Adult content

bachus1234

Whats the official stance towards addult content is quest conversations...

Sooner or later people will add discussions to their campaign not meant for the ears of younger people, with Erotic proposals and such, or prommising more then just a kiss to the gallant knight..

gillrmn

No adult content is the official word.

krubar

I think it shouldnt be allowed especially if you are planning on going into sexual details.

But I am not a moderator or a GM or dev. You will have to get a official answer from one of those.

gbachura

Tricky, tricky.

The best way for them to police this kind of stuff is if they have a few GM's or community managers going around looking at quest reviews that indicate a UGC might have it, or if when they review them they do it. It's going to be complicated I imagine.

I really can't see them saying, "Well, okay, go ahead and put all your dirty words and scenes in. We don't mind."

On the flip side, I can easily see how in a quality story there are scenes that might contain such things, but it all boils down to who you are targeting with your audience. In this case, they're targeting the whole MMO gaming community, including but not limited to D&D enthusiasts who are probably mostly adults by now. So flip-flop, who knows. My guess is they won't be for it. I'll be interested to find out though!

krubar

There is probably something already in play to prevent people from publishing quests that have dirty words or sexual words. I think someone said the other day that their quest got rejected because of a dirty word or something like that.

erideita

That is silly. They should just allow quests to be able to be flagged as adult content, and be hidden from the search engine unless you specifically tick the case that says "Adult content".

gbachura

Ah, that makes sense. Though it could pose a few problems, it's probably the easiest way for those-who-are-in-charge to handle the situation. I actually kind of approve.

I see no reason that people MUST make such content, even if I wouldn't be flustered by it myself.

gillrmn

Adding in, this question has already been asked and cleared by the devs in Moonstar forums. I evencopy pasted his line on a question from someone on public forums back then without specifying it comes from a dev.


Basically, no adult content. Nothing related to obscenity, nudity or profanity.

That is the official stance. And they are going to implement it. Any UGC containing anything related to these three words will be reported for violation of Foundry ToS/RoC (or whatever three letter document it is on PWE website).

tilt42

erideita wrote: »

That is silly. They should just allow quests to be able to be flagged as adult content, and be hidden from the search engine unless you specifically tick the case that says "Adult content".

They can't. There are restrictions put upon them by the ratings. If they allow adult content (btw, thanks for not using the word "mature", which is almost exclusively used to describe immature content, ironically), the game will have its rating adjusted accordingly. Neverwinter is supposed to be a family friendly game, and the nature of Cryptic's license with Wizards of the Coast probably requires that this is reinforced.

krubar

erideita wrote: »

That is silly. They should just allow quests to be able to be flagged as adult content, and be hidden from the search engine unless you specifically tick the case that says "Adult content".

Quests that you are working on and submit to be published will still remain in your foundry even if they are rejected when publishing. You can then go through your quest and fix any problems and resubmit. So they are hidden and cant be played except for the foundry author who can test them before publishing.

There is no Adult Content button.

erideita

They can't. There are restrictions put upon them by the ratings. If they allow adult content (btw, thanks for not using the word "mature", which is almost exclusively used to describe immature content, ironically), the game will have its rating adjusted accordingly. Neverwinter is supposed to be a family friendly game, and the nature of Cryptic's license with Wizards of the Coast probably requires that this is reinforced.

I know and understand that. This is why I said "they should" instead of "they must". It was just a suggestion, a possibility that might not be implemented precisely because Neverwinter is meant to be a game for everyone.

I'm kind of failing to explain myself on this. I absolutely dislike anything "adult" or "mature" myself but I don't see why other people who are okay with it should be denied the possibility. If you say it is about "protecting the children and other sensitive people" I'll just say that a kid who purposely checks the "Adult content" box probably knows where to look for HAMSTER-rated videos on the Net so you aren't hiding anything new from them.

gillrmn

The official statement from which I based my statement.

sominator wrote: »

Welcome to the Neverwinter Foundry Beta!
...

There are only a few small guidelines that we'd like to ask you to take note of as you build your dungeons and worlds. They are pretty self-explanatory, but bear mentioning:

1. ...etc.
2. No profanity or obscene content of any kind. All content will go through a review stage before becoming public, and anything questionable will be removed.
3. ... etc.

tilt42

erideita wrote: »

If you say it is about "protecting the children and other sensitive people" I'll just say that a kid who purposely checks the "Adult content" box probably knows where to look for HAMSTER-rated videos on the Net so you aren't hiding anything new from them.

I absolutely agree with that, but it's sadly irrelevant. Cryptic most likely has no say in this matter. It's a legal issue, not an issue of taste. If you want this to change, you need to look into what you can do to influence American politicians.

chili1179

The foundry will not allow bad words in conversations, they get flagged, even unintentional words that appear to bypass the flag like "I put a mark on your map" or "It hurts, Don't it" will be flagged and you will not be able to publish until it gets fixed.

Although I know the RP crowd and some of the non RPers enjoy more adult oriented content, but this is a game aimed for a wide variety of players, including children and families who play together so I can understand why Cryptic takes this approach.

This will not stop authors from being more creative with their innuendos though, I'm sure.

gbachura

There is certainly a stigma with some types of roleplayers when it comes to games like WoW and others. But I don't think all roleplayers are that way.

Personally I just like to immerse myself in the story and setting. To me, that's roleplay.

Anyways I think this thread has run it's course.

thetruezesban

If they're so against foul language why do their own NPCs say d*mn like 2 or 3 times in the opening set of quests? Is that word filtered out of Foundry content?

They're willing to show defenseless, innocent people being ripped apart by demonic creatures during [SPOLIER]the portal opening at that wizard's house[/SPOLIER] if you explore down the alley ways, and they aren't too shy about the blood either.

I'm not offended by any of these things myself, but it seems that they've already cast their rating to wind, so why come down so hard on the UGC about it?

I'm honestly curious about it. Especially the language.

It seems a simple concept to me. Add a profanity flag to the content. If it has adult material, flag it as such. If the player has the Profanity Filter set in the game settings, filter that content out of the Foundry search for them.

If they're alright hearing other players in Zone chat describe how they're ****ing each others' **** mother's ***es, then they're not going to be shocked at what they find in the adult section of the Foundry.

Honestly, "Experience may change in online play."

- Zesban

celantra

I would say that the profanity filter that is present in the foundry is the same as the one for all chat so zone chat will be just as sanitary as most foundry content. Granted there are always ways around the profanity filters.

inconsiderate

celantra wrote: »

Granted there are always ways around the profanity filters.

You mean like turning it off? Chat is unrated.

celantra

I cant access the game today but I do believe that chat was filtered in beta. I may have just not turned it off as you say. I was otherwise focused during much of that time.

thunderspanker

Prostitution in a quest is perfectly fine, as long as the npc is a consenting adult, and the quest specifically entails that you pay her. lol.

(this probably isnt true, but the taverns have wenches, so it is close enough)

itsneo

An interesting discussion, many fine points as to how or why adult content can be, or should be, and how it could be included, all mute. You see, there is this thing called the ESRB, and it governs the rating of all games, ALL games in north america, as NW is being published and released for sale and or use be it free, purchasable, downloadable or otherwise packed and shipped for retail sale, etc. must obtain a rating. You may thank your governments for this and games of the early 80's ... including, Mortal Combat. (mhm... that was the straw that broke the camels back and made the ESRB a reality).

And the ESRB deems any game to be freely distributed and widely available for download must adhere to the TEEN rating, no higher, meaning NO adult content what so ever aside from perhaps MILD suggestive content. NONE. Cyrptic, Perfect World, both have their hands tied here, so, adult content check boxes, flags, or any other sort of content will NEVER make its way into Neverwinter. Not unless Cryptic and Perfect World are willing to accept a new rating at which time they would need to adhere to new rules, restricting access to the game who can validate their age as being over the age of 17+ (21 in some states). You can read all about on the ESRB website , should you so choose.

Any further discussion could also lead us to also review the Neverwinter Terms of Service, in particular section 11(a). User Content where it outlines clearly what we CAN and CAN NOT DO...

I quote ...

"You agree not to post, upload to, transmit, distribute, store, create or otherwise publish through the Site any of the following:
(a) User Content that is unlawful, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, indecent, lewd, suggestive, harassing, threatening, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, abusive, inflammatory, fraudulent or otherwise objectionable;
(b) User Content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law,
(c) User Content that may infringe any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other intellectual or proprietary right of any party. By posting any User Content, you represent and warrant that you have the lawful right to distribute and reproduce such User Content
(d) User Content that impersonates any person or entity or otherwise misrepresents your affiliation with a person or entity;
(e) Unsolicited promotions, political campaigning, advertising or solicitations;
(f) Private information of any third party, including, without limitation, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, Social Security numbers and credit card numbers;
(g) Viruses, corrupted data or other harmful, disruptive or destructive files; and
(h) User Content that violates the Rules of Conduct or that, in the sole judgment of PWE, is objectionable or which restricts or inhibits any other person from using or enjoying the Interactive Areas or the Site, or which may expose PWE or its users to any harm or liability of any type."

So Adult content.. will not be permitted.. and I dare say ... never.

Please note, that I have no personal preference on the subject matter, as I feel the game can be fantastic without adult, or mature content. I simply wished to offer my thoughts as to why there is no content of mature or adult nature.

mandodo69

itsneo wrote: »

An interesting discussion, many fine points as to how or why adult content can be, or should be, and how it could be included, all mute. You see, there is this thing called the ESRB, and it governs the rating of all games, ALL games in north america, as NW is being published and released for sale and or use be it free, purchasable, downloadable or otherwise packed and shipped for retail sale, etc. must obtain a rating. You may thank your governments for this and games of the early 80's ... including, Mortal Combat. (mhm... that was the straw that broke the camels back and made the ESRB a reality).

And the ESRB deems any game to be freely distributed and widely available for download must adhere to the TEEN rating, no higher, meaning NO adult content what so ever aside from perhaps MILD suggestive content. NONE. Cyrptic, Perfect World, both have their hands tied here, so, adult content check boxes, flags, or any other sort of content will NEVER make its way into Neverwinter. Not unless Cryptic and Perfect World are willing to accept a new rating at which time they would need to adhere to new rules, restricting access to the game who can validate their age as being over the age of 17+ (21 in some states). You can read all about on the ESRB website , should you so choose.

Any further discussion could also lead us to also review the Neverwinter Terms of Service, in particular section 11(a). User Content where it outlines clearly what we CAN and CAN NOT DO...

I quote ...

"You agree not to post, upload to, transmit, distribute, store, create or otherwise publish through the Site any of the following:
(a) User Content that is unlawful, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, indecent, lewd, suggestive, harassing, threatening, invasive of privacy or publicity rights, abusive, inflammatory, fraudulent or otherwise objectionable;
(b) User Content that would constitute, encourage or provide instructions for a criminal offense, violate the rights of any party, or that would otherwise create liability or violate any local, state, national or international law,
(c) User Content that may infringe any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other intellectual or proprietary right of any party. By posting any User Content, you represent and warrant that you have the lawful right to distribute and reproduce such User Content
(d) User Content that impersonates any person or entity or otherwise misrepresents your affiliation with a person or entity;
(e) Unsolicited promotions, political campaigning, advertising or solicitations;
(f) Private information of any third party, including, without limitation, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, Social Security numbers and credit card numbers;
(g) Viruses, corrupted data or other harmful, disruptive or destructive files; and
(h) User Content that violates the Rules of Conduct or that, in the sole judgment of PWE, is objectionable or which restricts or inhibits any other person from using or enjoying the Interactive Areas or the Site, or which may expose PWE or its users to any harm or liability of any type."

So Adult content.. will not be permitted.. and I dare say ... never.

Please note, that I have no personal preference on the subject matter, as I feel the game can be fantastic without adult, or mature content. I simply wished to offer my thoughts as to why there is no content of mature or adult nature.

Couldent have said it better myself!

futrix

The ESRB does not force MMOs to be TEEN rated. Other MMOs have come out with a mature rating.
UGC cannot be rated by the ESRB. The ESRB rates the game's developer created content and includes a disclaimer for all MMOs saying "online interactions not rated by the ESRB." Adult content in the foundry would not effect the game's ESRB rating.

Long story short: the rules against this kind of stuff is more about PR and getting as wide an audience as possible. It is a business decision in hopes of not alienating groups of people. It has nothing to do with legality or the game's rating. I also would be surprised if a rule like this is widely enforced.

tilt42

futrix wrote: »

The ESRB does not force MMOs to be TEEN rated. Other MMOs have come out with a mature rating.
UGC cannot be rated by the ESRB. The ESRB rates the game's developer created content and includes a disclaimer for all MMOs saying "online interactions not rated by the ESRB." Adult content in the foundry would not effect the game's ESRB rating.

I suggest reading the post above you one more time. You missed the most important part, which is that this is a commercial game that is freely distributed. It being an MMO has nothing to do with it.

They could get around it by forcing all players to register a credit card before they can play the game, but that wouldn't be a great idea for a game like this.

bachus1234

itsneo wrote: »

I quote ...
(c) User Content that may infringe any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other intellectual or proprietary right of any party. By posting any User Content, you represent and warrant that you have the lawful right to distribute and reproduce such User Content
.

Actually this worries me more, because this could mean that the recreation of old pnp dnd adventures and naming the so could be prohibbited.

Point taken about addult content, means we need to ballance a thin line when NPCs need to say certain things, metaphors and things like that can help a lot here my best guest would be.. But we should stay far away from explicit sexuall language and actions...

tilt42

bachus1234 wrote: »

Actually this worries me more, because this could mean that the recreation of old pnp dnd adventures and naming the so could be prohibbited.

It could, but it most likely won't. I seem to recall that recreating old modules was even encouraged back in the Neverwinter Nights days. Of course, by recreating other people's quests you always run the risk of being taken down, but that shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

I don't even understand why people want to recreate old quests anyway. What happened to originality?

futrix

tilt42 wrote: »

They could get around it by forcing all players to register a credit card before they can play the game, but that wouldn't be a gread idea for a game like this.

It might not be a great idea, I agree. I'm just speaking against the misconception that they are required to age check their playerbase. A simple checkbox when you create your account is all that is required by them. "You agree that you are 17/18 years of age and blah blah blah." Saying "it wouldn't be a great idea for a game like this" is basically agreeing with me... that this is a financial decision in hopes of grabbing the widest audience possible. Basically the same reason most MMOs don't create their own mature rated content (and then look the other way when the players do it since they aren't accountable for that kind of stuff).

bachus1234

tilt42 wrote: »

It could, but it most likely won't. I seem to recall that recreating old modules was even encouraged back in the Neverwinter Nights days. Of course, by recreating other people's quests you always run the risk of being taken down, but that shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

I don't even understand why people want to recreate old quests anyway. What happened to originality?

Well the fact that most people are not creative at all, was the reason why these boxes got sold in the first place... I allways created my own adventures and campaigns, tough i must admit that i bought a whole pletora of adventure books and campaign boxes for my "fresh" ideas.

tilt42

futrix wrote: »

It might not be a great idea, I agree. I'm just speaking against the misconception that they are required to age check their playerbase. A simple checkbox when you create your account is all that is required by them. "You agree that you are 17/18 years of age and blah blah blah." Saying "it wouldn't be a great idea for a game like this" is basically agreeing with me... that this is a financial decision in hopes of grabbing the widest audience possible. Basically the same reason most MMOs don't create their own mature rated content (and then look the other way when the players do it since they aren't accountable for that kind of stuff).

It's not that simple, I'm afraid. This kind of thing is regulated by US law, and you can't just ignore that because you don't like it. As long as Cryptic's main player base is found in the US, they will have to live with these compromises.

futrix

tilt42 wrote: »

you can't just ignore that because you don't like it

I'm not ignoring it... I am outright denying it. UGC is user generated, not developed by Cryptic. It isn't rated and doesn't effect a game's rating.

That is the SIMPLEST way I can put what I'm saying. Going to the source in THEIR words, it reads as:

"Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB" - Warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment

tilt42

Foundry content isn't online interaction. It's game content stored on Cryptic's servers, and it's tightly integrated with the game.