Actually, its quite the opposite.
By paying to bypass leveling, you rob yourself of not only content enjoyment, but actual combat experience. Meaning you have a level 20 player, running a level 60 character. Who can look forward to boring missions with no reward.
Sounds like pay to lose to me.
There is really no skill involved in this game as it is. People just run around like chickens with their heads cut off agroing everything and then run around in circles. It wouldnt make a difference if the guy played to 60 or used a profession to 60. Everyone else will still play just like he does minus they should know better but its a moot point.
There is really no skill involved in this game as it is. People just run around like chickens with their heads cut off agroing everything and then run around in circles. It wouldnt make a difference if the guy played to 60 or used a profession to 60. Everyone else will still play just like he does minus they should know better but its a moot point.
No real skill? I beg to differ. You sound like a player who leans on his cleric bot to keep him going. Try soloing. Try not using pots. Try playing a melee class like the GF or GWF. Or rather, I should just say the GWF, since they are broken beyond repair, and not in the good way like our friend the TR. It's easy to say it doesn't take any skill as a CW or DC, or with a cleric companion (hireling or otherwise) but get waist deep into the **** where you're actually taking damage and it changes things.
That's what happens when you can pay for character experience via instant leadership crafting. Leadership awards pure exp, by paying AD you can make it instant, as long as you keep paying AD you can gain an infinite amount of exp.
And still it isn't P2W by hte strictest definition of the word. The only ones complaining are the ones to poor to pay for all that Zen to do it themselves.
Kinda irks me people talk about this as an exploit when GW2 lets you do the same thing, can power level a character from 2-80 in a few hours via crafting and buying the mats on the trading post.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
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oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Anyone else remember way back on page 1 when the thread was about the GWF?
Lol internet
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just chiming in - I out DPS and AOEDPS GWF's easily on my cleric without sacrificing any utility. Plus I have fairly decent survivability. This isn't a nerf cleric post - it's a holy **** fix GWF's post.
Just give them a moderate DPS buff and you're done - real simple.
Just chiming in - I out DPS and AOEDPS GWF's easily on my cleric without sacrificing any utility. Plus I have fairly decent survivability. This isn't a nerf cleric post - it's a holy **** fix GWF's post.
Just give them a moderate DPS buff and you're done - real simple.
Really simple. Hope devs also see and understand how simple this is. SIMPLE.
Really simple. Hope devs also see and understand how simple this is. SIMPLE.
This is exactly the problem. In a recent interview the Dev team actually said they think GWF is STILL TOO STRONG. Are they even playing the same game? Do they play version 2.0 where GWF is armed with something other than a pool noodle.
And not the good, sturdy pool noodles from Brookstone. We're talking Walmart brand pool noodles. The ones that break down into blue dust if you leave them in the sun for 20 minutes.
It's really simple, in D&D 4th edition, the great weapon fighter is a Defender... not a striker. It's not a DPS class in any fashion... if you wanted a pure DPS class you'd roll up the Trickster Rogue - the only Striker in the game presently. :P Fighters aren't strikers at all anyways, that's the Barbarians job. Every single Fighter is a Defender in 4.0 ruleset.
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nocturnalgMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It's really simple, in D&D 4th edition, the great weapon fighter is a Defender... not a striker. It's not a DPS class in any fashion... if you wanted a pure DPS class you'd roll up the Trickster Rogue - the only Striker in the game presently. :P Fighters aren't strikers at all anyways, that's the Barbarians job. Every single Fighter is a Defender in 4.0 ruleset.
It's really simple, in D&D 4th edition, the great weapon fighter is a Defender... not a striker. It's not a DPS class in any fashion... if you wanted a pure DPS class you'd roll up the Trickster Rogue - the only Striker in the game presently. :P Fighters aren't strikers at all anyways, that's the Barbarians job. Every single Fighter is a Defender in 4.0 ruleset.
If the GWF could actually tank I would be OK with this. But he can't. He can't do anything. His damage is poor, his survivability is poor, his aggro generation is poor, his CC is poor, self healing is poor.
The GWF may be a Defender in the 4e ruleset...but he is NOT a defender in Neverwinter. He is nothing.
I can hear the collective groan of disappointment in every group I get into a queue with... "Oh man, a GWF...our group is gimped, we're going to lose"
This does not happen with any other class.
If GWF is a defender give him abilities on par with Guardian Fighter, if he's a Striker give him DPS close to TR, if he is supposed to be CC add management give him CC similar to Control Wizard.
I think what the devs wanted to do was let the GWF players choose between Striker or Defender by choosing which powers they level up...but they failed miserably. All the GWF players can actually do is choose between which skills will make them slightly less unplayable.
Then that's an issue with threat, not an issue with the class being a Defender. I'm not saying it isn't flawed I'm simply saying that in the rule set for that build it is a Defender and the fighter is a Defender. The thread argues about not being able to pull threat because they need defensive stats... but defensive stats aren't as needed since GWF's have the Determination mechanic which stops CC and lowers damage taken by up to 50%.. and determination is built up by both taking and dealing damage. Pair this with all the of natural AoE and CC that Defenders have at their fingertips they can control a fight pretty well. There's no reason to stack up defensive stats to tank... they wear scale armor, they have a mechanic built to stop CC/Damage... and the Swordmaster prestige only improves on that.
Then that's an issue with threat, not an issue with the class being a Defender. I'm not saying it isn't flawed I'm simply saying that in the rule set for that build it is a Defender and the fighter is a Defender. The thread argues about not being able to pull threat because they need defensive stats... but defensive stats aren't as needed since GWF's have the Determination mechanic which stops CC and lowers damage taken by up to 50%.. and determination is built up by both taking and dealing damage. Pair this with all the of natural AoE and CC that Defenders have at their fingertips they can control a fight pretty well. There's no reason to stack up defensive stats to tank... they wear scale armor, they have a mechanic built to stop CC/Damage... and the Swordmaster prestige only improves on that.
Unclear how much you've played a GWF, but it doesn't play like a tank, a dps or a control - or really anywhere in between for that matter. It's sitting in an ambiguous space right now and Dev's need to define it quickly given open launch in a couple days.
Challenge they face is they have to meet MMO standards (2h = big dmg) and D&D standards (GWF = defender) - where they've failed is that they haven't placed it in either definition, nor one of it's own.
The link argues about not being able to crit when the sentinel tree has plenty to improve on threat gain and crit+ to abilities, along with the upper feat tree which gives another 3%... when you're in Determination mode you attack faster as well... so if you're using Sure Strike with those feats in place and Determination you're generating threat very quickly single target... Daring Shout and Come and Get it further the theme of control by pulling targets to you and weakening them... Spinning Strike and Slam for your daily powers for either more damage or more control.... almost every GWF attack has some form of control whether it's knockdown, stun, snare, or pull in. If this is used properly then mobs aren't really going to be scattering about all over the place. Defenders are designed to keep stuff away from other people... be that taunts, control, or otherwise. The sentinel tree is loaded down with threat gains and increases to deflection/AC. Even my guardian fighter has issues holding threat but that doesn't matter nearly as much when I have numerous stuns, the aoe taunt, and the natural CC of the control wizard. I'm enjoying my GWF a lot, more than my Guardian Fighter actually. I'm sure the concerns of players will be addressed when it comes to it's role as a defender. I was simply calling out the misconception that people fall for this class thinking it's going to be a dps. :P
I was thinking my GWF was fine, but then I took him in a pvp match and saw how poor his damage output and defensive capabilities were compared to the other classes. Nonetheless I am still having fun with him.
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vlyxnolMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited April 2013
People need to stop with this Great Weapon Fighter is a primary defender garbage. It is not true.
Neverwinter is based on DnD4E but it is NOT DnD4E. There are parallels but they are not exactly the same thing.
Innately they have very little that makes them more survivable than other classes. If you WANT to you have the opportunity to sacrifice DPS by speccing into some defence boosts.
If you do not spec into survivability you are just as squishy as everyone else. For those GWFs who are specced fully damage they can not off tank any better than having a TR do it. They are supposed to provide AoE DPS, they ARE the second melee damage dealing class.
Being AOE specialists they should not be able to single target DPS as high as a TR, however they should have enough AoE DPS to make up for that over all. At the end of dungeons they should stack up reasonably evenly against each other depending on the nature of the dungeon (more mass trash or more single target fighting would shift the balance one way or another)
niblMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Sorry to say but when i looking for PHB I don't see great diffrence in power for 'striker' and 'defender' (strikers get additional 1-3 d6 once per round in specific situation (for rogue it is combat advantage), and have a bit more powerful skills). Keep in mind that rogues also get weaker weapons. On other hand I am quite sure that you can make quite hard to hit rogue.
Why am I saying this? because in NwO we have action combat that is translated from tactical pnp. What worse we have tactical game translated into action MMO with holy trinity. Generally lot of stuff don't translate well (let just see how translated are characteristics or whole powers system).
If you want "stiker", "controler", "defender", "leader" than we should have such 4 classes (it would be boring). That also mean people enter typical holy trinity mindset of striker being DPS, defender being TANK and leader being HEALER.
If GWF is 'tank' then Cryptic didn't do homework and made class with huge sword (still waiting on huge axes, hammers, and maybe someday scythes) that do puny damage -> that concept isn't fun (even in Tera while Berserkers do low dps, but at least you see nice numbers - sometimes it is enough to make people happy). And GWF lack in threat controlling.
If GWF is 'striker' then especially on early levels they seriously lack damage.
If GWF is 'hybrid' then it seriously lack in both categories. (Generally hybrids are solo friendly -> GWF is terrible at solo-ing)
I heard that during BW3 GWF had serious problems with scaling -> while his low levels being trash then he easily out-scaled in late game. In BW4 they nerfed him on whole line - that he don't out-scale other classes as much. But they also did some terrible things to his early game -> moving his charge to lv 40 (only reliable tool to mitigate dmg on early levels), and for first attacking skill getting single target (that wasn't our problem, we had problem with second skill that was bad before determination bar), and nerfing at-will damage to multi target. That mean Cryptic did this class even worse for leveling up.
For some peoples this is not problem they are here for "endgame content", aka raiding (FLASH NEWS no raids in this game), and PvP. I see it as big problem as I love whole feel of progress (and I don't like PvP), and if progress is painful chore then GAME isn't fun for me.
I was planing on making GWF. but now I am not sure. I wanted to make CW, but I would wait for eladrin (probably only me ehh...). GF, and Cleric are meh to me, and TR while extremely fun to play somehow i don't fell like playing (especially since everyone want to play TR because FLASH NEWS it is fun to play).
You are right. You are great and the rest of us are terrible. That chart means only that the rest of your group did less. They could have been baking cookies for all we know.
Well, at least you are honest with yourself, good for you!
Well.. can't really see what he says that ain't true, What you show is a screenshot of "most dmg dealt" but how should the rest of us know wtf your party did in the dungeon, to say that GWF are balanced and not "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" is simply <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but if you want to try to "prove" that its fine, then good luck since the rest of us are playing the same class and most of us has another opinion.
I was thinking my GWF was fine, but then I took him in a pvp match and saw how poor his damage output and defensive capabilities were compared to the other classes. Nonetheless I am still having fun with him.
In the 30-39 bracket I bumped into a really good GWF who did fairly well. Hard to shake him off, hard to cc, and he stuck to my CW like glue. Not seeing many GWFs in PvP, though, so I can't compare and my onw GWF is only in the high teen levels.
Well.. can't really see what he says that ain't true, What you show is a screenshot of "most dmg dealt" but how should the rest of us know wtf your party did in the dungeon, to say that GWF are balanced and not "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" is simply <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but if you want to try to "prove" that its fine, then good luck since the rest of us are playing the same class and most of us has another opinion.
I didn't want to prove anything at all, it's just a screenshot, take it for what it is. Also, opinions are like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, everybody has one and they all stink.
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essaidisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
I didn't want to prove anything at all, it's just a screenshot, take it for what it is. Also, opinions are like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, everybody has one and they all stink.
I'm level 21 right now on my GWF and in dungeons I'm getting trumped in damage most of the time. However I do shine when there are extremely large packs of enemies around. That's when I'm capable of bumping up my damage to where it looks like I'm actually capable of the same sustained/burst dps as most of the other classes right now. Single target and bosses? I -think- I do pretty well. I was in a group with multiple level 26s doing the Siege the Castle/Keep Skirmish and I came out on top in kills/damage by 3 kills and around 20-30k damage. Though when I'm soloing I do think we need a real way to mitigate damage... Stuff just sits there and hits me in the face, I move out of the tell abilities but if they just sit on me and hit me there's not much I can do. No matter how mobile I try to be, I'm going to get hit. Where as on my defender fighter it's a matter of right clicking, wait, hit, right click, wait, hit. It also felt like my damage on my guardian was doing just about as much if not more as my GWF in the early levels.
I'm level 21 right now on my GWF and in dungeons I'm getting trumped in damage most of the time. However I do shine when there are extremely large packs of enemies around. That's when I'm capable of bumping up my damage to where it looks like I'm actually capable of the same sustained/burst dps as most of the other classes right now. Single target and bosses? I -think- I do pretty well. I was in a group with multiple level 26s doing the Siege the Castle/Keep Skirmish and I came out on top in kills/damage by 3 kills and around 20-30k damage. Though when I'm soloing I do think we need a real way to mitigate damage... Stuff just sits there and hits me in the face, I move out of the tell abilities but if they just sit on me and hit me there's not much I can do. No matter how mobile I try to be, I'm going to get hit. Where as on my defender fighter it's a matter of right clicking, wait, hit, right click, wait, hit. It also felt like my damage on my guardian was doing just about as much if not more as my GWF in the early levels.
Situations where you're 'shining' right now, CW's and Devoted Clerics are actually out dpsing you. Really not much going for GWF right now.
They need to either beef up their tanking/agro capabilities or DPS. GWF's would actually make a great addition to groups given clerics get swamped by adds - if GWF's could hold the adds + dps them down while rest of the team is on the boss, GWF's would be viable.
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rogosh69Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 23Arc User
edited April 2013
Trying to figure out why a trickster rogue can hit for 2100 and my max hit with a 2 hander is 1100, lol wtf.
Situations where you're 'shining' right now, CW's and Devoted Clerics are actually out dpsing you. Really not much going for GWF right now.
They need to either beef up their tanking/agro capabilities or DPS. GWF's would actually make a great addition to groups given clerics get swamped by adds - if GWF's could hold the adds + dps them down while rest of the team is on the boss, GWF's would be viable.
I tried this last night in a level 35 dungeon with a green dragon at the end. the cleric got wrecked every time because I was giving eveyrthing i had to try to pull off him and he just kept dieing.
"That's when I'm capable of bumping up my damage to where it looks like I'm actually capable of the same sustained/burst dps as most of the other classes right now."
AoE damage doesn't really count for a lot in the long run, because that it's artificial to some degree when it comes to the true amount of dps that you can dish out. When it comes to single, tougher mobs? Yeah... Not so much. It's a disgusting transition going from a thief to a gwf. I couldn't believe the damage discrepancy.
The worst part of this whole thing is that as a gwf I like to think I'm capable of being a good group member, I move out of damaging abilities so the clerics won't need to waste a gcd on me, I do everything I can do dish out as much damage as possible but I still end up falling short and it kind of feels like I'm a waste of space in a lot of the dungeons I do. Which is a really crappy feeling, when you think you're playing well and in the end your damage just isn't up to the par to the guy whose died 2-3 three times just because his burst damage out does your entire Q, E, and R lineup.
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mewbreyMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 517Bounty Hunter
I tried this last night in a level 35 dungeon with a green dragon at the end. the cleric got wrecked every time because I was giving eveyrthing i had to try to pull off him and he just kept dieing.
As a cleric using 40% threat reduction I can say this happens often... from 30+ I am a constant agro magnet... I've started using gear with as much defense as possible now rather than healing stats just so I can tank all the adds while the guardian fighter tanks a boss.... Great weapon fighters don't seam to have a chance at pulling threat from me... I wish they did!
Neverwinter is based on DnD4E but it is NOT DnD4E. There are parallels but they are not exactly the same thing.
This line should be stickied and repeated at the top of every single discussion thread on this forum. You people need to go to a local hobby store, pick up a DnD 4e book, and thumb through it. Outside of the naming references of class, power type, and world this game is nothing like DnD 4.0. If any of you have actually played 4.0 and are still making comparisons between the two, you're ignorance knows no bounds.
Now bring on the overused "Then go play DnD" statement made by ignorant masses who consistantly compare the two. The whole point is to get you all to STOP making comparisons to a game that it isn't. If you're going to tell me that I should play DnD for DnD, then you should stop trying to compare this game to DnD. The argument "Go play DnD" just contradicts itself if you're trying to draw reasons for your own opinions off of DnD.
The point of making a game based on DnD is so that you can follow a particular working ruleset as an outline. That's not what PW has done here. They decided to just make an almost entirely different game with naming references to another. Why they've made more work for themselves we'll never know.
Comments
No real skill? I beg to differ. You sound like a player who leans on his cleric bot to keep him going. Try soloing. Try not using pots. Try playing a melee class like the GF or GWF. Or rather, I should just say the GWF, since they are broken beyond repair, and not in the good way like our friend the TR. It's easy to say it doesn't take any skill as a CW or DC, or with a cleric companion (hireling or otherwise) but get waist deep into the **** where you're actually taking damage and it changes things.
And still it isn't P2W by hte strictest definition of the word. The only ones complaining are the ones to poor to pay for all that Zen to do it themselves.
Kinda irks me people talk about this as an exploit when GW2 lets you do the same thing, can power level a character from 2-80 in a few hours via crafting and buying the mats on the trading post.
Character is what a man is in the dark
Lol internet
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just give them a moderate DPS buff and you're done - real simple.
Really simple. Hope devs also see and understand how simple this is. SIMPLE.
This is exactly the problem. In a recent interview the Dev team actually said they think GWF is STILL TOO STRONG. Are they even playing the same game? Do they play version 2.0 where GWF is armed with something other than a pool noodle.
And not the good, sturdy pool noodles from Brookstone. We're talking Walmart brand pool noodles. The ones that break down into blue dust if you leave them in the sun for 20 minutes.
And the class has massive problems defending. Even when you spend every feat toward survibility and threat gain you can't hold aggro for ****. DPS GWF is in a much better place than Defender GWF, especially late game.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?136121-GWF-Threat-Issues-Sentinel-Paragon-Feats
Lemonade Stand
If the GWF could actually tank I would be OK with this. But he can't. He can't do anything. His damage is poor, his survivability is poor, his aggro generation is poor, his CC is poor, self healing is poor.
The GWF may be a Defender in the 4e ruleset...but he is NOT a defender in Neverwinter. He is nothing.
I can hear the collective groan of disappointment in every group I get into a queue with... "Oh man, a GWF...our group is gimped, we're going to lose"
This does not happen with any other class.
If GWF is a defender give him abilities on par with Guardian Fighter, if he's a Striker give him DPS close to TR, if he is supposed to be CC add management give him CC similar to Control Wizard.
I think what the devs wanted to do was let the GWF players choose between Striker or Defender by choosing which powers they level up...but they failed miserably. All the GWF players can actually do is choose between which skills will make them slightly less unplayable.
Unclear how much you've played a GWF, but it doesn't play like a tank, a dps or a control - or really anywhere in between for that matter. It's sitting in an ambiguous space right now and Dev's need to define it quickly given open launch in a couple days.
Challenge they face is they have to meet MMO standards (2h = big dmg) and D&D standards (GWF = defender) - where they've failed is that they haven't placed it in either definition, nor one of it's own.
Neverwinter is based on DnD4E but it is NOT DnD4E. There are parallels but they are not exactly the same thing.
PW themselves have declared the GWF as a Damage Dealer / Secondary Defender not a Defender / Secondary Damage Dealer. (http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=799381)
Innately they have very little that makes them more survivable than other classes. If you WANT to you have the opportunity to sacrifice DPS by speccing into some defence boosts.
If you do not spec into survivability you are just as squishy as everyone else. For those GWFs who are specced fully damage they can not off tank any better than having a TR do it. They are supposed to provide AoE DPS, they ARE the second melee damage dealing class.
Being AOE specialists they should not be able to single target DPS as high as a TR, however they should have enough AoE DPS to make up for that over all. At the end of dungeons they should stack up reasonably evenly against each other depending on the nature of the dungeon (more mass trash or more single target fighting would shift the balance one way or another)
Yup, don't bother.
Why am I saying this? because in NwO we have action combat that is translated from tactical pnp. What worse we have tactical game translated into action MMO with holy trinity. Generally lot of stuff don't translate well (let just see how translated are characteristics or whole powers system).
If you want "stiker", "controler", "defender", "leader" than we should have such 4 classes (it would be boring). That also mean people enter typical holy trinity mindset of striker being DPS, defender being TANK and leader being HEALER.
If GWF is 'tank' then Cryptic didn't do homework and made class with huge sword (still waiting on huge axes, hammers, and maybe someday scythes) that do puny damage -> that concept isn't fun (even in Tera while Berserkers do low dps, but at least you see nice numbers - sometimes it is enough to make people happy). And GWF lack in threat controlling.
If GWF is 'striker' then especially on early levels they seriously lack damage.
If GWF is 'hybrid' then it seriously lack in both categories. (Generally hybrids are solo friendly -> GWF is terrible at solo-ing)
I heard that during BW3 GWF had serious problems with scaling -> while his low levels being trash then he easily out-scaled in late game. In BW4 they nerfed him on whole line - that he don't out-scale other classes as much. But they also did some terrible things to his early game -> moving his charge to lv 40 (only reliable tool to mitigate dmg on early levels), and for first attacking skill getting single target (that wasn't our problem, we had problem with second skill that was bad before determination bar), and nerfing at-will damage to multi target. That mean Cryptic did this class even worse for leveling up.
For some peoples this is not problem they are here for "endgame content", aka raiding (FLASH NEWS no raids in this game), and PvP. I see it as big problem as I love whole feel of progress (and I don't like PvP), and if progress is painful chore then GAME isn't fun for me.
I was planing on making GWF. but now I am not sure. I wanted to make CW, but I would wait for eladrin (probably only me ehh...). GF, and Cleric are meh to me, and TR while extremely fun to play somehow i don't fell like playing (especially since everyone want to play TR because FLASH NEWS it is fun to play).
brought you by terrible grammar (inc)
You are right. You are great and the rest of us are terrible. That chart means only that the rest of your group did less. They could have been baking cookies for all we know.
Well, at least you are honest with yourself, good for you!
Well.. can't really see what he says that ain't true, What you show is a screenshot of "most dmg dealt" but how should the rest of us know wtf your party did in the dungeon, to say that GWF are balanced and not "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" is simply <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, but if you want to try to "prove" that its fine, then good luck since the rest of us are playing the same class and most of us has another opinion.
In the 30-39 bracket I bumped into a really good GWF who did fairly well. Hard to shake him off, hard to cc, and he stuck to my CW like glue. Not seeing many GWFs in PvP, though, so I can't compare and my onw GWF is only in the high teen levels.
I didn't want to prove anything at all, it's just a screenshot, take it for what it is. Also, opinions are like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, everybody has one and they all stink.
lol has to agree with the butth.... thingy xD
Situations where you're 'shining' right now, CW's and Devoted Clerics are actually out dpsing you. Really not much going for GWF right now.
They need to either beef up their tanking/agro capabilities or DPS. GWF's would actually make a great addition to groups given clerics get swamped by adds - if GWF's could hold the adds + dps them down while rest of the team is on the boss, GWF's would be viable.
I tried this last night in a level 35 dungeon with a green dragon at the end. the cleric got wrecked every time because I was giving eveyrthing i had to try to pull off him and he just kept dieing.
"That's when I'm capable of bumping up my damage to where it looks like I'm actually capable of the same sustained/burst dps as most of the other classes right now."
AoE damage doesn't really count for a lot in the long run, because that it's artificial to some degree when it comes to the true amount of dps that you can dish out. When it comes to single, tougher mobs? Yeah... Not so much. It's a disgusting transition going from a thief to a gwf. I couldn't believe the damage discrepancy.
The worst part of this whole thing is that as a gwf I like to think I'm capable of being a good group member, I move out of damaging abilities so the clerics won't need to waste a gcd on me, I do everything I can do dish out as much damage as possible but I still end up falling short and it kind of feels like I'm a waste of space in a lot of the dungeons I do. Which is a really crappy feeling, when you think you're playing well and in the end your damage just isn't up to the par to the guy whose died 2-3 three times just because his burst damage out does your entire Q, E, and R lineup.
As a cleric using 40% threat reduction I can say this happens often... from 30+ I am a constant agro magnet... I've started using gear with as much defense as possible now rather than healing stats just so I can tank all the adds while the guardian fighter tanks a boss.... Great weapon fighters don't seam to have a chance at pulling threat from me... I wish they did!
This line should be stickied and repeated at the top of every single discussion thread on this forum. You people need to go to a local hobby store, pick up a DnD 4e book, and thumb through it. Outside of the naming references of class, power type, and world this game is nothing like DnD 4.0. If any of you have actually played 4.0 and are still making comparisons between the two, you're ignorance knows no bounds.
Now bring on the overused "Then go play DnD" statement made by ignorant masses who consistantly compare the two. The whole point is to get you all to STOP making comparisons to a game that it isn't. If you're going to tell me that I should play DnD for DnD, then you should stop trying to compare this game to DnD. The argument "Go play DnD" just contradicts itself if you're trying to draw reasons for your own opinions off of DnD.
The point of making a game based on DnD is so that you can follow a particular working ruleset as an outline. That's not what PW has done here. They decided to just make an almost entirely different game with naming references to another. Why they've made more work for themselves we'll never know.