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Pay to win. (P2W) the real meaning.
scan69
Member Posts: 120 Arc User
First off I hope this is not deleted but I expect it will be.
My first point is the developer of this game does not understand or has a very different definition of P2W than what it actually means.
As far as I know P2W is "Pay to win" it means if you have unlimited resources you can "pay" to buy an advantage over those that don't.
..and I have NEVER played a bigger P2W game than NW. I am lvl 55 at the time of this writing. I will be lvl 60 before early access ends for the 3 day pass. This in itself does not bode well but what is worse is the fact I was passed by people not even leaving town. Yes you can hit 60 in a matter of hours by spending AD's to speed up crafting and getting XP.
Now that alone is not really a problem, but the fact is you can buy Zen and trade it for AD's to purchase gear from the AH giving a HUGE advantage in any competitive forum, be it PvE or PvP. From buying things to boost DPS or health or even resurrecting after death at the spot you died!
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Ultimately i'm not that bothered tbh, I DID enjoy and will still enjoy the game for while, however I HIGHLY doubt this title has ANY longevity at all and expect it to crash and burn as the biggest P2W game of all time. Other games in the future will compared to this and not in a favourable light.
My first point is the developer of this game does not understand or has a very different definition of P2W than what it actually means.
As far as I know P2W is "Pay to win" it means if you have unlimited resources you can "pay" to buy an advantage over those that don't.
..and I have NEVER played a bigger P2W game than NW. I am lvl 55 at the time of this writing. I will be lvl 60 before early access ends for the 3 day pass. This in itself does not bode well but what is worse is the fact I was passed by people not even leaving town. Yes you can hit 60 in a matter of hours by spending AD's to speed up crafting and getting XP.
Now that alone is not really a problem, but the fact is you can buy Zen and trade it for AD's to purchase gear from the AH giving a HUGE advantage in any competitive forum, be it PvE or PvP. From buying things to boost DPS or health or even resurrecting after death at the spot you died!
----
Ultimately i'm not that bothered tbh, I DID enjoy and will still enjoy the game for while, however I HIGHLY doubt this title has ANY longevity at all and expect it to crash and burn as the biggest P2W game of all time. Other games in the future will compared to this and not in a favourable light.
Guild vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzkNeF2SgE0
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Btw just to point it out sense Cryptic skipped basic Classes and went strait to the "Heroic" classes. Every Cleric in DnD reguardless of "Heroic" path choice gets Raise Dead. By making it ZEN store only they break what little emursion they maybe trying for.
(sorry my spelling stinks.)
Provide constructive feedback and vote with your wallet and maybe things will change.
you do realize that trading works both ways free player can buy free zen
all it will ever be is a speed advantage nothing more
and who cares how fast people lvl it ain't a race people need to chill out
when they start selling armor with mad stats that can only be obtained with cash then ill complain
if your upset cos your a tight *** and dont spend a dime be thankful others pay for your free game:rolleyes:
What exactly did you win? Your character would have eventually been 60 anyway. Unless you really enjoy crafting in this game, all you did was pay to win at being bored.
PvE isn't a competitive style of play, so it won't be a problem. It might be a problem in PvP. That depends on what determines victory. If gear or stats is the major factor it may be a problem. If skill is the major factor, it won't be a problem.
This title has enormous potential for longevity, especially for RP fans. The Foundry makes it so.
They also have many ways to make money on this game that don't require giving game advantage to sell. Cosmetic items will appeal to the RP crowd, and the Foundry will draw many here.
There is the potential to add many new classes to game. So long as they are balanced, they shouldn't provide in game benefit. Even if they won't charge for classes as some have said, it will still create a demand for character slots.
This game could have a lot of legs if handled well.
Now the point of buying AD with zen is controlled by players. The price you pay in zen to by AD is determined by the players so the players control the pay 2 win aspect.. However if this system did not exist then it would be more p2w as the people who by zen will have access to mounts, pots etc etc and other who did not would not be able to get them without buying them with ad from ah at the buyers price.
im not sure if im making my point well.. but yea, think about that before complaining about the system thats been set up.
The Shadow Cast Channel - Neverwinter Gameplay
I can see your point but tbh I think your wrong, I think this game has massive longevity far beyond most due to the Foundry for one. Zen is there and is the monster that MUST be fed to ensure the game is profitable to run for Cryptic,and you know what I can live with that. A free game that's free to play and full of free updates must a cost attached somewhere and if that's level up packs or inventory slots or resurrection or whatever its a very small price to pay.
Peace.
Paying money for a respec in an rpg is not a convenience.It's a rip off and downright insulting.Apart from that it's true that the game is not P2W. Even the respec issue can not be considered P2W honestly.It's just frustratingly stupid..
I, like many here, disagree with your premise and thus find the rest of the argument failing from the base assumption.
P2W to me is when paying gets you combat/power advantages that playing for free does not allow one to attain/achieve.
Paying to decrease grind is not P2W, no matter how severe the grind is.
Everything in the game is attainable with in-game play, including Zen.
And anyone complaining about this game's grind is fairly new to MMOs, you kids don't know grind.
Now if this was a topic about reducing grind... perhaps by making the AD to Zen ratio 40-400 (instead of 50-500 as it is now), that is a different topic. It is a discussion about reducing the grind and not about whether the game is P2W.
This game is pay for convenience, pay for vanity, but not pay to win.
Pretty much this! P2W means people paying cash get items people in-game CANNOT achieve. Special ammo in world of tanks for example.
also
This! I am 48 now and I was literally just telling my friend the grind to 60 is super easy, because I still gain levels pretty frequently.
I'm sorry.....did you just say getting to 60 super fast by wasting tons of real life money on AD to craft faster and miss all of the content in between equals....."winning"? ROFL.
Simply put, it doesn't unless you let it.
This makes it a personal problem existing solely with YOU and you inability to get over it.
Life isn't fair princess so I suggest you eat a bag of cement and harden the hell up.
I don't know what you mean by "original f2p" but f2p originated in the Asian market and you should have a look over there to see where f2p is potentially going.
The only thing you can pay is accelerate the progress. Good luck considering THAT a "winning".
As others have said, you clearly haven't played many games if you think this. (The most obvious examples of "p2w" would be pvp-centered games where, in order to be competitive, you have to buy a constant stream of consumables from the cash shop.)
As for people talking about "grind"...... if players have already hit 60? There's no "grind" in this game. Heck, I've been toying around with Uncharted Waters Online recently. Been playing 3-4 weeks and (with a bonus XP event for part of the time) have gotten to levels 29/23/20 (max 70/70/70). And 20/20/20 of that was achieved in the two weeks I spent doing the "Maritime School" tutorial quests, that gave bonus xp. With my skills in the 3-5 range (max 15). Based on wiki reading, just leveling the Shipbuilding skill (one I don't have yet) can be expected to take 500-600 hours. If you're following an "efficient leveling" guide. Now that's a game that has some grind to it.
And that means that the things you can buy via microtransactions are somewhat viable or desireable. Because if it's only vanitystuff only a very small fraction would buy it. So it actually has to give some benefit, be it achieving something faster or plain better gear. It's hard for those that don't want to spend a cent on the game, but when you're realistic, those are also not the ones the game is designed for. The freeloaders won't help the company because they don't spend a single cent for their entertainment.
What is debateable is the amount of money you need to pump into the game in order to get a decent experience out of it. So far the pricing seems to be somewhat off, because I'm sure as hell not going to spend 10 € on a bag or something like that...then again, someone else might.
tl;dr: Don't expect f2p mmos to be entirely free. That's just ridiculously naive.
It's not as simple as you put it. If you are a MMO fan, Forgotten realms fan, D&D fan, and someone makes a game including all 3 you are going to want it to be perfect, that's why so many people are pissed off, because they know too well, how P2W model works out.
When not playing the game is more rewarding than playing it - that's terrible design.
When you can acquire end game gear with money - that's terrible design. Imagine you are trying to find a group for a high level instance, and 3 out of 5 players have paid for their gear and levels, but played only a couple of days. They will have no clue what they're doing, and you'll waste time. This happens VERY frequently in other games, even in those where selling and buying characgters/gear is illegal, because unskilled people are doing everything to bypass it. That's why this is a HUGE issue and will make clearing instances with PUG's pretty much impossible, which strips the game from a big part of it's essence.
Let's just say that I am the classic power gamer. I will log in and crush mobs for hours upon hours and rarely if ever say anything to anyone. That said, if I do say something to someone it will be in character. Thus I am both a power gamer and a role player.
I have spent hours online in NWN doing nothing but RP.
One thing I have learned playing RPGs over 11 years is that there are some people think that maxing out levels and gear the quickest makes them a winner.
Actually the opposite is true. You can not "win" an RPG. Playing an RPG is done for the experience of stepping in the shoes of the character for a while. If it is done for the sole purpose of "winning" then you have become an empty soul. Enjoy your exclusive tags, enjoy the uber equipment that lets you wade through much to easy mobs. I will piddle put my way to the top and enjoy the experience or I will simply quit. Getting twinked by impossible enemies in PVP isn't enjoyable. Say good by to SWOTR and Aion.
As a huge fan of Wizards of the Coast and a D20 player for 30 years I hope they haven't ruined the economy or the immersion for those of us who like to play. If I can slay some balanced monsters in a well laid out story line I'll spend some on a cute pair of shoes or a dress but not $60, hello Tera... goodby.
If Atari holds true to history they will ruin the game through customer support and brow bashing the community. I doubt they have learned anything over the years about customer retention. Maybe sometime soon in the near future they will learn to treat us nice and not just demand cash. The way they discard developers is really sad too. Why they can't roll them into another project is a mystery to me and totally disgusts me. At least in e-commerce I can gouge my temp clients. You know I have to have 6 different rate structures? 1-day, 1-week, 2-week, 1-month, 3-month, and 6+months. Why e-commerce? Cause the game development industry got stupid crazy. I have to applaud the developers at Bluehole! Kids don't sign those NDAs if the code you write isn't yours. Why pay $120k for an education and trade it for a temp 3 month contract with any company. Don't do it. Best to starve on your own terms. You won't though. The result is less quality talent at the development level and developers that don't care. Even recruiters have gotten in on demanding ownership of your work. Greed kills culture, well rather, it becomes the culture. Art is a reflection of culture. Thus the golden years of gaming are gone.
CRect HAMSTER; // darn near killed'em
my $search_key = $something_else;
foreach (keys %some_hash) {
if ($_ eq $search_key) {
do_something($_);
}
else();
}
locked by NullUserException
Incorrect. When you die, a short timer starts (I think 12 seconds). As long as another player reaches you before it hits zero, any player can rez you. After that, you respawn at the closest campfire. I'm only level 34 but in all the zones I've played so far the respawn points are never more than a 30 second walk from where I've died.
If a game has any form of in game item gain other than cosmetic stuff like glows and wardrobe items and skin looks or mounts AFTER YOU HAVE PURCHASED ONE! then the game is P2W.
I havent played myself yet cause i could never get into beta weekends because my secondary email is registered here and i never check it but after reading this forums its quite clear.
IRL Money-->Zen-->Diamonds = Pay to Win.
Doesnt matter if its "Not the best items" but its pay to win all the way since you can buy in game items through diamonds that you get from Zen.
Stop pushing the subject, its just die hard fanboyism.
I do hope the game is good since i am gonna play in 3 hours, but frankly i am completely turned off after i read the last few days at the forums that you can get in game currency for IRL money.
Only POE is the real F2P items, i havent heard of another game that is really free..Those saying LoL is are deluded, its because you started LoL very late and you werent there are the start when the first 30's bought all their runes and destroyed you while you didnt have any ..Its not P2W anymore but it was at the first few months ;D
Once again if you don't like it, don't play it it's not that hard, nobody is forcing you to play it. Go try DDO and tell me how bad you think this is...
so P2W really does not exist in my world.
So your definition holds no barring on my game play and I would like the OP to stop talking for everyone.