Wisdom is a very solid stat. Charisma just seems to do better with scaling at the moment. So it does indeed come down to Int vs Wis.
Since the game revolves around the mechanic that your abilities will all be on CD at some point, recovery mathematically is best.
My new build lacked crit due to working my statistics for how %s are gained via rating points, so I basically wore exclusively recovery gear. I noticed quite a difference when you never crit lol, pretty much sucked. Think I got to 9% crit and Ar Pen, 28% rec at the end of Weekend 3, and felt I was getting closer to a proper balance.
0
prunetracyMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Recovery might be theoretically optimal, but it loses practical value every time you don't hit your abilities on cooldown. You might be forced to move, or maybe no one actually needs healing when they come up.
I agree that Recovery is valuable, but I don't think valuing it over everything is wise. Int just doesn't give much, so I'll take Wis first.
0
l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I think there is a sweet-spot depending on what powers you use, and your playstyle.
Got to the point that my Forgemaster's CD = the length of the astral flame heal. Had 18 Wis with campfire, so decent +dmg +heal %s
The one thing to consider is that you cannot get +% on gear for healing or damage, but you can from ability scores. You can always gear more for recovery/crit and drop some INT/STR for WIS. (mainly because power is bunk lol)
I'd say yes. I didn't start with the right stats for this (I maxed out Wisdom when rolling up) but on Saturday night, I stacked Crit gear and respecced and I found soloing much easier and that my Divinity refilled very quickly.
The feats I had (in no particular order) were:
Healing Action, Domain Synergy, Initiate of the Faith, Bountiful Fortune, and Weapon Mastery (all maxed. Weirdly you end up with 23 feat points).
In the 'Righteous' paragon path, I had Righteous Rage of Tempus, Ethereal Boon, Power of Oppression, the lower of the two in the fourth rank (it was so bad I can't remember what it was called, but it was better than the top one) and then the capping ability.
Of course, this was levelling, not grouping. I didn't do the level 50 dungeons and obviously we won't know what level 60 is like until, ooh, probably 3 days after launch.
Even in a PURE healing build, I found that INT and CHA (stacking recovery/crit) was your best bang for the buck. We clerics can get SO much recharge speed and action point gain, it's pretty ridiculous, tbh. The WIS stacked cleric might hit a little harder or heal for a bit more per heal, but the INT/CHA cleric will be casting his spells much more often.
Even in a PURE healing build, I found that INT and CHA (stacking recovery/crit) was your best bang for the buck. We clerics can get SO much recharge speed and action point gain, it's pretty ridiculous, tbh. The WIS stacked cleric might hit a little harder or heal for a bit more per heal, but the INT/CHA cleric will be casting his spells much more often.
Crit is, but I was stacking purely recharge time. Might be better to go STR/CHA or some such... but I was more interested in seeing how low I could get my recasts instead of my crit rate.
0
l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Too little crit will hurt you. Its a 75% jump in heals/damage. (and scales off your wisdom/recovery very well)
13 Str to start +2 for max level +1 campfire = 6%
Add 3% for feat = 9%
I had around 17% with gear and buffs (Ioun stone really helps though)
Much less than that felt like I wasn't critting very much at all.
Hate that my original post above got screwed. Even at 38.8% recovery today my FF had maybe 1/3 uptime. Maybe the power was bugged, as I think L2 and L3 added a second to the flame duration .... 4 or so was all it lasts now. Was very close to 11s last weekend.
I think I will go with this at release then. I was going to play a GF but after the beta weekend & trying out all the different classes I've decided to go with the Cleric.
For a drow & with +2 Dex & +2 Cha with these stats:
Str(12) Con(10) Dex(12) Int(10) Wis(16) Cha(18)
Thoughts/advice on this?
:cool:PLAY TO WIN:cool:|"A light in the darkness."
|
0
l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Dex is the weakest stat
I don't like that 4 or 5 races have it as their primary. Min-Max I say Tiefling .. or human if you want to stack up your T4 feats.
Personally I do CHA>WIS/INT>STR>CON>DEX (hard to do as Drow though)
recovery just scales so well, as long as you don't completely ignore everything else
Ah yes, but Drow get +2Dex without a choice, so I'm stuck with the Dex 12. When I looked at the sample rolls I could get as a cleric, I couldn't get an 8 in dex so my starting dex would be 10 with the race bonus. The lowest I could get was 10. I think the "best" stat line i could get to max out Cha starting out for me was the one I listed above.
What the OP didn't mention was what to spend the additional ability points on as you get them when you level. I presume he was throwing them into Cha, but I'm thinking it might be better to balance it out abit more by throwing the odd point into Wis too. Thoughts?
:cool:PLAY TO WIN:cool:|"A light in the darkness."
From the way the build focuses on Crit and Recovery, I would assume going for as high STR and CHA as possible, with WIS secondary. The joy of this build is that crits will refill the Divinity bar rapidly, and Recovery lets you take advantage of this. Someone posted a link to the wiki page earlier (repeated here), but based on previous posts elsewhere, the Cleric state lineup is:
Wis
Control bonus (+1%)
Control resistance (+1%)
Damage bonus (+1%)
Healing bonus (+1.33%)
Cha
Recharge speed (+1%)
Action point gain (+1%)
Companion stats bonus (+1%)
Combat advantage damage (+1%)
So CHA takes care of recharge speed, and STR is crit. INT seems to be like a terrible version of CHA - it just gives recharge speed, whereas CHA gives so much more.
Priority would be CHA, STR, WIS (since WIS apparently scales very badly - I'm trusting the calculations of others on this point). I've got a feeling your STR can't start particularly high as a Devoted Cleric (another big advantage of the human - no race has +STR and +another relevant stat, so the human's +2 on anything then extra feat points is great).
So presumably the key for a stat line is to start with as high CHA as possible, WIS the second highest stat, then INT the third highest - which it looks like you've done in your Drow stat line. But, once in game and levelling, boost STR and CHA as your priorities.
They really should pull spell casting crit away from STR and put it to INT. Needing to stack STR as a caster just feels dumb.
I completely agree with you... STR as spell crit literally makes no sense to me. INT should do that... but its how the game has it right now... Hopefully if they make this change we will get some kind of stat reallocation token or something.
But, once in game and levelling, boost STR and CHA as your priorities.
Thanks. But is there a specific order to spending the extra ability points as I level. I mean should I just even split them into STR+CHA or should I throw say 2/3 of them into CHA & 1/3 into STR etc...?
Then only thing that worries me about all of this build is that if down the road the Devs do decide to make WIS scale much better for clerics because it's supposed to be their primary stat OR like what was mentioned above, they change spell crit to be effected by INT instead of STR, then you'll have gimped out the character by focusing on a min-WIS build. I take it the re-train tokens allow you to alter you starting stats?
:cool:PLAY TO WIN:cool:|"A light in the darkness."
|
0
streamofsolaceMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Wait, crits have an increased effect on how fast we can generate Divinity?
Righteous Rage of Tempus (Righteous paragon tier 1): Critical Damage generates an extra 2/4/6/8/10% more Divine Power.
I believe that Divine Power is also built up based on the values we put out, rather than a set amount per spell, which would mean critical hits already provide more Divine Power than normal hits; however, I cannot confirm the correctness of this belief.
Thanks. But is there a specific order to spending the extra ability points as I level. I mean should I just even split them into STR+CHA or should I throw say 2/3 of them into CHA & 1/3 into STR etc...?
Then only thing that worries me about all of this build is that if down the road the Devs do decide to make WIS scale much better for clerics because it's supposed to be their primary stat OR like what was mentioned above, they change spell crit to be effected by INT instead of STR, then you'll have gimped out the character by focusing on a min-WIS build. I take it the re-train tokens allow you to alter you starting stats?
When you gain Ability Points, you get two and must spend them in different Attributes; splitting between Charisma and Strength (or whatever your preferred secondary attribute happens to be) is mandatory.
I do not have a screenshot of the character reset item nor did I purchase one, however my recollection of the text is that it resets everything AFTER character creation. Therefore, you would be stuck with the roll (Attributes) that you selected at character creation and the allocation of your race's bonus Ability Points, but would be able to redistribute the Ability Points you gained while leveling.
I do not have a screenshot of the character reset item nor did I purchase one, however my recollection of the text is that it resets everything AFTER character creation. Therefore, you would be stuck with the roll (Attributes) that you selected at character creation and the allocation of your race's bonus Ability Points, but would be able to redistribute the Ability Points you gained while leveling.
Thanks for the information!
:cool:PLAY TO WIN:cool:|"A light in the darkness."
I believe that Divine Power is also built up based on the values we put out, rather than a set amount per spell, which would mean critical hits already provide more Divine Power than normal hits; however, I cannot confirm the correctness of this belief.
I've not measured it, but subjectively it felt like this. I respecced during BW4 to get more crit and started equipping +crit items, and I found my Divine Power usually recharged fast, sometimes it recharged back to full after popping three Divine Powered encounters (so all I had to wait for was cooldowns).
Here's one of my big questions with this build:
Is the strength of the buffing spells affected by Wisdom or Charisma, or is the buff given by them a static value?
For example, say there's a buff that increases damage by 20% or something. Would a high Wisdom or Charisma make that value change to maybe 25%, or would the 20% remain the same regardless of ability scores and stats?
0
sendrienMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Here's one of my big questions with this build:
Is the strength of the buffing spells affected by Wisdom or Charisma, or is the buff given by them a static value?
For example, say there's a buff that increases damage by 20% or something. Would a high Wisdom or Charisma make that value change to maybe 25%, or would the 20% remain the same regardless of ability scores and stats?
Wisdom boosts healing and damage. So, in your example, your power would be increased by both wisdom and your buff. Said another way, wisdom doesn't buff your buff. It just acts as a separate buff.
Wisdom boosts healing and damage. So, in your example, your power would be increased by both wisdom and your buff. Said another way, wisdom doesn't buff your buff. It just acts as a separate buff.
Ah, okay. So just to be clear, my buffs would be just as potent for the party without the high Wisdom?
I really like the sound of this build, I see this as probably being more engaging because you can use the skills and spells so much more often. That, and RP-wise I don't see my character having the highest Wisdom score... Hehe.
Ah, okay. So just to be clear, my buffs would be just as potent for the party without the high Wisdom?
Your buffs would be equally potent, yes. However, your heals would not be as strong as someone who is pouring points into Wisdom, though you could heal more frequently.
Your buffs would be equally potent, yes. However, your heals would not be as strong as someone who is pouring points into Wisdom, though you could heal more frequently.
I have a request, wasn't sure exactly where to put it but this is a healthy thread that is quite helpful so what the heck.
I'm wondering if someone can make a thread to compile different cleric builds and hopefully some information about how they work, pros and cons, what kind of gear/stats/feats/powers to take, etc. As someone who hasn't had access to any of the betas, I'm kind of in the dark about all this stuff despite reading through most of these threads about cleric builds, and I am certainly not qualified to start the thread myself.
I know there is this build, the recovery/crit build. There is also a power/crit build that seems to have some followers. I guess I just want more information about the different options, but I suppose it will be hard to make sense of any of it until I can get in the game and look at the skill trees myself.
Comments
Wisdom is a very solid stat. Charisma just seems to do better with scaling at the moment. So it does indeed come down to Int vs Wis.
Since the game revolves around the mechanic that your abilities will all be on CD at some point, recovery mathematically is best.
My new build lacked crit due to working my statistics for how %s are gained via rating points, so I basically wore exclusively recovery gear. I noticed quite a difference when you never crit lol, pretty much sucked. Think I got to 9% crit and Ar Pen, 28% rec at the end of Weekend 3, and felt I was getting closer to a proper balance.
I agree that Recovery is valuable, but I don't think valuing it over everything is wise. Int just doesn't give much, so I'll take Wis first.
Got to the point that my Forgemaster's CD = the length of the astral flame heal. Had 18 Wis with campfire, so decent +dmg +heal %s
The one thing to consider is that you cannot get +% on gear for healing or damage, but you can from ability scores. You can always gear more for recovery/crit and drop some INT/STR for WIS. (mainly because power is bunk lol)
The feats I had (in no particular order) were:
Healing Action, Domain Synergy, Initiate of the Faith, Bountiful Fortune, and Weapon Mastery (all maxed. Weirdly you end up with 23 feat points).
In the 'Righteous' paragon path, I had Righteous Rage of Tempus, Ethereal Boon, Power of Oppression, the lower of the two in the fourth rank (it was so bad I can't remember what it was called, but it was better than the top one) and then the capping ability.
Of course, this was levelling, not grouping. I didn't do the level 50 dungeons and obviously we won't know what level 60 is like until, ooh, probably 3 days after launch.
Isn't crit based on STR for the cleric?
13 Str to start +2 for max level +1 campfire = 6%
Add 3% for feat = 9%
I had around 17% with gear and buffs (Ioun stone really helps though)
Much less than that felt like I wasn't critting very much at all.
Hate that my original post above got screwed. Even at 38.8% recovery today my FF had maybe 1/3 uptime. Maybe the power was bugged, as I think L2 and L3 added a second to the flame duration .... 4 or so was all it lasts now. Was very close to 11s last weekend.
For a drow & with +2 Dex & +2 Cha with these stats:
Str(12) Con(10) Dex(12) Int(10) Wis(16) Cha(18)
Thoughts/advice on this?
I don't like that 4 or 5 races have it as their primary. Min-Max I say Tiefling .. or human if you want to stack up your T4 feats.
Personally I do CHA>WIS/INT>STR>CON>DEX (hard to do as Drow though)
recovery just scales so well, as long as you don't completely ignore everything else
What the OP didn't mention was what to spend the additional ability points on as you get them when you level. I presume he was throwing them into Cha, but I'm thinking it might be better to balance it out abit more by throwing the odd point into Wis too. Thoughts?
Str
Stamina regen (+1%)
DoT damage resistance (+1%)
Crit chance (+1%)
Con
Maximum HP (+2%)
Dex
AoE damage resistance (+1%)
Deflection chance (+0.5%)
Int
Recharge speed (+1%)
Wis
Control bonus (+1%)
Control resistance (+1%)
Damage bonus (+1%)
Healing bonus (+1.33%)
Cha
Recharge speed (+1%)
Action point gain (+1%)
Companion stats bonus (+1%)
Combat advantage damage (+1%)
So CHA takes care of recharge speed, and STR is crit. INT seems to be like a terrible version of CHA - it just gives recharge speed, whereas CHA gives so much more.
Priority would be CHA, STR, WIS (since WIS apparently scales very badly - I'm trusting the calculations of others on this point). I've got a feeling your STR can't start particularly high as a Devoted Cleric (another big advantage of the human - no race has +STR and +another relevant stat, so the human's +2 on anything then extra feat points is great).
So presumably the key for a stat line is to start with as high CHA as possible, WIS the second highest stat, then INT the third highest - which it looks like you've done in your Drow stat line. But, once in game and levelling, boost STR and CHA as your priorities.
I completely agree with you... STR as spell crit literally makes no sense to me. INT should do that... but its how the game has it right now... Hopefully if they make this change we will get some kind of stat reallocation token or something.
Thanks. But is there a specific order to spending the extra ability points as I level. I mean should I just even split them into STR+CHA or should I throw say 2/3 of them into CHA & 1/3 into STR etc...?
Then only thing that worries me about all of this build is that if down the road the Devs do decide to make WIS scale much better for clerics because it's supposed to be their primary stat OR like what was mentioned above, they change spell crit to be effected by INT instead of STR, then you'll have gimped out the character by focusing on a min-WIS build. I take it the re-train tokens allow you to alter you starting stats?
I believe that Divine Power is also built up based on the values we put out, rather than a set amount per spell, which would mean critical hits already provide more Divine Power than normal hits; however, I cannot confirm the correctness of this belief.
When you gain Ability Points, you get two and must spend them in different Attributes; splitting between Charisma and Strength (or whatever your preferred secondary attribute happens to be) is mandatory.
I do not have a screenshot of the character reset item nor did I purchase one, however my recollection of the text is that it resets everything AFTER character creation. Therefore, you would be stuck with the roll (Attributes) that you selected at character creation and the allocation of your race's bonus Ability Points, but would be able to redistribute the Ability Points you gained while leveling.
Thanks for the information!
I've not measured it, but subjectively it felt like this. I respecced during BW4 to get more crit and started equipping +crit items, and I found my Divine Power usually recharged fast, sometimes it recharged back to full after popping three Divine Powered encounters (so all I had to wait for was cooldowns).
Is the strength of the buffing spells affected by Wisdom or Charisma, or is the buff given by them a static value?
For example, say there's a buff that increases damage by 20% or something. Would a high Wisdom or Charisma make that value change to maybe 25%, or would the 20% remain the same regardless of ability scores and stats?
Wisdom boosts healing and damage. So, in your example, your power would be increased by both wisdom and your buff. Said another way, wisdom doesn't buff your buff. It just acts as a separate buff.
Ah, okay. So just to be clear, my buffs would be just as potent for the party without the high Wisdom?
I really like the sound of this build, I see this as probably being more engaging because you can use the skills and spells so much more often. That, and RP-wise I don't see my character having the highest Wisdom score... Hehe.
60 Drow Trickster Rogue
11 Elf Control Wizard
Server: Beholder
Guild: Praetor Lupus
Guild Website: http://www.PraetorLupus.com
Hero of the North & Guardian of Neverwinter Founder.
Your buffs would be equally potent, yes. However, your heals would not be as strong as someone who is pouring points into Wisdom, though you could heal more frequently.
Awesome, thanks!
Could it be... A fellow Black Books fan?! :0
I'm wondering if someone can make a thread to compile different cleric builds and hopefully some information about how they work, pros and cons, what kind of gear/stats/feats/powers to take, etc. As someone who hasn't had access to any of the betas, I'm kind of in the dark about all this stuff despite reading through most of these threads about cleric builds, and I am certainly not qualified to start the thread myself.
I know there is this build, the recovery/crit build. There is also a power/crit build that seems to have some followers. I guess I just want more information about the different options, but I suppose it will be hard to make sense of any of it until I can get in the game and look at the skill trees myself.