f2p... but fact of the matter is subscription model's are more bang for your buck. You get alot more then you otherwise would in any other model of game. Think of it this way... you get everything in that item shop, for 15 dollars vs about 2000 dollars... i think i'll take 15 thanks!
Charging for gameplay is just cheesy why don't they charge you to respawn or repair your gear, I mean if you die you are doing it wrong right? I really really want to play this game, I love the gameplay and I love Forgotten Realms, but I can't support a company who is willing to compromise good game design choices to exploit their fans for money.
From looking at the trees on the protection warrior I could easily see wanting to change feats based on if I'm tanking in pve or fighting in pvp, if I want to do both every day, then thats 5x365 which is $1825 a year just on respec, and thats to do it right not to do it wrong. I don't play WoW, or any games that require subs, I'm not worried about saving money, I'm worried about design decisions that are made purely to make money. At least WoW is honest about what you get for what you pay. Even if I never respec once the fact that they are willing to compromise good game design for money is just a bad model and I won't play games that do that.
Yes the game is free to play, and yes they have to make money, but imo you should make money on things like skins and mounts that don't necessarily have value to gameplay, and things that are convenience based for people who have more money than time, like xp or gold boosts. Charging for gameplay is just cheesy why don't they charge you to respawn or repair your gear, I mean if you die you are doing it wrong right?
Stop spreading this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> fud. You certainly can make WAY more than that each day.
I really want to see it succeed.
But the in-game economy/Zen store needs to be reworked and fixed.
Games to look at for examples:
-Path of Exile (Reasonable priced cosmetic items, only cosmetic items, not pay to win or pay to progress).
-Maple Story (Cheap cosmetic items, targeting kids, kids cannot afford $10 bags).
Pay to win and pay to progress are horrible ideas.
Bunch of ****ing whiners on these threads
Say anything that you want about pay to win, pay to progress, what have you, but what kills the fun in this game for me is that it is pay TOO much to enjoy all the content.
I don't want to play a game that offers 30 treasure chests by the time I've reached level 30, and requires that I spend $30 in cash money to open these boxes. I'm a hardcore gamer, I'm going to get more than 30 boxes a month, far more, and that means that its far more than $30 a month to enjoy that content.
I don't care how worthless or trivial the boxes are, that's not the point. They could have COPPER in them, and the principle would still remain. I'm paying an absolutely ridiculous amount of money to experience ALL of the content that this game has to offer.
Why are there not items in the $60 and $200 founder packs that include everything your companions will ever need AND a skeleton key that will open every lockbox and never run out? People gave you $200 and you STILL want them to pay for more? I have no interest in ANY video game company that believes that's the way to conduct business.
Path of Exile has the perfect F2P model there is. Learn from it.
Even a subscription based game with NO cash store would be a god send for this game. Instead, I won't be logging in again unless I see that things are DRASTICALLY changed. Best of luck perfect world, now I know why I'd never played or really heard of any of your games before.
refining AD is capped at 24k other AD can earn is either by farming content and selling items, or random rewards from events neither of which is 100% garentee'd so far doing the skirmishes during skirmish event several times only managed the 1000 AD from the event once. So its not reliable... same for selling items... most of items unless you just flat out /need on everything that drops not going to get it reliably.
Dailys award rough astral dust
Refining rough astral dust is capped out at 24k
Thus can only earn 24k Ad per day atm...
So unless some massive Ad reward for doing epic dungeons or end game dungeons i am not aware of... i can safely say you are only able to make 24k reliably, rest you have to chalk up to random good luck and farming. Sorry i have better things to do then farm...
Edit: can also get rough AD from invocations but again can only refine 24k per day and as math suggests 1 bag would take 60 days of getting 24k rough AD thats alot of time invested for 24 bag slots... let alone something like the earth ele pet, or one of the mounts.
I'm sorry and, don't take this offensively, but you're wasting your time.
Do you really think the folks who will respond to this with antagonism see past the "but you CAN, throw your life away to earn bag space and play for free" stance? because that's how they justify it, there's no altering that misconception they have, I've tried.
The worst case scenario is you'll get the self entitled claim cop out go to response and then end up in a mini flame war as folks who don't look at bigger the picture, misinterpret you as someone who is claiming they NEVER want to give any money towards the folks who made the game, and have them make a straw man argument along those lines while calling you <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. And then not get reprimanded at all.
Save yourself some time, give Cryptic the thumbs up they deserve for their design brilliance, which I can honestly say is FANTASTIC and has me greatly interested in their potential and a guaranteed fan now, keep up the positive feedback for them, and continually tell them that their game would be EVEN MORE of a money printer, if they weren't monetized by PWE, who are doing a hack job of it lol. Who knows, maybe they'll end up sometime in the future putting that talent into a game that THEY monetize and run and we could very end up with another brilliant F2P quality title, akin to League of Legends.
How to spot a Blizzard Astroturfer in one easy lesson. :rolleyes:
Well we already have LoL's community...so were halfway there.
he's right, tho.this f2p game makes p2p games look like charities
No he isn't rotflmao, my god anyone with an IQ above 84 can see that this constant crying is nothing more than mock outrage at best or compensated astroturfing at worse.
No game is ever high quality enough for a subscription anymore. Even SWTOR bombed. It is nice to have the subscription model as an option for people who want to commit for some time to the game and not worry about the pay to win aspects.
I don't think you could make a successful subscription MMO with any amount of effort anymore. There are too many other options for your time that don't have the side effect of pressuring you into playing all the time since you are getting a perpetual rental. If it is an optional subscription, people would probably be more willing to do it during times where they are really into the game and then let it wane when they are in off periods.
This game however is just a cash store glued together by the first 3 pages of a dnd handbook.
Most other MMO's announce when something happens like hard content getting cleared. This game announces when people win when gambling with the lock boxes for some crappy horse mount which then renders their other mount to a bank slot, then others are like "oooh" then they start gambling with cash to get the same thing. Basically this is legal gambling for kids. Not a computer game.
If a game is good, people will be willing to pay for it. You may not be willing to, but there are rich kids who will. And the same rich kids are likely enjoy handing your a$$ to you with the best gear they can buy. You either man up or pay up. Quitting is not an option if you cared enough about a game to whine about it on the forum.
This is a successful business model, and I'm willing to bet they're making a killing right now. So keep dreaming about those price drop and the dev come and truly "listen" to your "valuable" input about their price. It's not gonna happen anytime soon - not with PWE - and you'd be doing your self a favour to quit before you commit further.
PWE games are designed to make money. Nwn is not supposed to be the DnD mmo to end all mmo. You can quote me and tell me about how you 'know this already but think their price should be cheaper" or whatever you fancy, but the fact remains. 5 dollars for a respec. 30 dollars for a mount. These price tag mean nothing to the rich kids they're targeting. That is the truth.