starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
How is paying with time or cash P2W? Some people have lots of time, but no cash while others have lots of cash and no time. Seems like a satisfactory arrangement for both groups. Considering Cryptic's stance on making very rare equipment not very rare at all, it doesn't matter if people can buy purple level 60 weapons as long as they don't have better stats than other very rare level 60 equipment. Nightmare weapons might have a cool demonic look (haven't seen a picture of them yet), but that does not make them P2W. With Ardent coins, I can outfit all my characters in Drake Seal equipment or whatever it is called without any serious effort except praying once a day on each character. Might take a few months, but it is possible.
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townheroMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Oh you are right. I should pay money to skip the games content and quests by paying money to repeat 1 quest all day for an OP amnt of xp.
Sounds like an idiot with to much money and perfect world is just the company for you lol.
You may not care what pay to win stuff is in this game. You may not personally care if sold xp is pay to win. Facts are facts. If you can buy advantages its pay to win and this game is so littered with exactly those types of sales. To say it is not....well you know your brain is broken...
thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
its not the p2w aspect (if there is any) it's more how everything is reliant on players spending real money to do the most mundane things like posting on the AH, respecs, buying items etc
Yes you can earn AD from invoking your deity but thats gives such a minuscule amount it'd take a non paying player ages to amass enough AD just to consider posting things on the AH.
PWE would be smart to allow players to exchange gold for AD and make the exchaning of AD to Zen less convoluted and more simple. Let players transfer their currency account wide and stop being a money hungry vulture.
its not the p2w aspect (if there is any) it's more how everything is reliant on players spending real money to do the most mundane things like posting on the AH, respecs, buying items etc
Yes you can earn AD from invoking your deity but thats gives such a minuscule amount it'd take a non paying player ages to amass enough AD just to consider posting things on the AH.
PWE would be smart to allow players to exchange gold for AD and make the exchaning of AD to Zen less convoluted and more simple. Let players transfer their currency account wide and stop being a money hungry vulture.
You can get AD in many ways, not just Invoking.
And you know the reason why they don't let you convert Gold to AD to Zen? Because of the market it creates for gold sellers. This is a free to play game, meaning it's a lot easier for sellers to get into the game and farm, ruin the economy, make a dump truck of money and effectively ruin exchange rates for the rest of legit players - thus making the only effective way of buying Zen a visit to a shady 3rd party website that may/may not steal your credit card number and/or game account.
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And you know the reason why they don't let you convert Gold to AD to Zen? Because of the market it creates for gold sellers. This is a free to play game, meaning it's a lot easier for sellers to get into the game and farm, ruin the economy, make a dump truck of money and effectively ruin exchange rates for the rest of legit players - thus making the only effective way of buying Zen a visit to a shady 3rd party website that may/may not steal your credit card number and/or game account.
from skirmishes yeah?
also just to be clear I am enjoying the game, i just find some of the currency restrictions a little annoying.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited April 2013
the only pay to win aspect of the zen store are bags. i'm 30 now, have done every quest on level on the way up and have had only one quest for a new bag. if i did not buy bags at the zen store i would have only the two bags and serious inventory problems since the bank space is ridiculously small.
the only way to get bags is from the zen store, or from someone who bought them on the zen store and listed them on the auction house for astral diamonds. it's likely these bags are not going to be sold for less than what you can exchange zen for diamonds so...don't even see the point of that.
Oh you are right. I should pay money to skip the games content and quests by paying money to repeat 1 quest all day for an OP amnt of xp.
Sounds like an idiot with to much money and perfect world is just the company for you lol.
You may not care what pay to win stuff is in this game. You may not personally care if sold xp is pay to win. Facts are facts. If you can buy advantages its pay to win and this game is so littered with exactly those types of sales. To say it is not....well you know your brain is broken...
lol **** kids.. why do i always get baited into replying anyways?
I haven't played the game yet but I probably won't have to pay for much if anything at all, I always make a ton of money flipping the auction house so I'm not saying any of this with any bias.
You should pay money to skip content? The great this is No, You don't have to. Play it and enjoy it. How does somebody else leveling a little bit faster effect you in any way?
No it's not for me, Like I said I'm not doing that. But I'm not gunna whine that somebody else is.
I do care if there is wildly p2w things in the game, It would destroy it, and there very well could be. An exp boost is NOT one of them.
It depends on what your term play to win is.
Does the game have things in it that are HUGE time sinks unless you spend Astral Diamonds? Are there TONS of things that you can spend Astral Diamonds on? Is the only way of getting Astral Diamonds from other players either through the Auction House or Trade Market? Yes to all those questions.
Do you have to buy Zen to accomplish all of this? No. But it will take a long time.
P2W for me is having to buy Zen to progress in a game.
That said there's tons of stuff on the Zen Store and AD Vendors that I think should be cut in half. I also think you should be able to have a small chance of finding keys to unlock lock boxes. I wouldn't call that P2W. I would call it expensive though.
Ok. Games that are NOT p2w are lol and poe for example.. Their cash shop is ONLY about cosmetics, skins, visuals... not improving the gameplay power at all.. now here in neverwinter things are a little more complicated, xp boosts, buy keys for lockboxes, wtf is that... i m waiting to c if i play this game which was the most anticipated in my game list... i m a bit but lets c today :S
If you feel that P2W means that someone can pay and obtain something that grants in-game power advantages even if they could also obtain it from normal gameplay, then YES.
This is only P2W definition that means anything to me and the one definition that would turn people away from playing.
It is the very definition that will sink this game.
ynygmaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited April 2013
Waiting for maintenance to be done but I need to add my 2 cents as well:)
While I would agree that F2P games where the only thing you are buying is cosmetic is definitely not P2W, I also agree that someone who has less time than others to play the game can buy that epic mount, weapon, whatever, as long as it is the same stats as those who got it without paying real money for it. The only advantage the person gets for paying for it, is he did not have to grind, raid, etc for it; instead he had to pay $200 (just example) of real money. That's his/her prerogative. Now if said weapon had better stats or in some way had some other advantage, then I would have an issue.
Some guy/gal who has a very tight schedule wont have time to raid with his friends, guild whatever and when he/she finally does, his gear is too low, etc. This is why I really like this F2P business model, now that guy/gal has the opportunity to "buy with real money" the gear he/she needs so they can raid end game, etc their buddies. I think that is great:) Of course this is all speculatory on what Cryptic will offer that you can "pay for"; this is just my example:)
Woot! maintenance almost done now:)
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That said there's tons of stuff on the Zen Store and AD Vendors that I think should be cut in half. I also think you should be able to have a small chance of finding keys to unlock lock boxes. I wouldn't call that P2W. I would call it expensive though.
yes! Somebody with logic! Keys should have a small chance to drop off mobs just as they do in GW2.
Also acquiring bags shouldn't be just via Zen/AD.
yes! Somebody with logic! Keys should have a small chance to drop off mobs just as they do in GW2.
Also acquiring bags shouldn't be just via Zen/AD.
Will prolly not happen. STO players (and maybe even some CO players) have been asking for the LockBox Keys to drop in game sense they were added. Still hasn't happened. Most they will likely do is allow you to sell them on the games Auction System.
P2W? No and yes. everything in the store can be purchased without spending a single money, it just takes you much more time than spending. It's Pay To Grind if you wanna say, not pay to win
P2W? No and yes. everything in the store can be purchased without spending a single money, it just takes you much more time than spending. It's Pay To Grind if you wanna say, not pay to win
provided you spend your earned diamonds on nothing else yo ucan farm 60 cents or so per day at current rates. however diamonds are used for a LOT of things in this game unlike sto or co. nobody can predict what the zen to diamond conversion is going to look like a few months from now.
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elenoe8Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
that sounds like demagogy and trolling (repeat arguments of others without checking them, but already complaining)
Just saying If people consider speeding progress up then EVERY single game (subscription, F2P, P2P] are also P2W as in EVERY single one I can use real money for speeding progress and/or buy action items for RL money. Legaly or not. Doesn't matter in this.
provided you spend your earned diamonds on nothing else yo ucan farm 60 cents or so per day at current rates. however diamonds are used for a LOT of things in this game unlike sto or co. nobody can predict what the zen to diamond conversion is going to look like a few months from now.
Still you can purchase store items without spending. Therefore, it's not P2W
eh I haven't played yet but the only thing with concern which someone mentioned devs are looking at is the insta health item and rez scrolls.... also wtf can a cleric not rez.... *sighs* gona have to start doing a mantra of "this is not D&D"
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verylittleanaxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited April 2013
If the best gear is going to be BoE, like it is right now, then the game is P2W by my definition since you can trade it on AH for AD, and you can effectively buy AD for ZEN (dollars)
So.. If: End gear = BoE, then the game is P2W and I'm not playing. Otherwise, it's just a really agressive F2P model
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If the best gear is going to be BoE, like it is right now, then the game is P2W by my definition since you can trade it on AH for AD, and you can effectively buy AD for ZEN (dollars)
So.. If: End gear = BoE, then the game is P2W and I'm not playing. Otherwise, it's just a really agressive F2P model
well level 60's already running around in all epics and then a tonne on the AH even before open beta has launched the game is doomed to be a short lived experience.
Pay to win means that, no matter how hard you try, you can't get things as good as what I pay for without paying. Since this situation does not exist in this game, At All, there is no pay to win. That's it. That's the end. You CAN get everything in the game without paying. EVERYTHING. I may be able to get it faster than you, but that has NO bearing on your gameplay.
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Literal definition
1. pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
So in summation no it is not Pay to win because it still gives you NO advantage over players that play without paying
what i'm worried about is if they released paid dungeons, I used to be a big DDO fan then after realizing you have to skip some dungeons because you have to pay for them really turned me off, you end up grinding a low level dungeons just to reach the next free one, and if they started making gears that can be used only by paid players, I'll only believe a game that it's free to play all over if they only sell vanity stuff just like PoE did.
actually, devs, you should only sell vanity stuff, trust me, you get more players and players are happy for making an awesome game that you'd actually get more sales than forcing players to buy stuff
funny thing is 90% of the western players dont even know what defines a p2w game and tbh wester game makers rare ever make a true p2w game. p2w normally when you are loterally forced to pay for upgrade upgrades that ARE NOT OBTAINABLE INGAME thus forcing you to pay to win.
But either way perfect world pretty good at making zen available to people who cant afford it you can normally earn it ingame least you could in startrek and you can do some of the surveys for free zen some surveys are easy and dont requier much sure its slow but hey.
Comments
Sounds like an idiot with to much money and perfect world is just the company for you lol.
You may not care what pay to win stuff is in this game. You may not personally care if sold xp is pay to win. Facts are facts. If you can buy advantages its pay to win and this game is so littered with exactly those types of sales. To say it is not....well you know your brain is broken...
Twitter ~ Google+ ~ Raptr ~ Siren Sanctuary ~ MMO-Society
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Yes you can earn AD from invoking your deity but thats gives such a minuscule amount it'd take a non paying player ages to amass enough AD just to consider posting things on the AH.
PWE would be smart to allow players to exchange gold for AD and make the exchaning of AD to Zen less convoluted and more simple. Let players transfer their currency account wide and stop being a money hungry vulture.
You can get AD in many ways, not just Invoking.
And you know the reason why they don't let you convert Gold to AD to Zen? Because of the market it creates for gold sellers. This is a free to play game, meaning it's a lot easier for sellers to get into the game and farm, ruin the economy, make a dump truck of money and effectively ruin exchange rates for the rest of legit players - thus making the only effective way of buying Zen a visit to a shady 3rd party website that may/may not steal your credit card number and/or game account.
from skirmishes yeah?
also just to be clear I am enjoying the game, i just find some of the currency restrictions a little annoying.
the only way to get bags is from the zen store, or from someone who bought them on the zen store and listed them on the auction house for astral diamonds. it's likely these bags are not going to be sold for less than what you can exchange zen for diamonds so...don't even see the point of that.
lol **** kids.. why do i always get baited into replying anyways?
I haven't played the game yet but I probably won't have to pay for much if anything at all, I always make a ton of money flipping the auction house so I'm not saying any of this with any bias.
You should pay money to skip content? The great this is No, You don't have to. Play it and enjoy it. How does somebody else leveling a little bit faster effect you in any way?
No it's not for me, Like I said I'm not doing that. But I'm not gunna whine that somebody else is.
I do care if there is wildly p2w things in the game, It would destroy it, and there very well could be. An exp boost is NOT one of them.
Does the game have things in it that are HUGE time sinks unless you spend Astral Diamonds? Are there TONS of things that you can spend Astral Diamonds on? Is the only way of getting Astral Diamonds from other players either through the Auction House or Trade Market? Yes to all those questions.
Do you have to buy Zen to accomplish all of this? No. But it will take a long time.
P2W for me is having to buy Zen to progress in a game.
That said there's tons of stuff on the Zen Store and AD Vendors that I think should be cut in half. I also think you should be able to have a small chance of finding keys to unlock lock boxes. I wouldn't call that P2W. I would call it expensive though.
This is only P2W definition that means anything to me and the one definition that would turn people away from playing.
It is the very definition that will sink this game.
While I would agree that F2P games where the only thing you are buying is cosmetic is definitely not P2W, I also agree that someone who has less time than others to play the game can buy that epic mount, weapon, whatever, as long as it is the same stats as those who got it without paying real money for it. The only advantage the person gets for paying for it, is he did not have to grind, raid, etc for it; instead he had to pay $200 (just example) of real money. That's his/her prerogative. Now if said weapon had better stats or in some way had some other advantage, then I would have an issue.
Some guy/gal who has a very tight schedule wont have time to raid with his friends, guild whatever and when he/she finally does, his gear is too low, etc. This is why I really like this F2P business model, now that guy/gal has the opportunity to "buy with real money" the gear he/she needs so they can raid end game, etc their buddies. I think that is great:) Of course this is all speculatory on what Cryptic will offer that you can "pay for"; this is just my example:)
Woot! maintenance almost done now:)
Also acquiring bags shouldn't be just via Zen/AD.
Will prolly not happen. STO players (and maybe even some CO players) have been asking for the LockBox Keys to drop in game sense they were added. Still hasn't happened. Most they will likely do is allow you to sell them on the games Auction System.
[URL]="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/class/index.asp"]What Class Are You?[/URL]
provided you spend your earned diamonds on nothing else yo ucan farm 60 cents or so per day at current rates. however diamonds are used for a LOT of things in this game unlike sto or co. nobody can predict what the zen to diamond conversion is going to look like a few months from now.
um yeah
for horse skin, weapon skin or companion
that sounds like demagogy and trolling (repeat arguments of others without checking them, but already complaining)
Just saying
Still you can purchase store items without spending. Therefore, it's not P2W
[URL]="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/class/index.asp"]What Class Are You?[/URL]
So.. If: End gear = BoE, then the game is P2W and I'm not playing. Otherwise, it's just a really agressive F2P model
well level 60's already running around in all epics and then a tonne on the AH even before open beta has launched the game is doomed to be a short lived experience.
1. pay-to-win
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
So in summation no it is not Pay to win because it still gives you NO advantage over players that play without paying
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus