Respec's at will in a D&D game would feel amazingly cheap to most of us, and im guessing being programers and "nerds" several of the dev's included..You may want to start looking for a new game.
Being a programmer myself , I have no idea what being a programmer has anything to do with not wanting respecs; if anything, programmers and designers aim to create a user friendly experience, not a clunky system for the sake of "hard-***" gamers.
I'll never understand the mentality you and others have: "Back in my day, games had meaning/were not user friendly/required hours of looking at spreadsheets to play. Look at me, I'm a virtual bad-***!"
Imagine applying that logic to something like medical care. "Back in my day we died from polio, and we didn't complain about it like you children do now!" It's absurd when put into context.
Times have changed. Life moves faster, people have more options when it comes to games, people have less time to devote to games, etc.
Well said , I have 4 mmorpgs running if I cant respect with little problem to keep the fun going , I have to many other choices to play and I go back to UO played them all
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koranesMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
its not hard to respec its just a privilege reserved for wallet warriors. TBH make respec cost 5k -10K diamonds and let it be
its not hard to respec its just a privilege reserved for wallet warriors. TBH make respec cost 5k -10K diamonds and let it be
Ya I will just cut back on one $20 cigar pocket change , kids can get a paper route
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xerokaiser0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
It's been mentioned before but some of you are ignoring how uninformative some of the ability descriptions are. I'm looking through some of the skills I have available and too often I get vague <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like, "restores guard meter", "heals you" "buffs your damage and defense". No numbers, no specifics, nothing.
There's nothing, "hardcore" about having to take a shot in the dark when it comes to selecting powers.
@up:couldnt agree more...
the other problem is for the ppl, like me, who aren't native english speakers, and since this game still lacks proper guides for different classes, i gues there should be free respec at 20. I've already made 2 or 3 mistakes, and maybe i'll made few more on my road to 60. Since this game is on early stage, cryptic should be more focused on feedback, less in money. Make respec costly in terms of in-game money, or give one free respec at 20.
You can pay for respec with diamonds. Gets more expensive the higher level you are. I respeced today for a little over 12k diamonds at level 22. (should have just rerolled, but I'm stupid that way)
There is a massive difference between respec being hard to come by, and not wanting to pay money to do so.
I have a job, i can afford to respect anytime i feel like it, that isnt a testament of difficulty. Just like with everything else in this game, its only difficult if you want to be 100% free to play. cryptic turned me off this game with its nickle and diming, what i spent on the founders pack will be all i spend on this game.
It has been to long that gamers have had to pay no attention to choices. This is very inline with a D&D game and I am glad that it is difficult to obtain a respec. I would feel better if you could not respec at all however.
Yeah, I prefer it like it is, where it's easy and you don't even have to think twice if you're well-to-do. It really keeps the poors in their place. I love socioeconomics in my vidjyagames.
Yeah, I prefer it like it is, where it's easy and you don't even have to think twice if you're well-to-do. It really keeps the poors in their place. I love socioeconomics in my vidjyagames.
Control wizards have 2 feats that say increases aoe damage by 3/6/9%. Turns out, one of these feats, only works if the target is alone.
Yeah, that is totally hardcore of me to figure out the hardway that the skill works differently then written in plain english in the text.
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kitsune01Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It isn't exactly hard to get diamonds in game. Do some dailies you'd most likely want to do anyways as you level. Hell for all we know high levels of crafting (or what is called crafting), probably leadership, may get you a limited amount of diamonds everyday. Yeah I bought the $200 and the only thing I have used so far is no queue to log on. The diamonds that come with it are sitting on the account waiting to be claimed. Oh ok yeah I used the mount and companion as well. I am sitting on all the gold I made as well.
What gets me is because it is possible to use money to make things more accessible people want everything to be just as accessible without money. Respecs are accessible without money, money just makes it trivial is you have the disposable income. When it comes down to it, the people who spend a ton of money and hold it over your head are uhm animal posterior worthy. Don't play with them. As far as min/max playing, in time those who play a lot and have the diamonds to respec a lot will find the "optimum" specs. Relax play the game and have fun, treat it like the make believe world it is.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Control wizards have 2 feats that say increases aoe damage by 3/6/9%. Turns out, one of these feats, only works if the target is alone.
Yeah, that is totally hardcore of me to figure out the hardway that the skill works differently then written in plain english in the text.
Well, I know people keep telling you guys this,but only because it is true.
This is a beta.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
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keterysMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Well, I know people keep telling you guys this,but only because it is true.
This is a beta.
The logical response to that is - so respecs should be free for the full extent of Beta. Not only does it dodge the problem with faulty documentation and effects, but it also lets characters be more agile so they can properly test the system.
You can pay for respec with diamonds. Gets more expensive the higher level you are. I respeced today for a little over 12k diamonds at level 22. (should have just rerolled, but I'm stupid that way)
You're not the one who's stupid here. Having to choose between such a high cost as that at level 22 or rerolling is ridiculous and fairly stupid design.
There seems a concern that is not being addressed much in this thread. Unlike a table top or paper DnD game, the powers you choose to give to your character today may or not function the same way tomorrow. Character abilities are often tweaked, changed, removed or added with each content patch. That you would either need to spend an absurd amount of diamonds or real money for, arguably, the only store item that has a real effect on game play is disheartening; more so when any carefully thought out plan of character build could be laid to waste with any given patch update.
My only stance is the tooltips or descriptions for some abilities are horrible. Many descriptions do not tell my any relevant numbers.
examples:
astral shield: what % damage reduction, what % regeneration. how about giving me numbers.
divine glow: divinity description doesnt give me numbers for the additional damage dealt nor for the enhanced damage.
bastion of health: divinity description doesnt give me new numbers for the heal. The description states a lengthy buildup but it's actually just a cast time. Well tell me the cast time. Does Recovery reduce the cast time?
Sacred Flame: how many is a small amount of temporary hit points?
Astral Seal: how much HP is given to people hitting a mob with astral seal applied. If you cant give me exact numbers (ie based on damage given) then how about some percents.
Hallowed Grown: again how much defense and how much offense.
Healer's Lore: I have this at rank 3 and I'm still seeing the 5% bonus healing. is it 5% or 15%?
Divine Fortune: how much divine power will my non-damaging power give? again at least a % that changes when I rank up abilities.
Guardian of Faith: How much is the Heal when the angel ascends?
Do I need to go on? These are just the ones for my Cleric, I can imagine how the other classes are. It's difficult to make an informed decision when I'm not given complete details. Much like the Hero of the North pack. It wasnt until people started asking about the mount speed did we even know.
Now take all that in and think about when Cryptic will 'adjust' the skills. At least with PnP you have a book and the print doesnt just change one tuesday.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
The logical response to that is - so respecs should be free for the full extent of Beta. Not only does it dodge the problem with faulty documentation and effects, but it also lets characters be more agile so they can properly test the system.
Good idea, clockwerkninja!
Yea seems fine, as long as we wipe all toons at launch ..
It seems that a lot of the newer gamers do not know that respecing was not even part of WOW or other games until pretty recently. Remember how bad it pissed off a lot of gamers when respecs came into the picture. I know I quit wow shortly after everyone was changing specs every 5 mins at a click.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There seems a concern that is not being addressed much in this thread. Unlike a table top or paper DnD game, the powers you choose to give to your character today may or not function the same way tomorrow. Character abilities are often tweaked, changed, removed or added with each content patch. That you would either need to spend an absurd amount of diamonds or real money for, arguably, the only store item that has a real effect on game play is disheartening; more so when any carefully thought out plan of character build could be laid to waste with any given patch update.
Then "maybe" you should be given free respecs when your toon is effected by changes. That is as far as that QQ will get you tho.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
It would be perfect IF and only IF the playerbase had access to every single skill/spell possibility for end game BEFOREHAND. Now you're going blindly.
If I roll a CW with frost-spells I want to know how good they will be end game. I had enough people telling me that CW gets plain W since most of the important boss fights are chill-immune.
And that's only a glimpse of what is wrong with this game.
That's a fact!
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Yea seems fine, as long as we wipe all toons at launch ..
It seems that a lot of the newer gamers do not know that respecing was not even part of WOW or other games until pretty recently. Remember how bad it pissed off a lot of gamers when respecs came into the picture. I know I quit wow shortly after everyone was changing specs every 5 mins at a click.
Character development has to go deeper than min-max.
There's no point in developing your character if you're respec'ing every 5 minutes.
I don't care if it's 5 dollars, 100 dollars or free once every thirty days.
Respec'ing shouldn't be a common occurrence. They should exist because you made a fatal error, not because you want to change things around for every single fight. That defeats the entire purpose of building and developing a character.
If you want to do it once per months I don't care. I'd love to see something like that added. But respec'ing being a five minute occurrence is the exact opposite of the core concept of developing characters.
There's room for improvement to prevent the need for character respecs...
But the answer isn't to hand respecs out like candy on Holloween.
Yea seems fine, as long as we wipe all toons at launch ..
It seems that a lot of the newer gamers do not know that respecing was not even part of WOW or other games until pretty recently. Remember how bad it pissed off a lot of gamers when respecs came into the picture. I know I quit wow shortly after everyone was changing specs every 5 mins at a click.
What are you talking about? WOW had respecs since at least Burning Crusade(2005-2006), so 7 years ago which is when i started playing. It might have even be from Vanilla WoW but i didn't play at that time.
Even if you were talking about dual talent specializations, that came on 2009, so 4 years ago. No one was pissed off about it, it was one of the most requested features asked by the community.
Stop making stuff up.
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ranhurMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited May 2013
If you do not want or like to be able to respc, then you can make a conscious decision not to - but in 2013, the inability to respec is outdated and limits who would be interested in playing your game (limiting interest limits potential revenue).
The single fact that I can respec as much and as often as I like so long as I am willing to sink the money into it speaks volumes - if there was an option to chase a monthly respec in the game (perhaps through a quest) then there'd be wiggle room to argue about it, but it is quite clear that the intention is not to reduce the frequency of how someone respecs (because they could out a limit/timer on it), but to drum up business.
What happens when an ability is broken or adjusted as a consequence of a patch (not talking about something be OP)?
clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Ok, that is actually a fine idea..Remove respec at will from cash shops and add a option after a decently long quest line,limited by a 1 month cool down.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
0
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Character development has to go deeper than min-max.
There's no point in developing your character if you're respec'ing every 5 minutes.
I don't care if it's 5 dollars, 100 dollars or free once every thirty days.
Respec'ing shouldn't be a common occurrence. They should exist because you made a fatal error, not because you want to change things around for every single fight. That defeats the entire purpose of building and developing a character.
If you want to do it once per months I don't care. I'd love to see something like that added. But respec'ing being a five minute occurrence is the exact opposite of the core concept of developing characters.
There's room for improvement to prevent the need for character respecs...
But the answer isn't to hand respecs out like candy on Holloween.
Quoted for truth and justice.
I am still holding out hope that most of the players came here to play a DnD mmo, not a third person moba with side quests.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
0
Options
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
What happens when an ability is broken or adjusted as a consequence of a patch (not talking about something be OP)?
Cryptic has often given out free respecs in the past when changes are made to the game.
That being said, I concede a lot of what I hold true to D&D for the sake of this being an MMO.
The argument "Don't do it if you don't like it" doesn't apply fully here. The fact they are in at all is something which I don't like.
I could easily make threads stating proposals to remove them. I don't because I accept this is an MMO and not PnP or NWN D&D. But it's still a Dungeons and Dragons game and respec'ing shouldn't be handed out at a whim. I am only willing to concede so far.
I don't know or care if my reasoning is Cryptic/PWE's reason but I know it works for me. The system as it is discourages commonly using the respec system and that's an A+ in my book.
It's there for those who want to use it. If you want to spend 5 dollars a day respec'ing go for it, at least it funds the game.
But to just hand them out as an everyday practice because other MMO's do...
That belittles my experience in D&D.
Some of us agree with no respec, but concessions have to be made for the mmo experience. With much reservation, I accept the respec, and you better believe it should be hard to get.
agreed /10 char
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
I hope when this game goes live they make respecing free or not to require real money. As this game is based on 4th edition respecing there could be done anytime you lvled and it should be the same here. The respec coins are a huge money grab nothing more nothing less.
Comments
Being a programmer myself , I have no idea what being a programmer has anything to do with not wanting respecs; if anything, programmers and designers aim to create a user friendly experience, not a clunky system for the sake of "hard-***" gamers.
I'll never understand the mentality you and others have: "Back in my day, games had meaning/were not user friendly/required hours of looking at spreadsheets to play. Look at me, I'm a virtual bad-***!"
Imagine applying that logic to something like medical care. "Back in my day we died from polio, and we didn't complain about it like you children do now!" It's absurd when put into context.
Times have changed. Life moves faster, people have more options when it comes to games, people have less time to devote to games, etc.
Ya I will just cut back on one $20 cigar pocket change , kids can get a paper route
There's nothing, "hardcore" about having to take a shot in the dark when it comes to selecting powers.
the other problem is for the ppl, like me, who aren't native english speakers, and since this game still lacks proper guides for different classes, i gues there should be free respec at 20. I've already made 2 or 3 mistakes, and maybe i'll made few more on my road to 60. Since this game is on early stage, cryptic should be more focused on feedback, less in money. Make respec costly in terms of in-game money, or give one free respec at 20.
I have a job, i can afford to respect anytime i feel like it, that isnt a testament of difficulty. Just like with everything else in this game, its only difficult if you want to be 100% free to play. cryptic turned me off this game with its nickle and diming, what i spent on the founders pack will be all i spend on this game.
Yeah, I prefer it like it is, where it's easy and you don't even have to think twice if you're well-to-do. It really keeps the poors in their place. I love socioeconomics in my vidjyagames.
Control wizards have 2 feats that say increases aoe damage by 3/6/9%. Turns out, one of these feats, only works if the target is alone.
Yeah, that is totally hardcore of me to figure out the hardway that the skill works differently then written in plain english in the text.
What gets me is because it is possible to use money to make things more accessible people want everything to be just as accessible without money. Respecs are accessible without money, money just makes it trivial is you have the disposable income. When it comes down to it, the people who spend a ton of money and hold it over your head are uhm animal posterior worthy. Don't play with them. As far as min/max playing, in time those who play a lot and have the diamonds to respec a lot will find the "optimum" specs. Relax play the game and have fun, treat it like the make believe world it is.
Well, I know people keep telling you guys this,but only because it is true.
This is a beta.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Good idea, clockwerkninja!
Yep, beta ... *nudge nudge wink wink*
You're not the one who's stupid here. Having to choose between such a high cost as that at level 22 or rerolling is ridiculous and fairly stupid design.
examples:
Do I need to go on? These are just the ones for my Cleric, I can imagine how the other classes are. It's difficult to make an informed decision when I'm not given complete details. Much like the Hero of the North pack. It wasnt until people started asking about the mount speed did we even know.
Now take all that in and think about when Cryptic will 'adjust' the skills. At least with PnP you have a book and the print doesnt just change one tuesday.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
Yea seems fine, as long as we wipe all toons at launch ..
It seems that a lot of the newer gamers do not know that respecing was not even part of WOW or other games until pretty recently. Remember how bad it pissed off a lot of gamers when respecs came into the picture. I know I quit wow shortly after everyone was changing specs every 5 mins at a click.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Then "maybe" you should be given free respecs when your toon is effected by changes. That is as far as that QQ will get you tho.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
If I roll a CW with frost-spells I want to know how good they will be end game. I had enough people telling me that CW gets plain W since most of the important boss fights are chill-immune.
And that's only a glimpse of what is wrong with this game.
Character development has to go deeper than min-max.
There's no point in developing your character if you're respec'ing every 5 minutes.
I don't care if it's 5 dollars, 100 dollars or free once every thirty days.
Respec'ing shouldn't be a common occurrence. They should exist because you made a fatal error, not because you want to change things around for every single fight. That defeats the entire purpose of building and developing a character.
If you want to do it once per months I don't care. I'd love to see something like that added. But respec'ing being a five minute occurrence is the exact opposite of the core concept of developing characters.
There's room for improvement to prevent the need for character respecs...
But the answer isn't to hand respecs out like candy on Holloween.
What are you talking about? WOW had respecs since at least Burning Crusade(2005-2006), so 7 years ago which is when i started playing. It might have even be from Vanilla WoW but i didn't play at that time.
Even if you were talking about dual talent specializations, that came on 2009, so 4 years ago. No one was pissed off about it, it was one of the most requested features asked by the community.
Stop making stuff up.
The single fact that I can respec as much and as often as I like so long as I am willing to sink the money into it speaks volumes - if there was an option to chase a monthly respec in the game (perhaps through a quest) then there'd be wiggle room to argue about it, but it is quite clear that the intention is not to reduce the frequency of how someone respecs (because they could out a limit/timer on it), but to drum up business.
What happens when an ability is broken or adjusted as a consequence of a patch (not talking about something be OP)?
It's only ok if consumers decide it's ok.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Quoted for truth and justice.
I am still holding out hope that most of the players came here to play a DnD mmo, not a third person moba with side quests.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Cryptic has often given out free respecs in the past when changes are made to the game.
That being said, I concede a lot of what I hold true to D&D for the sake of this being an MMO.
The argument "Don't do it if you don't like it" doesn't apply fully here. The fact they are in at all is something which I don't like.
I could easily make threads stating proposals to remove them. I don't because I accept this is an MMO and not PnP or NWN D&D. But it's still a Dungeons and Dragons game and respec'ing shouldn't be handed out at a whim. I am only willing to concede so far.
I don't know or care if my reasoning is Cryptic/PWE's reason but I know it works for me. The system as it is discourages commonly using the respec system and that's an A+ in my book.
It's there for those who want to use it. If you want to spend 5 dollars a day respec'ing go for it, at least it funds the game.
But to just hand them out as an everyday practice because other MMO's do...
That belittles my experience in D&D.
agreed /10 char
Character is what a man is in the dark