kimundiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited March 2013
I had to stop leveling up my cleric, despite my love for healers. I'm 35 in Ebon Downs, I can't get past the second room. Keep dying all the time.
It also put in perspective the stats I want to build. Usually I would max power to max my healing capacities, but now I focus on damage/defense to finish mobs more quickly and stay alive...
I have given up partying and dungeons as mostly the only one to always die when I heal as all mobs seem to zerge me when I do any heal even with full threat reduction
I was tanking in a skirmish and the 2nd place in damage taken was the cleric.
I only have 1 aoe taunt and that's with cooldown. What can I do?
As a Cleric point of view, my idea is that you can't actually do anything. I've seen more than one tank scratching their heads wondering why the mobs wouldn't leave me, not even taunted, just due to one passive heal.
Actually, I've been reading around that you, as a cleric, don't even need to heal. Just stand there and you'll get the aggro. hehe
[Campaign] Into the Heart of Time (NWS-DLSK763NH) by @ahkronnemesis
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
High aggro and low self-healing is not a winning formula.
Last beta weekend I had fun with the cleric, after this weekend, if they don't fix it, you couldn't pay me to play one again.
This weekend my cleric grouped with a great-weapon fighter who favored using the slow, charge-up attack. That pair turned out to be a terrible combo. I pulled all the aggro, took all the damage, and the GWF would miss and waste cooldowns as the mobs chased me around. The only effective strategy for GWF & cleric, if the cleric doesn't want to tank every fight, was to only attack when the mobs were near death and only heal between battles - which is very unsatisfying gameplay.
I ran with a balanced group in the Clock Tower and it was a disaster for my cleric. I came in 2nd for damage received, after the Guardian Fighter. Some of the other party members took only 1/10 of the damage I took. The aggro is flat-out broken - the only way not to aggro the entire room is to do nothing. The experience was quite painful - I died lots, and the guardian fighter would die shortly afterwards.
The reduced self-healing is overkill - my cleric went through more healing potions than all of the other classes I played - the cleric lacks the survivability tools that other classes have.
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2013
Please revert healing back to how it was, im tired of the piddly heals and the aggro for no reason, why does a 30 point heal draw aggro from all enemies
And more importantly, why is my level 20 healing for 40 hit points when i have 5k hp
High aggro and low self-healing is not a winning formula.
Last beta weekend I had fun with the cleric, after this weekend, if they don't fix it, you couldn't pay me to play one again.
This weekend my cleric grouped with a great-weapon fighter who favored using the slow, charge-up attack. That pair turned out to be a terrible combo. I pulled all the aggro, took all the damage, and the GWF would miss and waste cooldowns as the mobs chased me around. The only effective strategy for GWF & cleric, if the cleric doesn't want to tank every fight, was to only attack when the mobs were near death and only heal between battles - which is very unsatisfying gameplay.
I ran with a balanced group in the Clock Tower and it was a disaster for my cleric. I came in 2nd for damage received, after the Guardian Fighter. Some of the other party members took only 1/10 of the damage I took. The aggro is flat-out broken - the only way not to aggro the entire room is to do nothing. The experience was quite painful - I died lots, and the guardian fighter would die shortly afterwards.
The reduced self-healing is overkill - my cleric went through more healing potions than all of the other classes I played - the cleric lacks the survivability tools that other classes have.
Looks to me like they're trying to drive us to the cash shop for that $15 heal stone pretty early in the game (L30ish on). We will need more than one healing stone a month, which means this game will cost more than a subscription game.
tried out a cleric for this beta and have to say the self heal sucks. I was downing pots like I was on my rogue. Seemed like I picked up aggro from across the football field so to speak even when I already aggroed by something.
I didn't notice last Beta Weekend but this weekend I saw Clerics have a "righteousness" general skill that reduces your heals by %50 when you are healing yourself. Now I understand that they may want a little more of a challenge when solo'ing on a cleric but imo I feel %50 less heals may be a tad too much. Especially with the aggro we were generating with healing. Still had a blast but that was a little annoying and I was chugging heals pots like they were Coronas.
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thetasticofs13gMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
My friend and I started joking about cleric tanks today because while he was on his guardian he had a terrible time trying to keep aggro.
I completly loved the game, but two things really frustrated me:
1 - Knowing that im praticly the tank in ALL dungeons since for some reason none can keep the aggro away from me.
Everytime i was dungeoning, in party, even with a Guardian fighter aggro specc'd, i would get all the aggro.
2 - This 50% debuff on self healing, wtf ?! So not just i gotta tank and heal the hole party with a weak@ss heals we have, but it only heals half on the person who is taking the whole damage (me) ? ...Pathetic.
Please fix this man, i see absolutly NO reason to have a Guardian Fighter (tank) on a party when im the one taking 80% of the damage...
I'm always the top damaged player in the end of the dungeons, literaly a fact (since it shows).
I completly loved the game, but two things really frustrated me:
1 - Knowing that im praticly the tank in ALL dungeons since for some reason none can keep the aggro away from me.
Everytime i was dungeoning, in party, even with a Guardian fighter aggro specc'd, i would get all the aggro.
2 - This 50% debuff on self healing, wtf ?! So not just i gotta tank and heal the hole party with a weak@ss heals we have, but it only heals half on the person who is taking the whole damage (me) ? ...Pathetic.
Please fix this man, i see absolutly NO reason to have a Guardian Fighter (tank) on a party when im the one taking 80% of the damage...
I'm always the top damaged player in the end of the dungeons, literaly a fact (since it shows).
The only time i had a good run on my cleric today was when we had 2 rogues a tank and a caster in the group. It wasnt the tank was holding agro but the dps was so high the mobs really didnt have a chance to get away from our dps. Was the best run this weekend actually.
Its not the tanks are not able to get agro is just the threat a cleric generates is off the charts this weekend, it was fine last weekend, you actually could have a functioning group.
the only thing this game needs ,and i'm sure the Dev's will address.. is the tank classes have a better threat aoe.. to help out on healer aggro
Really,healer aggro isn't that much worse in this game as any other i've played.. i for one get tired of all the lame *****ing about this game.
The i want it now generation. wants every thing handed to them .. i got an idea ..."learn to play your class."
the only thing this game needs ,and i'm sure the Dev's will address.. is the tank classes have a better threat aoe.. to help out on healer aggro
Really,healer aggro isn't that much worse in this game as any other i've played.. i for one get tired of all the lame *****ing about this game.
The i want it now generation. wants every thing handed to them .. i got an idea ..."learn to play your class."
This is a beta. We are here to provide feedback to make a better game.
Actually, the healer aggro is far worse than in other games - it's obviously broken. And this is not just about tank threat management.
- If another class goes in and hits the mobs first, and the cleric immediately pulls all the mobs off them as soon as they start casting, that's just not how it should work.
- If a cleric can peel bosses off a tank on a regular basis, that's not how it should work either.
- When a cleric can simultaneously pull bosses off a tank, and other mobs off off-tanks, and all the mobs in every encounter end up focusing on the cleric, and it's not possible for anyone else in the group to regain aggro, then threat management is obviously not working as intended.
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atriana1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited March 2013
First beta here. Always loved to play healer or tanks in all games, been playing MMO's for 15 years.
I ran a simple test with my cleric.
I used the regen on a full HP wizard that was not in combat. He waited just before last tick of heal to attack a mob.
I did nothing else. Just stood there taking a pounding while the wizard killed the mob from full to 0.
This is not a "learn to play your class" thing. This is a "broken mechanic but fun to test" thing.
Ran Cloak tower at level 15, tanked everything. Sadly died once.
Back at 16 with a "tank" invocation. It was able to keep aggro out of me when the tank failed. Went much smoother.
Tank really have to learn to build aggro in a new game, but heals can't stay like that.
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joukuoj32Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
holding agro constantly from boss and 1mob wasnt hard(think its broken, did like 10% dmg and only spamming tab key to hold agro, lair of mad dragon kite last 2 bosses only with tab key and running around didnt lost agro from them, tryed keep agro from 1 more mob but was marked and still didnt came to me) but dont know how hold agro from more mobs, later you get shield slam(you can spam it) which mark all targets around but it didnt work(all targets marked and ignore me, only was lvl34 so maybe later it will be better
if they fix that shield slam(its at will power, dont know in game name) you have AoE agro skill
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kegolinMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This doesn't make sense to me, are mobs trying to kill cos you are an Cleric or you just cast a low HoT?, or is it the statement that the cleric just need to die?, maybe give us Cleric a taunt aswell just for the heck off it, cos something is really bugged atm.
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alydarielMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
Are you guys pulling all this threat without a gaurdian fighter in your party? Or a GWF speced to off tank? cause then I understand, you should be the first target always, in any MMO. Always take out the healer first, you gotta run with people that can distract those mobs for you and it should be fine.
I ran a couple of dungeons, in the early ones the tank seemed to have little difficulty in keeping aggro of me, however as I spent more action points into the threat reduction, the more aggro I seemed to generate. As someone else said one Astral Seal and the whole room would pounce on me. I found myself being less and less effective as a result.
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zanarkheneldMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Changes to the cleric are bad, bad, bad. I don't even play one and I can see that. You cannot reduce this class's self heal ability. It is the only mitigation they have. How on earth can they keep a team up if they can't heal themselves at the same rate?
As for the aggro, I'm going to assume this was a mistake and someone misplaced a decimal somewhere, because if the cleric on my team even threw out one baby heal, the whole map wanted a piece of him. As dps, I spent every dungeon trying to kill stuff off the cleric and could not get aggro off him at all. It was stupid.
oh i was talking about clerics in DnD in general... you know complete heals and the likes... that's how difficult a cleric is to kill normally... and it should be like that too in this game...
Yeah I honestly posted about this long ago and tbh this is not NWN or D&D style play and personally I find it insulting that pwe is even using the logos. Their devs have no clue what NWN or D&D was and butchered it so badly that this is like a bad joke. They first bragged about releasing a new style gaming which they were just releasing a style that has been out for sometime guess they forgot titles like monster hunter and ktera (just to name a few) which beat them to the punch. Then to make it worse they ruined the name NWN with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I do not see the varied paths to take, different character types or anything just the plain old okay priest your a healer, warrior tanks this isn't D&D period where priests can be good, evil, heal, dmg, tank. Instead this was a poorly thought out new skinned raiderz riding on the coat tails of the name NWN and D&D.
PWE and Cryptic you missed the whole entire concept of D&D and to even keep saying otherwise is a disgrace. This project is the entire reason after playing many of PWE games I will never play another or your previous titles. You have now lived up to my once altered expectations of f2p mmos and returned to they are all trash. Great Job.
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idranathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited March 2013
A friend and I were playing this weekend. I was the cleric and he was the guardian fighter. After the first 2 skirmishes that had me pulling aggro like a champ we tried some things out. It really didn't matter how long I waited to cast a heal, because all the adds would run right to me even if they were damaged by the tank/dps, with a second heal the boss would.
Both of us are not new to MMOs, we have both played Everquest for 5 years and WoW from Vanilla to Cat, raiding end game. Yet there was nothing he could do other then spam his taunt abilities to keep them off me and that did not work. What we found that worked was that I would cast the aoe root, then heal, then electric slide back and forth through the section the dps and tank were at so that they could hit them as they ran after me, rooting as the cooldown came up. I still tanked it, but the monster died faster then if I just ran around in a circle.
I bug reported Righteousness (the -50% heal on self debuff), because it doesn't seem to be needed. I could hardly clear a level 42 solo dungeon at 46 this weekend, because I could barely heal myself enough from the boss damage, and I can't put out rogue dps numbers, so stuff takes a bit to die.
This debuff basically says... you can't solo (or you can, but why would you want to).
I bug reported Righteousness (the -50% heal on self debuff), because it doesn't seem to be needed. I could hardly clear a level 42 solo dungeon at 46 this weekend, because I could barely heal myself enough from the boss damage, and I can't put out rogue dps numbers, so stuff takes a bit to die.
This debuff basically says... you can't solo (or you can, but why would you want to).
\
i got around that debuff by using a cleric companion as their heals did 100% effect on you and let you use your strong attacks to solo. in groups my pet kept me alive with heals while I healed everyone else.
Oh Atari how I miss you!
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
finding dungeons a waste of time, I continued soloing. I had to refine/adjust my tactics from last beta, but found it fairly doable solo. Not as powerful solo this time around as last. Last beta I advanced to lvl 33 and think I used maybe 3 healing potions. This time going from 33-39 so far I've used around 75-100 potions.
If the key now is to make a coin sink outta potions, they have succeeded. Not sure how anyone is buying a horse or companion this time around. Glad I got mine during beta2, cause my GWF is no where near having the money for one, let alone multi this go round. Good thing I an trade money to him.
See how they change it again for open beta..
Well this was my first Beta weekend and I did not have time to play much. Cleric was good in PvP and I owned it with good skill from FPS games, but PvE was hard!
However Cleric got hard to play maybe because I tried to play without companion lol already at Orcs. Thief(Blacklake) district was easy before that. Well I'll get a companion when I play next time but Cleric should not get so much aggro.
etherealbabeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
I just want to say first off, this is only my second time posting on any sort of forum, my first time being posting on a WoW forum during BC. It takes a lot for me to actually complain about something but the cleric self healing reduction actually did it. It is simply idiotic that as a healer who does not tank and mitigate damage like the GF, cannot down things as fast as a Rogue and cannot cc things as well as a CW is forced to drink as many potions if not more so because they cannot keep themselves up during many different encounters. I have been reading all the forums I can about the cleric healing nerf (as well as the outrageous aggro we encountered this weekend) and in the "Clerics + Aggro, wtf?" forum it was posted that Cryptic_LordAzrael actually posted this "Regarding Cleric self heals, they will likely remain fairly minor for the Cleric. This is to help balance the fact that Clerics don't need to use as many health potions as other classes. Before the self heal reduction, Clerics would pretty much always have more gold than all other classes.
It was also creating situations where Clerics would just self heal tank through encounters.
So as unfortunate as the reduction is, it does make you a more concerned with taking damage in combat, which hopefully leads to a more satisfying experience at the end of the day."
So basically they are trying to take away one of the perks to being a healing class: the fact that we don't need to use as many potions. So what if we don't need to buy potions or we can sell the ones we find so we make some gold? We can't kill things as fast so it takes us longer to get other items that creatures drop that might be much more valuable than health pots!
As a healer I expect to take a long time leveling up, to a solo dungeons and to finish quests, but I also expect to be rather difficult for things to kill me unless I am focused on. As it stands right now, I am basically a very weak dps that just guzzles health pots if two or more mobs focus on me, except when I had the divinity to use forgemaster's flame since I am pretty sure that was not affected by the 50% self heal reduction, when that was up I actually stood a chance!
I like how clerics self healing is now, but the aggro is out of hand. I did an orc skirmish with all offense abilities, the only heal i SOMETIMES used was the Holy Seal right mouse ability. That was enough heal to generate aggro for life, i took 80%+ of all damage taken in the entire encounter, i was chased by every monster ever. I think i aggro'd the human guards. I got hate mail and death threats via text messaging. My dog bit me.
They just had a 'ask me anything' segment a few hours ago with some combat devs. Cleric aggro was definitely bugged and has already been fixed or is being fixed. The self heal nerf had a slight bug that was actually reducing it by more than 50%, which will also be fixed.
The self heal nerf is here to stay though, at least for now. One of the devs mentioned that the cleric class had significantly more gold than other classes, and their intention, like it or not, is that every class will need to use potions.
The healing problem might not be so bad, once the aggro is fixed. Less aggro in groups will mean less damage and while solo a tank pet will now be able to do its job as intended.
I thought it was pretty much good news.
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lostinthesauseMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
Galthis if they are doing what they said and this dose happen then that is good news. >_> aggro was really, really, really bad. With I had some funny video of a cleric hitting a monster on the head then hole room looks at him or something but don't. Hope they fix it and I love playing cleric
Comments
It also put in perspective the stats I want to build. Usually I would max power to max my healing capacities, but now I focus on damage/defense to finish mobs more quickly and stay alive...
I only have 1 aoe taunt and that's with cooldown. What can I do?
As a Cleric point of view, my idea is that you can't actually do anything. I've seen more than one tank scratching their heads wondering why the mobs wouldn't leave me, not even taunted, just due to one passive heal.
Actually, I've been reading around that you, as a cleric, don't even need to heal. Just stand there and you'll get the aggro. hehe
Chapter I - The Cult of Kairos (NW-DJFINX9KB)
Chapter II - The Halls of Mortality (NW-DOE3ZC671)
Chapter III - Paradox ( Soon )
Last beta weekend I had fun with the cleric, after this weekend, if they don't fix it, you couldn't pay me to play one again.
This weekend my cleric grouped with a great-weapon fighter who favored using the slow, charge-up attack. That pair turned out to be a terrible combo. I pulled all the aggro, took all the damage, and the GWF would miss and waste cooldowns as the mobs chased me around. The only effective strategy for GWF & cleric, if the cleric doesn't want to tank every fight, was to only attack when the mobs were near death and only heal between battles - which is very unsatisfying gameplay.
I ran with a balanced group in the Clock Tower and it was a disaster for my cleric. I came in 2nd for damage received, after the Guardian Fighter. Some of the other party members took only 1/10 of the damage I took. The aggro is flat-out broken - the only way not to aggro the entire room is to do nothing. The experience was quite painful - I died lots, and the guardian fighter would die shortly afterwards.
The reduced self-healing is overkill - my cleric went through more healing potions than all of the other classes I played - the cleric lacks the survivability tools that other classes have.
And more importantly, why is my level 20 healing for 40 hit points when i have 5k hp
This completely^
Also what's worse is they've greatly reduced the droprate on heal potions - and the gold we make won't cover what we will need to spend on potions.
Looks to me like they're trying to drive us to the cash shop for that $15 heal stone pretty early in the game (L30ish on). We will need more than one healing stone a month, which means this game will cost more than a subscription game.
1 - Knowing that im praticly the tank in ALL dungeons since for some reason none can keep the aggro away from me.
Everytime i was dungeoning, in party, even with a Guardian fighter aggro specc'd, i would get all the aggro.
2 - This 50% debuff on self healing, wtf ?! So not just i gotta tank and heal the hole party with a weak@ss heals we have, but it only heals half on the person who is taking the whole damage (me) ? ...Pathetic.
Please fix this man, i see absolutly NO reason to have a Guardian Fighter (tank) on a party when im the one taking 80% of the damage...
I'm always the top damaged player in the end of the dungeons, literaly a fact (since it shows).
The only time i had a good run on my cleric today was when we had 2 rogues a tank and a caster in the group. It wasnt the tank was holding agro but the dps was so high the mobs really didnt have a chance to get away from our dps. Was the best run this weekend actually.
Its not the tanks are not able to get agro is just the threat a cleric generates is off the charts this weekend, it was fine last weekend, you actually could have a functioning group.
Really,healer aggro isn't that much worse in this game as any other i've played.. i for one get tired of all the lame *****ing about this game.
The i want it now generation. wants every thing handed to them .. i got an idea ..."learn to play your class."
This is a beta. We are here to provide feedback to make a better game.
Actually, the healer aggro is far worse than in other games - it's obviously broken. And this is not just about tank threat management.
- If another class goes in and hits the mobs first, and the cleric immediately pulls all the mobs off them as soon as they start casting, that's just not how it should work.
- If a cleric can peel bosses off a tank on a regular basis, that's not how it should work either.
- When a cleric can simultaneously pull bosses off a tank, and other mobs off off-tanks, and all the mobs in every encounter end up focusing on the cleric, and it's not possible for anyone else in the group to regain aggro, then threat management is obviously not working as intended.
I ran a simple test with my cleric.
I used the regen on a full HP wizard that was not in combat. He waited just before last tick of heal to attack a mob.
I did nothing else. Just stood there taking a pounding while the wizard killed the mob from full to 0.
This is not a "learn to play your class" thing. This is a "broken mechanic but fun to test" thing.
Ran Cloak tower at level 15, tanked everything. Sadly died once.
Back at 16 with a "tank" invocation. It was able to keep aggro out of me when the tank failed. Went much smoother.
Tank really have to learn to build aggro in a new game, but heals can't stay like that.
if they fix that shield slam(its at will power, dont know in game name) you have AoE agro skill
This doesn't make sense to me, are mobs trying to kill cos you are an Cleric or you just cast a low HoT?, or is it the statement that the cleric just need to die?, maybe give us Cleric a taunt aswell just for the heck off it, cos something is really bugged atm.
I ran a couple of dungeons, in the early ones the tank seemed to have little difficulty in keeping aggro of me, however as I spent more action points into the threat reduction, the more aggro I seemed to generate. As someone else said one Astral Seal and the whole room would pounce on me. I found myself being less and less effective as a result.
As for the aggro, I'm going to assume this was a mistake and someone misplaced a decimal somewhere, because if the cleric on my team even threw out one baby heal, the whole map wanted a piece of him. As dps, I spent every dungeon trying to kill stuff off the cleric and could not get aggro off him at all. It was stupid.
Yeah I honestly posted about this long ago and tbh this is not NWN or D&D style play and personally I find it insulting that pwe is even using the logos. Their devs have no clue what NWN or D&D was and butchered it so badly that this is like a bad joke. They first bragged about releasing a new style gaming which they were just releasing a style that has been out for sometime guess they forgot titles like monster hunter and ktera (just to name a few) which beat them to the punch. Then to make it worse they ruined the name NWN with this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I do not see the varied paths to take, different character types or anything just the plain old okay priest your a healer, warrior tanks this isn't D&D period where priests can be good, evil, heal, dmg, tank. Instead this was a poorly thought out new skinned raiderz riding on the coat tails of the name NWN and D&D.
PWE and Cryptic you missed the whole entire concept of D&D and to even keep saying otherwise is a disgrace. This project is the entire reason after playing many of PWE games I will never play another or your previous titles. You have now lived up to my once altered expectations of f2p mmos and returned to they are all trash. Great Job.
Both of us are not new to MMOs, we have both played Everquest for 5 years and WoW from Vanilla to Cat, raiding end game. Yet there was nothing he could do other then spam his taunt abilities to keep them off me and that did not work. What we found that worked was that I would cast the aoe root, then heal, then electric slide back and forth through the section the dps and tank were at so that they could hit them as they ran after me, rooting as the cooldown came up. I still tanked it, but the monster died faster then if I just ran around in a circle.
This debuff basically says... you can't solo (or you can, but why would you want to).
i got around that debuff by using a cleric companion as their heals did 100% effect on you and let you use your strong attacks to solo. in groups my pet kept me alive with heals while I healed everyone else.
However Cleric got hard to play maybe because I tried to play without companion lol already at Orcs. Thief(Blacklake) district was easy before that. Well I'll get a companion when I play next time but Cleric should not get so much aggro.
Please fix these issues and buff Clerics to open Beta. At the end of this interview is a confirmation that there will be open Beta. Pretty fresh news from Pax East:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY_-O-AhDJU&feature=youtu.be
It was also creating situations where Clerics would just self heal tank through encounters.
So as unfortunate as the reduction is, it does make you a more concerned with taking damage in combat, which hopefully leads to a more satisfying experience at the end of the day."
So basically they are trying to take away one of the perks to being a healing class: the fact that we don't need to use as many potions. So what if we don't need to buy potions or we can sell the ones we find so we make some gold? We can't kill things as fast so it takes us longer to get other items that creatures drop that might be much more valuable than health pots!
As a healer I expect to take a long time leveling up, to a solo dungeons and to finish quests, but I also expect to be rather difficult for things to kill me unless I am focused on. As it stands right now, I am basically a very weak dps that just guzzles health pots if two or more mobs focus on me, except when I had the divinity to use forgemaster's flame since I am pretty sure that was not affected by the 50% self heal reduction, when that was up I actually stood a chance!
The self heal nerf is here to stay though, at least for now. One of the devs mentioned that the cleric class had significantly more gold than other classes, and their intention, like it or not, is that every class will need to use potions.
The healing problem might not be so bad, once the aggro is fixed. Less aggro in groups will mean less damage and while solo a tank pet will now be able to do its job as intended.
I thought it was pretty much good news.