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Benefits to disarming traps?
senseijohn
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 90
Is there any benefit (xp, etc.) to disarming traps?
So far, I'm not very impressed. Other than the graphics, the game play seems circa 1990's. Will there be voice to the quest givers? Or even any sort of complex dialog?
This seems to make you VERY cookie cutter... from ability scores to choices... I can see people getting VERY bored with the class. Where's the swashbuckling rogue with rapier and dirk?
Heck... there isn't even a thief deity.
There seems to be no underlying story lines, etc.
So far, I'm not very impressed. Other than the graphics, the game play seems circa 1990's. Will there be voice to the quest givers? Or even any sort of complex dialog?
This seems to make you VERY cookie cutter... from ability scores to choices... I can see people getting VERY bored with the class. Where's the swashbuckling rogue with rapier and dirk?
Heck... there isn't even a thief deity.
There seems to be no underlying story lines, etc.
Post edited by senseijohn on
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As for the gameplay, I don't see how this is "1990s" at all. Action-combat MMOs are pretty recent. In the 90s, you had Everquest, and its slow paced, tab-target combat.
Voiceovers and dialog aren't really "gameplay".
Yes, the limited degree of character customization is disappointing. But it's unrealistic to expect everything from a new MMO. More classes will come in the future.
I don't really think there should be, either. Make the traps themselves important if you want to reward Rogue players.
DDO does trap disabling XP, and the net result is on most quests, everyone zergs ahead ignoring traps, while the Rogue lags behind to disable traps for XP.
Ah, good old PUG's :P
It would be way more fun if the traps were to hit harder so people actually had to be on guard...like in pen and paper DnD.
Exactly! I stopped disarming traps myself after just 5 or so. No point really. The traps might as well not be there.
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I haven't had the opportunity to use the foundry myself (other than playing quests others authored), but I'm assuming that the damage is adjustable, since they were actually more of a danger in the foundry quest than in the regular ones.
If that's true, then I'm looking forward to some foundry authors making some devious quests where traps are actually a threat. I can't wait to get my hands on the foundry and try things out.
Hopefully, someone with foundry editing experience can chime in and let us know if traps are customizable like that (if it's not a NDA violation of course).
Or...it could be I was just a low level for that quest; and the traps were pretty tough for me. I really don't know .
or you could make the traps bigger so noone can avoid them... therefor having a rougue in the group benefits. also disarming a trap should drop "trap" items... that can later be used for boss fights. set them up before starting and then lead bosses into them. i think that would be a very nice mechanic
That way it would easily scale with level and even hitpoints pool (so that everyone would have to be aware of them and Rogues would actually have reason to scout/disarm).
This isn't pen and paper. It will never be pen and paper. It should never be pen and freaking paper. Do you know why? Because we very much already have pen and paper. If that is the kind of game you want to play, please exercise your liberty and go do exactly that.
Big strong traps, requiring mandatory mechanic rogues in every party, would be a very jarring feature in an otherwise fluid, action-orriented MMO. What part of, "Okay everyone wait here while I scout ahead..." seems appropriate for the game you have all seen?
The problem here is that this would make taking a rogue mandatory. This could of course be alleviated in a number of ways:
-Consumables that can be used to detect nearby traps
-Traps are not on the map unless a Rogue is present
Seems pretty appropriate for a D&D based game to me. They should at least do more damage to make you think twice about just speeding your way thru a dungeon.
It's the way the game works and D&D has always been like.
Respectfully no. If you played before 3rd edition (yes I know it's now over 13 years) you'd see in tournament play and home play this was not so. POwerbuilding always existed however....
3rd ed made people think the mechanic of D&D *was* D&D instead of an option. The "powerbuild concept *is* D&D" mechanically speaking really "cemented" here.
But it allowed all classes to be with all races and no level caps so for hat I'm thankful.
For the book churning it caused which lead to this viewpoint and the crack which also was named "Prestige Classes" (and my book count total suggests I'm a former addict
I read that as striving to win and be your best. So I'm never surprised people aim for that, over the years, we come to have called that in the mmo world, min-maxers. I guess we could give the 1%'ers the same name.
As for traps they need to vary in damage, but always be considered dangerous in their environment. All classes have to have a way to deal with them, where Rouge's can deal with them the best. That gives a benifit for the rouge and it also allows groups without Rouges a path to success as well.
As for the traps with a boss, good idea. But not all traps should have to be in that scenario to be deadly. Traps, atmosphere, puzzles make legendary dungeons.
I would also like to hear from any of the Foundry makers about the type of traps. Do they have deadly traps or AOE traps? Acid fog stuff or immobilization traps. I look at traps as a way to control the battlefield. You can channel people into killing zones. They can be a nuisance or they can be deadly. If they are effectively deployed they can really put a hurt on the Party should they choose not to disarm them.
There are two problems. Either rogue are not needed because they slow down the group when it is easier to just run through the trap or the are essential since you can't take the damage which means you can't do the quest until you find one. Neither of these is good. In the first instance a rogue cannot get a group since they are more of a hindrance than benefit. Why have the class. In the second if you want to do something you don't want to wait hours until a rogue shows up. One solution is to make traps hurt but not deadly but as an old GM/DM I would suggest have inconvenience traps. Some examples :
1) you lose an extra treasure because it is blocked/destroyed/etc. when you trigger a trap.
2) The trap creates an alarm/ruckus that alerts enemies so the adventure is harder.
3) Routes are blocked by the trap being sprung or you have to go around because it is deadly. There has to be a longer/harder route.
4) Trap bonus exp, trap parts, trap crafting or a trap skill tree with increasing skills and rewards as you disable more. (this one may cause the wait for the rogue problem though).
5) Special trap/scouting scenarios. 3 dangerous and 1 safe path and a rogue can find the safest or make one safer.
6) Additional rogue skills.. Identify, read scripts, divine the path, whatever.
7) Group skills from rogue presence such as automatic trap alert or trap on the map if rogue detects it or improved group defense or damage from distraction by the rogue.
The idea is to make rogues fun but not essential, useless or overpowering but yet good to have in a group. Ask yourself, what would I like to do and why would I be in a group to do it.
I get your point and if you can't do them justice then perhaps not bother. But the purest and designer in me knows a way to make them awesome, which will slow the team down, which it is DnD, which is a good thing. But that most likely won't happen. So traps I guess at best can be little mines of nuisances, take some life away, keep the cleric awake. Maybe used as a dexterity challenge trying not to trigger as you fight.
and this.
If that is the case, then it detracts away from needing particular classes even further.
I used to like playing my rogue in EQ where I had to unlock doors and disarm traps for the raid, as well as drag corpses to the clerics for resurrections. It did happen occasionally that certain content was harder because we didn't have class X; not having a mage for Call of Hero etc. but not enough to ruin the gameplay.
:mad:
I disagree with this. To me the idea of dangerous traps adds to immersion, and increases the value of having a rogue in the party. I wouldn't mind seeing dungeons full of traps.