It's not that simple, I'm afraid. This kind of thing is regulated by US law, and you can't just ignore that because you don't like it. As long as Cryptic's main player base is found in the US, they will have to live with these compromises.
I wished I could have found the post from the old beta foundry board. Remember the one that talked about what we are encouraged to create, how Original Intellectual Property was defined as content that may draw on past lore or cannon but not include it. That your quests, could in fact contain old lore or cannon, but if it did, it could NEVER be considered to be a featured quest. That should you wish your content to be considered for a Featured quest, it must contain O.I.P. Sadly it is gone. Perhaps one of the Mods or Dev'
s can re-post that information and make it sticky. It was a great help in getting my first quest featured in the 4th beta weekend.
________________________________________
IGN: DrDoom CLS: Heretic SVR: Atlantis IND ID:1000165G030200060007250S15fb1f
ALL CONTENT REFLECTS ON CRYPTIC, it is THEY who, despite their disclaimer for not being responsible for the content created on the forums, they most certainly are for content created in the foundry as it is they who provided the tools and content we use. They and their reputation are most definitely effected. AND.. as all content they are serving, and yes, they ARE serving it as all content resides on their servers and being accessed through their client, they WILL be responsible.
And you can pick apart the ESRB site to find quotes to suit your needs, what you will fail to do is prove the game does not some how have to follow the rules. They do. ALL GAMES DO. Any game that is distributed, freely or otherwise. And Neverwinter is absolutely FREELY DISTRIBUTED via DOWNLOAD. And as such MUST comply with ALL the rules, not pick and choose.
In any rate, this is becoming a silly discussion, it's never going to happen for the reasons, and perhaps more, that have been stated. So this will be my last post here, it's pointless.
________________________________________
IGN: DrDoom CLS: Heretic SVR: Atlantis IND ID:1000165G030200060007250S15fb1f
which is irrelevant. The ESRB doesn't care. It is still UGC. The link could not have made this more clear.
For example: Minecraft is ENTIRELY UGC, but if you hop on a server and someone made square boobies, or uses a nude avatar (uploaded to the the Minecraft servers btw), the ESBR doesn't care. Game is still rated E.
They and their reputation are most definitely effected.
And of course they can be effected by what is on the foundry as far as their reputation goes. That was MY POINT. It is the reason they post rules against this sort of thing, for PR, to say they are against it.
And you can pick apart the ESRB site to find quotes to suit your needs, what you will fail to do is prove the game does not some how have to follow the rules. They do. ALL GAMES DO. Any game that is distributed, freely or otherwise. And Neverwinter is absolutely FREELY DISTRIBUTED via DOWNLOAD. And as such MUST comply with ALL the rules, not pick and choose.
And you are making up rules rather then using sourcing of any kind. All the while discounting what the ESRB lists on their own site on how UGC works and effects their rating process (it doesn't).
I'm wasting my time here until you decide to source any example or ruling on UGC effecting a game's rating.
(b) User Content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law,
(
Lol, I'm pretty sure ANY kind of content in any video game would be in violation of this.
0
volcxxxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Just make it with common sense and there will be no problems. When i maked naked slave girls and some sort of sexual content, i had in mind that this quest WILL be played by 12-yo kids.
So, just use brain and make it soft. Sure you can make with given tools make HAMSTER content, but just dont, kids are playing this game.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
which is irrelevant. The ESRB doesn't care. It is still UGC. The link could not have made this more clear.
And what link would that be? You're deliberately ignoring the important part of what we're saying and instead building a sorta-strawman argument to debate against. Don't. There's is an enormous difference between UGC stored and distributed by Cryptic's servers and UGC stored and distibuted by player servers.
I'm honestly not sure why you're debating this in the first place. It's not like you can win this argument, considering Cryptic's / PerfectWorld's lawyers have decided on this a long time ago. You're treading water, kicking a dead horse, swimming upstream. It's pointless.
For example: Minecraft is ENTIRELY UGC, but if you hop on a server and someone made square boobies, or uses a nude avatar (uploaded to the the Minecraft servers btw), the ESBR doesn't care. Game is still rated E.
Those servers are run by players.
0
mokomiiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah cryptic nixed the all Drow erp guild on owlbear pretty quick, there was much crying and teeth gnashing by it's members in Zone chat after that. :rolleyes:
Obscenity is not something that responsible parents would want their kids to have access to unsupervised. Hence the rules of cryptic reflect that. It is that simple. It has nothing to do with what you may feel is right or wrong.
I would say that the profanity filter that is present in the foundry is the same as the one for all chat so zone chat will be just as sanitary as most foundry content. Granted there are always ways around the profanity filters.
Profanity filter is actually not there to govern obscenity. It is used to avoid topics that will cause flaming wars and trolling, and other such controversial subjects so that discussions are kept on-topic and in context of game.
Whats the official stance towards addult content is quest conversations...
Sooner or later people will add discussions to their campaign not meant for the ears of younger people, with Erotic proposals and such, or prommising more then just a kiss to the gallant knight..
come on we don't need HAMSTER in our MMO there's already plenty of other places where people go to get that stuff...
Neverwinter isn't D&D, it is a MMO based on a game that uses D&D terms but isn't really D&D either. NW is fun (for that matter so is 4E), but it isn't D&D, and once you wrap your expectations around that you will be able to enjoy the game for what it offers and not worry about what it does not.
0
eljacko56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I don't see any reason why an Adult Content Flag wouldn't solve everyone's problems. It seems like Cryptic has already come to their decision, which is a shame, I think. I know there's no need for adult content in this game, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be possible, so long as it's kept away from the kiddies. I just don't like the idea of Foundry Creators being arbitrarily limited.
I don't see any reason why an Adult Content Flag wouldn't solve everyone's problems.
We've already covered this multiple times in this thread. It won't solve everyone's problems, particularly not Cryptic's. It would be nice if you read through the discussion before resurrecting a thread.
0
eljacko56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We've already covered this multiple times in this thread. It won't solve everyone's problems, particularly not Cryptic's. It would be nice if you read through the discussion before resurrecting a thread.
I read the thread. I understand the conclusion that's been reached, and I disagree with it. There is no good reason that Cryptic should have a problem with adult content if it was hidden behind a filter, ideologically or practically. I've seen some suggest that they would have to change the rating of the game, but that's just plain false. The ESRB rating never takes into account online interactions, which includes UGC.
I read the thread. I understand the conclusion that's been reached, and I disagree with it. There is no good reason that Cryptic should have a problem with adult content if it was hidden behind a filter, ideologically or practically. I've seen some suggest that they would have to change the rating of the game, but that's just plain false. The ESRB rating never takes into account online interactions, which includes UGC.
I told you we've already covered this. You are plain wrong for reasons that are clearly stated earlier in the thread. Your exact solution has even been proposed earlier and struck down.
0
eljacko56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I told you we've already covered this. You are plain wrong for reasons that are clearly stated earlier in the thread. Your exact solution has even been proposed earlier and struck down.
I understand that you've come to that conclusion, but you've based that conclusion on false arguments. You have said earlier in this thread that UGC doesn't count as unrated "online interactions", in defiance of all evidence. It doesn't matter if they're stored on Cryptic's servers or not, or how they're integrated into the game, the ESRB website very cearly states that user-generated content of any kind counts as an unrated online interaction, regardless of how it's presented. Cryptic wouldn't be breaking any rules or risking a higher rating by allowing adult content, flag or no flag. The only reason I agree that a flag is necessary is so that the game can still cater to all audiences.
It's all a moot point of course, because Cryptic is unlikely to change its stance, and doesn't have to provide reasons for the things it does. The only reason I'm still arguing about this is because I can't abide the people trying to justify Cryptic's decision by denying the facts. Cryptic can do whatever it wants with its own game, but it has done something sub-optimal in this case, and that should be acknowledged, not explained away.
That is silly. They should just allow quests to be able to be flagged as adult content, and be hidden from the search engine unless you specifically tick the case that says "Adult content".
Agree but if they do this they need some sort of age verification, and flag system, or they need to rate the game "M".
I understand that you've come to that conclusion, but you've based that conclusion on false arguments. You have said earlier in this thread that UGC doesn't count as unrated "online interactions", in defiance of all evidence. It doesn't matter if they're stored on Cryptic's servers or not, or how they're integrated into the game, the ESRB website very cearly states that user-generated content of any kind counts as an unrated online interaction, regardless of how it's presented. Cryptic wouldn't be breaking any rules or risking a higher rating by allowing adult content, flag or no flag. The only reason I agree that a flag is necessary is so that the game can still cater to all audiences.
It's all a moot point of course, because Cryptic is unlikely to change its stance, and doesn't have to provide reasons for the things it does. The only reason I'm still arguing about this is because I can't abide the people trying to justify Cryptic's decision by denying the facts. Cryptic can do whatever it wants with its own game, but it has done something sub-optimal in this case, and that should be acknowledged, not explained away.
Well stated on all fronts. It is funny that people are disagreeing with the ESRB on how the ESRB rates games even after links were provided. I don't think people really grasp how much work it is to rate all these games as it is. To think that people providing these ratings would stop in and replay the games with UGC randomly every couple weeks to recheck over content the developers didn't even produce is insane.
Step 1: Reverse-engineer the server code.
Step 2: Set up a Private Server.
Step 3: Create tons of naughty content, including nude patches and sex-emotes.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT!!!
Step 6: Get your pants sued back on.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
0
apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
LOL why does this thread always get necro'd :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
That is silly. They should just allow quests to be able to be flagged as adult content, and be hidden from the search engine unless you specifically tick the case that says "Adult content".
yeah I agree restricting content is so lame...I'm a fan of adult content some times
Also: Cragsteep was flatly the BEST FOUNDRY MISSION I have played. Thank you, so very much, for creating it. I can't imagine the amount of effort that went into that mission.
I've subscribed to your Foundry creation. I can't wait to see what else you've got up your sleeve. Seriously. Fantastic stuff.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
0
apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Awesome thank you very much Rachel!
Yeah, took over 500 hours and counting to create and it's still in beta >.< I'm glad people are having fun with it and challenging them self. Mabye in my next one I'll add HAMSTER since folks love it so much... or then again maybe not hehe. ^.^
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Scarlet Blade is rated M, it is a freely distributed MMO, it barely requires you to do an easily bypassed age verification in the form of the standard when were you born.
I am not saying this is what Neverwinter needs, its fine as is, but just wanted to point out the falsity of the ESRB mandating free MMO's to be rated Teen.
Comments
I wished I could have found the post from the old beta foundry board. Remember the one that talked about what we are encouraged to create, how Original Intellectual Property was defined as content that may draw on past lore or cannon but not include it. That your quests, could in fact contain old lore or cannon, but if it did, it could NEVER be considered to be a featured quest. That should you wish your content to be considered for a Featured quest, it must contain O.I.P. Sadly it is gone. Perhaps one of the Mods or Dev'
s can re-post that information and make it sticky. It was a great help in getting my first quest featured in the 4th beta weekend.
IGN: DrDoom
CLS: Heretic
SVR: Atlantis
IND ID:1000165G030200060007250S15fb1f
________________________________________
ALL CONTENT REFLECTS ON CRYPTIC, it is THEY who, despite their disclaimer for not being responsible for the content created on the forums, they most certainly are for content created in the foundry as it is they who provided the tools and content we use. They and their reputation are most definitely effected. AND.. as all content they are serving, and yes, they ARE serving it as all content resides on their servers and being accessed through their client, they WILL be responsible.
And you can pick apart the ESRB site to find quotes to suit your needs, what you will fail to do is prove the game does not some how have to follow the rules. They do. ALL GAMES DO. Any game that is distributed, freely or otherwise. And Neverwinter is absolutely FREELY DISTRIBUTED via DOWNLOAD. And as such MUST comply with ALL the rules, not pick and choose.
In any rate, this is becoming a silly discussion, it's never going to happen for the reasons, and perhaps more, that have been stated. So this will be my last post here, it's pointless.
IGN: DrDoom
CLS: Heretic
SVR: Atlantis
IND ID:1000165G030200060007250S15fb1f
________________________________________
For example: Minecraft is ENTIRELY UGC, but if you hop on a server and someone made square boobies, or uses a nude avatar (uploaded to the the Minecraft servers btw), the ESBR doesn't care. Game is still rated E.
And of course they can be effected by what is on the foundry as far as their reputation goes. That was MY POINT. It is the reason they post rules against this sort of thing, for PR, to say they are against it.
And you are making up rules rather then using sourcing of any kind. All the while discounting what the ESRB lists on their own site on how UGC works and effects their rating process (it doesn't).
I'm wasting my time here until you decide to source any example or ruling on UGC effecting a game's rating.
Lol, I'm pretty sure ANY kind of content in any video game would be in violation of this.
So, just use brain and make it soft. Sure you can make with given tools make HAMSTER content, but just dont, kids are playing this game.
Old "Blood and Sand: Unchained" quest
Played more than 100 000 times!
> TRY IT NOW!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ecy4o6JqLc
And what link would that be? You're deliberately ignoring the important part of what we're saying and instead building a sorta-strawman argument to debate against. Don't. There's is an enormous difference between UGC stored and distributed by Cryptic's servers and UGC stored and distibuted by player servers.
I'm honestly not sure why you're debating this in the first place. It's not like you can win this argument, considering Cryptic's / PerfectWorld's lawyers have decided on this a long time ago. You're treading water, kicking a dead horse, swimming upstream. It's pointless.
Those servers are run by players.
Himmelville - Are you easily frightened?
Click Here
On one side of the mountain, there were bones...
I said the avatars are stored server side. That is why when you play offline you are always Steve.
Yeah cryptic nixed the all Drow erp guild on owlbear pretty quick, there was much crying and teeth gnashing by it's members in Zone chat after that. :rolleyes:
... yeah.
Getting good content to players in the Foundry - challenges and solutions
Handle: @zaphtastic
Profanity filter is actually not there to govern obscenity. It is used to avoid topics that will cause flaming wars and trolling, and other such controversial subjects so that discussions are kept on-topic and in context of game.
come on we don't need HAMSTER in our MMO there's already plenty of other places where people go to get that stuff...
Wow, ancient history, that was a while ago.
Realm of the Demiurge Foundry Works
Neverwinter isn't D&D, it is a MMO based on a game that uses D&D terms but isn't really D&D either. NW is fun (for that matter so is 4E), but it isn't D&D, and once you wrap your expectations around that you will be able to enjoy the game for what it offers and not worry about what it does not.
We've already covered this multiple times in this thread. It won't solve everyone's problems, particularly not Cryptic's. It would be nice if you read through the discussion before resurrecting a thread.
I read the thread. I understand the conclusion that's been reached, and I disagree with it. There is no good reason that Cryptic should have a problem with adult content if it was hidden behind a filter, ideologically or practically. I've seen some suggest that they would have to change the rating of the game, but that's just plain false. The ESRB rating never takes into account online interactions, which includes UGC.
I told you we've already covered this. You are plain wrong for reasons that are clearly stated earlier in the thread. Your exact solution has even been proposed earlier and struck down.
I understand that you've come to that conclusion, but you've based that conclusion on false arguments. You have said earlier in this thread that UGC doesn't count as unrated "online interactions", in defiance of all evidence. It doesn't matter if they're stored on Cryptic's servers or not, or how they're integrated into the game, the ESRB website very cearly states that user-generated content of any kind counts as an unrated online interaction, regardless of how it's presented. Cryptic wouldn't be breaking any rules or risking a higher rating by allowing adult content, flag or no flag. The only reason I agree that a flag is necessary is so that the game can still cater to all audiences.
It's all a moot point of course, because Cryptic is unlikely to change its stance, and doesn't have to provide reasons for the things it does. The only reason I'm still arguing about this is because I can't abide the people trying to justify Cryptic's decision by denying the facts. Cryptic can do whatever it wants with its own game, but it has done something sub-optimal in this case, and that should be acknowledged, not explained away.
Agree but if they do this they need some sort of age verification, and flag system, or they need to rate the game "M".
Step 2: Set up a Private Server.
Step 3: Create tons of naughty content, including nude patches and sex-emotes.
Step 4: ???
Step 5: PROFIT!!!
Step 6: Get your pants sued back on.
-Rachel-
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Also: Cragsteep was flatly the BEST FOUNDRY MISSION I have played. Thank you, so very much, for creating it. I can't imagine the amount of effort that went into that mission.
I've subscribed to your Foundry creation. I can't wait to see what else you've got up your sleeve. Seriously. Fantastic stuff.
-Rachel-
Yeah, took over 500 hours and counting to create and it's still in beta >.< I'm glad people are having fun with it and challenging them self. Mabye in my next one I'll add HAMSTER since folks love it so much... or then again maybe not hehe. ^.^
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Scarlet Blade is rated M, it is a freely distributed MMO, it barely requires you to do an easily bypassed age verification in the form of the standard when were you born.
I am not saying this is what Neverwinter needs, its fine as is, but just wanted to point out the falsity of the ESRB mandating free MMO's to be rated Teen.