Yeah it's definitely not a Controller from City of Heroes or a Coercer from Everquest 2, the crowd control is very short lived and as I've described, has me cycling quickly as priority targets close range. I'm not sure if we'll get more spell aside from level increases and additional paragon paths, I do wish we had more familiar spells in our progression though. I'm guessing it is not in the nature of 4E to be limited to specific spells but I don't know enough. I enjoyed playing it for what it was, and I guess the crowd control duration is relative to the quick speed combat that the game entails.
How the game is balanced I wouldn't call them weak at least vs the enemies. Perhaps comparing them to other classes. I didn't think they were bad at all, but we've got confirmation that their holds are being buffed, that should just about do the trick, being control war's.
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gowalnutsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
I only ask to let the wizard move while attacking. His attacks are not strong, so being stand is almost suicide.
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asolarMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited March 2013
I am lvl 19 now, and i dont feel weak at all, plenty of cc effect and good dps. Everything is just to easy for my taste right now, i dont even need to combo and time the cc effect correct in must fights. If we can move and shoot our normal missile then we would become quite crazy.
If other classes can do everything easier than on my wiz, then this game really is to easy.
Asolar stil looking for pants
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pyrophoriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I do not see what people are talking about. I got to 19 as well, and did Cloak tower twice now.. Got top DPS on both runs, against rogues.. What's the problem?
I do not see what people are talking about. I got to 19 as well, and did Cloak tower twice now.. Got top DPS on both runs, against rogues.. What's the problem?
Cloak Tower is a level 15/16 dungeon. It would be fairly understandable that you got top dps if you were paired with level 15/16s as a level 18/19.
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gizmo53Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited March 2013
i did 50 today and this class is overpowered, after patch changes cc became long enough to kill 3-5 "elite" mobs at once, and with good positioning and ccing pvp is easies thing ever;) it wasnt like that in second beta but now, this class rules the world;)
I've played up to lvl28 and i have to say they're a little underpowered, I'm getting out DPS'd by Great swords by as much as 200k dps in dungeons when i'm going balls to the walls DPS (4 stack RoE > EF > CoI > Chill strike). In PVP I get absolutely demolished by rogues, they just sit through my dps and stroll up to me, Clerics are hopeless to kill (this is all assuming they have a clue what they're doing)
Magic Missile is by far the best single-target DPS move we have other than RoE, so if you're not using the hell out of it, that may be why you're lagging behind. That said, CW is not a striker, so it should be out-damaged by TR and GWF. As a controller, your job is to control, which can include damage in the form of removing large groups of weak mobs, but far more importantly it means locking targets down so everyone else can do more damage.
I'm currently level 25 and getting my butt handed to me in the Graveyard, specifically when dealing with groups of mobs that include summoners - I'm getting overrun quickly, even with my tanky companion.
Sympathy - That trickster that always kills you in PVP
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited March 2013
As of level 34, I am regularly taking out mobs of 3-4 lieutenants and a captain (with say, 3-4 minions) without breaking a sweat. Or using a health pot. One thing that changed: There are two powers to keep at all times - repel and entanglement. Anything else is fluff. Also, dropping MM is a no-no. No matter how "outranked" it is. It's your main ability. Period.
Read and play around with the spells. You have 3 major things to think about as a Control Wizard:
1) Which spell do I put in my tab
2) What do I want to focus on, CC or Damage
3) Which way do I want to do it (Cold powers or Arcane or Combination).
I spent some time yesterday in dungeons playing with those choices.
Arcane:
You get 1 stack of Arcane Mastery when you complete 3 cycles of Magic Missile (you get the multi missile graphic)
Arcane spells become stronger the more stacks you have (Max 5 stacks). Holds last longer etc.
Cold:
You put a chill stack on a target when you hit with cold spells.
When a MOB has (i believe 5 or 6 doing this from memory) stacks they freeze.
Choosing the Tab Slot power:
Encounter Spells have a secondary description at the bottom of the description.
Some will do aoe damage others make them targetable or increase duration.
Example:
Repel turns into a cone attack in the tab slot.
If you are having trouble soloing take a look at your spell selections and see if you can move things around to better handle the situation.
Thanks for all the advice. I took a fresh look at my spells and developed some new tactics that seem to work a lot better. I had to team up with a rogue to do the Doomguide bit, but I was able to move on to the DC quest line on my own (plus tanky companion). One thing I've (finally) learned was the value of the "choke" spell to keep spellcasters from summoning adds.
Well first off, I get some of the highest dmg scores in every pvp match and pve dungeon run I do as a control wizard. Secondly you have multiple skills to prevent enemies from reaching you. Lastly, you can spec into talents that increase the rate in which your chill stacks add up and freeze an enemy faster. If anything I'd say the Control wizard is a monster with large amount of CC and dmg. If you are really having a difficult time grasping the class grab a tank companion and a healer companion and then all you have to do is hold left mouse button and laugh. That would also give u time to learn your abilites and try out new combos.
I lvl'd to 50 with mine, and out damage most rogues in dungeons anyways, had no issue lvl'ing, btw best mastery is ray of enfeeblement imo, that debuff x2 is crazy strong. Loving the increased hold time and increased freeze chance on ice rays.
Definitely wouldn't say they're weak, especially not in PvP. With consideration of how poor the two Guardian fighters are, they're a little too strong if anything.
Brodicus - 60 Trickster Rogue - Dragon
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menzobarrenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited March 2013
Levelled to 46 mainly solo content. Laughed as I punted the pirate boss and the troll bosses off the side of cliffs with the daily ice storm skill, combined with the skill to increase skill points on crit, and the daillies come fast and furious oh and shield at 45, well thats going to have to change. No idea what numbers that was doing but wow it seemed powerful.
Have no idea why people say this class is weak, ice chill on tab alternated with force choke can lock down any enemy full stop, actually used enfeeblement with that combo for a long time till I got shield and smashed my way through the quests
i kind of feel alot of people are disappointed in the wizard because its not a boom cannon. Honestly i'm with them on that, I do like having utility as much as the next magic user but I want to lob fireballs and lightning bolts at the baddies :P
I think you guys need to relax and realize Wizard will always be a combo class. You have to be smart with your playstyle. Much of the strategy that I employ involves me cc-ing and building up to use dailies that just completely destroy enemies. I agree that some of the spells seems to do lackluster damage compared to the damage of such classes as the rogue or greatweapon fighter, but this class is built around cc and survivability through combat tricks. I have been destroying the quests, skirmishes, dungeons and PvP as my control wizard! I am level 32 right now and I am loving the class. It takes a lot more skill than the other classes, but if you manage your cc correctly you can dominate all situations. I have been topping the PvP battles easily with my control wizard!
I think you guys need to relax and realize Wizard will always be a combo class. You have to be smart with your playstyle. Much of the strategy that I employ involves me cc-ing and building up to use dailies that just completely destroy enemies. I agree that some of the spells seems to do lackluster damage compared to the damage of such classes as the rogue or greatweapon fighter, but this class is built around cc and survivability through combat tricks. I have been destroying the quests, skirmishes, dungeons and PvP as my control wizard! I am level 32 right now and I am loving the class. It takes a lot more skill than the other classes, but if you manage your cc correctly you can dominate all situations. I have been topping the PvP battles easily with my control wizard!
well its nice and all, but where is my life ending KABOOM i want :P
i kind of feel alot of people are disappointed in the wizard because its not a boom cannon. Honestly i'm with them on that, I do like having utility as much as the next magic user but I want to lob fireballs and lightning bolts at the baddies :P
This is the Control Wizard. The War Wizard, which is the kaboom guy that you want, is not out yet.
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rangorvixMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 19Arc User
edited March 2013
I had a small amount of time to play the Control Wizard this weekend for the 1st time playing the game, and i enjoyed the tactical nature of being rooted while casting, deciding when to teleport and CC was okay. Combat seems a really strong point of the game, even if I have some visual character customisation concerns, as that seems abit basic for a new mmo...but I can largely ignore that. Its a fun game to play and the Control Wizard seems fun in the early levels.
But yea, "CC is okay" was my discription, and when I read this back I thought that really a CONTROL wizard should be epic at CC. There is a Control Paragon set of Feats, and it occures to me that there really should be more control boosting feats here. Most feats seem to be self survival (eg; teleport bonuses)or damage bonus on chilled, or damage debuff(fine with that i suppose), with only some very weak actual control orientated feats, usually around adding or improving chill stacks. Yes, Chilling faster helps to control, but its no stun or immobilise, the only real benefitial feats I see to stunning and immobilising is Alacrity, and thats only 2.5seconds off the recharge of 2 spells (maybe it should affect Steal Time, or similar stunning/immobilsing/knocking prone spell). I think this Paragon tree could do with some buffing to Control.
Hey, I could be wrong, I have no idea if this would make Control Wizard OP at high levels, but I figure buffing the Control abilities through the control paragon would be safest, boosting durations of stuns/immobilsations, more recharge reductions on control spells, etc. Then if it over controlling, the Wizard is nerfed in damage because he didnt go into the damage Paragons. Choices. Do I want to deal good damage with some control, or increased control and do abit of damage, choices are always fun to play and see.
Anyways, just my ramblings, either way, I have my fingers crossed for this game;D
I had a small amount of time to play the Control Wizard this weekend for the 1st time playing the game, and i enjoyed the tactical nature of being rooted while casting, deciding when to teleport and CC was okay. Combat seems a really strong point of the game, even if I have some visual character customisation concerns, as that seems abit basic for a new mmo...but I can largely ignore that. Its a fun game to play and the Control Wizard seems fun in the early levels.
But yea, "CC is okay" was my discription, and when I read this back I thought that really a CONTROL wizard should be epic at CC. There is a Control Paragon set of Feats, and it occures to me that there really should be more control boosting feats here. Most feats seem to be self survival (eg; teleport bonuses)or damage bonus on chilled, or damage debuff(fine with that i suppose), with only some very weak actual control orientated feats, usually around adding or improving chill stacks. Yes, Chilling faster helps to control, but its no stun or immobilise, the only real benefitial feats I see to stunning and immobilising is Alacrity, and thats only 2.5seconds off the recharge of 2 spells (maybe it should affect Steal Time, or similar stunning/immobilsing/knocking prone spell). I think this Paragon tree could do with some buffing to Control.
Hey, I could be wrong, I have no idea if this would make Control Wizard OP at high levels, but I figure buffing the Control abilities through the control paragon would be safest, boosting durations of stuns/immobilsations, more recharge reductions on control spells, etc. Then if it over controlling, the Wizard is nerfed in damage because he didnt go into the damage Paragons. Choices. Do I want to deal good damage with some control, or increased control and do abit of damage, choices are always fun to play and see.
Anyways, just my ramblings, either way, I have my fingers crossed for this game;D
At level 5, I had a slow/stun, another stun, another stun, and a knock-back. You need more CC?
i kind of feel alot of people are disappointed in the wizard because its not a boom cannon. Honestly i'm with them on that, I do like having utility as much as the next magic user but I want to lob fireballs and lightning bolts at the baddies :P
The control wizard was a blast to play in PvP but PvE, well I don't know. Solo play into the 20th it was very easy, boss npc never had a real chance with all the cc going but every group encounter was very tedious compared vs. GWF & Cleric.
The aoe/cone powers outside of daily powers feel very luckluster early on, the first one "Conduit of Ice" just plain sucks. "Chilling Cloud" has a very hard stand against dmg from "Magic Missile" and utility from "Ray of Frost" and offers only a little bit more aoe dmg. "Steal Time" feels more stronger on the cc part as on the dmg aoe part. "Repel" with spell mastery is nice for the cc cone effect, less for the dmg.
Seems the good stuff is way to late like "Shard of the Endless Avalanche" and "Sudden Storm". Overall I wish the would give this class a mini "Ice Storm" encounter power. Considering you need to fight so many minion groups it would not surprise me if people abandon this class in the first 20 lvls.................
xaleendarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited March 2013
I played a wizard this week end from level 1 to 41, and I found it very fun to play. It is a very tactical class to play, very powerful when correctly played, but very demanding. Except for the magic missile, every spell has control effect and should be used wisely.
If you want to increase your "Control feeling" you have to invest your feats point in the cooldown / action point gain so you can "spam" your spells, with some skill you can easily have two strong ennemies one you and kill them without being hit once (grasp, push, chill then grasp again and push again etc.). But the "KABOOM" feeling of the wizard come with the levels after 30 and the paragon path specialization. Arcane singularity clearly give you the feeling of being in control of awesome cosmic powers.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Yes, Chilling faster helps to control, but its no stun or immobilise,
Six stacks of chill does stun and immoblize enemies, so chilling faster actually dramatically helps improve your control.
And something people are probably missing, frozen enemies will break out faster if you damage them. You can freeze an enemy and they'll stay frozen for a few seconds if you leave them alone. It's extremely easy to keep a big guy in a pack frozen, deal with the smaller adds, then completely lock down the big guy while he's solo. By level 20 I could keep a single target basically locked down indefinitely using chill effects and entangle.
I leveled my control wizard to 50. Here's a few issues that I see with the class:
Control: Control Wizards aren't the best control class. Trickster Rouges are much more effective at CC with one ability than a Control Wizard with several.
DPS: Control Wizards aren't top dog here either. Rouges do more single target DPS, Great Weapon Fighters do more AoE. Control Wizard mechanics are also more complex. Unfortunately, the reward for mastering those mechanics is that you get closer to the effectiveness of the other classes, not surpass them (assuming comparable player skill).
Survivability: Worst of all the classes. Control Wizards can blink up to three times, but then its face tanking time. This is an especially big issue when fighting bosses that are immune to CC (at which point some CC spells don't even do damage). Combine this with the need to stand still while casting and we have a problem.
Suggestions:
- Allow Control Wizards to move while casting At-Will spells (perhaps at 75% normal speed).
- Review all Feats. For starters I’d make Battlewise grant 15/30/45% less threat. If I’m pulling threat as a Control Wizard then that’s either the tank’s fault or the developer’s fault, not mine.
- Give Control Wizards more AoE CC abilities and improve the effectiveness of existing AoE CC abilities (either by increasing their damage and/or increasing the effectiveness of their CC).
- Single target CC effects should become AoE effects when put in the Spell Mastery slot.
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche needs a huge amount of love. Getting this spell was my biggest disappointment in gaming history. The spell is awkward to use, has a huge cooldown, and an enormous fuse timer. All of this would be fine (and possibly good), except that the spell’s damage is pathetic. I’d quadruple its damage and also make the spell detonate instantly when in the Spell Mastery slot (regardless of how many targets are hit).
Comments
If other classes can do everything easier than on my wiz, then this game really is to easy.
Asolar stil looking for pants
Any suggestions?
1) Which spell do I put in my tab
2) What do I want to focus on, CC or Damage
3) Which way do I want to do it (Cold powers or Arcane or Combination).
I spent some time yesterday in dungeons playing with those choices.
Arcane:
You get 1 stack of Arcane Mastery when you complete 3 cycles of Magic Missile (you get the multi missile graphic)
Arcane spells become stronger the more stacks you have (Max 5 stacks). Holds last longer etc.
Cold:
You put a chill stack on a target when you hit with cold spells.
When a MOB has (i believe 5 or 6 doing this from memory) stacks they freeze.
Choosing the Tab Slot power:
Encounter Spells have a secondary description at the bottom of the description.
Some will do aoe damage others make them targetable or increase duration.
Example:
Repel turns into a cone attack in the tab slot.
If you are having trouble soloing take a look at your spell selections and see if you can move things around to better handle the situation.
Good luck
Have no idea why people say this class is weak, ice chill on tab alternated with force choke can lock down any enemy full stop, actually used enfeeblement with that combo for a long time till I got shield and smashed my way through the quests
Great fun cant wait till release...
well its nice and all, but where is my life ending KABOOM i want :P
Its called Ice Knife... I have hit for 4.3k with mine...Thats a pretty big KABOOM...
This is the Control Wizard. The War Wizard, which is the kaboom guy that you want, is not out yet.
But yea, "CC is okay" was my discription, and when I read this back I thought that really a CONTROL wizard should be epic at CC. There is a Control Paragon set of Feats, and it occures to me that there really should be more control boosting feats here. Most feats seem to be self survival (eg; teleport bonuses)or damage bonus on chilled, or damage debuff(fine with that i suppose), with only some very weak actual control orientated feats, usually around adding or improving chill stacks. Yes, Chilling faster helps to control, but its no stun or immobilise, the only real benefitial feats I see to stunning and immobilising is Alacrity, and thats only 2.5seconds off the recharge of 2 spells (maybe it should affect Steal Time, or similar stunning/immobilsing/knocking prone spell). I think this Paragon tree could do with some buffing to Control.
Hey, I could be wrong, I have no idea if this would make Control Wizard OP at high levels, but I figure buffing the Control abilities through the control paragon would be safest, boosting durations of stuns/immobilsations, more recharge reductions on control spells, etc. Then if it over controlling, the Wizard is nerfed in damage because he didnt go into the damage Paragons. Choices. Do I want to deal good damage with some control, or increased control and do abit of damage, choices are always fun to play and see.
Anyways, just my ramblings, either way, I have my fingers crossed for this game;D
The control wizard was a blast to play in PvP but PvE, well I don't know. Solo play into the 20th it was very easy, boss npc never had a real chance with all the cc going but every group encounter was very tedious compared vs. GWF & Cleric.
The aoe/cone powers outside of daily powers feel very luckluster early on, the first one "Conduit of Ice" just plain sucks. "Chilling Cloud" has a very hard stand against dmg from "Magic Missile" and utility from "Ray of Frost" and offers only a little bit more aoe dmg. "Steal Time" feels more stronger on the cc part as on the dmg aoe part. "Repel" with spell mastery is nice for the cc cone effect, less for the dmg.
Seems the good stuff is way to late like "Shard of the Endless Avalanche" and "Sudden Storm". Overall I wish the would give this class a mini "Ice Storm" encounter power. Considering you need to fight so many minion groups it would not surprise me if people abandon this class in the first 20 lvls.................
Part 1: NW-DMFKR9RPL http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?427711-Brunnen-des-Lichts-Teil-1
Part 2: NW-DLBTN8W28 http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?444281-Brunnen-des-Lichts-Teil-2
Icewind Dale campaign Osthafen sehen & sterben (German)
NW-DMC3IOWAE http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?477201-Osthafen-sehen-amp-sterben
If you want to increase your "Control feeling" you have to invest your feats point in the cooldown / action point gain so you can "spam" your spells, with some skill you can easily have two strong ennemies one you and kill them without being hit once (grasp, push, chill then grasp again and push again etc.). But the "KABOOM" feeling of the wizard come with the levels after 30 and the paragon path specialization. Arcane singularity clearly give you the feeling of being in control of awesome cosmic powers.
Six stacks of chill does stun and immoblize enemies, so chilling faster actually dramatically helps improve your control.
And something people are probably missing, frozen enemies will break out faster if you damage them. You can freeze an enemy and they'll stay frozen for a few seconds if you leave them alone. It's extremely easy to keep a big guy in a pack frozen, deal with the smaller adds, then completely lock down the big guy while he's solo. By level 20 I could keep a single target basically locked down indefinitely using chill effects and entangle.
Control: Control Wizards aren't the best control class. Trickster Rouges are much more effective at CC with one ability than a Control Wizard with several.
DPS: Control Wizards aren't top dog here either. Rouges do more single target DPS, Great Weapon Fighters do more AoE. Control Wizard mechanics are also more complex. Unfortunately, the reward for mastering those mechanics is that you get closer to the effectiveness of the other classes, not surpass them (assuming comparable player skill).
Survivability: Worst of all the classes. Control Wizards can blink up to three times, but then its face tanking time. This is an especially big issue when fighting bosses that are immune to CC (at which point some CC spells don't even do damage). Combine this with the need to stand still while casting and we have a problem.
Suggestions:
- Allow Control Wizards to move while casting At-Will spells (perhaps at 75% normal speed).
- Review all Feats. For starters I’d make Battlewise grant 15/30/45% less threat. If I’m pulling threat as a Control Wizard then that’s either the tank’s fault or the developer’s fault, not mine.
- Give Control Wizards more AoE CC abilities and improve the effectiveness of existing AoE CC abilities (either by increasing their damage and/or increasing the effectiveness of their CC).
- Single target CC effects should become AoE effects when put in the Spell Mastery slot.
- Shard of the Endless Avalanche needs a huge amount of love. Getting this spell was my biggest disappointment in gaming history. The spell is awkward to use, has a huge cooldown, and an enormous fuse timer. All of this would be fine (and possibly good), except that the spell’s damage is pathetic. I’d quadruple its damage and also make the spell detonate instantly when in the Spell Mastery slot (regardless of how many targets are hit).