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Why so much complaining about Zen Store??
perasien
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 24 Arc User
I honestly don't understand at all why people are complaining about... I got to level 60 with my cleric not even buying anything from the Zen store. I probably spent about 500k Diamonds as part of the 2 mil I got with the Founder's pack.
Is the bag space small? Sure. But you can just sell more often. You don't need to keep all bazillion variety of Runes and equipment in your bags all the time...
You don't have to identify every single piece of green armor. Just identify what you can wear and if it is an upgrade. Then vendor the rest...
I haven't even used my free-respec yet as part of the founders pack. Just read carefully what Feats and Powers do, ask higher level players if you are not sure, etc... You don't have to respec every day...
Nightmare Lockboxes? I don't care about the mount at all so I just vendor it as I have the spider mount from the Founder's... Honestly I whole heartily agree that the prices are too steep but you don't have to buy anything from the store to get to max level and run Epic Dungeons... I am pretty sure this is a case of people feeling entitled...
EDIT: Just noticed my Hero of the North title doesn't display so if one of the mods can fix that, it would be awesome!
Is the bag space small? Sure. But you can just sell more often. You don't need to keep all bazillion variety of Runes and equipment in your bags all the time...
You don't have to identify every single piece of green armor. Just identify what you can wear and if it is an upgrade. Then vendor the rest...
I haven't even used my free-respec yet as part of the founders pack. Just read carefully what Feats and Powers do, ask higher level players if you are not sure, etc... You don't have to respec every day...
Nightmare Lockboxes? I don't care about the mount at all so I just vendor it as I have the spider mount from the Founder's... Honestly I whole heartily agree that the prices are too steep but you don't have to buy anything from the store to get to max level and run Epic Dungeons... I am pretty sure this is a case of people feeling entitled...
EDIT: Just noticed my Hero of the North title doesn't display so if one of the mods can fix that, it would be awesome!
Post edited by perasien on
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Ugh this is such an invalid argument. Why are you suffering exactly? Because you don't want to go through and vendor what you don't need?? As I said, I neither upgraded my bank nor my bags yet it is perfectly fine....
Have you tried looking under Permission Groups in your User CP? There is a little check box for it.
People can spot a bad item shop a mile away, and then you compare it with OTHER mmo's and you can see there prices are much much much lower. So what you are seeing is, consumers doing research, and finding out that to play the game they are enjoying at some point gonna end up having to pay good money to play it... while are other games are less buggy, more stable, and have a better item shop out there.
Some try to use the AD to Zen arguement but seriously... talking in the MILLIONS of Ad's to get a simple bag...On top of this i have an issue with being able to BUY AD and insantly HAVE some of the best gear in game. There is a definate problem with that... because its effectively BUYING power... now rich kids can have best thing instantly even if they are terrible.
So why the complaining? because its a terrible pricing model... its not about entitlement its about being a consumer! and being able to spot a rip off when you see it. Like going into any other mmo looking at the auction house, and seeing a bag for 1 gold, then going down the list and seeing one for 1000 gold. Which do you buy? 1 gold bag or the 1000 gold bag? entitlement? hardly...
stop being a blatant fanboy and step back a second and add up how much would cost to buy basic things... in fact i'll do it for you...
3x's bags=30 dollars
1x mount=20-40 dollars
1x companion= 20-40 dollars
1x bank slot enhancement=6 or 7 dollars
so if i when i hit 60 and want to set myself up for end game, play the game seriously and have a basic bag and bank space, a basic mount, a good companion, and some bank slots... you are talking almost 100 dollars investment INTO a game. Now you may be willing to DROP 200 dollars into a game, but not everyone is. As a LONG time D&D fan, someone that BOUGHT DDO out of the gate, someone that had 3.0, 3.5, 4e and pathfinder on release day, preordered LONG before they came out...as a HUGE fan of both mmos and D&D...as someone that WORKS for a living and isnt a kid...
Edit: i also own entire BG series, NWN series, and old DOS krynn series...yea total D&D fanatic x3
I can safely and, confidently say...the item shop is over priced, and that AD farming seems like its going to take me FOREVER to have some basic quality of life items...should be attained long before i reach max level. To have basic everyday items...i'm expected to spend like half my paycheck on a game? i'm sorry but i have bills...and what not to attend to,a family...and while i love the game...
The Item Shop is a RIPP OFF! and i am going to keep warning people not to pay into it... yes i am saying DO not support this game...because they are ripping you off...end of story!
and it saddens me that i have to do that...
As for the reasons why people complain, it's because some people would rather interpret "Free-to-Play" as something else other than what the term means for PWE/Cryptic, and then complain about it.
The poster formerly known as LordOfPit, and his blog.
* Dec 2007 (CO)
* Oct 2008 (STO)
2) Enchantments. $640 for a greater.
The rest I don't care much about. Bag space is limited but largely unnecessary. Mounts are cosmetic. The best pet is the cat and is AD only. Nightmare Lockboxes don't contain anything game breaking/making either.
The real problem though is that people see things they WANT, not need, and then look at the price and think "OMG! That's an obscene price!" People actually get very upset when they can't have what they want at what they feel is a reasonable price and/or when what should be an entertaining leisure activity because depressing because there are roadblocks in the way that relate to the real life they're trying to escape for a bit.
Is it really so surprising people don't like having to consider budgets, finances and possible money problems every 5 minutes while playing a game because their leisure activity keeps saying "Hey! You should buy this... if you can afford it..."
Note: I'm not complaining, but you asked a question. There's an answer.
All I am saying is that, eventually, the prices will come down. It is all about supply and demand. Because this is a new game, of course they are trying to get as much money out of it as they can, which is understandable. Also, I honestly don't believe there is any other free-to-play MMO that is as good as this game (personal opinion) so it is not fair to compare prices.
$100 'investment' in an MMO isn't too much -- considering the hours of entertainment. And how much did you pay for your last subscription MMO?
Here is where it gets interesting. The same people who complain about the prices, would be glad to pay "what is acceptable to them". Of course they don't even realize what they are happy to pay might be just too much for somebody else... Selfishness at it's best.
The funny thing is, the fanboys trying to blindly protect bad business models will ultimately lead to Neverwinter's failure. The overpriced cash shop is going to push players away from the game and cause a slow decline in server population. Until the price points are seriously revised, there is nowhere to go but down.
DDO... shatters this game in all aspects... as far as being as close to D&D as possible it hits the nail on the head. Its dungeons are far more in depth...traps in that game are sometimes world shattering...the need for a group from almost the get go... the fact that can have a bazillion differant builds, want a two handed sword wielding, mage? go for it!
On top of this DDO has BEST pricing model i have ever seen for any game, while can grind out points to get the unlocks... game basically lets you buy dungeons you want to play, buy each pack of areas... can buy cosmetics and even some basic gear(though get same stuff in game within first hour). On top of ALLLL of that can sub and get access to EVEEEERY thing...
Is combat as action packed and enjoyable? maybe not...and i am enjoying the overall feel and style of this game...but that said! you cant sit there and claim its best mmo ever...because its not. Tera does the combat better, TOR does story better, DDO does the dungeons better... This game is a nice middle road of all of those mmos which is great!
But i'm being honest... reason you are seeing complaints are what i listed above, now if need those things or not is up for debate... having to run back to a vender after every quest isnt my idea of fun especially since i'll do 3 or 4 quests together, by end i usually running out of space... thats called being an efficient quester.
I hope what people say is true and most of the issues i am seeing fix themselves at max level... because right now i just cant see spending all that money on the shop items. Its flat out just insane... I guess what i was trying to say was, JUST because you dont need an item doesnt mean its ok to put a 100 dollar price tag on that item. Things need to be reasonable... i do not find the item shop prices reasonable.
I certainly didnt pay 100 dollars in the first month of the game... only mmo i ever did that for was DCUO and, i regret that in retrospect... it taught me a valuable lesson. NEVER put money into something before either trying it or seeing a valid review from a trusted source(and not talking ign or some other publication).
Its still a ripp off per item thats my point, i've got money i want to put into this game but i just cant force myself to pay these prices...
Cryptic don't even need to redefine the prices or something. They just need to bring it on same level as CO and STO.
If were talking about cash shop strictly. Look up GGG and Path of Exile, what a real F2P truly is. PWE is known for their money grab tactics. You like this game? Then you should not support the cash shop, because thats the only way PWE will learn. Most of PWE's games are relatively dead, their cash shops kill their games.
Then players should really control or tone down their need for immediate gratification. Shopping is a leisure activity too, I hope people are not beating themselves up over not being able to afford all the shinies in the shops.
Again, it is all personal opinion... If you think it is unacceptable for you, then don't spend money on it... Like I said you are by no means forced to spend money on the cash shop...
Do you not understand the basic principles of economics? What university did you graduate from, so I can slap your dean?
I am confused about this post. If I like this game and have money to spend on their prices, why shouldn't I??
Well, it's their business and all of us are just customers, fanboys or not. Vote with your wallet. *Shrug*
Oh I understand economics plenty. I think you are the one who doesn't get it. Prices are set where they are because it is a new game and there is much "demand" for it. So, realistically, of course they are going to charge insane prices. What world are you living in by the way? Take ANY consumer product and compare the prices at release with a year after...
Listen, if you like this game then you need to take the outrage over the cash shop seriously. People playing and complaining are not just gamers, they are consumers, and they are telling the business owner that the price of their product is outrageous and many refuse to pay it.
The business owner can either adjust their prices to attract more consumers, or they can go out of business.
So... you might not think it's a problem for you right now, but when the Neverwinter servers come down permanently because the majority of players refuse to pay $10 for a bag, it will become your problem real fast.
Oh I see... So you think that no one is buying those bags at $10 pop yet Cryptic is just insisting that people pay that price? Do you really believe that? Do you honestly think they would charge that price and keep it there if people where not paying for it?? Wow...
Gonna slightly disagree with you in that...if we dont spend money on this game PWE might just pull the plug hence my conundrum... do i spend money on a pricing model i KNOW is terrible...yet risk losing out on a legitimately good game. It is really a lose, lose situation for us consumers...either we get ripped off, or we end up losing out on a solid game.
He was refering to path of exiles, and a game is a big hit selling tons purely on cosmetic items... and doesnt lock anything out what so ever. Path of exiles...is possibly the best f2p model ever, but not convinced it would work in a game like this... that said you are entitled to your opinion and it is your money. Just dont come *****ing at those of us who are clearly upset at how expensive it is, just because you are well to do and can afford to drop 200 dollars on a game you've never played.
Oh god... just... no.
These are digital items, they are not real. They can be created out of thin air and have zero raw material costs, therefore the concept of "supply" does not exist because the supply is infinite.
Do you actually believe someone in the back of the Neverwinter office is handcrafting each individual bag and mount for the cash shop? Why on earth would you even think the concept of supply and demand is appropriate here? It just makes no sense.
Oh, I KNOW people are paying it. Just not enough people to support the model. Do you know the concept of a price point? Neverwinter is over theirs, and it is causing them a loss of business that puts in jeopardy the survival of the game. It is not a question of "either or" which you keep trying to reduce it to, but a question of economic efficiency.
Oh really? so those bags just magically appear without any effort? What about the code and development that goes along with it? What about the labor that is involved in creating these digital goods? Of course supply and demand applies whether the goods are digital or material. Supply is not a concept that only applies to "raw materials"...
You and I both know very well that you are in no position whatsoever to make any claims in regards to their business model, business sustainability, and profitability.
Like I mentioned in my original post, I have not spent a dime on the cash shop. I dropped $200 on the game because getting 5 days ead start on 4 day weekend for me was worth it. Hell, I would have spent 3 times that if i were to just go eat out, see some movies, do some shopping, etc.