This will be completely out of the line of 4e gameplay mechanics. Although the game is not based on 4e mechanics, it still tries to mask it.
The whole 4e thing kinda goes out the window when they take a class that originally has the potential to use 3 different AOE powers (Cloud of Daggers, Scorching Burst, and Thunderwave at-will for lvl 1), and reduces it to the availability of 2 single-target powers.
I think we're at a point with the game where it is more important to make it a fun and balanced mmorpg, rather than staying true to a pen and paper turn based game.
In my opinion, the force of Neverwinter comes from the Campaign Setting of Forgotten Realms, not because its 4e.
However, I do understand your point. The problem for me was that the Control Wizard felt very underwhelming at lvl 1-30 compared to my experience with the Fighter, the rogue and the cleric. In particular with AOE, so i was thinking of ways to possibly improve upon this.
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dollahzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Yeah, I think the game was designed to pay respect to 4e but not be an exact copy. If you want to play D&D 4e you can still do that pen and paper style.
The Control Wizard does get better later on when you have access to all those feats. I still think we could use a bit more AOE though aswell, hence my suggestions on the first page.
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kwsapphireMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 671Arc User
edited March 2013
I'm excited to see the control durations extended, but as others have stated: I didn't have problems soloing my control wizard to L20. I don't know if the game gets substantially harder after that, but I wouldn't say the CW needs to be "carried". I would also love more AoE, especially since the cleric gets an AoE mez, but I still wouldn't call the CW anything close to underpowered.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Yeah...no...I'm still of the opinion they need to make it so Arcane Mastery stacks show up as a meter, and changing Spell Mastery so that you hit tab then hit any of your three slotted powers to use the Spell Mastery version. Though you'd lose the extra power. Unless they made it so if you just hit tab it set off the power slotted into it. But if you held it down then hit one of the encounter powers it used that one instead.
However, I do understand your point. The problem for me was that the Control Wizard felt very underwhelming at lvl 1-30 compared to my experience with the Fighter, the rogue and the cleric. In particular with AOE, so i was thinking of ways to possibly improve upon this.
First off, since larger mobs are very resistant to control-effects, it is really only trash-mobs who gets affected.
So a force push, low cd would mean that you can effectively spam-lock one trash mob. Does not mean much when you got another 8 on your case. But it does mean that you can shift around mobs on the battlefield. Now, I have never played DnD, I was more an Eon and Drakar & Demoner PnP. So I am sorry if I break "that is not DnD" rule here. But to me, AoE are not fun. Dailies yes, addition of buffs to dmg and controlling effects, yes. But actually base most of your dmg and actual control effects of AoE is better suited for those that enjoy the WoW mode of gameing.
So that is why I suggested single mob low cd control that shifts around the battlefield. A rogue low on health: The CW blows away some of the dps, pulls some towards the fighters aggro-abilities, and freezes some others. To me, this is a fun control-class. Dmg is not my main concern, control is. And if all I then have to focus on is waiting on CD for those abilities, it just feels to compartmentalized.
Now dont get me wrong, I like the class as is, and the addition of longer stuns will make it usefull to the group. But what I do NOT want is more AoE, there is almost too much already.
GWF is a good aoe character. That is basically all he does. And AoE control-effects are the clerics domain. Lets try for individuality here, not making the same character 5 times.
Now I know that 99% are not gonna get this, but still felt I had to aleast try to fight the dumbing down of a class mechanic.
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megatenistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
As long as my wizard will look and act like this, I'm happy:
"All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening." - Alexander Woollcott
Well I hope the changes work fairly well.....it was irritating to be anchored while you did everything....also the effects lasting 1 second was totally lame as well......almost as lame as the area of effect powers doing 1 to 2 points of damage in the area of effect.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
What happened to his hand? Why is it growing out of his armpit?
IIRC from that part of the movie, that arm belongs to one of his wizard cohorts who sided with him for the final battle. Jeremy Irons is simply doing his pose of awesomeness.
....yes, I like the movie....don't judge me
"All the things I really like to do are either illegal, immoral, or fattening." - Alexander Woollcott
On top of that where's Sleep? Or Color Spray? Or Stinking Cloud? Or Mirror Image? Or Wall of Force? Or Bigby (Insert type of hand here.)? Or the Prismatic's?
Instead there's eight bloody Ice spells!
I hope these classic D&D spells (including web) are in the game at some point, that would be awesome.
We've heard your feedback about the Control Wizard's lack of control. We're going to be working on several changes for him over the next few weeks. Most notably, the first change will be a pretty sizable increase on the duration for all of his control powers. This change will not affect PVP, so in PVP your control powers will still be at their current duration. I look forward to seeing you all in Beta Weekend 3!
Your willingness to address players concerns and your separation of PVP & PVE mechanics and not taking the easy road of dumbing down PVE to balance PVP has earned you another founder purchase.
I don't know about you guys, but I prefer a more... primal style of magic. Sure, the giant ice blast and arcance singularity are nice, but nothing beats the feeling of bringing down a magic lightnin bolt on your foe, or incinerating dozens of enemies at once. If they could keep the control wiz play style, and make a sorceror version with fire and lightning instead of ice and arcane, that would simply be AMAZING Then it could be set up so the control wiz is good for single-to-few target abilities, and the sorceror could be used for mass murder of many enemies at once.
Longer durations will be nice, but the class also needs more of their powers to be AOE, including at least one AOE CC like the cleric power.
agreed and some sleep or dispel spells and more AOE, like meteor storm etc.. summon minion or undead is nice to help in battle , grease is fun too on bosses
DDO has a excellent spellcaster spell choice
probably one of the best of any MMO, u can have 10 different menus of 10 spells and variations
COME WITH ME !
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oliinMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
GWF is a good aoe character. That is basically all he does. And AoE control-effects are the clerics domain. Lets try for individuality here, not making the same character 5 times.
Wait ... why is AoE control the domain of the 'healing' class and not the 'control' class in your mind?
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doctorcomicsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't know about you guys, but I prefer a more... primal style of magic. Sure, the giant ice blast and arcance singularity are nice, but nothing beats the feeling of bringing down a magic lightnin bolt on your foe, or incinerating dozens of enemies at once. If they could keep the control wiz play style, and make a sorceror version with fire and lightning instead of ice and arcane, that would simply be AMAZING Then it could be set up so the control wiz is good for single-to-few target abilities, and the sorceror could be used for mass murder of many enemies at once.
The Wizard gets lightning spells starting at level 30 as part of his paragon path, and the Warlock class, which is not in game yet but which is in progress, will have fire. No sorcerer, but hopefully the Warlock will do it for you.
pyrophoriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Hopefully there will be choices later on for what Paragon path we can take. If it was only one, it wouldn't have greyed out 'Paragon Power', would it? It would always be the same abilities, regardless.
Man, I can see that this game is just going to get better and better. I have serious issues deciding on what I want to play on release. I will probably stick with the GWF if they work like I think they will, but I really like ALL of the other classes a lot too, except the Guardian Fighter. Not real big on the shield mechanic sacrificing movement ability. Wooooo hoooo COME ON BETA WEEKEND 3 ALREADY!
The Wizard gets lightning spells starting at level 30 as part of his paragon path, and the Warlock class, which is not in game yet but which is in progress, will have fire. No sorcerer, but hopefully the Warlock will do it for you.
Oh ok, In the last BW, I didn't have time to get to any paragon abilities, so
I guess I missed out on a few things oh well
agreed and some sleep or dispel spells and more AOE, like meteor storm etc.. summon minion or undead is nice to help in battle , grease is fun too on bosses
DDO has a excellent spellcaster spell choice
probably one of the best of any MMO, u can have 10 different menus of 10 spells and variations
The problem with *this* is that the combat in this game is a bit more 'action'. In order for that style of combat to work well, you need a *smaller* "hotbar", not a larger one.
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corloc1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited March 2013
Good to hear you will be working on the Wizard abilities.
Are you looking into making more CC's available at bosses?
And i've seen so many post on his "after dodge" stance, i know this is just cosmetic stuff, be he looks so silly!
Last, i have writen about this before, are there a chance that the "apperance" of the Elven male could get a bit more "buff" or nobel looking, he looks shady and tbh a bit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> atm.
Loved the Beta looking forward to a great and long lasting playing experience
Corloc "The Mad"
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asumadofaeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited April 2013
As a CW...which race would you choose? Elf or half-elf...I am leaning towards an elf because of that +1% to critical hits. I just checked out the Wiki, but I am still torn...
Comments
The whole 4e thing kinda goes out the window when they take a class that originally has the potential to use 3 different AOE powers (Cloud of Daggers, Scorching Burst, and Thunderwave at-will for lvl 1), and reduces it to the availability of 2 single-target powers.
I think we're at a point with the game where it is more important to make it a fun and balanced mmorpg, rather than staying true to a pen and paper turn based game.
In my opinion, the force of Neverwinter comes from the Campaign Setting of Forgotten Realms, not because its 4e.
However, I do understand your point. The problem for me was that the Control Wizard felt very underwhelming at lvl 1-30 compared to my experience with the Fighter, the rogue and the cleric. In particular with AOE, so i was thinking of ways to possibly improve upon this.
The Control Wizard does get better later on when you have access to all those feats. I still think we could use a bit more AOE though aswell, hence my suggestions on the first page.
You might suck at level 1, but you'll rip by level nine! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMLcy86bZNw
-Rachel=
So a force push, low cd would mean that you can effectively spam-lock one trash mob. Does not mean much when you got another 8 on your case. But it does mean that you can shift around mobs on the battlefield. Now, I have never played DnD, I was more an Eon and Drakar & Demoner PnP. So I am sorry if I break "that is not DnD" rule here. But to me, AoE are not fun. Dailies yes, addition of buffs to dmg and controlling effects, yes. But actually base most of your dmg and actual control effects of AoE is better suited for those that enjoy the WoW mode of gameing.
So that is why I suggested single mob low cd control that shifts around the battlefield. A rogue low on health: The CW blows away some of the dps, pulls some towards the fighters aggro-abilities, and freezes some others. To me, this is a fun control-class. Dmg is not my main concern, control is. And if all I then have to focus on is waiting on CD for those abilities, it just feels to compartmentalized.
Now dont get me wrong, I like the class as is, and the addition of longer stuns will make it usefull to the group. But what I do NOT want is more AoE, there is almost too much already.
GWF is a good aoe character. That is basically all he does. And AoE control-effects are the clerics domain. Lets try for individuality here, not making the same character 5 times.
Now I know that 99% are not gonna get this, but still felt I had to aleast try to fight the dumbing down of a class mechanic.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
EDIT:
<was j/k>
IIRC from that part of the movie, that arm belongs to one of his wizard cohorts who sided with him for the final battle. Jeremy Irons is simply doing his pose of awesomeness.
....yes, I like the movie....don't judge me
I hope these classic D&D spells (including web) are in the game at some point, that would be awesome.
Your willingness to address players concerns and your separation of PVP & PVE mechanics and not taking the easy road of dumbing down PVE to balance PVP has earned you another founder purchase.
agreed and some sleep or dispel spells and more AOE, like meteor storm etc.. summon minion or undead is nice to help in battle , grease is fun too on bosses
DDO has a excellent spellcaster spell choice
probably one of the best of any MMO, u can have 10 different menus of 10 spells and variations
Wait ... why is AoE control the domain of the 'healing' class and not the 'control' class in your mind?
The Wizard gets lightning spells starting at level 30 as part of his paragon path, and the Warlock class, which is not in game yet but which is in progress, will have fire. No sorcerer, but hopefully the Warlock will do it for you.
Seven Against Thay: An RP-Focused Guild for all Races and Classes
I guess I missed out on a few things
The problem with *this* is that the combat in this game is a bit more 'action'. In order for that style of combat to work well, you need a *smaller* "hotbar", not a larger one.
Are you looking into making more CC's available at bosses?
And i've seen so many post on his "after dodge" stance, i know this is just cosmetic stuff, be he looks so silly!
Last, i have writen about this before, are there a chance that the "apperance" of the Elven male could get a bit more "buff" or nobel looking, he looks shady and tbh a bit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> atm.
Loved the Beta looking forward to a great and long lasting playing experience
Corloc "The Mad"
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Neverwinter_Wiki