I would love to see more at-will powers for the Control Wizard. Specifically another Force-Based at-will ability.
I'd kind of like to make an All-Arcane Control Wizard, with no Cold effects at all, just to see how it feels.
-Rachel-
Great Weapon Fighter tanks? Who are you kidding? Cleric tanks. They draw -all- the aggro.
0
pyrophoriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I completely agree that full speed while fighting would be insanely broken, but combat movement while using At-Wills should be slowed down to keep things balanced. Full on rooting for a class like the Control Wizard is just a little much. The original trailer had movement and it looked super fun to play, not saying to give us that back, just something similar with a slowed down movement, like typing /++walk while in combat..
We've heard your feedback about the Control Wizard's lack of control. We're going to be working on several changes for him over the next few weeks. Most notably, the first change will be a pretty sizable increase on the duration for all of his control powers. This change will not affect PVP, so in PVP your control powers will still be at their current duration. I look forward to seeing you all in Beta Weekend 3!
Awesome you guys rock!!
My opinion, you really need 2 sets of combat 1 for PvP and one for PvE.
Pvp combat severely takes away form strategy and control in PvE dungeon play and vise versa. If you attempt to Balance one the other suffers greatly and then you have sad pandas sitting on one side of the fence or the other so great first step with the CW!!!
Making current abilities viable for PvP and tweaking them for more control for PvE is a HUGE step in the right direction and also a area where many other MMO's have failed hard! Great Job Cryptic team!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
I'm probably not the only one praying for this, but.. Can we move while doing out At-Wills again? That was the highlight of the previous Control Wizard trailer and was hoping it would still be that way for this one. Was just devastating to see that it wasn't there, and surely not the only one. I know there is a kiting issue there, but come on. The Control Wizard is still super squishy and any bit of survivability helps out in the long run. It doesn't have the heals of the Cleric or the placates of the Rogue, it could use a little something something like being able to move.
Aye,praying for this also. By rooting the characters down, may as well have made it yet another tab tab cycle cycle drink cup of tea with other hand style gameplay. well... no it's not that bad... but it did dampen The action feel that was one of the main attractions I first had for this game.
Throughout the beta, I just felt a lot more trapped than I really thought an action style mmo should have. To complement the locked mouse style gameplay, I thought you had it right the first time.
2. Change the class mechanic so you can track your arcane mastery charges
Arcane Mastery is seen as a buff under your character panel at the top left of the screen, with the number of stacks you have shown as a number on the bottom right of that buff icon.
We've heard your feedback about the Control Wizard's lack of control. We're going to be working on several changes for him over the next few weeks. Most notably, the first change will be a pretty sizable increase on the duration for all of his control powers. This change will not affect PVP, so in PVP your control powers will still be at their current duration. I look forward to seeing you all in Beta Weekend 3!
you know your really ruining your reputation here, people are going to start thinking you actually listen to them lol.
Glad to hear about the changes, and like that you separate pvp and pve, just really hoping some areas at-least are mandatory pvp
I found the wiz to be faily playable, but I don't think i got past level..18 or something (should have written this stuff down). there was an encounter power, a icy whirlwind that would do aoe damage with chill. Encounter power then frost ray. it worked fairly well for multiple mobs, but the problem I had with it was the target of the encounter power would die REALLY fast, killing my AOE far too soon. I would much rather have it do less damage to the main target with boost damage to the environs.
I also found that I would have to switch out powers before boss fights, which is totally not a big deal. there were a couple of times where I forgot to switch back from my solo build to the group build before starting a dungeon, and would have to stand around chatting "wait wait" while switching..then running along after the corpse trail. Thankfully I didn't forget to spec for single target before a boss fight. I guess it would not be a big issue if you did forget, just would focus on the adds more when they come and settle for the fight taking longer. It was really annoying how almost all my CC abilities would not work on boss fights, it made me feel useless at cc, and I couldn't cc large numbers of adds either. you really needed to save up daily powers for adds/getting swarmed. Thankfully I did not run into a situation where i had to fight another large group of mobs before my daily recharged.
All in all i found the wiz pretty fun. I rolled a guardian to see another flavor of combat, and did not get very far with him, but in the beginning i found the fighter to be far more dependent on potions than the wizard was, but that could be that my playstyle is suited more to ranged DPS than melee. It wasn't a drawback, just a slighty different playstyle, as I found that my wizard wound up selling lots of healing potions ( i think i had something like 50 of the first tier ones if not more on the wizard at one point, but hovered around 15 with the fighter..but he was really lowbie, i don't think i even unlocked his heal encounter) anywho keep it up, I am (im)patiently waiting for next weekend!
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kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Never played a Wiz in the beta, but did read a lot of people complain about it.
Great news to see somethings getting changed based on the feedback!
Even greater news is that you've chosen to make changes to PvE that wont affect PvP - and hopefully vice-versa.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited March 2013
Changes to PvE without PVP being affected is almost mandatory with a control class. However, I really want to see some changes to the synergy between frost and arcane stacks, so we can use both powersets and still "build" off of the same powers. It's vital this be done, honestly, because no other class has half of their abilities not lending power to the others.
Analogy: Divine clerics don't build divine power on attacks or buffs, but just on heals.
It's just not going to be class viable to have these separate mechanics independent of each other.
0
doctorcomicsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We've heard your feedback about the Control Wizard's lack of control. We're going to be working on several changes for him over the next few weeks. Most notably, the first change will be a pretty sizable increase on the duration for all of his control powers. This change will not affect PVP, so in PVP your control powers will still be at their current duration. I look forward to seeing you all in Beta Weekend 3!
This is great news. Thank you so much. And I applaud the separation between PvE and PvP.
Sounds awesome, too bad it's 1 week till new beta weekend
Anyway it's nice to know that CW will get rebalanced, his control was really way too weak. Well, beta exists for this reason, it's not really that amazing that devs fix the stuff that people complain abut
Also I wonder how will the 'raw' GWF work next week - will he be OP (too much dmg), or UP (too few dmg). This may really be tricky, because depending on his damage/toughness ratio, either he or rogue may become 'useless'(both are damage dealers, right?)
i really hope you new wizards out there learn when to and when NOT to use that aoe pushback. I dont know how many times i saw mobs knocked into a room full and aggro'd the whole lot. Also, when a tank has monster(s) attention no need to knock them all over the room!
[SIGPIC] KREETURE [/SIGPIC]
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xaralleiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 101Arc User
edited March 2013
Oh so maybe I won't give up on the control wizard afterall. I was pretty frustrated at the lack of control of the class. I felt like I was attacking and teleporting all over the place because the control was so bad there was little point to using it. I expect to teleport a bit, but the constant attack-tele-attack-tele-attack thing was pretty tedious. I wish you'd consider more AoE abilities as well given the game's tendency toward having packs of mobs rather than single mobs. An AoE snare at the very least.
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pyrophoriaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Really did have a lot of fun with the Control Wizard, though being one of the people who were concerned with the lack of control the class actually had. I was only able to permanently lock down one target, and even then it didn't apply to things like dungeon bosses or things that resisted everything I did. These changes make me more than happy to try it out again during the next weekend. Magic will be flung around while not wearing pants! AHA!
Agreed... I think the best way to make this work would be: 10% movement speed while using abilities (akin to the 5 foot step in D&D).
Allow them to move based on there at wills, keep the encounter/daily's rooted as they are more powerful, that said MM animation is way long you start to cast and the mobs are on you before you can get the animation finished + the fact that MM belongs (suggested to the War WIzard PH4thEd) replace with cloud of daggers at will light AoE to help deal with trash mobs and would help with damage evasion.
Longer durations will be nice, but the class also needs more of their powers to be AOE, including at least one AOE CC like the cleric power.
I personally didn't have a problem with the control aspect since with proper teleportation and movment the Control Wiz felt really powerful but I agree it does lack in AOE damage and that was my biggest fault with the class.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Character is what a man is in the dark
Can we get an animation update too so they aren't always standing there with their fingers extended? :-D
thanks for making changes based on the feedback!
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dollahzMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I guess it really depends on your build. Im going to remake my Control Wizard next beta to test things for the wiki and to make use of some of the feats. We have some great feats to help teleport more often or fill up our action points pretty quickly. I didn't fully utilize these in the time I played.
Also It comes down to play style. I kepts switching from a AOE control build to a Nuke damage build and vice versa. Some players arent gonna like having to teleport around alot and freeze one or two targets... run around some more and freeze the others. They gonna want to just aoe control them. I think they do have some really good AOE you just need to learn how to use them.
Here is an idea for you guys:
1. Cast Conduit of Ice (Spell Mastery Version is a plus) (Tornado that applies chill stacks if mastered) (AOE damage 5% damage inc per stack of chill)
2. Drop Icy Terrain (AOE Instant immobile + add stacks of chill longer enemy stands in it. After 6 stacks targets freeze)
3. Teleport away from mobs
4. Cast Chill Cloud into cluster of mobs for chill stacks
5. Cast Icy Rays on any mobs that come at you.
I used that combo to AOE mobs down. It was fun. There are other combos as well. Just gotta work harder then other classes to achieve it, but I think that adds to the depth of the class. Although I'm all for making it easier. I cant wait to try that combo with the new PVE control durations. Also shield is nice for that instead of Icy Rays.
I didn't even mention all the feats I could use to increase damage/effectiveness.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Yeah but that means using the bloody Ice Spells. If I wanted to do that I could play WoW. Hell that's almost the current Frost Mage rotation spell by spell. Ice has been done to bloody death. Same with Fire. There's way more interesting spells available in the PhB. Instead we get Ice, Ice, Ice. Eights years of bloody ICE!
Where the hell is the Web spell? The bread and butter of a control wizard, and a perfect solution to complaints about the lack of AoE CC.
I did feel that this class lacked control, too. It can be made to work, but when you compare the effect of mediocre control to the effect of nuking... I was more useful to the team when blowing things up. I assume that eventually there will be a War Wizard, so if people are to choose Control, it needs to feel USEFUL. Otherwise why bring this Wizard along in party at the loss of an extra striker?
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
On top of that where's Sleep? Or Color Spray? Or Stinking Cloud? Or Mirror Image? Or Wall of Force? Or Bigby (Insert type of hand here.)? Or the Prismatic's?
Instead there's eight bloody Ice spells!
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wifeaggr0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
On top of that where's Sleep? Or Color Spray? Or Stinking Cloud? Or Mirror Image? Or Wall of Force? Or Bigby (Insert type of hand here.)? Or the Prismatic's?
Instead there's eight bloody Ice spells!
Agreed, plenty of control in that list, mirror could take or leave it, but some basics there Web and stinking cloud, yeah the prismatics would look eyecandy pretty too. If the ray of frost worked the same as the rangers precision in Dungeons and Dragons Online, target and line of sight multiple enemies this would also help with trash mobs.
Does say in the PHB4thEd that they do like to encase them in ice, but a bit more variety to disperse, pocket ect would be nice.
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bruddajokkaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 447Bounty Hunter
edited March 2013
Most of the Ice Spells have been altered in some way. Ray of frost just applies a slow, Icy Terrain always works like the Spell Mastery version.
Oh here's another one Evards Black Tentacles.
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wifeaggr0Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 16Arc User
mushizoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I have a thought on how to give the Control Wizard a bit more survivability/versatility and also help him deal better with AOE situations.
Making the Spell Mastery slot influence the Wizard's teleport/dodge mechanic.
For instance, if you've chosen an ability for your spell mastery that turns your single target spell into an aoe, then you would also gain a minor aoe-blast at your start location when you dodge away.
If you were using a snaring/rooting type power in your spell mastery slot, then your teleport/dodge could be imbued with a minor snare or root in aoe...
I have a thought on how to give the Control Wizard a bit more survivability/versatility and also help him deal better with AOE situations.
Making the Spell Mastery slot influence the Wizard's teleport/dodge mechanic.
For instance, if you've chosen an ability for your spell mastery that turns your single target spell into an aoe, then you would also gain a minor aoe-blast at your start location when you dodge away.
If you were using a snaring/rooting type power in your spell mastery slot, then your teleport/dodge could be imbued with a minor snare or root in aoe...
What are your thoughts on this ?
This will be completely out of the line of 4e gameplay mechanics. Although the game is not based on 4e mechanics, it still tries to mask it. Every class does gets few more than two utility powers, but they are never based on class specific feats like spell mastery.
EDIT:
Also in case you missed, there are feats at higher level which make it so that if mobs attack you, they get pushed back.
Comments
I'd kind of like to make an All-Arcane Control Wizard, with no Cold effects at all, just to see how it feels.
-Rachel-
Awesome you guys rock!!
My opinion, you really need 2 sets of combat 1 for PvP and one for PvE.
Pvp combat severely takes away form strategy and control in PvE dungeon play and vise versa. If you attempt to Balance one the other suffers greatly and then you have sad pandas sitting on one side of the fence or the other so great first step with the CW!!!
Making current abilities viable for PvP and tweaking them for more control for PvE is a HUGE step in the right direction and also a area where many other MMO's have failed hard! Great Job Cryptic team!
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Aye,praying for this also. By rooting the characters down, may as well have made it yet another tab tab cycle cycle drink cup of tea with other hand style gameplay. well... no it's not that bad... but it did dampen The action feel that was one of the main attractions I first had for this game.
Throughout the beta, I just felt a lot more trapped than I really thought an action style mmo should have. To complement the locked mouse style gameplay, I thought you had it right the first time.
Arcane Mastery is seen as a buff under your character panel at the top left of the screen, with the number of stacks you have shown as a number on the bottom right of that buff icon.
you know your really ruining your reputation here, people are going to start thinking you actually listen to them lol.
Glad to hear about the changes, and like that you separate pvp and pve, just really hoping some areas at-least are mandatory pvp
Now to do something about those pesky fingers...
I also found that I would have to switch out powers before boss fights, which is totally not a big deal. there were a couple of times where I forgot to switch back from my solo build to the group build before starting a dungeon, and would have to stand around chatting "wait wait" while switching..then running along after the corpse trail. Thankfully I didn't forget to spec for single target before a boss fight. I guess it would not be a big issue if you did forget, just would focus on the adds more when they come and settle for the fight taking longer. It was really annoying how almost all my CC abilities would not work on boss fights, it made me feel useless at cc, and I couldn't cc large numbers of adds either. you really needed to save up daily powers for adds/getting swarmed. Thankfully I did not run into a situation where i had to fight another large group of mobs before my daily recharged.
All in all i found the wiz pretty fun. I rolled a guardian to see another flavor of combat, and did not get very far with him, but in the beginning i found the fighter to be far more dependent on potions than the wizard was, but that could be that my playstyle is suited more to ranged DPS than melee. It wasn't a drawback, just a slighty different playstyle, as I found that my wizard wound up selling lots of healing potions ( i think i had something like 50 of the first tier ones if not more on the wizard at one point, but hovered around 15 with the fighter..but he was really lowbie, i don't think i even unlocked his heal encounter) anywho keep it up, I am (im)patiently waiting for next weekend!
Great news to see somethings getting changed based on the feedback!
Even greater news is that you've chosen to make changes to PvE that wont affect PvP - and hopefully vice-versa.
Analogy: Divine clerics don't build divine power on attacks or buffs, but just on heals.
It's just not going to be class viable to have these separate mechanics independent of each other.
This is great news. Thank you so much. And I applaud the separation between PvE and PvP.
Seven Against Thay: An RP-Focused Guild for all Races and Classes
This. This so much.
If you don't seperate PvE and PvP, then why even bother.
Sounds awesome, too bad it's 1 week till new beta weekend
Anyway it's nice to know that CW will get rebalanced, his control was really way too weak. Well, beta exists for this reason, it's not really that amazing that devs fix the stuff that people complain abut
Also I wonder how will the 'raw' GWF work next week - will he be OP (too much dmg), or UP (too few dmg). This may really be tricky, because depending on his damage/toughness ratio, either he or rogue may become 'useless'(both are damage dealers, right?)
Allow them to move based on there at wills, keep the encounter/daily's rooted as they are more powerful, that said MM animation is way long you start to cast and the mobs are on you before you can get the animation finished + the fact that MM belongs (suggested to the War WIzard PH4thEd) replace with cloud of daggers at will light AoE to help deal with trash mobs and would help with damage evasion.
I personally didn't have a problem with the control aspect since with proper teleportation and movment the Control Wiz felt really powerful but I agree it does lack in AOE damage and that was my biggest fault with the class.
Character is what a man is in the dark
thanks for making changes based on the feedback!
Also It comes down to play style. I kepts switching from a AOE control build to a Nuke damage build and vice versa. Some players arent gonna like having to teleport around alot and freeze one or two targets... run around some more and freeze the others. They gonna want to just aoe control them. I think they do have some really good AOE you just need to learn how to use them.
Here is an idea for you guys:
1. Cast Conduit of Ice (Spell Mastery Version is a plus) (Tornado that applies chill stacks if mastered) (AOE damage 5% damage inc per stack of chill)
2. Drop Icy Terrain (AOE Instant immobile + add stacks of chill longer enemy stands in it. After 6 stacks targets freeze)
3. Teleport away from mobs
4. Cast Chill Cloud into cluster of mobs for chill stacks
5. Cast Icy Rays on any mobs that come at you.
I used that combo to AOE mobs down. It was fun. There are other combos as well. Just gotta work harder then other classes to achieve it, but I think that adds to the depth of the class. Although I'm all for making it easier. I cant wait to try that combo with the new PVE control durations. Also shield is nice for that instead of Icy Rays.
I didn't even mention all the feats I could use to increase damage/effectiveness.
I did feel that this class lacked control, too. It can be made to work, but when you compare the effect of mediocre control to the effect of nuking... I was more useful to the team when blowing things up. I assume that eventually there will be a War Wizard, so if people are to choose Control, it needs to feel USEFUL. Otherwise why bring this Wizard along in party at the loss of an extra striker?
On top of that where's Sleep? Or Color Spray? Or Stinking Cloud? Or Mirror Image? Or Wall of Force? Or Bigby (Insert type of hand here.)? Or the Prismatic's?
Instead there's eight bloody Ice spells!
Agreed, plenty of control in that list, mirror could take or leave it, but some basics there Web and stinking cloud, yeah the prismatics would look eyecandy pretty too. If the ray of frost worked the same as the rangers precision in Dungeons and Dragons Online, target and line of sight multiple enemies this would also help with trash mobs.
Does say in the PHB4thEd that they do like to encase them in ice, but a bit more variety to disperse, pocket ect would be nice.
Oh here's another one Evards Black Tentacles.
Bring it on.
Making the Spell Mastery slot influence the Wizard's teleport/dodge mechanic.
For instance, if you've chosen an ability for your spell mastery that turns your single target spell into an aoe, then you would also gain a minor aoe-blast at your start location when you dodge away.
If you were using a snaring/rooting type power in your spell mastery slot, then your teleport/dodge could be imbued with a minor snare or root in aoe...
What are your thoughts on this ?
This will be completely out of the line of 4e gameplay mechanics. Although the game is not based on 4e mechanics, it still tries to mask it. Every class does gets few more than two utility powers, but they are never based on class specific feats like spell mastery.
EDIT:
Also in case you missed, there are feats at higher level which make it so that if mobs attack you, they get pushed back.