When you get to 60, you'll notice Rogues aren't the top dogs anymore. They may be OP in lower levels tho. The GWF really begins to shine once the rare+ equipment limit is reached.
GWF and Clerics. Clerics carries. They are like nearly invincible unless a good team can focus them down or have 1 CW just focus CC.
I haven't played GWF yet. If that is the case, sounds like a problem with that class and not the rogue being too powerful. It is a matter of making the GWF better in that sense then.
I am such a low level and don't have much experience in the game yet. I am a hardcore Guild Wars 2 player though and I had an easy time to adapt to this combat since it is very active. I still think a lot of it from my experience so far is a learn to play issue and not class balance. As a rogue I can evade other rogues fine. Though I guess I will have to see how I am when I play other classes.
I've got 3 level 30+'s. My GWF being the low man at 35. I will say he's fun in PVE against large groups, espcially with a heal companion, but he is flat out horrid in pvp. When nearly all of your skills are PBAoE based that are worth anything, and which is required for PVE'ing to have any success, its almost totally impossible to 1 v 1 anyone in the arena. Also no good pvper is going to stand in a tight group against a GWF, so good luck ever hitting more than 1 target at a time.
The other 4 classes work well and I don't see much of a balance issue for PVP. But the GWF is useless for anything other than getting assists after you die if you have good teammates.
Not true at all, instead of complaining without foundation, you should play it for a long time to see it for yourself.
Its obvious to me that you played against good players with good equip. And you are crying about it.[/
I agree. These guys are all focused on kill count and not realizing that controlling the pillars is how to win it. I probably die more than any other player and I am a rogue. I don't care if my rogue dies. I just want to win. So being a rogue the majority of the time I am up against two to three players at a time. Mainly because the majority play like scared kids not wanting to die. So they run as a group so they won't die. Funny thing is that a lot of the time I am in the top score and not for kills playing as a rogue. And I could do it on any class because everyone is afraid to run and drag multiple toons with them and go out swinging.
I've got 3 level 30+'s. My GWF being the low man at 35. I will say he's fun in PVE against large groups, espcially with a heal companion, but he is flat out horrid in pvp. When nearly all of your skills are PBAoE based that are worth anything, and which is required for PVE'ing to have any success, its almost totally impossible to 1 v 1 anyone in the arena. Also no good pvper is going to stand in a tight group against a GWF, so good luck ever hitting more than 1 target at a time.
The other 4 classes work well and I don't see much of a balance issue for PVP. But the GWF is useless for anything other than getting assists after you die if you have good teammates.
You should stick it out with your GWF till post 50. All the GWF I know that are 50 or higher are loving their dominance.
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tyler23434Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Damage aside I thinks the problem with the tr is that they outclass the cw at their own roll. There are rouge builds that hard lock much more effiecent than the cw. I'd be estatic if tr cc's scaled back in pvp as the cws do
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mlew0032Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Guess nobody here has ever really played with or against a team of fully geared TRs in epics that knew what they were doing.
I would say definitely game breaking to the point where I laugh because everyone is a TR but the difference the gear makes is very much ridiculous especially when you can crit somebody for almost 30k in PvP and 50k in PvE but I guess that's why everyone wants to use them. (it's also why me and my friends are using TRs, they make this game funny :P)
Even gear scores won't save them anyways seeing as how me and my friend 2 shot a cleric with 9910 GS and left them raging all day. (wasn't even a daily skill)
Guess nobody here has ever really played with or against a team of fully geared TRs in epics that knew what they were doing.
I would say definitely game breaking to the point where I laugh because everyone is a TR but the difference the gear makes is very much ridiculous especially when you can crit somebody for almost 30k in PvP and 50k in PvE but I guess that's why everyone wants to use them. (it's also why me and my friends are using TRs, they make this game funny :P)
Even gear scores won't save them anyways seeing as how me and my friend 2 shot a cleric with 9910 GS and left them raging all day. (wasn't even a daily skill)
You should make a video for us showing your awesomeness.
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xerathornMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I have a TR (lvl 32 with nice gear for my lvl).... such a fun class to play... so tanky, lots of cc and mega dps.... SO MUCH FUN. Hope they buff the GWF, because the GWF should ruin all others in a normal d&d game
When you get to 60, you'll notice Rogues aren't the top dogs anymore.
I haven't noticed this. My CW had no problems with rogues from 1-59. He does at 60. Clerics, yes, I don't know which class can reliably kill one in an acceptable span of time.
I'm having flash-backs of wow threads reading this one
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gukterMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 29Arc User
edited May 2013
What I've read from this thread is very simple.
People really don't seem to understand that this is D&D rules, more or less. GWF? Defender. GF? Defender. CW? Controller. Cleric? Leader. TR? Striker. There is no other Striker in the game yet. Strikers are the main dps class. Period. Everyone else -should- be a bit behind. Hell, I play a GWF as a main and I understand this yet it does not stop me from -trying- to best them with skill in the end. It's not impossible, but it is hard. I enjoy my own gamestyle and I hope people would enjoy theirs also, and not just whine of TR:s who actually are strikers. Not controllers, not defenders and not leaders. Strikers. Read up on those from the D&D 4th edition book, please.
I haven't noticed this. My CW had no problems with rogues from 1-59. He does at 60. Clerics, yes, I don't know which class can reliably kill one in an acceptable span of time.
This means you aren't being killed by a rogue and are killing a rogue but its taking you longer then what you feel is acceptable. Which also means the rogue is trying to kill you and then eventually being killed in your unacceptable time span.
This means you aren't being killed by a rogue and are killing a rogue but its taking you longer then what you feel is acceptable. Which also means the rogue is trying to kill you and then eventually being killed in your unacceptable time span. Hmm. Wonder how that rogue feels.
No, this means there is a difference between five seconds and a minute.
Thank you. Please don't start the nerf rogues HAMSTER. This happened in WoW when less skilled players were constantly getting stomped by Rogues in BGs, so Blizzard caved in to their whining and nerfed the class into oblivion, making them close to worthless in Raids. It took almost a year for them to rebalance to the point where Rogues were competitive again.
So true, I only played WoW durning the Burning Crusade, because that new dumb proof trash talent and skill system is just suck plus the fact that they squashed most passive skills, which made the abckbone of my char,since i lkie taht when i have as few as possible active skills, so i dont have to focus pushing 25 hotkeys in good order. My combat rogue 1/4 as good as it was before. And i hate when i cant customize my characters. So stop crying if you ppl dont want this games system end up like WoW's now.
And rogue is in any, lets say 'D&D' fantasy mmo are pvp specialist. Apart from that, every class have it own uses. Rogue here more likely to 'look good' that why lot of ppl like it, but if ii go tho the bazaar or anywhere else in the main city i dont see the "80%" rogue ^^. Oh, and remeber there are one class still to be introduced, and i think it going to be something ranged, like the hunter in WoW, who uses projectile weapons. So dont worry, that class could be very cunning in pvp, like the Sniper in SWTOR.
One last thing, pvp is truely the lets say, secondary aspect of the game, so harcore pvp-ers be silent, because annyoying when you just play thatone part of the game, nothing else then criticize the whole game. There are several pvp focused game in the market, if you dont like this one .
What I've read from this thread is very simple.
GWF? Defender. GF? Defender. CW? Controller. Cleric? Leader. TR? Striker. There is no other Striker in the game yet. Strikers are the main dps class. Period. Everyone else -should- be a bit behind.
We can see that division of classes in PvE. But why then, they make Pvp?? PvP MUST BE BALlNCED. And: "Everyone else -should- be a bit behind." What sense playing with other class than TR then in PvP??
I know that one class is stronger than another, but not that much, that no1 can kills them. I am talking about low lvl PvP < 20 lvl.
No, this means there is a difference between five seconds and a minute.
I just really don't get this. You think it is ok for you to kill a rogue in 5 secs and also think its ok for the rogue to take 1 minute to kill you. Sounds to me like its an even and long dragged out fight and one or the other class comes out on top. Sounds balanced to me. Just saying.
This also means it is taking a minute for the rogue trying to kill you and dieing.
If a rogue at 60 needs a minute to kill a CW, they may want to ask for advice on how to improve their strategy. If you, at 60, manage to kill a cleric in five seconds, please go ahead and let us share in on the secret!
(Either you or I need a coffee, because you make zero sense, you know! I will do an experiment and get a refill!)
I haven't noticed this. My CW had no problems with rogues from 1-59. He does at 60. Clerics, yes, I don't know which class can reliably kill one in an acceptable span of time.
Fix this statement them. According to this some class is killing a rogue it is taking a very long time and the rogue dies and it is taking the rogue 1 minute to not kill the other toon and eventually die.
Sounds like to many people have the LTP issue. Stop playing solo in pvp and play with a organized group on vent. If you are not playing as a team then yes 9 times out of 10 a good rogue will destroy you but if you play as a organized team you can shut down the rogues easily.
Stop crying and LTP....just saying.
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encadiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 67
edited May 2013
I agree playing anything but a rogue is pointless atm, they need quite a HARD hit with the nurf bat
I just really don't get this. You think it is ok for you to kill a rogue in 5 secs and also think its ok for the rogue to take 1 minute to kill you. Sounds to me like its an even and long dragged out fight and one or the other class comes out on top. Sounds balanced to me. Just saying.
No, you are not reading correctly, or I put this poorly. At 60, as a CW, I cannot kill rogues in many cases. I get killed by them in seconds. The "taking long" reference was to Clerics, at 60. Look at the post again. This explains why you didn't make sense to me. I'll still get the coffee!
Note that one statement was about 1-59 and one about 60.
No, you are not reading correctly, or I put this poorly. At 60, as a CW, I cannot kill rogues in many cases. I get killed by them in seconds. The "taking long" reference was to Clerics, at 60. Look at the post again. This explains why you didn't make sense to me. I'll still get the coffee!
Note that one statement was about 1-59 and one about 60.
Ok so the rogue can kill you in 5 secs but then it takes a minute to to try and kill a cleric but eventually die. So then you must believe clerics are balanced against rogues because they can kill rogues and rogues can't kill them and even if they did it is still in a unacceptable time frame.
No, you are not reading correctly, or I put this poorly. At 60, as a CW, I cannot kill rogues in many cases. I get killed by them in seconds. The "taking long" reference was to Clerics, at 60. Look at the post again. This explains why you didn't make sense to me. I'll still get the coffee!
Note that one statement was about 1-59 and one about 60.
What is your point exactly, you will not kill a equally geared/skilled rogue 1 vs 1 most of the time and this is where everyone is thinking wrong. Everyone thinks they should be a 1 man killing machine but the game and pvp is not designed that way. You TEAM up and play as a team, organization is the key. Stick together, call targets and you will smash any Rogue they tries to jump on you. Get out of the " I am awesome and should be able to kill everyone and anyone solo " mindset because it does not work like that at all, period!
Seriously everyone stop ****ing crying and calling for nerfs when most of you have no idea what you are talking about and learn to PVP!
I play rogue, I usually always play a rogue character; two blades, sneaking around and stabbing stuff. I love it. Neverwinter has been my first experience with PvP, my TR is in his 40's and I haven't played other classes yet.
There will always be calls for nerfing classes, but I found that it usually always starts with people *****ing about the OPness of rogues after they've taken a hit or two. My guess, people don't like other people going invisible. Stuns and dazes leave you without control, which is frustrating, but a stealth fighter leaves you vulnerable without a target. People don't like that. And some people cry "Nerf" to deal with that frustration.
But that's just 2 cents worth of speculation.
In my experience,
PvE: can't be done without a cleric companion. I need her for the heals and as diversionary punching bag while I run around dodging stuff hoping my stealth returns in time. Small groups of lowerlevels are easy, I run up, stealth, drop a decoy and start slashing. They're usually down when I drop stealth. But if anything goes wrong, like backup popping up or a heavy hitter, I'm running and dodging like I was peppersprayed.
PvP: I get other players and they get me. Soft targets are easier, tanks need more work, clerics are very difficult and rogues are tricky (excuse the pun). But the only thing I saw that made any real difference, was skill and teamwork.
I don't care what class is considered OP, when you solo that class in a PvP TEAM setting, you're gimping yourself. And no amount of nerfbatting any other class will compensate for your own incompetence.
What is your point exactly, you will not kill a equally geared/skilled rogue 1 vs 1 most of the time and this is where everyone is thinking wrong. Everyone thinks they should be a 1 man killing machine but the game and pvp is not designed that way.
This is 5v5, with three nodes. I mentioned before that 1v1 is not a common scenario (maps are too small), but encounters only involve few people and they are fast and short. If one class can kill others significantly faster, then this class does have an disproportionally large impact on the outcome. My take on this would be different if this were 20v20 or 40v40, but it isn't.
Just to clarify: I'm not asking for nerfs for TRs at this time. The game is too new and gear gaps are too steep, and there is the L2P element. What I commented on are claims that TRs are somehow underdogs at 60 or that getting killed in seconds is something that suddenly goes away at max level. Half the people who comment here have not played any L60 PvP matches at all, which applies to both the complainers and the apologists. But no, I would not want any class nerfed at this point and I disagree with the OP's take on the topic.
Sounds like to many people have the LTP issue. Stop playing solo in pvp and play with a organized group on vent. If you are not playing as a team then yes 9 times out of 10 a good rogue will destroy you but if you play as a organized team you can shut down the rogues easily.
Stop crying and LTP....just saying.
^ This.
Too many selfish players who won't be satisfied until their class is capable of destroying, 1 vs. 1, any other class. If you are finding rogues too difficult to kill 1 vs. 1, then don't fight them 1 vs. 1. Likewise for rogues who complain of being CC'd to death by 1 or 2 CWs. If you can't take down a Wizard or a Cleric, coordinate your team better, and you will.
There ARE balance issues. Naturally. There always are, well into a game's launch. But it is FAR TOO EARLY for any meaningful judgement to be made on an issue of PvP balance, made obvious by the conflicting complaints we are seeing everywhere. Rogues are both OP and too easily CC'd to death.... hmmm.. how to fix something being too weak and too strong?
1. CWs have too much CC! There's no way to counter them!
2. My CW is too weak, rogues keep killing me!
(I've experienced a couple of very good CWs who just don't let my TR get close enough to them. Soon as stealth is up, they repel, stun-lock, freeze, repel. It depends on quality of player.)
I don't see how the current mixed-bag of contrary complaints is resolveable yet.
I'll just say it straight:
CW is made for control, even so, the duration of their stuns is 1/3 in pvp compared to what it is in pve..... Already nerfed enough
TR, as the name suggests, is a squishy character who must kill quickly not to be killed.... Though i admit it's no easy task, but it can be done. I've done it, both in solo and teamplay.... But if you want things done for you instead of doing it yourself, go to a hospital.
DC are pretty decent, though the aggro for some of their heals in PvE is horribly high.
GFs aren't the flavor of the month class, we all know why.
And here we go with GWFs: I have played them but not high enough to state more than i've seen.
Now, PvP isn't made for 1v1, this has been stated tens of thousands of times across the history of MMORPGs, i don't need to show evidence about that here, go get it yourself, shouldn't be hard.
If you PvP, bring a team, because unless you can defeat a whole PUG without it as a rogue, with all of them 5 attacking you at the same time, you are just another whiner who doesn't have either skill or time to grind for gear to compensate.... And nothing is OP....
For the matter of GWFs, yes they are underpowered, but only at low levels. After level 40, they become what you think rogues are.... so yeah, go somewhere else if you are here to whine..... We don't like whiners nor "I-have-the-facts-but-no-evidence-about-them-ish" people. Should you come back, be ready to do things yourself....
This is 5v5, with three nodes. I mentioned before that 1v1 is not a common scenario (maps are too small), but encounters only involve few people and they are fast and short. If one class can kill others significantly faster, then this class does have an disproportionally large impact on the outcome. My take on this would be different if this were 20v20 or 40v40, but it isn't.
Just to clarify: I'm not asking for nerfs for TRs at this time. The game is too new and gear gaps are too steep, and there is the L2P element. What I commented on are claims that TRs are somehow underdogs at 60 or that getting killed in seconds is something that suddenly goes away at max level. Half the people who comment here have not played any L60 PvP matches at all, which applies to both the complainers and the apologists. But no, I would not want any class nerfed at this point and I disagree with the OP's take on the topic.
Here is the thing. I play a rogue. I play a rogue like a psychotic kamikaze. As soon as the door lifts you will notice a few things about your team if you pug like me. There is the player that always goes to the back pillar. This is the player that is scared to be killed and unsure of his skills. Sometimes you will see two or even three players at their home pillar just wanting to get on the scoreboard. Then there are the rest that go to middle. Then every once in a very weird day you may run into a player like myself. I don't go the long way. to the opposite teams pillar I go straight past the middle and up to the far end.
Sometimes players just let me go most of the time they give chase. Every now and then I kill the one guy in the back. The majority of the time I die. But in the process my team is usually up 100 points to start. The thing is I really don't care if I die. I just want the win. I do what no other player does. I push the fight to their side and sacrifice myself in the process. But I win most of the time because of it.
I don't get on the forums crying about how everyone teams up on me because I'm a rogue. Because they do. I don't have the biggest kill count in fact a large amount of the time I have more deaths then kills. But I also end up in the high score a lot also. I don't cry that I die too much. I am usually at the top on being killed. I don't care I want the points, so I can have the good gear at end game.
Rogues may be tough one on one but I have run into my fairshare of cw that kill me quite easily and I have run into cw that I kill quite easily. If your having a tough time you may want to reflect on your playstyle and what you need to change to be more competitive if you find yourself lacking.
Comments
GWF and Clerics. Clerics carries. They are like nearly invincible unless a good team can focus them down or have 1 CW just focus CC.
I've got 3 level 30+'s. My GWF being the low man at 35. I will say he's fun in PVE against large groups, espcially with a heal companion, but he is flat out horrid in pvp. When nearly all of your skills are PBAoE based that are worth anything, and which is required for PVE'ing to have any success, its almost totally impossible to 1 v 1 anyone in the arena. Also no good pvper is going to stand in a tight group against a GWF, so good luck ever hitting more than 1 target at a time.
The other 4 classes work well and I don't see much of a balance issue for PVP. But the GWF is useless for anything other than getting assists after you die if you have good teammates.
You should stick it out with your GWF till post 50. All the GWF I know that are 50 or higher are loving their dominance.
I would say definitely game breaking to the point where I laugh because everyone is a TR but the difference the gear makes is very much ridiculous especially when you can crit somebody for almost 30k in PvP and 50k in PvE but I guess that's why everyone wants to use them. (it's also why me and my friends are using TRs, they make this game funny :P)
Even gear scores won't save them anyways seeing as how me and my friend 2 shot a cleric with 9910 GS and left them raging all day. (wasn't even a daily skill)
Characters:
Ellamae - Level 60 CW (12.1k T2 Geared)
Norros - Level 60 TR (12.1k T2 Geared)
Keira - Level 60 GF (13.2k T2 Geared)
Mialee - Level 60 DC (12.2k T2 Geared)
Thoradin - Level 60 GWF (12.8k T2 Geared)
You should make a video for us showing your awesomeness.
I haven't noticed this. My CW had no problems with rogues from 1-59. He does at 60. Clerics, yes, I don't know which class can reliably kill one in an acceptable span of time.
People really don't seem to understand that this is D&D rules, more or less. GWF? Defender. GF? Defender. CW? Controller. Cleric? Leader. TR? Striker. There is no other Striker in the game yet. Strikers are the main dps class. Period. Everyone else -should- be a bit behind. Hell, I play a GWF as a main and I understand this yet it does not stop me from -trying- to best them with skill in the end. It's not impossible, but it is hard. I enjoy my own gamestyle and I hope people would enjoy theirs also, and not just whine of TR:s who actually are strikers. Not controllers, not defenders and not leaders. Strikers. Read up on those from the D&D 4th edition book, please.
This means you aren't being killed by a rogue and are killing a rogue but its taking you longer then what you feel is acceptable. Which also means the rogue is trying to kill you and then eventually being killed in your unacceptable time span.
Hmm. Wonder how that rogue feels.
No, this means there is a difference between five seconds and a minute.
So true, I only played WoW durning the Burning Crusade, because that new dumb proof trash talent and skill system is just suck plus the fact that they squashed most passive skills, which made the abckbone of my char,since i lkie taht when i have as few as possible active skills, so i dont have to focus pushing 25 hotkeys in good order. My combat rogue 1/4 as good as it was before. And i hate when i cant customize my characters. So stop crying if you ppl dont want this games system end up like WoW's now.
And rogue is in any, lets say 'D&D' fantasy mmo are pvp specialist. Apart from that, every class have it own uses. Rogue here more likely to 'look good' that why lot of ppl like it, but if ii go tho the bazaar or anywhere else in the main city i dont see the "80%" rogue ^^. Oh, and remeber there are one class still to be introduced, and i think it going to be something ranged, like the hunter in WoW, who uses projectile weapons. So dont worry, that class could be very cunning in pvp, like the Sniper in SWTOR.
One last thing, pvp is truely the lets say, secondary aspect of the game, so harcore pvp-ers be silent, because annyoying when you just play thatone part of the game, nothing else then criticize the whole game. There are several pvp focused game in the market, if you dont like this one .
We can see that division of classes in PvE. But why then, they make Pvp?? PvP MUST BE BALlNCED. And: "Everyone else -should- be a bit behind." What sense playing with other class than TR then in PvP??
I know that one class is stronger than another, but not that much, that no1 can kills them. I am talking about low lvl PvP < 20 lvl.
This also means it is taking a minute for the rogue trying to kill you and being killed by you.
I just really don't get this. You think it is ok for you to kill a rogue in 5 secs and also think its ok for the rogue to take 1 minute to kill you. Sounds to me like its an even and long dragged out fight and one or the other class comes out on top. Sounds balanced to me. Just saying.
If a rogue at 60 needs a minute to kill a CW, they may want to ask for advice on how to improve their strategy. If you, at 60, manage to kill a cleric in five seconds, please go ahead and let us share in on the secret!
(Either you or I need a coffee, because you make zero sense, you know! I will do an experiment and get a refill!)
Fix this statement them. According to this some class is killing a rogue it is taking a very long time and the rogue dies and it is taking the rogue 1 minute to not kill the other toon and eventually die.
Stop crying and LTP....just saying.
No, you are not reading correctly, or I put this poorly. At 60, as a CW, I cannot kill rogues in many cases. I get killed by them in seconds. The "taking long" reference was to Clerics, at 60. Look at the post again. This explains why you didn't make sense to me. I'll still get the coffee!
Note that one statement was about 1-59 and one about 60.
Ok so the rogue can kill you in 5 secs but then it takes a minute to to try and kill a cleric but eventually die. So then you must believe clerics are balanced against rogues because they can kill rogues and rogues can't kill them and even if they did it is still in a unacceptable time frame.
What is your solution?
What is your point exactly, you will not kill a equally geared/skilled rogue 1 vs 1 most of the time and this is where everyone is thinking wrong. Everyone thinks they should be a 1 man killing machine but the game and pvp is not designed that way. You TEAM up and play as a team, organization is the key. Stick together, call targets and you will smash any Rogue they tries to jump on you. Get out of the " I am awesome and should be able to kill everyone and anyone solo " mindset because it does not work like that at all, period!
Seriously everyone stop ****ing crying and calling for nerfs when most of you have no idea what you are talking about and learn to PVP!
I play rogue, I usually always play a rogue character; two blades, sneaking around and stabbing stuff. I love it. Neverwinter has been my first experience with PvP, my TR is in his 40's and I haven't played other classes yet.
There will always be calls for nerfing classes, but I found that it usually always starts with people *****ing about the OPness of rogues after they've taken a hit or two. My guess, people don't like other people going invisible. Stuns and dazes leave you without control, which is frustrating, but a stealth fighter leaves you vulnerable without a target. People don't like that. And some people cry "Nerf" to deal with that frustration.
But that's just 2 cents worth of speculation.
In my experience,
PvE: can't be done without a cleric companion. I need her for the heals and as diversionary punching bag while I run around dodging stuff hoping my stealth returns in time. Small groups of lowerlevels are easy, I run up, stealth, drop a decoy and start slashing. They're usually down when I drop stealth. But if anything goes wrong, like backup popping up or a heavy hitter, I'm running and dodging like I was peppersprayed.
PvP: I get other players and they get me. Soft targets are easier, tanks need more work, clerics are very difficult and rogues are tricky (excuse the pun). But the only thing I saw that made any real difference, was skill and teamwork.
I don't care what class is considered OP, when you solo that class in a PvP TEAM setting, you're gimping yourself. And no amount of nerfbatting any other class will compensate for your own incompetence.
Y
This is 5v5, with three nodes. I mentioned before that 1v1 is not a common scenario (maps are too small), but encounters only involve few people and they are fast and short. If one class can kill others significantly faster, then this class does have an disproportionally large impact on the outcome. My take on this would be different if this were 20v20 or 40v40, but it isn't.
Just to clarify: I'm not asking for nerfs for TRs at this time. The game is too new and gear gaps are too steep, and there is the L2P element. What I commented on are claims that TRs are somehow underdogs at 60 or that getting killed in seconds is something that suddenly goes away at max level. Half the people who comment here have not played any L60 PvP matches at all, which applies to both the complainers and the apologists. But no, I would not want any class nerfed at this point and I disagree with the OP's take on the topic.
^ This.
Too many selfish players who won't be satisfied until their class is capable of destroying, 1 vs. 1, any other class. If you are finding rogues too difficult to kill 1 vs. 1, then don't fight them 1 vs. 1. Likewise for rogues who complain of being CC'd to death by 1 or 2 CWs. If you can't take down a Wizard or a Cleric, coordinate your team better, and you will.
There ARE balance issues. Naturally. There always are, well into a game's launch. But it is FAR TOO EARLY for any meaningful judgement to be made on an issue of PvP balance, made obvious by the conflicting complaints we are seeing everywhere. Rogues are both OP and too easily CC'd to death.... hmmm.. how to fix something being too weak and too strong?
1. CWs have too much CC! There's no way to counter them!
2. My CW is too weak, rogues keep killing me!
(I've experienced a couple of very good CWs who just don't let my TR get close enough to them. Soon as stealth is up, they repel, stun-lock, freeze, repel. It depends on quality of player.)
I don't see how the current mixed-bag of contrary complaints is resolveable yet.
CW is made for control, even so, the duration of their stuns is 1/3 in pvp compared to what it is in pve..... Already nerfed enough
TR, as the name suggests, is a squishy character who must kill quickly not to be killed.... Though i admit it's no easy task, but it can be done. I've done it, both in solo and teamplay.... But if you want things done for you instead of doing it yourself, go to a hospital.
DC are pretty decent, though the aggro for some of their heals in PvE is horribly high.
GFs aren't the flavor of the month class, we all know why.
And here we go with GWFs: I have played them but not high enough to state more than i've seen.
Now, PvP isn't made for 1v1, this has been stated tens of thousands of times across the history of MMORPGs, i don't need to show evidence about that here, go get it yourself, shouldn't be hard.
If you PvP, bring a team, because unless you can defeat a whole PUG without it as a rogue, with all of them 5 attacking you at the same time, you are just another whiner who doesn't have either skill or time to grind for gear to compensate.... And nothing is OP....
For the matter of GWFs, yes they are underpowered, but only at low levels. After level 40, they become what you think rogues are.... so yeah, go somewhere else if you are here to whine..... We don't like whiners nor "I-have-the-facts-but-no-evidence-about-them-ish" people. Should you come back, be ready to do things yourself....
Here is the thing. I play a rogue. I play a rogue like a psychotic kamikaze. As soon as the door lifts you will notice a few things about your team if you pug like me. There is the player that always goes to the back pillar. This is the player that is scared to be killed and unsure of his skills. Sometimes you will see two or even three players at their home pillar just wanting to get on the scoreboard. Then there are the rest that go to middle. Then every once in a very weird day you may run into a player like myself. I don't go the long way. to the opposite teams pillar I go straight past the middle and up to the far end.
Sometimes players just let me go most of the time they give chase. Every now and then I kill the one guy in the back. The majority of the time I die. But in the process my team is usually up 100 points to start. The thing is I really don't care if I die. I just want the win. I do what no other player does. I push the fight to their side and sacrifice myself in the process. But I win most of the time because of it.
I don't get on the forums crying about how everyone teams up on me because I'm a rogue. Because they do. I don't have the biggest kill count in fact a large amount of the time I have more deaths then kills. But I also end up in the high score a lot also. I don't cry that I die too much. I am usually at the top on being killed. I don't care I want the points, so I can have the good gear at end game.
Rogues may be tough one on one but I have run into my fairshare of cw that kill me quite easily and I have run into cw that I kill quite easily. If your having a tough time you may want to reflect on your playstyle and what you need to change to be more competitive if you find yourself lacking.