The OP should learn the Rogue class more before writing a post like this
The OP lists many abilities but rogue can use 3 encounter abilities, if rogue chooses silence + burst + shadowstep that rogue can be CC ed really easy, if rogue chooses silence + burst + imnue CC that rogue can not be CC ed long but it can be kited since he has no shadowstep or slow..
There are bunch of rogue options and specs.. a lot of people play with rogue so the OP encounters them a lot and the OP thinks every rogue has bunch of OP ability at the same time.. in reality Rogue has good abilities for PvP and for Single target PvE dps, however, rogue can use 3 of em at the same time and they have average 20 sec CD
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roadkillaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
tr is the only striker in the game as of now.
ranger and warlock are coming I suppose you might as well start some nerf ranger and nerf warlock threads now.
tr is fine as it is ltp your class.
I do think the TR is currently a bit too strong. I would not say his dps is the biggest problem, he is a single target dps, a striker after all. The problem is his combined utility/strength!
The TR just simply has too many tools, like the poster above listed. I like how half of the people hate/defend the TR but haven't even reached lvl 60 (nor did I, I am only lvl 42, but I have played about 30 PvP matches so far). The situation I have encountered is the following...
TR have a gap closer (teleports him behind the target)
TR have a silence/stun w/e which prevents you from doing anything but running for 3 seconds(ish) - yes it is dodge-able but who can dodge it 100% of the time?
TR have a slow they can put on you, which makes it a tad bit harder to kite, but it's ok imo
TR have a ranged attack - which kind of rounds out their kit - they gapclose and use the HUGE *** KNIFE - awsome burst, you kite etc etc, but at the end when I have zero HP he just stands still and throws his little knives and I am dead nontheless
TR are tougher than they look - not as tough as a GF or GWF but still
TR have their stealth - yes you can hear when they enter it but it is still a great great tool!
TR have dodge mechanic - which they can use to avoid a lot of CC from other classes
I think you are starting to see my point here...there is just too many skills and utilities for one class imo. They shouldn't be hitting the dmg part of it, he's a striker after all, but this many options to go - it's just unfair against other classes I think. Every class has it's strengths and it's weaknesses but the TR seems to have less of the latter
I had my ups and downs as a control wizzard. In some games I stomped in some games I GOT stomped. It feels a lot more balanced - every CC skill of mine is easy to dodge if you know when to do it I stomped TRs and I also got stomped by some. All I think is the TR class needs some tweaks to make it more balanced in PvP and also PvE probably!
Just my two cents!
Anathera
Agreed I don't know why they took the CW cc away and left the rogues unchanged. They call us control wizards but the rogues have as better cc IMO. 1 sec stun vs three secs no abilities plus plenty more damage. It is frankly ridiculous. I want to wait until cap settles in but it is obvious from the player base and the type of players rolling rogues. that hey are OP.
I spend cash on this game and I like to play casters and nothing will drive me away faster than an unbalancedsystem.
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dracc79Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I don't play a Rogue, but from what I've experienced in PVP they can be dealt with if you play correctly. I am a wiz but most classes have a dodge mechanic and some kind of stun/snare so... learn to play basically.
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
Learn to play is a very idiotic and vague statment, it doesnt work when everyone already knows their class and that isent even the issue, the issue is rogues who are GOOD, we arent talking about the bads, have too much of a advantage over other good players who use diffrent classes, please get the issue straight before posting useless posts
I don't play a Rogue, but from what I've experienced in PVP they can be dealt with if you play correctly. I am a wiz but most classes have a dodge mechanic and some kind of stun/snare so... learn to play basically.
Well im not lv60 yet..
but CW are insane CCers.. and their "stamina" or w/e they use to dodge.. rechages insanely quick..
every CW i fight is constantly dodging and landing that "stun/silence" u guys talk so much abt from rogues.. is just impossible..
besides being a almost 2s casting skill, wich makes it really easy to dodge, they can just spam or catch you mid cast and CC you first with the insta cast CCs..
the only thing i'v seen is that they dont have a lot of burst dmg.. but they own on CC/surviability(dodging)..
Game it's new and i have not tried the TR, but i have some impressions in pvp or pve.
I play a GF, and even if i'm only 20 i don't feel being outplayed by TR. I just don't try to make a real DPS role with a GF.
In PVP usually TR run from me, and i protect casters and healer with stun and so on. Once you learn how to use your class at best i think this is not a problem. Game is new, the first thing you learn from PVE is acquire target do damage, don't die. TR is maybe the best to do this. Divine cleric an CW need more group strategy (and this comes with experience), while TR can work alone. This is the main problem now, but i think that with time it will resolve. GF like me should rely on CC and tankiness. Even in PVP i see that if i play properly not only i can protect squishy teammates but i get focused, and this is what i want.
But now let's speak really about TR.
I'm not a fan of 4th ed, i refused to play it after the test because i thinked was not good for table roleplay, but i always stated that it would be good for a video game. Well, here we are Instead of saying what i don't like about TR i will say what i'd like for this class. Then more expert players that main TR could tell me how is its state.
Not the first DPS. I mean, if knife were the best way to give damage, why swords even exist? Ok, irl it became long to discuss, but in a game could be like this: DPS should be high, burst and not sustained. It should depends on position, combo, and after the burst TR should go away. High armor value should counter.
Some ideas:
TR could have a bonus on damage for the first hit after they are stealthed or out of visual. This will encourage scrapping.
Less damage, more debuffs. I like the concept of LOTRO's rogue. Let heavy sustained DPS to this GWF. Give TR less damage but a debuff effect. Ok, got stun and silence. What i mean is cripple strike, bleed, poison, traps, blind (note: silence should not work on non caster skills, while blind... ok?^ ), snare and so on. This way TR will hide, make a surprise attack, give debuffs, and run from the crippled and bleeding target, that is still alive but also is charged by the GWF. If the target is a caster should be already dead.
The problem now is that TR got some utilities, but few. This few sometimes are too strong. Is DMG is too strong and can be sustained and not only burst. Is not situational. This are swashbuckler features. But then he got also stealth, escapes, etc, and this are totally rogue features.
The problem is not balance, in my opinion, is that his role is misunderstood, and this is because in 4th ed rogue role was DPS.
The fact that rogues are outrageously overpowered cannot be denied. The easy fact that more than half the player base and 80% of the pvp base are rogues is ample evidence that this fact is common knowledge. People will always flock to the most OP class to exploit the current FOTM.
There is no down side to rogues they have the best dps of any class, amazing control, and survivability. This is just from a pve standpoint. Lets talk about pvp...
In pvp rogues are gods. 80% of active pvpers are playing the rogue class. Rogues currently have better control than control wizards. This is indisputable.
Actually this is easily disputable. 80% would mean every time I join on average 4 out of 5 of my team would be rogues. This observation is laughable. I have been pvp all the way to 42 getting the majority of my experience running pvp. In that time I have never been in a 5 out of 5 or 4 out of 5 rogue pvp party.
I have run into control wizards guardians healers that have beaten me, I have beaten rogues. Maybe try an easier game like checkers.
more problem are the CWs its very hard to get close to good CW
Rock, scissors ... I'm relatively sure that an equally geared TR will have a major upper hand against a CW.
The thing is, and that is another issue with debates like these, that it's rare to get a 1v1 in this game. It's either a group fight, or someone rides in while you are fighting someone. That makes it hard to get a good idea of how classes compare directly, and team setup matters a lot.
I have had matches at 60 with my CW where I had by far the most kills and 2k more points than anyone else, but I also had two skilled clerics with me. And there were games where I couldn't kill anyone or even stay alive for any length of time because there was a pack of rogues playing together. Death in stunlock/silence.
There is no dueling, so proper testing is not so trivial.
I play a rogue. Only lvl 13 at the moment. I noticed I can fight two people at once IF they have no idea what they are doing and how to actively dodge my most threatening attacks (daze).
However, I fought a good control wizard the other day and he made it REALLY hard for me to do my thing. I'd say control wizards are the bane of rogues. So I disagree with rogues being op. People just need to know how to fight against them. This isn't WoW. The combat is pretty active and you need to dodge out of the way when I use dazing strike. It has a long cast time.
Anyone can fight any 2 people at once if the 2 people don't know what they're doing. Rogue is only OP in the hands of someone who's geared up and knows how to play the class. And the same can be said for every class
any game there will be a lot of rouges, some people just like the class. should be a ton of mages too, thats another class people traditionally like to play. nerf is never a ood work, think how to balance your class instead.
You should just all reroll rogue if you think it's overpowered =] Just don't cry when you're getting destroyed and not able to do much. Rogues = easy to kill.
I like this speaking about balance someone is let's say level 10 or something he see a rogue that get few kills then its OP . From what I know rogue got good single target dps but still with some CC + dodge u can kite rogue for as long u want it's way too early to say what is op and what's not but as for now (level 40) I haven't seen anything that I would call OP both in PvP and dungeons all classes got their advantages and disadvantages.
Thank you. Please don't start the nerf rogues <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. This happened in WoW when less skilled players were constantly getting stomped by Rogues in BGs, so Blizzard caved in to their whining and nerfed the class into oblivion, making them close to worthless in Raids. It took almost a year for them to rebalance to the point where Rogues were competitive again.
sigler21Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
If you are unable to handle the people that are dispatching you with ease and have a strikingly large desire to rage on the forums about NERF TEH ROGUEZ DEY IS DMG maybe.......this isn't the game for you, or maybe even this genre of games is a little to challenging for you. I heard farmville was pretty balanced.
amm...im a gw and i have no problem with them...
i dot him and slow his ***, 3 stuns gg....where is Diane, Ollie? O.O SHE DEAD!!!
That's the funny thing. I play rogue and easily own other rogues. My toughest competition so far are CW and Clerics. I just avoid those shield users altogether, waste of time.
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zardoz007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Rogues in my Guild are boasting 30k-50k crits.... I've yet to see a 7k with my power crit build guy.
i wish everyone were like u...most of the time im getting ganked by 2 rouges at a time leaving me out of the game for 2 minutes till they manage to kill me.
if no rouges on my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this gives me free room to roam the cw of the other team...GAH i hate those cw, control freaks.
i wish everyone were like u...most of the time im getting ganked by 2 rouges at a time leaving me out of the game for 2 minutes till they manage to kill me.
if no rouges on my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this gives me free room to roam the cw of the other team...GAH i hate those cw, control freaks.
I play the positioning and patient game. I let the other rogues do their thing first and go in right when they make their move and use up their skills. I really really hate CWs. The moment they find out I'm killing all their rogues, I'm pretty muched CC-ed entire match.
When you get to 60, you'll notice Rogues aren't the top dogs anymore. They may be OP in lower levels tho. The GWF really begins to shine once the rare+ equipment limit is reached.
Comments
The OP lists many abilities but rogue can use 3 encounter abilities, if rogue chooses silence + burst + shadowstep that rogue can be CC ed really easy, if rogue chooses silence + burst + imnue CC that rogue can not be CC ed long but it can be kited since he has no shadowstep or slow..
There are bunch of rogue options and specs.. a lot of people play with rogue so the OP encounters them a lot and the OP thinks every rogue has bunch of OP ability at the same time.. in reality Rogue has good abilities for PvP and for Single target PvE dps, however, rogue can use 3 of em at the same time and they have average 20 sec CD
ranger and warlock are coming I suppose you might as well start some nerf ranger and nerf warlock threads now.
tr is fine as it is ltp your class.
Agreed I don't know why they took the CW cc away and left the rogues unchanged. They call us control wizards but the rogues have as better cc IMO. 1 sec stun vs three secs no abilities plus plenty more damage. It is frankly ridiculous. I want to wait until cap settles in but it is obvious from the player base and the type of players rolling rogues. that hey are OP.
I spend cash on this game and I like to play casters and nothing will drive me away faster than an unbalancedsystem.
Have you tried L60 PvP as a CW against a TR yet?
but CW are insane CCers.. and their "stamina" or w/e they use to dodge.. rechages insanely quick..
every CW i fight is constantly dodging and landing that "stun/silence" u guys talk so much abt from rogues.. is just impossible..
besides being a almost 2s casting skill, wich makes it really easy to dodge, they can just spam or catch you mid cast and CC you first with the insta cast CCs..
the only thing i'v seen is that they dont have a lot of burst dmg.. but they own on CC/surviability(dodging)..
I play a GF, and even if i'm only 20 i don't feel being outplayed by TR. I just don't try to make a real DPS role with a GF.
In PVP usually TR run from me, and i protect casters and healer with stun and so on. Once you learn how to use your class at best i think this is not a problem. Game is new, the first thing you learn from PVE is acquire target do damage, don't die. TR is maybe the best to do this. Divine cleric an CW need more group strategy (and this comes with experience), while TR can work alone. This is the main problem now, but i think that with time it will resolve. GF like me should rely on CC and tankiness. Even in PVP i see that if i play properly not only i can protect squishy teammates but i get focused, and this is what i want.
But now let's speak really about TR.
I'm not a fan of 4th ed, i refused to play it after the test because i thinked was not good for table roleplay, but i always stated that it would be good for a video game. Well, here we are
Not the first DPS. I mean, if knife were the best way to give damage, why swords even exist? Ok, irl it became long to discuss, but in a game could be like this: DPS should be high, burst and not sustained. It should depends on position, combo, and after the burst TR should go away. High armor value should counter.
Some ideas:
TR could have a bonus on damage for the first hit after they are stealthed or out of visual. This will encourage scrapping.
Less damage, more debuffs. I like the concept of LOTRO's rogue. Let heavy sustained DPS to this GWF. Give TR less damage but a debuff effect. Ok, got stun and silence. What i mean is cripple strike, bleed, poison, traps, blind (note: silence should not work on non caster skills, while blind... ok?^
The problem now is that TR got some utilities, but few. This few sometimes are too strong. Is DMG is too strong and can be sustained and not only burst. Is not situational. This are swashbuckler features. But then he got also stealth, escapes, etc, and this are totally rogue features.
The problem is not balance, in my opinion, is that his role is misunderstood, and this is because in 4th ed rogue role was DPS.
if you dodge, block thier first burst you are ok
more problem are the CWs its very hard to get close to good CW
Actually this is easily disputable. 80% would mean every time I join on average 4 out of 5 of my team would be rogues. This observation is laughable. I have been pvp all the way to 42 getting the majority of my experience running pvp. In that time I have never been in a 5 out of 5 or 4 out of 5 rogue pvp party.
I have run into control wizards guardians healers that have beaten me, I have beaten rogues. Maybe try an easier game like checkers.
Rock, scissors ...
The thing is, and that is another issue with debates like these, that it's rare to get a 1v1 in this game. It's either a group fight, or someone rides in while you are fighting someone. That makes it hard to get a good idea of how classes compare directly, and team setup matters a lot.
I have had matches at 60 with my CW where I had by far the most kills and 2k more points than anyone else, but I also had two skilled clerics with me. And there were games where I couldn't kill anyone or even stay alive for any length of time because there was a pack of rogues playing together. Death in stunlock/silence.
There is no dueling, so proper testing is not so trivial.
Anyone can fight any 2 people at once if the 2 people don't know what they're doing. Rogue is only OP in the hands of someone who's geared up and knows how to play the class. And the same can be said for every class
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?238692-UGC-The-Wizard-of-War-NW-DBLKY7K2S&p=3124672#post3124672
My Flash Games ->
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http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=6140
...dude wut?
Highlight videos are awesome. It's like showing the career highlights of Michael Vicks and saying he's the best quarterback in the history of the NFL.
I don't think you understand what the purpose of those videos were.
i dot him and slow his ***, 3 stuns gg....where is Diane, Ollie? O.O SHE DEAD!!!
Didn't watch them. Assumed they were highlight videos based on their names.
Its obvious to me that you played against good players with good equip. And you are crying about it.
That's the funny thing. I play rogue and easily own other rogues. My toughest competition so far are CW and Clerics. I just avoid those shield users altogether, waste of time.
Screenshots please.
if no rouges on my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> this gives me free room to roam the cw of the other team...GAH i hate those cw, control freaks.
I play the positioning and patient game. I let the other rogues do their thing first and go in right when they make their move and use up their skills. I really really hate CWs. The moment they find out I'm killing all their rogues, I'm pretty muched CC-ed entire match.