actually both NCSoft and Sony have games that are well over 12 years old and still going strong.
while the average PWI game gets at best 2 years of development, then when their current playerbase has seen thru their **** and start leaving in droves, its time for skeleton crew and working to release the next game.
thats the problem with lying to try to make a point. people catches you so fast and you look like a tard...
actually both NCSoft and Sony have games that are well over 12 years old and still going strong.
while the average PWI game gets at best 2 years of development, then when their current playerbase has seen thru their **** and start leaving in droves, its time for skeleton crew and working to release the next game.
thats the problem with lying to try to make a point. people catches you so fast and you look like a tard...
The reason PWE is trying to squeeze every penny out of the players is because they will have to make as much money they can before a decent fantasy MMO launches next. A shame this exploitative game holds the name "neverwinter". Neverwinter nights was one of the best games ever. Deep gameplay and atmosphere and a toolset that allowed fantastic player created persistant worlds (Foundry is nothing compared to that).
Please dont give me the argument that you can achieve and get everything in this game for free. A game is about immersion. I don't give a **** about having to spend money, but this game is soaked with references to the "micro"transaction system killing of this immersion. You can see why I am all for subscription based or buy to pay business models.
I've played the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of this game and I love it.
My take:
Mounts are pricey, but it's for every character you make. I'll put that in the okay section.
Companions are over priced. 20% reduction across the board.
There should be a rare chance to get keys for the lock boxes in game.
Additional character slot price is great.
Greater Bag of holding price is great. It doesn't bind to your character.
The professions and profession packs is my major issue and needs to be addressed. It's the only part of the game I feel core fundamentals of it is hidden behind a pay wall.
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adamaantMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The professions and profession packs is my major issue and needs to be addressed. It's the only part of the game I feel core fundamentals of it is hidden behind a pay wall.
Agree 100%.
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blapples86Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Only cash shop item that irritates me so far is the respec. Charging is fine by me, people shouldn't need to do it multiple times in a short period, but the price is pretty rough. $6 or nearly 300k AD, really? I feel like I am getting charged $10 for a Big mac meal or other similar meal of your choice that is around $5 if McDonald's isn't your thing. Seems to me like $2-3 for something so basic and all but essential AND that most people will be purchasing more than once (though probably weeks or months apart) if it has a reasonable cost should be plenty to profit on. As it stands, I know that I for one will not be respecing with real money and that I am pretty lazy and have the money to do it. I will still respec with AD I am sure, but personally I would rather save my AD for bigger purchases I REALLY don't want to pay real money for. So, for me personally it is just more time playing, which I like anyway, but for the company and the games survival...? Probably not so great to have prices so poor they encourage people to save up in game money rather than spending real money even if they have the real money to spend.
Disagree or troll or whatever. I'm probably not going to be checking back in on this post anyway. This is just how I feel about it presently and I'm giving my personal feedback with the possibility it could help make a game in open beta that I am quite enjoying even better in the future.
The developers have created a good game. A lot of people worked hard to create a good game. They can charge whatever they want for things. If people think their product is worth what they are charging people with pay for it, if not they won't. That is how the world works. No one NEEDS anything in the cash shop. They might want it, but they don't need it. All companies exist for the same reason, to make money. It is silly to call a company greedy or whatever. It is also silly to say a company will fail if they don't listen to someone ranting on an internet forum. Only the people running the company know what their business plan is and if they are hitting profit numbers or not. Of course prices will adjust to whatever the market will bear. This entitled mentality I see from some people is really surprising. This game is free to play, not the first level, not for a limited amount of time, the whole thing is free. You could play the whole thing and never pay a dime. If I want something I will buy it. I will be happy to support this game. I wish the developers success.
Yes the big thing that worries me is the respec costs especially given that the progression system in unfinished. I'd imagine its even worse for someone who is interested in both PvP and PvE.
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earthfellMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 12Arc User
Sorry, but I just had to laugh. Oh god. This is hilarious. You ask if perasien had any knowledge in economics, but it seems that you're the one who has no knowledge of economics. None whatsoever. You just wanted to seem cool, and thats it.
Supply and Demand applies to any economy, be it real, or digital. If Supply and Demand didn't apply to MMO's, there would be no gold farmers because it wouldn't be profitable.
Now, go play outside or something.
I swear to god you are remedial.
Supply and demand applies to gold farming because gold has to be FARMED via gameplay, therefore a supply of gold can fluctuate up and down because it is limited by the finite supply of a gamer's TIME to play the game and accrue gold.
No one has to farm anything to keep the amount of bags in the cash shop high. Now stop being an idiot and go read a textbook, INSIDE preferably.
IMO PWE can greatly reduce the cash shop complaints by introducing the old school sub model as an option.
Sub model players could be rewarded by having most (*) of the cash items removed from the cash store and added to the appropriate loot tables. All items received could be BOP (bags, keys, etc). NPCs could be added that only work for sub players, and they could handle cash shop tasks (like haircuts for example) for gold.
The perks of being a sub player would mostly end once you cancel the sub. You would keep the BOP loot you won, or the items you bought with gold, or the results of the services you bought with gold - but that's it.
(*) clearly some things would remain in the cash shop even if you are a sub player (the LOTRO model is a good example).
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stanleypain007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 20Arc User
Here is where it gets interesting. The same people who complain about the prices, would be glad to pay "what is acceptable to them". Of course they don't even realize what they are happy to pay might be just too much for somebody else... Selfishness at it's best.
welcome to capitalism 101.
Where the only two factors that drive the market are
1: selfishness
2: the price the most buyers are willing to pay.
actually both NCSoft and Sony have games that are well over 12 years old and still going strong.
while the average PWI game gets at best 2 years of development, then when their current playerbase has seen thru their **** and start leaving in droves, its time for skeleton crew and working to release the next game.
thats the problem with lying to try to make a point. people catches you so fast and you look like a tard...
Umm they are not "going strong", they are on life support. Just like Aoc, Warhammer, Aion, EQ1, UO, etc... I worked at SOE for 5 years, trust me, they are scraping buy on their MMOs.
Aoc and warhammer were plagued by problems mostly related to getting shipped to soon " nothing to do at max lvl server problems etc etc " i played them both at start aoc was a blast for ganking lol and warhammer was a blast in instanced bg if you played whit a guild the were just never able to recover from there initial problems eq1 and uo are god like games that started all of this my times in uo were some of the most enjoyable moments in my life lol but the are realy old games so its normal the are having problems
i have no problem in spending money for a game i love the problem is that this days games come and go and old players were used to pay 9$ or 15$ bucks peer month and enjoy that month safe in there knowledge that the game was going to stay there forever i know it wasn't really forever " playing whit there friends
now im playing neverwinter and i dont know if im still going to be playing it in a week time cuze things change and one of the biggest problems i see is ppl not wanting to spend money in the game because its to expensive so the end up leaving the game and that will worries me so im not going to spend money in keys mounts bags etc if im going to leave the game cuze ppl decided to go try the next free to play game that comes out
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rohk007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
They are extremely greedy and we do suffer from a pathetic bank/bag space because of it. That's why I complain, they could learn a thing or two from Grinding Gear Games.
they offer a free to play game and you are complaining. You are lucky people pay the prices to support the game so you can play for free. This is how they make money, this is not shareware
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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necronomniconMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Umm they are not "going strong", they are on life support. Just like Aoc, Warhammer, Aion, EQ1, UO, etc... I worked at SOE for 5 years, trust me, they are scraping buy on their MMOs.
I could tell soe was having issues when they did the massive changes a couple of years ago to eq 2 to attract more casual players that wouldn't have wnated to worry so much about stats lol. they were a bit too tight on some restrictions ont he ftp, but as a dev said in a video i saw not too long ago they were learning about how to go about the ftp as they went along, they seemed to have done it well with vanguard though. I still have about 4200 sc saved, went and got some anyways ince vanguard was alright for a while, their game I enjoyed the most was everquest online adventures ont he ps2. it's too bad that we didn't have hard drives built into the systems back then, and a service like psn, I heard that underfoot for eqoa was nearly finished but that it would have been too expensive to press and release for the uncertainty of the amount of players it would have gotten. a service like psna nd built in hard drives owuld have kept me playing an extra couple of years in that case, but then again not everyone had broadband back then and many of them had the by today's standards slower dsl to have to download gigs of an expansion on a console lol, not to mention the cost of a decently sized hard drive back then designed for a console, i think the one that came with final fantasy online was only 40 gigs if I remember correctly. I like some of the news about eq next though, every time I get new news about it the game gives me more and more hope that it's gonna be something that can both appeal to a wide audience, AND have lasting appeal to older mmo players. the story ricks stuff is one of the things I am most hopefula bout.
So farewell hope, and with hope farewell fear,
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
I personally won't buy the things I do want to buy as it stands right now, the prices just feels greatly out of wack when compared to what you recieve.
Also alot of the "complaints" (not all perhaps) would disapear if they stopped trying to smack you in the face with the Zen options, the lockboxes (they drop far to **** often, the market is already completely flooded after just 4 days <- I'm sitting on 29 atm at level 31 -_-), resurection options (honestly these should be hidden when you don't have any), and some of the AD/Compaignon boost options are just to much in your face to feel pleasent.
And last but not least the bags... just giving us 2 bags (2+base) just feels cheap tbh, I don't want free bags or anything like that, but there really should be some craftable bags or alternative options besides buying them for cash, yes I know about the AD : Zen conversion but honestly the time investment in farming "credits" compared to farming "materials" causes vastly different feelings in players.
If I had an option to farm A LOT of materials (equal to the same amount of time investment in AD farming) to make a bag (not even a big one but just a 12 slotter or so) then I wouldn't really complain about the high price for the good bags, since it would give me something to strive for instead of feeling like I'm working to buy something. (especially true for all those saying that trading is the way to make money, I personrally prefer just farming mobs instead of playing a trade simulator)
I'm fine with the pricing I've seen so far. Don't really care about the lockboxes. As an example of pricing: $5 for not one, but TWO character slots is a great price.
they offer a free to play game and you are complaining. You are lucky people pay the prices to support the game so you can play for free. This is how they make money, this is not shareware
The thing is, a lot of people WISH this was a $50-60 + $15/month all features unlocked MMO. Looking at the cash shop right now, the traditional MMO pricing scheme seems like a steal.
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infinityzerodunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
ichbin, if you actually have something good to say please do what I've seen you posting is all stale if not lame
Other then that I'm sure you guys giving feedback and complaining will have something to be done about it, but remember you have a choice to spend money on it or not to the choice is yours.
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gyloirMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
ichbin, if you actually have something good to say please do what I've seen you posting is all stale if not lame
Other then that I'm sure you guys giving feedback and complaining will have something to be done about it, but remember you have a choice to spend money on it or not to the choice is yours.
The thing is the prices are quite high. As a company you want people to not be hesitant to purchase things and to generally feel the prices are "fair" and offer a good value for the money.
In all the forums I use where I've seen people talking about Nevrwinter I haven't seen a single person say this, almost all of them talk about how "expensive" things are.
To put this in perspective for you take Dyes. It takes three dyes to dye a single piece of clothing fully, it would take multiple "purchases" of dyes to get a whole uniform colour for your outfit. Black dye for instance cost 500zen, that is $5 usd, it would take more then one purchase of this to dye your entire outfit.
I haven't seen a SINGLE person in game that has dyed clothing, why?
1. Dyes are one-use only, after you dye with it it's gone.
2. Why dye your clothing when it will be replaced soon? There's NO reasonable viewpoint here, unless you like wasting money.
I know personally I would LOVE to use the dyes, I used them a TON in Guild wars 2 and loved finding them and even purchased a few dye packs.
However in Neverwinter? I have 0 interest in buying dyes because of the price and limited use.
If dyes were unlimited, or even worked on a limited time (IE say 5 bucks you get to use dyes for 1 month) I would buy some, and many other people would too I'm sure.
As it stands prices are high and are geared too steep to get people to purchase them.
The term "microtransaction" is what many F2p games thrive on, in NWN a lot of things are no where near "micro" transaction pricing, as a whole.
To get mounts? 40 bucks or so, companions, etc.
They need to look at people that have very successful f2p games, companies like Riot games.
I'll explain to you WHY the complaints are going on, and just why are so many up in arms. Basically boils down to a good game, that people WANT to play, but feel...that basic quality of life things are now barred from access. Not that you CANT get to max level with basic bags, its that at SOME point going to need that bag space, bank space, ect. Going to need that mount to keep up with your party. Not just about wanting things its about needing some of this stuff eventually...
People can spot a bad item shop a mile away, and then you compare it with OTHER mmo's and you can see there prices are much much much lower. So what you are seeing is, consumers doing research, and finding out that to play the game they are enjoying at some point gonna end up having to pay good money to play it... while are other games are less buggy, more stable, and have a better item shop out there.
Some try to use the AD to Zen arguement but seriously... talking in the MILLIONS of Ad's to get a simple bag...On top of this i have an issue with being able to BUY AD and insantly HAVE some of the best gear in game. There is a definate problem with that... because its effectively BUYING power... now rich kids can have best thing instantly even if they are terrible.
So why the complaining? because its a terrible pricing model... its not about entitlement its about being a consumer! and being able to spot a rip off when you see it. Like going into any other mmo looking at the auction house, and seeing a bag for 1 gold, then going down the list and seeing one for 1000 gold. Which do you buy? 1 gold bag or the 1000 gold bag? entitlement? hardly...
stop being a blatant fanboy and step back a second and add up how much would cost to buy basic things... in fact i'll do it for you...
3x's bags=30 dollars
1x mount=20-40 dollars
1x companion= 20-40 dollars
1x bank slot enhancement=6 or 7 dollars
so if i when i hit 60 and want to set myself up for end game, play the game seriously and have a basic bag and bank space, a basic mount, a good companion, and some bank slots... you are talking almost 100 dollars investment INTO a game. Now you may be willing to DROP 200 dollars into a game, but not everyone is. As a LONG time D&D fan, someone that BOUGHT DDO out of the gate, someone that had 3.0, 3.5, 4e and pathfinder on release day, preordered LONG before they came out...as a HUGE fan of both mmos and D&D...as someone that WORKS for a living and isnt a kid...
Edit: i also own entire BG series, NWN series, and old DOS krynn series...yea total D&D fanatic x3
I can safely and, confidently say...the item shop is over priced, and that AD farming seems like its going to take me FOREVER to have some basic quality of life items...should be attained long before i reach max level. To have basic everyday items...i'm expected to spend like half my paycheck on a game? i'm sorry but i have bills...and what not to attend to,a family...and while i love the game...
The Item Shop is a RIPP OFF! and i am going to keep warning people not to pay into it... yes i am saying DO not support this game...because they are ripping you off...end of story!
and it saddens me that i have to do that...
Well considering you got a game for free that in its self is a 60 dollar value. Some MMO's you have to buy the game first. 50-60 bucks for that. They may give you a free month but after that you have to pay 15 a month. So in the fist 2 months you can drop 65-75 dollars. Add in a couple more months on top of that and you are sitting at a 100 dollars. Then comes the x-pac at 40.00 bucks. See where I am going with this?
To me a 100 bucks is a 100 bucks no matter when you spend it. Do you have to buy a 40 dollar mount? No. You do not have to buy anything. If you pace your self and watch you spending this game can be cheaper then most b2p mmo's. That includes Gw2. Why? Because there is no barrier to entry. You control you own cash flow.
Now if Cryptic/PWE charged us to use the Foundry/Dungeon content or what have you plus added the high cost cash shop then I could understand what all the fuss is about. As it stands now any one whom complains about the cash shop should just stop.
Oh but any game that might peak players interest that is not free they would spend 60 bucks no problem. Seems to me that most people here that are up in arms about a cash shop for a truly FREE game have never played b2p with a sub mmo. Did you know that even b2p with a sub mmos also have a cash shop? 25 dollar mounts,10 dollar pets,25 dollar character transfer, 25 dollar faction changes etc???
The thing is, a lot of people WISH this was a $50-60 + $15/month all features unlocked MMO. Looking at the cash shop right now, the traditional MMO pricing scheme seems like a steal.
^ So much this.
I simply don't do cash shop games, the last thing I want to do is to spend my limited gaming time on some virtual fantasy equivalent to Amazon. As things stand i will never spend a penny on this game, yet if they had a monthly fee, say the traditional $14.99 a month and you get access to increased bag space, a small selection of mounts and a monthly stipend in funny money etc. then I'd be more than happy to pay.
Of course I would realise that if I cancelled my sub I'd lose access to these things and I'd be happy with that, and that just because you sub wouldn't mean you get access to everything, it would simply give an option to those people who prefer the simplicity of a subscription over having to spend time browsing through some horrible online cash shop. I certainly hope they consider adding a sub option as I'd be more than interested.
Well considering you got a game for free that in its self is a 60 dollar value. Some MMO's you have to buy the game first. 50-60 bucks for that. They may give you a free month but after that you have to pay 15 a month. So in the fist 2 months you can drop 65-75 dollars. Add in a couple more months on top of that and you are sitting at a 100 dollars. Then comes the x-pac at 40.00 bucks. See where I am going with this?
To me a 100 bucks is a 100 bucks no matter when you spend it. Do you have to buy a 40 dollar mount? No. You do not have to buy anything. If you pace your self and watch you spending this game can be cheaper then most b2p mmo's. That includes Gw2. Why? Because there is no barrier to entry. You control you own cash flow.
Now if Cryptic/PWE charged us to use the Foundry/Dungeon content or what have you plus added the high cost cash shop then I could understand what all the fuss is about. As it stands now any one whom complains about the cash shop should just stop.
Oh but any game that might peak players interest that is not free they would spend 60 bucks no problem. Seems to me that most people here that are up in arms about a cash shop for a truly FREE game have never played b2p with a sub mmo. Did you know that even b2p with a sub mmos also have a cash shop? 25 dollar mounts,10 dollar pets,25 dollar character transfer, 25 dollar faction changes etc???
^
So much this.
All of the important stuff in Neverwinter s free. If the core gameplay keeps me hooked, I'll gladly spend 40+ dollars for a mount and extra character slots. Plus I don't see why there has to be an uproar. If you think the cash shop is too expensive, don't use it. Lack of sales is the best form of feed back they can get. If no one buys dyes, then they will lower the price. Prices will start high to get the big bucks from all the super fans, and then come down to get your average player to buy something.
Well considering you got a game for free that in its self is a 60 dollar value. Some MMO's you have to buy the game first. 50-60 bucks for that. They may give you a free month but after that you have to pay 15 a month. So in the fist 2 months you can drop 65-75 dollars. Add in a couple more months on top of that and you are sitting at a 100 dollars. Then comes the x-pac at 40.00 bucks. See where I am going with this?
To me a 100 bucks is a 100 bucks no matter when you spend it. Do you have to buy a 40 dollar mount? No. You do not have to buy anything. If you pace your self and watch you spending this game can be cheaper then most b2p mmo's. That includes Gw2. Why? Because there is no barrier to entry. You control you own cash flow.
Now if Cryptic/PWE charged us to use the Foundry/Dungeon content or what have you plus added the high cost cash shop then I could understand what all the fuss is about. As it stands now any one whom complains about the cash shop should just stop.
Oh but any game that might peak players interest that is not free they would spend 60 bucks no problem. Seems to me that most people here that are up in arms about a cash shop for a truly FREE game have never played b2p with a sub mmo. Did you know that even b2p with a sub mmos also have a cash shop? 25 dollar mounts,10 dollar pets,25 dollar character transfer, 25 dollar faction changes etc???
You have to break it down over time though, and over time a normal mmo might cost...lets see
SWTOR+1 year of 15 dollar reoccuring sub: is about 240 dollars a year with a sub model, which is about the average for any sub mmo.
Lets take a look at this game shall we?
Assuming that you have at least 2 characters... assuming you actually buy good stuff off the auction house...
1x good companion 40 dollars
1x good mount 40 dollars
4x bags 40 dollars
12x dye is 5 dollars gonna need at least 3 of these for any item... so if we dye 1 full outfit, so 60 dollars!
3x bank slot 6 dollars, we'll need say 3 of these... 18 dollars
Now things we need at end game....
Keys
Wards
10 dollars roughly each... so for arguments sake say 1 of these per month...so for 12 months thats 120 dollars x2
Expansions packs: new classes, races, ect since we dont know pricing model lets assume 20 dollars a race and class sounds about in line with other games, it'll end up higher probably.
Drow: 20 dollars
Warlock: 20 dollars
Since thats only 2 announced races.
So lets see what we ended up with in just the first month for ONE character.
i get 358 dollars spent if i only buy the things above, and these are basic commodities, things they assume every player should be buying. You are gonna try and counter with " but you dont need all those things " and i'm going to reply with, yes but THE subscription mmo gives me ALL of those things with 15 dollars a month. See where i am coming from? with a subscription model WE GET IT ALL! for a single value... we do not get nickle and dimed every time we turn around... so in conclusions
NWNO is clearly more expensive every way you swing it, even if we take away the assumed expansion prices mind you CHANCES are will be way more then 2 in a year. Plus also content expansions... gotta buy those too! sorry but... the shop is expensive.... and you cant deny that...numbers are right there... can say grind AD all you want BUT never get half of this stuff with Ad because you need it for ingame things, plus need time to grind it, and never grind it fast enough to acquire basic things... that's by design because they want you to buy stuff!
i've said my peace... and i stand by it! shop is overpriced... i hate idea of using it BUT i really want to support this game because its good!
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sman421999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
so because a frankly ridiculously large list of extra items (with glaring misrepresentations such as the races and classes, it has been reported that classes will be free) adds up to obviously a lot of money we are supposed to agree that prices are outrageous?
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kerlaaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
IMO it all breaks down to supply and demand. Just because its a new game they are trying to get what they can by charging what players are willing to pay, it doesn't mean they will go broke and the game will suffer. If you think that ask Sony about their release price for the Walkman. The sony walkman was right around 100 dollars at first, there were several models and some more expensive then others. Now you could probably find one for a few bucks. Did Sony go break/out of business, far from it.
Comments
actually both NCSoft and Sony have games that are well over 12 years old and still going strong.
while the average PWI game gets at best 2 years of development, then when their current playerbase has seen thru their **** and start leaving in droves, its time for skeleton crew and working to release the next game.
thats the problem with lying to try to make a point. people catches you so fast and you look like a tard...
High-Five!
Please dont give me the argument that you can achieve and get everything in this game for free. A game is about immersion. I don't give a **** about having to spend money, but this game is soaked with references to the "micro"transaction system killing of this immersion. You can see why I am all for subscription based or buy to pay business models.
My take:
Mounts are pricey, but it's for every character you make. I'll put that in the okay section.
Companions are over priced. 20% reduction across the board.
There should be a rare chance to get keys for the lock boxes in game.
Additional character slot price is great.
Greater Bag of holding price is great. It doesn't bind to your character.
The professions and profession packs is my major issue and needs to be addressed. It's the only part of the game I feel core fundamentals of it is hidden behind a pay wall.
Disagree or troll or whatever. I'm probably not going to be checking back in on this post anyway. This is just how I feel about it presently and I'm giving my personal feedback with the possibility it could help make a game in open beta that I am quite enjoying even better in the future.
I swear to god you are remedial.
Supply and demand applies to gold farming because gold has to be FARMED via gameplay, therefore a supply of gold can fluctuate up and down because it is limited by the finite supply of a gamer's TIME to play the game and accrue gold.
No one has to farm anything to keep the amount of bags in the cash shop high. Now stop being an idiot and go read a textbook, INSIDE preferably.
Sub model players could be rewarded by having most (*) of the cash items removed from the cash store and added to the appropriate loot tables. All items received could be BOP (bags, keys, etc). NPCs could be added that only work for sub players, and they could handle cash shop tasks (like haircuts for example) for gold.
The perks of being a sub player would mostly end once you cancel the sub. You would keep the BOP loot you won, or the items you bought with gold, or the results of the services you bought with gold - but that's it.
(*) clearly some things would remain in the cash shop even if you are a sub player (the LOTRO model is a good example).
If you're too stupid or lazy to make "money" in this game you have ZERO reason to complain.
welcome to capitalism 101.
Where the only two factors that drive the market are
1: selfishness
2: the price the most buyers are willing to pay.
Umm they are not "going strong", they are on life support. Just like Aoc, Warhammer, Aion, EQ1, UO, etc... I worked at SOE for 5 years, trust me, they are scraping buy on their MMOs.
i have no problem in spending money for a game i love the problem is that this days games come and go and old players were used to pay 9$ or 15$ bucks peer month and enjoy that month safe in there knowledge that the game was going to stay there forever i know it wasn't really forever " playing whit there friends
now im playing neverwinter and i dont know if im still going to be playing it in a week time cuze things change and one of the biggest problems i see is ppl not wanting to spend money in the game because its to expensive so the end up leaving the game and that will worries me so im not going to spend money in keys mounts bags etc if im going to leave the game cuze ppl decided to go try the next free to play game that comes out
they offer a free to play game and you are complaining. You are lucky people pay the prices to support the game so you can play for free. This is how they make money, this is not shareware
I could tell soe was having issues when they did the massive changes a couple of years ago to eq 2 to attract more casual players that wouldn't have wnated to worry so much about stats lol. they were a bit too tight on some restrictions ont he ftp, but as a dev said in a video i saw not too long ago they were learning about how to go about the ftp as they went along, they seemed to have done it well with vanguard though. I still have about 4200 sc saved, went and got some anyways ince vanguard was alright for a while, their game I enjoyed the most was everquest online adventures ont he ps2. it's too bad that we didn't have hard drives built into the systems back then, and a service like psn, I heard that underfoot for eqoa was nearly finished but that it would have been too expensive to press and release for the uncertainty of the amount of players it would have gotten. a service like psna nd built in hard drives owuld have kept me playing an extra couple of years in that case, but then again not everyone had broadband back then and many of them had the by today's standards slower dsl to have to download gigs of an expansion on a console lol, not to mention the cost of a decently sized hard drive back then designed for a console, i think the one that came with final fantasy online was only 40 gigs if I remember correctly. I like some of the news about eq next though, every time I get new news about it the game gives me more and more hope that it's gonna be something that can both appeal to a wide audience, AND have lasting appeal to older mmo players. the story ricks stuff is one of the things I am most hopefula bout.
Farewell remorse; all good to me is lost.
Evil, be thou my good.
Also alot of the "complaints" (not all perhaps) would disapear if they stopped trying to smack you in the face with the Zen options, the lockboxes (they drop far to **** often, the market is already completely flooded after just 4 days <- I'm sitting on 29 atm at level 31 -_-), resurection options (honestly these should be hidden when you don't have any), and some of the AD/Compaignon boost options are just to much in your face to feel pleasent.
And last but not least the bags... just giving us 2 bags (2+base) just feels cheap tbh, I don't want free bags or anything like that, but there really should be some craftable bags or alternative options besides buying them for cash, yes I know about the AD : Zen conversion but honestly the time investment in farming "credits" compared to farming "materials" causes vastly different feelings in players.
If I had an option to farm A LOT of materials (equal to the same amount of time investment in AD farming) to make a bag (not even a big one but just a 12 slotter or so) then I wouldn't really complain about the high price for the good bags, since it would give me something to strive for instead of feeling like I'm working to buy something. (especially true for all those saying that trading is the way to make money, I personrally prefer just farming mobs instead of playing a trade simulator)
The thing is, a lot of people WISH this was a $50-60 + $15/month all features unlocked MMO. Looking at the cash shop right now, the traditional MMO pricing scheme seems like a steal.
Other then that I'm sure you guys giving feedback and complaining will have something to be done about it, but remember you have a choice to spend money on it or not to the choice is yours.
The thing is the prices are quite high. As a company you want people to not be hesitant to purchase things and to generally feel the prices are "fair" and offer a good value for the money.
In all the forums I use where I've seen people talking about Nevrwinter I haven't seen a single person say this, almost all of them talk about how "expensive" things are.
To put this in perspective for you take Dyes. It takes three dyes to dye a single piece of clothing fully, it would take multiple "purchases" of dyes to get a whole uniform colour for your outfit. Black dye for instance cost 500zen, that is $5 usd, it would take more then one purchase of this to dye your entire outfit.
I haven't seen a SINGLE person in game that has dyed clothing, why?
1. Dyes are one-use only, after you dye with it it's gone.
2. Why dye your clothing when it will be replaced soon? There's NO reasonable viewpoint here, unless you like wasting money.
I know personally I would LOVE to use the dyes, I used them a TON in Guild wars 2 and loved finding them and even purchased a few dye packs.
However in Neverwinter? I have 0 interest in buying dyes because of the price and limited use.
If dyes were unlimited, or even worked on a limited time (IE say 5 bucks you get to use dyes for 1 month) I would buy some, and many other people would too I'm sure.
As it stands prices are high and are geared too steep to get people to purchase them.
The term "microtransaction" is what many F2p games thrive on, in NWN a lot of things are no where near "micro" transaction pricing, as a whole.
To get mounts? 40 bucks or so, companions, etc.
They need to look at people that have very successful f2p games, companies like Riot games.
No, thank YOU for responding and finally acknowledging it. You just won me back as a customer.
I know it seems simple and stupid, but just this one line was enough for me to hope you guys might consider altering the way things operate in Zen.
You have a great game, otherwise.
Well considering you got a game for free that in its self is a 60 dollar value. Some MMO's you have to buy the game first. 50-60 bucks for that. They may give you a free month but after that you have to pay 15 a month. So in the fist 2 months you can drop 65-75 dollars. Add in a couple more months on top of that and you are sitting at a 100 dollars. Then comes the x-pac at 40.00 bucks. See where I am going with this?
To me a 100 bucks is a 100 bucks no matter when you spend it. Do you have to buy a 40 dollar mount? No. You do not have to buy anything. If you pace your self and watch you spending this game can be cheaper then most b2p mmo's. That includes Gw2. Why? Because there is no barrier to entry. You control you own cash flow.
Now if Cryptic/PWE charged us to use the Foundry/Dungeon content or what have you plus added the high cost cash shop then I could understand what all the fuss is about. As it stands now any one whom complains about the cash shop should just stop.
Oh but any game that might peak players interest that is not free they would spend 60 bucks no problem. Seems to me that most people here that are up in arms about a cash shop for a truly FREE game have never played b2p with a sub mmo. Did you know that even b2p with a sub mmos also have a cash shop? 25 dollar mounts,10 dollar pets,25 dollar character transfer, 25 dollar faction changes etc???
^ So much this.
I simply don't do cash shop games, the last thing I want to do is to spend my limited gaming time on some virtual fantasy equivalent to Amazon. As things stand i will never spend a penny on this game, yet if they had a monthly fee, say the traditional $14.99 a month and you get access to increased bag space, a small selection of mounts and a monthly stipend in funny money etc. then I'd be more than happy to pay.
Of course I would realise that if I cancelled my sub I'd lose access to these things and I'd be happy with that, and that just because you sub wouldn't mean you get access to everything, it would simply give an option to those people who prefer the simplicity of a subscription over having to spend time browsing through some horrible online cash shop. I certainly hope they consider adding a sub option as I'd be more than interested.
So much this.
All of the important stuff in Neverwinter s free. If the core gameplay keeps me hooked, I'll gladly spend 40+ dollars for a mount and extra character slots. Plus I don't see why there has to be an uproar. If you think the cash shop is too expensive, don't use it. Lack of sales is the best form of feed back they can get. If no one buys dyes, then they will lower the price. Prices will start high to get the big bucks from all the super fans, and then come down to get your average player to buy something.
Don't take it personal, just don't buy it.
You have to break it down over time though, and over time a normal mmo might cost...lets see
SWTOR+1 year of 15 dollar reoccuring sub: is about 240 dollars a year with a sub model, which is about the average for any sub mmo.
Lets take a look at this game shall we?
Assuming that you have at least 2 characters... assuming you actually buy good stuff off the auction house...
1x good companion 40 dollars
1x good mount 40 dollars
4x bags 40 dollars
12x dye is 5 dollars gonna need at least 3 of these for any item... so if we dye 1 full outfit, so 60 dollars!
3x bank slot 6 dollars, we'll need say 3 of these... 18 dollars
Now things we need at end game....
Keys
Wards
10 dollars roughly each... so for arguments sake say 1 of these per month...so for 12 months thats 120 dollars x2
Expansions packs: new classes, races, ect since we dont know pricing model lets assume 20 dollars a race and class sounds about in line with other games, it'll end up higher probably.
Drow: 20 dollars
Warlock: 20 dollars
Since thats only 2 announced races.
So lets see what we ended up with in just the first month for ONE character.
i get 358 dollars spent if i only buy the things above, and these are basic commodities, things they assume every player should be buying. You are gonna try and counter with " but you dont need all those things " and i'm going to reply with, yes but THE subscription mmo gives me ALL of those things with 15 dollars a month. See where i am coming from? with a subscription model WE GET IT ALL! for a single value... we do not get nickle and dimed every time we turn around... so in conclusions
NWNO is clearly more expensive every way you swing it, even if we take away the assumed expansion prices mind you CHANCES are will be way more then 2 in a year. Plus also content expansions... gotta buy those too! sorry but... the shop is expensive.... and you cant deny that...numbers are right there... can say grind AD all you want BUT never get half of this stuff with Ad because you need it for ingame things, plus need time to grind it, and never grind it fast enough to acquire basic things... that's by design because they want you to buy stuff!
i've said my peace... and i stand by it! shop is overpriced... i hate idea of using it BUT i really want to support this game because its good!