so because a frankly ridiculously large list of extra items (with glaring misrepresentations such as the races and classes, it has been reported that classes will be free) adds up to obviously a lot of money we are supposed to agree that prices are outrageous?
you are either ignoring the major point, or just glossing over it. for 240 dollars in 1 year, i get EVERYTHING i listed there. All of it, for 15 a month i get access to all that content cost over 300 dollars... that was my point. You cant not sit and try and claim sub games cost more, when its a known fact that item shops are always more expensive. That is the way they are designed. In this case, said shop is way over priced and you can tell because assuming i am only being 1 of those key/ward packs a month and we know most people will buy more...and even if you ignore the whole races costing its still 40-60 dollars more expensive. On top of that! THIS is for ONE character! gonna have to do this for EACH and EVERY one of my toons... and that is where it starts to add up.
For 2 characters i have to spend over 600 dollars
for 3 characters i have to spend over 900 dollars
for 4 characters i have to spend over 1000+ dollars...
but even if we just focus on ONE character its clear that the game will cost consumers more then a subscription model... alot more.
I feel that the things in the store are overpriced, but that's okay, I don't actually feel the need for most of them. I bought a health stone at one point when I ran out of pots and was in a long quest (silly me) with astral diamonds, and the only other things i might buy are bags really. I got a mount from founders, so that's okay, but I'd put up with the 5g one if i didn't have it, perhaps upgrade with AD if i ever got that much. in fact, I might upgrade my current mount when i get the AD to.
I honestly don't understand at all why people are complaining about... I got to level 60 with my cleric not even buying anything from the Zen store. I probably spent about 500k Diamonds as part of the 2 mil I got with the Founder's pack.
Good for you
Is the bag space small? Sure. But you can just sell more often. You don't need to keep all bazillion variety of Runes and equipment in your bags all the time...
Where would you put it then? You need to keep them so you can fuse them.
You don't have to identify every single piece of green armor. Just identify what you can wear and if it is an upgrade. Then vendor the rest...
Sure, but not identifying stuff means you get only 10% or so of the real value for it.
Nightmare Lockboxes? I don't care about the mount at all so I just vendor it as I have the spider mount from the Founder's... Honestly I whole heartily agree that the prices are too steep but you don't have to buy anything from the store to get to max level and run Epic Dungeons... I am pretty sure this is a case of people feeling entitled...
Yeah you have the spider mount so you are happy....
Neverwinter Online Open Beta is an ongoing success
game is free, make several accounts to hold your stuff
or spend 50 bucks as if it was not a free game, and use that currency wisely on bags and a mount - thats all you should ever need to purchase - earn the rest mmos are grindy so grind
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kromzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Paying for respec is rediculus. Especially in an MMO. The people Trolling about how you just "need to read the tooltips" are turning a blind eye to the following:
Broken tooltips (yup, still exist, lol beta amirite?)
Patches; buffs/nerfs, to classes, items, stats, mobs, you name it.
$10 bags. These at the very least need to be bound to the account, and not the character so you can swap them between characters if you decide to no longer play one. Honestly IMO for a $10 Bag every character I make should have their own version.
I don't tell me what I need to have in my bag. Talk about being an arrogant, entitled prick. Who are you to say what is appropriate for me to collect in a friggin MMORPG.. A genre thats all about LOOT for crying out loud.
I'm not bothered by the mounts. But the companions are a little ridiculous and a clear case of selling power, no denying that.
Also some of the epic enchants from the Lockboxes are crazy. Can you get them from end game dungeons and raids? I have no idea. But this is D3 Pay2Win. Same with the health stones, holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> those need to go.
I do LIKE the game. And as someone who played the old CoH/CoV I have to say I was honestly HAPPY to see Cryptic make a game as good as this after the... mess, that was Champions. Its just sad PWE is in charge of money side of things, they'll be the death of this game.
Oh, I bought a Guardian pack for $60 too. So spare me the "freeloader" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
So when I, and everyone else who is unhappy with the current state of the game stop playing, and there's only like 28 thousand total players will we still be wrong? Why are you guys defending the prices so hard? We get it you paid 100 bucks it's ok to be wrong sometimes and you should be rallying to make the game better more than anyone. Do you really want to have spent your money to play in a ghost town 6 months from now?
We all LIKE the game the people complaining enjoy PLAYING the game. Literary our only complaint as of now is the price point of items in the cash shop and somehow we are still wrong.
edit: Just to add some constructive ideas I think you don't even have to change the whole shop just bring down respec costs and bag prices and you will make 90% of us happy.
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Do people realise that the bags brought through the Zen store are transferable to your alts through the mail?
As your only playing one character at a time, empty out the Zen store brought bags and mail them to the character that you are playing.
You do not need to buy bags for all of your alts, as you do get bags from quests to hold loot on the alts that you are not playing.
I have a few issues with the Zen store. This is a long thread so if it was covered before I will admit I didn't read (as of this post) all 13 pages.
The first thing is how ridiculously often the "very rare" lockboxes are dropping. They're purple, which is defined as Very Rare, so I would expect to maybe have 1 or 2 by now. I've gotten 26 between two characters. So this tells me that they aren't actually rare, but since they require a Zen Only Key, it's a marketing ploy to get you to buy Zen.
Secondly, the laughable size of our bank. I can't think of any mmo I've played before where my starter bag is actually BIGGER than my bank. Only way to upgrade your bank? Yep, requires a Zen only purchase.
Companions range from $15-30, that is rather steep. A worg mount (forget exact name) is actually $40, which is beyond absurd.
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
Paying for respec is rediculus. Especially in an MMO. The people Trolling about how you just "need to read the tooltips" are turning a blind eye to the following:
Broken tooltips (yup, still exist, lol beta amirite?)
Patches; buffs/nerfs, to classes, items, stats, mobs, you name it.
$10 bags. These at the very least need to be bound to the account, and not the character so you can swap them between characters if you decide to no longer play one. Honestly IMO for a $10 Bag every character I make should have their own version.
I don't tell me what I need to have in my bag. Talk about being an arrogant, entitled prick. Who are you to say what is appropriate for me to collect in a friggin MMORPG.. A genre thats all about LOOT for crying out loud.
I'm not bothered by the mounts. But the companions are a little ridiculous and a clear case of selling power, no denying that.
Also some of the epic enchants from the Lockboxes are crazy. Can you get them from end game dungeons and raids? I have no idea. But this is D3 Pay2Win. Same with the health stones, holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> those need to go.
I do LIKE the game. And as someone who played the old CoH/CoV I have to say I was honestly HAPPY to see Cryptic make a game as good as this after the... mess, that was Champions. Its just sad PWE is in charge of money side of things, they'll be the death of this game.
Oh, I bought a Guardian pack for $60 too. So spare me the "freeloader" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
The Zen store bags are transferable to your alts through the mail.
I have a few issues with the Zen store. This is a long thread so if it was covered before I will admit I didn't read (as of this post) all 13 pages.
The first thing is how ridiculously often the "very rare" lockboxes are dropping. They're purple, which is defined as Very Rare, so I would expect to maybe have 1 or 2 by now. I've gotten 26 between two characters. So this tells me that they aren't actually rare, but since they require a Zen Only Key, it's a marketing ploy to get you to buy Zen.
Secondly, the laughable size of our bank. I can't think of any mmo I've played before where my starter bag is actually BIGGER than my bank. Only way to upgrade your bank? Yep, requires a Zen only purchase.
Companions range from $15-30, that is rather steep. A worg mount (forget exact name) is actually $40, which is beyond absurd.
The mounts in the Zen store can be claimed by every alt you ever create, where as the gold/Ad brought ones cannot. So if you are an altaholic, then the price isn't so bad.
I actually disagree....the health stones are brilliant....they are the perfect world cash shop example of an item that is in-expensive and thought to be needed by people. ie they are things that make people say "you can only play this game if you spend cash" or my favorite "its pay to win"
Seriously.....that's fairly funny.
And then there are the idiots who think they need to pay 15 dollars a month for all content.
News flash alert....15 dollars a month got people from worlds of warcraft...NADA....instead after 6 months they get told they have to buy and expansion for another 50 dollars to keep playing.
Yeah if you want your monthly fee then spend that 15 dollars you would pay on stuff in the cash shop...buy those dyes and other items....
As for the cash shop horses....they are all rank 1...so if you want them to be higher rank you will have to play the game to get the astral diamonds to buy the books to train them.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited May 2013
Also, companions are supposedly able to be unbound using AD so that you can sell them or send them to alts but at the moment this has not been implemented yet.
A Dev did mention this in a post a couple of days ago.
Assuming that you have at least 2 characters... assuming you actually buy good stuff off the auction house...
1x good companion 40 dollars
1x good mount 40 dollars
4x bags 40 dollars
12x dye is 5 dollars gonna need at least 3 of these for any item... so if we dye 1 full outfit, so 60 dollars!
3x bank slot 6 dollars, we'll need say 3 of these... 18 dollars
Now things we need at end game....
Keys
Wards
10 dollars roughly each... so for arguments sake say 1 of these per month...so for 12 months thats 120 dollars x2
Expansions packs: new classes, races, ect since we dont know pricing model lets assume 20 dollars a race and class sounds about in line with other games, it'll end up higher probably.
Drow: 20 dollars
Warlock: 20 dollars
Since thats only 2 announced races.
So lets see what we ended up with in just the first month for ONE character.
i get 358 dollars spent if i only buy the things above
You list a bunch of optional things here, and in vaguely-assumed quantities. Like.... $10 of keys per month? At "endgame"? Why would an endgame player need any keys at all? And all that dye is optional. And why do you need 4 & 3 inventory expansions? If we're making assumptions, why isn't 1x24 bag (plus the 18 & 12 you get in-game) enough? What all are you carrying? Assuming that Drow & Warlock (that's a race & a class, btw) will cost $20 - I've can't find a forum post, but I've seen people saying in-game that the new classes will be free.
What I do know, from playing Star Trek Online, is that once you've got a couple maxed-out characters & the initial market stablizes, it's not that hard to earn zen in-game. I've got 4k zen waiting on my STO characters for the upcoming Romulan expansion..... oh, and that expansion? The Romulan race, it's questlines, and basic ships are all free. Premium ships will cost more (just like Fed & Klingon), and then there's the character slots/bags/bank that a new character might want.
On my STO account, I've spent perhaps $20-40. But over the course of the time I played the game, I've earned 8k+ zen doing in-game things. Even opened a few dozen boxes.... while buying no more than 10-12 keys from the zen store.
So. Yeah. Me, I'm waiting to see how things turn out. I expect it to be fine. (In addition, I've seen some truly abusive cash shops from other companies, in the past year. Makes me appreciate how much worse things could be if they were really trying to screw us.)
I just want value. If I spend $60 on this game, I should have all of the same access, convenience & quality I get from, say, Guild Wars 2 when I buy it. The pack they have is ok, but I still feel it's not as good a value as other buy-to-play games. And when they want $40 for a mount I don't see how that is even remotely comparable.
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kromzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
And then there are the idiots who think they need to pay 15 dollars a month for all content.
News flash alert....15 dollars a month got people from worlds of warcraft...NADA....instead after 6 months they get told they have to buy and expansion for another 50 dollars to keep playing.
Yeah if you want your monthly fee then spend that 15 dollars you would pay on stuff in the cash shop...buy those dyes and other items....
Paying $15 a month got the players all the content from WoW without needing a Cash Shop and gave them much better endgame content then any other MMO. I would GLADLY pay $15 a month for a game if it would mean taking out an overpriced Cash Shop, removing cash grabs all over the place, and consistently updating their game. As to paying $15 dollars every month to this game, no thanks. I'm not paying these prices for items. Obviously the game is free and they need to make their money, but these prices and mechanics aren't the way. I've payed hundreds to other free games out there, definitely not planning on doing it for this one.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Do people realise that the bags brought through the Zen store are transferable to your alts through the mail?
As your only playing one character at a time, empty out the Zen store brought bags and mail them to the character that you are playing.
You do not need to buy bags for all of your alts, as you do get bags from quests to hold loot on the alts that you are not playing.
makes no sense and is in no way practical as you need to keep visiting town once your three bags are full of useless **** and nightmare lockboxes just to mail off to your toons...
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Paying $15 a month got the players all the content from WoW without needing a Cash Shop and gave them much better endgame content then any other MMO. I would GLADLY pay $15 a month for a game if it would mean taking out an overpriced Cash Shop, removing cash grabs all over the place, and consistently updating their game. As to paying $15 dollars every month to this game, no thanks. I'm not paying these prices for items. Obviously the game is free and they need to make their money, but these prices and mechanics aren't the way. I've payed hundreds to other free games out there, definitely not planning on doing it for this one.
If there was less linear progression and a deeper class system and a **** tonne of content i'd gladly pay a sub.
I just want value. If I spend $60 on this game, I should have all of the same access, convenience & quality I get from, say, Guild Wars 2 when I buy it. The pack they have is ok, but I still feel it's not as good a value as other buy-to-play games. And when they want $40 for a mount I don't see how that is even remotely comparable.
$40 for a feature you don't have in GW2 isn't really a valid comparison. Unless you have a hack to give you a mount.
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cathgar457Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
No they do not as I transfer mine between alts all the time, empty out your greater bag of holding, take it out of the bag slot and you can mail it.
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asdfqwertysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
Eh..Why complain about the Zen Store.
Cause they want me to pay for basic stuff like bags and respeccing and not only that, they want 10E for a bag and 6E for a respec, they are out of their minds.
The zen store is simply made for Americans with their daddies credit card, no logical person would spend money on a just released game with no guaranteed future, its just the first week so the servers are full and stuff, in a month we all know this wont be the case and you are gonna be.."Why did i give so much money, no one is playing, cant do anything".
I would prefer a sub if they could guarantee me an EU server so i wont have 200ms, free respeccing and crafting bags instead of this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> cash shop.
20E for a mount is a logical value, 5E for a full image-costume is a logical price.
The prices that exist right now are absurd and people need to realize this and stop purchasing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> so they will lower the prices.
Its quite obvious this game is just a complete scam riding on Dnd name for PWE to make money but for now its fun..I know i wont be playing it in a few weeks so i dont really care but i do feel sorry for those that waited for this game, but if they could actually patch the game often and add actual end-game content along with the Foundry, the game would be awesome, but we know they wont so the game will die in a couple of months.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Because some people have nothing better to do than complain about things they can't afford.
who the **** said anything about what we can and can't afford? Ignorance is a moronic trait but then again the HotN says it all. Grats.
You do realise this is free to play not FORCED to pay right?
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
makes no sense and is in no way practical as you need to keep visiting town once your three bags are full of useless **** and nightmare lockboxes just to mail off to your toons...
I'm talking about the Zen store greater bags of holding and sending the bag through the mail to whomever you are going to play on.
Not about what is in them.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What irritates me is that it's constantly in my face. Where ever I go. Whatever I do.
HotN don't troll!
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romanovxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I can't believe that the fanboys can't see this. I have to pay for proffessions, mounts, bags, companions and whatever else per character that could cost up to $80 per character. I rather pay $15 a month to get the same amount of content. I hate the F2P model I prefer the P2P.
Comments
you are either ignoring the major point, or just glossing over it. for 240 dollars in 1 year, i get EVERYTHING i listed there. All of it, for 15 a month i get access to all that content cost over 300 dollars... that was my point. You cant not sit and try and claim sub games cost more, when its a known fact that item shops are always more expensive. That is the way they are designed. In this case, said shop is way over priced and you can tell because assuming i am only being 1 of those key/ward packs a month and we know most people will buy more...and even if you ignore the whole races costing its still 40-60 dollars more expensive. On top of that! THIS is for ONE character! gonna have to do this for EACH and EVERY one of my toons... and that is where it starts to add up.
For 2 characters i have to spend over 600 dollars
for 3 characters i have to spend over 900 dollars
for 4 characters i have to spend over 1000+ dollars...
but even if we just focus on ONE character its clear that the game will cost consumers more then a subscription model... alot more.
Where would you put it then? You need to keep them so you can fuse them.
Sure, but not identifying stuff means you get only 10% or so of the real value for it.
Yeah you have the spider mount so you are happy....
or spend 50 bucks as if it was not a free game, and use that currency wisely on bags and a mount - thats all you should ever need to purchase - earn the rest mmos are grindy so grind
Broken tooltips (yup, still exist, lol beta amirite?)
Patches; buffs/nerfs, to classes, items, stats, mobs, you name it.
$10 bags. These at the very least need to be bound to the account, and not the character so you can swap them between characters if you decide to no longer play one. Honestly IMO for a $10 Bag every character I make should have their own version.
I don't tell me what I need to have in my bag. Talk about being an arrogant, entitled prick. Who are you to say what is appropriate for me to collect in a friggin MMORPG.. A genre thats all about LOOT for crying out loud.
I'm not bothered by the mounts. But the companions are a little ridiculous and a clear case of selling power, no denying that.
Also some of the epic enchants from the Lockboxes are crazy. Can you get them from end game dungeons and raids? I have no idea. But this is D3 Pay2Win. Same with the health stones, holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> those need to go.
I do LIKE the game. And as someone who played the old CoH/CoV I have to say I was honestly HAPPY to see Cryptic make a game as good as this after the... mess, that was Champions. Its just sad PWE is in charge of money side of things, they'll be the death of this game.
Oh, I bought a Guardian pack for $60 too. So spare me the "freeloader" <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
We all LIKE the game the people complaining enjoy PLAYING the game. Literary our only complaint as of now is the price point of items in the cash shop and somehow we are still wrong.
edit: Just to add some constructive ideas I think you don't even have to change the whole shop just bring down respec costs and bag prices and you will make 90% of us happy.
As your only playing one character at a time, empty out the Zen store brought bags and mail them to the character that you are playing.
You do not need to buy bags for all of your alts, as you do get bags from quests to hold loot on the alts that you are not playing.
The first thing is how ridiculously often the "very rare" lockboxes are dropping. They're purple, which is defined as Very Rare, so I would expect to maybe have 1 or 2 by now. I've gotten 26 between two characters. So this tells me that they aren't actually rare, but since they require a Zen Only Key, it's a marketing ploy to get you to buy Zen.
Secondly, the laughable size of our bank. I can't think of any mmo I've played before where my starter bag is actually BIGGER than my bank. Only way to upgrade your bank? Yep, requires a Zen only purchase.
Companions range from $15-30, that is rather steep. A worg mount (forget exact name) is actually $40, which is beyond absurd.
The Zen store bags are transferable to your alts through the mail.
The mounts in the Zen store can be claimed by every alt you ever create, where as the gold/Ad brought ones cannot. So if you are an altaholic, then the price isn't so bad.
Seriously.....that's fairly funny.
And then there are the idiots who think they need to pay 15 dollars a month for all content.
News flash alert....15 dollars a month got people from worlds of warcraft...NADA....instead after 6 months they get told they have to buy and expansion for another 50 dollars to keep playing.
Yeah if you want your monthly fee then spend that 15 dollars you would pay on stuff in the cash shop...buy those dyes and other items....
As for the cash shop horses....they are all rank 1...so if you want them to be higher rank you will have to play the game to get the astral diamonds to buy the books to train them.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
A Dev did mention this in a post a couple of days ago.
You list a bunch of optional things here, and in vaguely-assumed quantities. Like.... $10 of keys per month? At "endgame"? Why would an endgame player need any keys at all? And all that dye is optional. And why do you need 4 & 3 inventory expansions? If we're making assumptions, why isn't 1x24 bag (plus the 18 & 12 you get in-game) enough? What all are you carrying? Assuming that Drow & Warlock (that's a race & a class, btw) will cost $20 - I've can't find a forum post, but I've seen people saying in-game that the new classes will be free.
What I do know, from playing Star Trek Online, is that once you've got a couple maxed-out characters & the initial market stablizes, it's not that hard to earn zen in-game. I've got 4k zen waiting on my STO characters for the upcoming Romulan expansion..... oh, and that expansion? The Romulan race, it's questlines, and basic ships are all free. Premium ships will cost more (just like Fed & Klingon), and then there's the character slots/bags/bank that a new character might want.
On my STO account, I've spent perhaps $20-40. But over the course of the time I played the game, I've earned 8k+ zen doing in-game things. Even opened a few dozen boxes.... while buying no more than 10-12 keys from the zen store.
So. Yeah. Me, I'm waiting to see how things turn out. I expect it to be fine. (In addition, I've seen some truly abusive cash shops from other companies, in the past year. Makes me appreciate how much worse things could be if they were really trying to screw us.)
They bind to the character once you use them....
Paying $15 a month got the players all the content from WoW without needing a Cash Shop and gave them much better endgame content then any other MMO. I would GLADLY pay $15 a month for a game if it would mean taking out an overpriced Cash Shop, removing cash grabs all over the place, and consistently updating their game. As to paying $15 dollars every month to this game, no thanks. I'm not paying these prices for items. Obviously the game is free and they need to make their money, but these prices and mechanics aren't the way. I've payed hundreds to other free games out there, definitely not planning on doing it for this one.
makes no sense and is in no way practical as you need to keep visiting town once your three bags are full of useless **** and nightmare lockboxes just to mail off to your toons...
If there was less linear progression and a deeper class system and a **** tonne of content i'd gladly pay a sub.
$40 for a feature you don't have in GW2 isn't really a valid comparison. Unless you have a hack to give you a mount.
No they do not as I transfer mine between alts all the time, empty out your greater bag of holding, take it out of the bag slot and you can mail it.
Cause they want me to pay for basic stuff like bags and respeccing and not only that, they want 10E for a bag and 6E for a respec, they are out of their minds.
The zen store is simply made for Americans with their daddies credit card, no logical person would spend money on a just released game with no guaranteed future, its just the first week so the servers are full and stuff, in a month we all know this wont be the case and you are gonna be.."Why did i give so much money, no one is playing, cant do anything".
I would prefer a sub if they could guarantee me an EU server so i wont have 200ms, free respeccing and crafting bags instead of this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> cash shop.
20E for a mount is a logical value, 5E for a full image-costume is a logical price.
The prices that exist right now are absurd and people need to realize this and stop purchasing <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> so they will lower the prices.
Its quite obvious this game is just a complete scam riding on Dnd name for PWE to make money but for now its fun..I know i wont be playing it in a few weeks so i dont really care but i do feel sorry for those that waited for this game, but if they could actually patch the game often and add actual end-game content along with the Foundry, the game would be awesome, but we know they wont so the game will die in a couple of months.
who the **** said anything about what we can and can't afford? Ignorance is a moronic trait but then again the HotN says it all. Grats.
You do realise this is free to play not FORCED to pay right?
once youre level 10?
I'm talking about the Zen store greater bags of holding and sending the bag through the mail to whomever you are going to play on.
Not about what is in them.
HotN don't troll!