That one hour in which i got that 19K felt not like work, but like play.
My real life Job feels like work, and is more rewarding for time invested. . .So why would I invest time in something that felt like "Work" but with lower rewards?
So if I happily "farm" for a few months to get the latest "Leet" stuff what does it matter how long it took? If I enjoy the journey?
Those scenarios are not based upon farming for "leet" stuff. They are about farming for basic items required to play the game on a regular level. The items earned through the zen store are not cosmetic - They are every day items such as the best potions.
Those scenarios are not based upon farming for "leet" stuff. They are about farming for basic items required to play the game on a regular level. The items earned through the zen store are not cosmetic - They are every day items such as the best potions.
Soooo, one NEEDS those scrolls to even get into the endgame dungeons?
what you consider "Basic" I consider a crutch for casuals. . .
Soooo, one NEEDS those scrolls to even get into the endgame dungeons?
what you consider "Basic" I consider a crutch for casuals. . .
Scrolls? I'm talking about potions, not scrolls. There was a much more detailed thread about this issue which I created in the beta forums. Alas, PWE chose to delete those forums because they were littered with valid criticism regarding their business model. The basic point is this - If you put the most powerful healing potion in the game in the cash shop, the players who care about performing on a high level WILL use it.
The faster the player base (and all players who care about their performance) clear the content, the faster the discontent on the forums will grow regarding how easy the content is. In the end, you cannot ignore the most powerful item in the game while balancing content regardless of whether it's in the cash shop or not. Content will eventually be balanced for the game that exists - and the game that exists includes the most powerful healing potion. That potion is ONLY available in the cash shop.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
I got so many people telling me that Neverwinter will be Pay to Win "don't play it". Honestly I don't believe but it does have me worried.
this is because of how cryptic and perfect world handled sto, specifically lock box ships like the jem'hadar heavy escort carrier, jem'hadar attack ships and jem'hadar attack ship pets as well as EVERYTHING in the lobi store.
most of that stuff is or very near to the best in the game, making it very p2w
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Scrolls? I'm talking about potions, not scrolls. There was a much more detailed thread about this issue which I created in the beta forums. Alas, PWE chose to delete those forums because they were littered with valid criticism regarding their business model. The basic point is this - If you put the most powerful healing potion in the game in the cash shop, the players who care about performing on a high level WILL use it.
The faster the player base (and all players who care about their performance) clear the content, the faster the discontent on the forums will grow regarding how easy the content is. In the end, you cannot ignore the most powerful item in the game while balancing content regardless of whether it's in the cash shop or not. Content will eventually be balanced for the game that exists - and the game that exists includes the most powerful healing potion. That potion is ONLY available in the cash shop.
the reviews for this game will be interesting. it's cryptics first game since joining up with pwe and using their f2p models in both sto and co. i have a feeling that the absurd pricing of some of the items and the choices made with regards to bags, potions, id scrolls and the auction house currency are going to weigh heavy on it come metacritic time.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
and if it takes months thats fine. . . you're still paying, just in time not money. . .
And you don't need every sparkle pony to enjoy the game. . .Unless you are a collector
highly suspect number imo. i find it unlikely you picked up from the npc's and then finished all of the dailies in a single 60 minute session, let alone anything else.
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archanjo17041985Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
this game is NOT pay to win. trust me. i played mmos since 1998 , i know a pay to win when i see it ( aion , runs of magic , the upcoming dragon's prophet never trust runewaker ) , allods. e.t.c e.t.c.
i am only level 30 i bought guardians pack and in 30 levels i made 550.000 AD. almost in 1 million without spendind 1 cent.
you just need to focus om your main goal. if it is have AD there is PLENTY of things you can do to get them. and my friends on 60 say that they make double as i do at level 20 / 30. if i made 550k in 30 levels i dont see the pay to win .
if some 1 says its pay to win it i because he / she made it pay to win, not the developers.
i7 3770k @ 4.0//HD 7950 WF3//16 GB ram Corsair @ 1600//Corsair 120 GB SSD x 2//Hyper Evo 212
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coldfusion1122Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
this game is NOT pay to win. trust me. i played mmos since 1998 , i know a pay to win when i see it ( aion , runs of magic , the upcoming dragon's prophet never trust runewaker ) , allods. e.t.c e.t.c.
i am only level 30 i bought guardians pack and in 30 levels i made 550.000 AD. almost in 1 million without spendind 1 cent.
you just need to focus om your main goal. if it is have AD there is PLENTY of things you can do to get them. and my friends on 60 say that they make double as i do at level 20 / 30. if i made 550k in 30 levels i dont see the pay to win .
if some 1 says its pay to win it i because he / she made it pay to win, not the developers.
How is aion (NA) P2W and not neverwinter when both game use the "pay or grind for months" method? Your bias is showing
Atleast in aion NCsoft didn't put a cap on how many kinah you can farm a day. Unlike neverwinter
I haven't played the game yet (waiting for the 30th) but having read some of your posts today I have the impression that you're one of the few people in here that has any clue about what he's talking about:). It's good to hear that extreme farming is not needed in order to obtain things that other people pay for with real money anyway
He's right. farming is not needed. I got 15k AD yesterday by doing dailies and events. Maybe took 2 hours out of my day to do it. And you can do it everyday lol.
highly suspect number imo. i find it unlikely you picked up from the npc's and then finished all of the dailies in a single 60 minute session, let alone anything else.
No hes right. The event for skirmishes has ad gain as well as it being a daily. I had a level 9 character do the Blacklake skirmish during the hour long event for ad, and got 6k ad for just that alone. Within that hour. The Blacklake Terror Skirmish takes about 5 to 10 minutes to complete for the first skirmish of the game. Also the tabs next to the mini map are the events. In game if you hit "K" and click the "Home" tab you can see all the upcoming events at the bottom. You have dungeon delve events and pvp events and foundry events that all give ad, xp, gold, glory, etc. Just wait till tomorrow. You will see lol.
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coldfusion1122Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
I smell a troll who has not even played the game yet.
Unless something massive changed since the march closed beta then what i said is true. I made it to 40'ish then i found out about the AD daily refinement cap and closed the game
so, again. What make Aion P2W and not neverwinter?
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psiwuffMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Well, after looking at a few things, I wouldn't call it p2w just yet, but it is definitely pay for massive advantage. Lets list a few things:
- crafting is impossible to keep up with your character level, even if you use the gateway, unless perhaps you buy some profession asset packs and trade the blue workers for the ones you need
- the AD store is ludicrous. with a 24k per day refining cap, it takes 83 consecutive days of maxing the cap (no small feat either) to get ONE of those 2mil items
- you can buy AD for real money, thus you can effectively buy your endgame purples, but at least you can still earn them
Granted for the AD prices, maybe i just need to use the auction house a bit more and sell crafted stuff, maybe that way the AD will flow faster. But right now, self-leveling your crafting is an excersize in futility to be sure. I'm already a good 5 levels behind where I should be, and I'm almost running tasks 24/7 via the gateway.
There will always be Incentives to buy but thats what they are Incentives .Its impossible to make and run a game for absolutely nothing .Every one seems to think if theres a cash shop its P2W cryptic could have easily placed a purchase price on this game tons would have paid for it and tons did look at the founders packs .Everywhere you look you see people complaining about how its not free
to play.No initial cost if you want to play no monthly sub and probably one of the best cash shop models out there right along with GW2 full of incentives for convienence/cosmetic even buying the keys for chests have a chance at a better pay off in NW .You want restrictive play look at sonys eq an eq2 models or DDO or SWTOR with their heres some gear and some stuff you can sell as well.You can even earn the premium currency in NW just by providing your time correct me if im wrong but NW and GW2 are the only ones out there providing that option.Its sad to see so many of my fellow gamers that just want everything handed to them on a silver platter and are quick to say its a pay to win game just because it has a premium currency .NW is P2W though thats PLAY TO WINthose of you who are enjoying the game at this moment know that
When is a game pay to win? For me, it's when you can get an advantage ingame by using real money. It's an advantage to get better items earlier or easier than everyone else.
For exalple:
Player1 dont want to use real money. Instead he farms and get pretty decent items.
Player2 want to use real money. He use real money to get BETTER item than what player1 got.
Now they go PvP.
Advantage? Imo yes
Good thing you cannot get PvP gear with real cash or AD then :P
I just really hope this game doesn't try to implement the cash shopping model they used in Perfect World. They would put things on sale and then have them even cheaper the next week, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over all the people who already threw their money at the game devs.
- you can buy AD for real money, thus you can effectively buy your endgame purples
Oh wow, is this true? I'd been looking forward to this game, but now my enthusiasm just vanished completely and I may not even download it tomorrow. Can you really mastercard your way to endgame gear? If that's the case, I won't waste my time -- this game will go the way of all those other piles of garbage that launch and are immediately forgotten as 98% of players quit after two weeks. Please tell me the game is not just 100% cash grab nonsense. Will developer greed kill another MMORPG? Sigh.
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
No hes right. The event for skirmishes has ad gain as well as it being a daily. I had a level 9 character do the Blacklake skirmish during the hour long event for ad, and got 6k ad for just that alone. Within that hour. The Blacklake Terror Skirmish takes about 5 to 10 minutes to complete for the first skirmish of the game. Also the tabs next to the mini map are the events. In game if you hit "K" and click the "Home" tab you can see all the upcoming events at the bottom. You have dungeon delve events and pvp events and foundry events that all give ad, xp, gold, glory, etc. Just wait till tomorrow. You will see lol.
the first skirmish is fast. later ones are not. that one in the mid 20's is a good 30 minutes
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dixa1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Oh wow, is this true? I'd been looking forward to this game, but now my enthusiasm just vanished completely and I may not even download it tomorrow. Can you really mastercard your way to endgame gear? If that's the case, I won't waste my time -- this game will go the way of all those other piles of garbage that launch and are immediately forgotten as 98% of players quit after two weeks. Please tell me the game is not just 100% cash grab nonsense. Will developer greed kill another MMORPG? Sigh.
it is true. it was true in sto where you could pay real money, buy keys, sell those keys and use the credits to buy lockbox ships from the auction house. that was the cheapest way
here however the auction house also runs on diamonds. i expect the exchange rate to maintain 350:1 or higher for the forseeable future, which would mean 24,000 diamonds will be equal to about 68.5 zen.
for most of this year until just recently when a coupe of dil exploits were discovered with a foundry exploit (so now people have 5 or 6 characters with milions of unrefined dil they just refine every day) the exchange rate in sto wsa 85:1, making 8000 dill worth 94 zen. right now it's about 110:1, or 72 zen per day.
basically at most excpect to make 50-80 zen per day farming the max diamonds on one character. for the employed one character is about all they will do. for the unemployed it will be worth it to do this on multiple characters, staying as low level as possible to use the fastest skirmishes. it seems hit or miss if you get anything from invocating - i've gone the last 11 hours with no diamonds.
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incendi0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You have dungeon delve events and pvp events and foundry events that all give ad, xp, gold, glory, etc. Just wait till tomorrow. You will see lol.
Do you get pvp Glory points only from pvp events, or do you earn them from pvp kills, winning, losing, just participating in pvp, or some other mechanism....?
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thevlakaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
3 currencies is wrong.
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jnaathraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
When you say you can't earn weapons through the cash shop isn't that just some technicality you are slipping past people.
You open keys to get things outa boxes.
Boxes give you trade bars.
Trade bars get you purple weapons.
Thats the same thing as buying it from the shop.
Scout Tragold - "I haven't lived this long by being brave... it's just another word for stupid."
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werealchemistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Omg QQ moar!!!! Don't like it? Then don't play it !!! Quit your *****ing and go play WoW!
now get the **** off our forums!!!n
I mostly agree, I just take exception to comments which say things such as "thats all there is to it." Anytime someone says that it just says to me that they aren't prepared for a serious discussion.
That is all there is to it. P2W is just someone's delusional reasoning to simply ***** because there's a cash shop regardless of the fact it sells absolutely nothing that gives anyone any real advantage. Mounts are p2w, bags are p2w, oh wait, character renames are p2w too! Oh and the stones, hey they are p2w in pvp, oh wait they don't work in pvp soooo as I said, p2w only exists in the minds of those who are mad because cash shop has things they want and don't want to spend money on it to get it.
Comments
Those scenarios are not based upon farming for "leet" stuff. They are about farming for basic items required to play the game on a regular level. The items earned through the zen store are not cosmetic - They are every day items such as the best potions.
Soooo, one NEEDS those scrolls to even get into the endgame dungeons?
what you consider "Basic" I consider a crutch for casuals. . .
Scrolls? I'm talking about potions, not scrolls. There was a much more detailed thread about this issue which I created in the beta forums. Alas, PWE chose to delete those forums because they were littered with valid criticism regarding their business model. The basic point is this - If you put the most powerful healing potion in the game in the cash shop, the players who care about performing on a high level WILL use it.
The faster the player base (and all players who care about their performance) clear the content, the faster the discontent on the forums will grow regarding how easy the content is. In the end, you cannot ignore the most powerful item in the game while balancing content regardless of whether it's in the cash shop or not. Content will eventually be balanced for the game that exists - and the game that exists includes the most powerful healing potion. That potion is ONLY available in the cash shop.
this is because of how cryptic and perfect world handled sto, specifically lock box ships like the jem'hadar heavy escort carrier, jem'hadar attack ships and jem'hadar attack ship pets as well as EVERYTHING in the lobi store.
most of that stuff is or very near to the best in the game, making it very p2w
the reviews for this game will be interesting. it's cryptics first game since joining up with pwe and using their f2p models in both sto and co. i have a feeling that the absurd pricing of some of the items and the choices made with regards to bags, potions, id scrolls and the auction house currency are going to weigh heavy on it come metacritic time.
highly suspect number imo. i find it unlikely you picked up from the npc's and then finished all of the dailies in a single 60 minute session, let alone anything else.
i am only level 30 i bought guardians pack and in 30 levels i made 550.000 AD. almost in 1 million without spendind 1 cent.
you just need to focus om your main goal. if it is have AD there is PLENTY of things you can do to get them. and my friends on 60 say that they make double as i do at level 20 / 30. if i made 550k in 30 levels i dont see the pay to win .
if some 1 says its pay to win it i because he / she made it pay to win, not the developers.
How is aion (NA) P2W and not neverwinter when both game use the "pay or grind for months" method? Your bias is showing
Atleast in aion NCsoft didn't put a cap on how many kinah you can farm a day. Unlike neverwinter
Unless something massive changed since the march closed beta then what i said is true. I made it to 40'ish then i found out about the AD daily refinement cap and closed the game
so, again. What make Aion P2W and not neverwinter?
- crafting is impossible to keep up with your character level, even if you use the gateway, unless perhaps you buy some profession asset packs and trade the blue workers for the ones you need
- the AD store is ludicrous. with a 24k per day refining cap, it takes 83 consecutive days of maxing the cap (no small feat either) to get ONE of those 2mil items
- you can buy AD for real money, thus you can effectively buy your endgame purples, but at least you can still earn them
Granted for the AD prices, maybe i just need to use the auction house a bit more and sell crafted stuff, maybe that way the AD will flow faster. But right now, self-leveling your crafting is an excersize in futility to be sure. I'm already a good 5 levels behind where I should be, and I'm almost running tasks 24/7 via the gateway.
to play.No initial cost if you want to play no monthly sub and probably one of the best cash shop models out there right along with GW2 full of incentives for convienence/cosmetic even buying the keys for chests have a chance at a better pay off in NW .You want restrictive play look at sonys eq an eq2 models or DDO or SWTOR with their heres some gear and some stuff you can sell as well.You can even earn the premium currency in NW just by providing your time correct me if im wrong but NW and GW2 are the only ones out there providing that option.Its sad to see so many of my fellow gamers that just want everything handed to them on a silver platter and are quick to say its a pay to win game just because it has a premium currency .NW is P2W though thats PLAY TO WINthose of you who are enjoying the game at this moment know that
Good thing you cannot get PvP gear with real cash or AD then :P
Nah you can convert your hard earned AD to zen then buy your keys without ever dropping a dime of your own cash.
Oh wow, is this true? I'd been looking forward to this game, but now my enthusiasm just vanished completely and I may not even download it tomorrow. Can you really mastercard your way to endgame gear? If that's the case, I won't waste my time -- this game will go the way of all those other piles of garbage that launch and are immediately forgotten as 98% of players quit after two weeks. Please tell me the game is not just 100% cash grab nonsense. Will developer greed kill another MMORPG? Sigh.
the first skirmish is fast. later ones are not. that one in the mid 20's is a good 30 minutes
it is true. it was true in sto where you could pay real money, buy keys, sell those keys and use the credits to buy lockbox ships from the auction house. that was the cheapest way
here however the auction house also runs on diamonds. i expect the exchange rate to maintain 350:1 or higher for the forseeable future, which would mean 24,000 diamonds will be equal to about 68.5 zen.
for most of this year until just recently when a coupe of dil exploits were discovered with a foundry exploit (so now people have 5 or 6 characters with milions of unrefined dil they just refine every day) the exchange rate in sto wsa 85:1, making 8000 dill worth 94 zen. right now it's about 110:1, or 72 zen per day.
basically at most excpect to make 50-80 zen per day farming the max diamonds on one character. for the employed one character is about all they will do. for the unemployed it will be worth it to do this on multiple characters, staying as low level as possible to use the fastest skirmishes. it seems hit or miss if you get anything from invocating - i've gone the last 11 hours with no diamonds.
You open keys to get things outa boxes.
Boxes give you trade bars.
Trade bars get you purple weapons.
Thats the same thing as buying it from the shop.
now get the **** off our forums!!!n
And if that's not the same thing then selling zen for in-game currency to buy everything in that way sure is.
Woah man somebody obviously hurt you on a deep and personal level. It's gunna be alright, let's just calm it down.
That is all there is to it. P2W is just someone's delusional reasoning to simply ***** because there's a cash shop regardless of the fact it sells absolutely nothing that gives anyone any real advantage. Mounts are p2w, bags are p2w, oh wait, character renames are p2w too! Oh and the stones, hey they are p2w in pvp, oh wait they don't work in pvp soooo as I said, p2w only exists in the minds of those who are mad because cash shop has things they want and don't want to spend money on it to get it.
lol now this is just being a brat.
Small exp boosts aren't p2w in any way. >.>
Pay 2 Win = Any major character upgrade available for real life currency that is not at least moderately easy to obtain otherwise.