I didn't have the intention to play a drow, so it doesn't affects me directly; but now I'm more worried about how the next races or classes will be "marketed".
I think I can manage to wait 60 days to create a Drow.
I do plan to snag the 60 dollar pack as well. I want that horse XD Basically I want to give an armored horse to my Menzo Renegade and toss the spider to a regular Drow. Roleplay purposes ~smiles~
I was wanting to start both characters at the same time on release, but 60 days will pass quickly as I learn the game on other characters. It just means when I start the Drow I will play him that much better.
And for being a skewed poll. It looks like positives won by a lot. So we can lay to rest the Drow discussion and any arguments whether it was a bad or good business decision by cryptic.
I don't mean to pile but part of the problem with the poll is that the one "positive" answer was not even a positive one. "No, I will be spending the same as I planned on." could mean anything. If you were already on your guard about spending money or intended to buy stuff only on a case by case basis it could still apply to you even if you think that Cryptic handled this badly.
In my case I've been a Cryptic costumer for years now so stuff like this isn't new to me. I've seen worse (just wait till RPers and social players start getting chat banned by the wonderful automated moderation system Cryptic uses in all their games and Cryptic tells you to deal with it). I came in fully expecting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like this to happen. I just didn't think that not being able to create my main till two months after launch would be part of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I'd have to deal with.
So even though this decision affects me and I think that Cryptic handled this badly my honest answer to that poll (which I don't intend to vote on) would still be "No, I will be spending the same as I planned on". But I agree with anyone that isn't familiar with Cryptic that feels "wary" about giving money to them after this. I just happened to be on that boat long before this event.
I don't mean to pile but part of the problem with the poll is that the one "positive" answer was not even a positive one. "No, I will be spending the same as I planned on." could mean anything. If you were already on your guard about spending money or intended to buy stuff only on a case by case basis it could still apply to you even if you think that Cryptic handled this badly.
...
So even though this decision affects me and I think that Cryptic handled this badly my honest answer to that poll (which I don't intend to vote on) would still be "No, I will be spending the same as I planned on". But I agree with anyone that isn't familiar with Cryptic that feels "wary" about giving money to them after this. I just happened to be on that boat long before this event.
He actually makes a good point here from an interpretive point of view, and polls are so open to interpretation these days.
I honestly think the OP was not intending anything negative, and that the poll may not have come out the best . . . which is why I did my best to answer honestly from the answers given. The cool part is that with feedback such as this, we can make better polls in the future XD Though I agree that most polls are just mush, I still answer them as I do with those neat "answer this and post it on your profile" question surveys with random questions . . .
Okay I am officially bloody rambling so I am off to get some much needed sleep. But I shall part with a suggestion that the first answer be considered "No, I still intend to support and purchase items from the game"? I dunno . . . maybe my answer sucks too ~falls asleep~
He actually makes a good point here from an interpretive point of view, and polls are so open to interpretation these days.
I honestly think the OP was not intending anything negative, and that the poll may not have come out the best . . . which is why I did my best to answer honestly from the answers given. The cool part is that with feedback such as this, we can make better polls in the future XD Though I agree that most polls are just mush, I still answer them as I do with those neat "answer this and post it on your profile" question surveys with random questions . . .
Okay I am officially bloody rambling so I am off to get some much needed sleep. But I shall part with a suggestion that the first answer be considered "No, I still intend to support and purchase items from the game"? I dunno . . . maybe my answer sucks too ~falls asleep~
Definitely wasn't intending anything negative. Just apparently suck at making polls! Won't happen again forumites. Scouts honor.
This is a very flawed question. I am not at all happy that they are holding drow race to boost sales of their packs (they should be good enough to sell on their own merits), but it has nothing to do with how I will spend my money, investing on the profitability of the game.
This is a very flawed question. I am not at all happy that they are holding drow race to boost sales of their packs (they should be good enough to sell on their own merits), but it has nothing to do with how I will spend my money, investing on the profitability of the game.
We don't know that is why they are holding the drow race for 60 days for sure. But you know, you could try to corner them and ask them on your next show
Anytime I see something that feels like a cash grab to me I get wary. It won't change how I intend on paying for the game, but it might make me more cautious and I will wait a bit and see how things settle.
IMO if it wasn't a cash grab they'd be adding more things to the HotN pack to make it a more attractive purchase, rather than taking things away from those that don't buy it to make not getting it the unattractive option.
EDIT/PS: And I'd be willing to buy the race if it was sold individually, but I'm not willing to blow $200 on a pack full of things I don't need and which IMO have questionable value (such as the diamonds), just to get some semblance of access to drow in the form of a repackaed version of the race.
Has absolutely no bearing on my spending plans. I'm not a Drow fan (Halflings 4 Life!) so I can wait 60 days no problem. I still plan to buy character & bag slots, maybe some other cosmetic items depending on the options and the pricing and specialty pets if they have them, again depends on pricing.
There is a rumor floating around that I am working on a new foundry quest. It was started by me.
0
iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
They could have made races paid for entirely- many f2p games do that. They aren't even doing that- they're giving some people early access.
I don't see how this is a bad thing- if all you want is to play drow, wait two months. No big deal.
I'm not a drow fan anyway so it doesn't affect me. I had no intention of spending $200 for a race I didn't like and now it appears it was justified since draw will be available to everyone eventually.
They could have made races paid for entirely- many f2p games do that. They aren't even doing that- they're giving some people early access.
I don't see how this is a bad thing- if all you want is to play drow, wait two months. No big deal.
Sure, they could do a lot of things like time/energy limits we see in Perfect World and Forsaken World. But the thing is the sub-free model is evolving and there is a strong competitive element from games like Tera, Aion, Guild Wars 2, and TSW where core game features are offered and extras such as boosts, buffs, mounts, and cosmetics are offered.
They can do what they want because it's their game. Totally within their prerogative to do so. However, the landscape is very competitive and they could hampering the very benefit that sub-free is designed to provide.
Sure, they could do a lot of things like time/energy limits we see in Perfect World and Forsaken World. But the thing is the sub-free model is evolving and there is a strong competitive element from games like Tera, Aion, Guild Wars 2, and TSW where core game features are offered and extras such as boosts, buffs, mounts, and cosmetics are offered.
They can do what they want because it's their game. Totally within their prerogative to do so. However, the landscape is very competitive and they could hampering the very benefit that sub-free is designed to provide.
Time/energy limits actually limit gameplay- we aren't seeing that.
We're seeing exactly what GW2 and TSW (though, b2p games) have- boosts, buffs, mounts, cosmetics.
A race is a big cosmetic- but ultimately, it is a cosmetic. And- those games are all over 2 months old, so given that time, drow would be out for NWO anyway.
That's the ultimate thing here- drow isn't being held in a store, it's being delayed a little so people who have put down a whopping 200 bucks get two months early access to drow. In the end, people still get drow, and they still get them for free.
Time/energy limits actually limit gameplay- we aren't seeing that.
We're seeing exactly what GW2 and TSW (though, b2p games) have- boosts, buffs, mounts, cosmetics.
A race is a big cosmetic- but ultimately, it is a cosmetic. And- those games are all over 2 months old, so given that time, drow would be out for NWO anyway.
That's the ultimate thing here- drow isn't being held in a store, it's being delayed a little so people who have put down a whopping 200 bucks get two months early access to drow. In the end, people still get drow, and they still get them for free.
Yeah it's a big cosmetic, but then it's all mostly cosmetics. You're not wrong, but then again it's not about being right or wrong. It's how people feel and their perception. I can't really emphasize that strongly enough.
Cryptic didn't just do a pr blunder by restricting access to the Drow, which wasn't part of the founder packs by the way. That was added later because, from beta reports, there isn't much different than cosmetics between regular drow and the menzo.
The problem here is that cryptic has created two kinds of customers for release: the important ones that paid "a whopping $200" and everyone else, even the $60 customers, have a second class feel to them.
What I was trying to explain with the earlier post is that some sub-free games, like the ones I listed, have gone out of their way to make every account feel as important as the next regardless of how much money you've spent. Cryptic is sending the exact opposite message: Our important $200 customers are going to get special treatment and everyone else isn't.
It can be summarized in this way: It's not always what you say, but how you say it. Cryptic and PW has said it the wrong way. This is the time when in game development when you want everyone to feel special, included, and part of the event.
iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
Players make bad perceptions all their own- it doesn't matter what a company does, if some people decide they want to make an issue of something, they will, and they'll make it an issue to many other people too.
I'm well aware that we're in a world where people will get offended over how you word things and what you say to extreme levels- but, this is something that is also the case with all mmos.
This was the case with the mmos you've mentioned too- GW2 has had some ugly flame wars about how they lied about gear- which is now a big part of the game. It's had ugly flame wars about the world pvp, which does give geared/levelled players a big advantage even after years of them saying pvp wouldn't be gear related.
I'm sure if I'd paid enough attention- I could find huge blow ups in 'perception' from every game you've mentioned, probably every mmo released, period.
This is ultimately about perception- which the game company has very little say over. As someone who followed SWTOR heavily for years before release I know this full well, as 95% of rage threads about 'things the devs promised' were based on things devs hadn't even said, or taken out of context, or even were rumours started by another player. There was a lot of blame placed on the devs for making hype- hype that was entirely made by player's own expectations and had zilch to do with what devs said.
When it comes down to it- there is NOTHING they can do about player perception, and to say they should bend over backwards to attempt to please those that have their petty sensibilities offended by a bit of wording would make the game fail. After all- it's my perception that a game that caves every time people cry loud enough is going to have a bad reputation too.
They aren't sending a message that those who are paying and supporting the game have more value- people just have been wired recently to believe if at any time those who put up more money get more than those who don't pay a cent, it means the company is greedy and evil. The entitlement generation wasn't caused by Cryptic- but as a big company, they're ultimately doomed to be a target of the hatred of that generation.
Drow schmow, I want to know when they are going to add the Githzerai.
Through the teachings of Zerthimon, I have become stronger.
Hell yeah, Githzerai are my favorite D&D race of all time!
0
samuraikingsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
The amount of money I spend will depend on two things. What they have in the store that I want and how much money I can afford to spend.
How long I play their game will depend on two things. How fun the game is and how many things they "force" me to pay for.
Since I hate drows this particular incident doesn't matter to me, though being honest, if they were making Dwarfs a 2 month exclusive race with a special skin that is only buyable, you are **** right I would be pissed. And that is why the people who like drow are pissed, luckily I don't.
I do want to point one thing out though, this is not entirely cryptic's fault. I'm sure PWE has a big say in what gets cut from the game and resold in the market. That being said, a lot of PWE's games have held back some of the best gear(crafting materials needed to boost it) in the shop only. I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit more bull**** than the "drow fiasco" spills over into this game too.
All in all THIS incident doesn't affect what I spend and I will spend what I originally planned to until it affects me. At that time I will simply decide to keep playing or leave. Not spending money to support something you disagree with says way more than a forum post ever will.
Foundry Name: "Wolframs Last Stand" (@Holythirst)
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA
0
rohk007Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited March 2013
I see nothing wrong with having the drow not avail to all when the game releases. For one it means we will have alot less Drizzt clones running around to start the game. Also, I think its great for the people who got the $200 pack to have the perks and support the game development.
Comments
I don't really agonize about whether a game will, at some future point in time, get X amount of my entertainment budget.
"Fiasco" is not a very neutral word, nor is "wary."
I totally love the word "extrapolate" though....don't hear that one often enough in these poll debates!!
I do plan to snag the 60 dollar pack as well. I want that horse XD Basically I want to give an armored horse to my Menzo Renegade and toss the spider to a regular Drow. Roleplay purposes ~smiles~
I was wanting to start both characters at the same time on release, but 60 days will pass quickly as I learn the game on other characters. It just means when I start the Drow I will play him that much better.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't mean to pile but part of the problem with the poll is that the one "positive" answer was not even a positive one. "No, I will be spending the same as I planned on." could mean anything. If you were already on your guard about spending money or intended to buy stuff only on a case by case basis it could still apply to you even if you think that Cryptic handled this badly.
In my case I've been a Cryptic costumer for years now so stuff like this isn't new to me. I've seen worse (just wait till RPers and social players start getting chat banned by the wonderful automated moderation system Cryptic uses in all their games and Cryptic tells you to deal with it). I came in fully expecting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like this to happen. I just didn't think that not being able to create my main till two months after launch would be part of the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> I'd have to deal with.
So even though this decision affects me and I think that Cryptic handled this badly my honest answer to that poll (which I don't intend to vote on) would still be "No, I will be spending the same as I planned on". But I agree with anyone that isn't familiar with Cryptic that feels "wary" about giving money to them after this. I just happened to be on that boat long before this event.
He actually makes a good point here from an interpretive point of view, and polls are so open to interpretation these days.
I honestly think the OP was not intending anything negative, and that the poll may not have come out the best . . . which is why I did my best to answer honestly from the answers given. The cool part is that with feedback such as this, we can make better polls in the future XD Though I agree that most polls are just mush, I still answer them as I do with those neat "answer this and post it on your profile" question surveys with random questions . . .
Okay I am officially bloody rambling so I am off to get some much needed sleep. But I shall part with a suggestion that the first answer be considered "No, I still intend to support and purchase items from the game"? I dunno . . . maybe my answer sucks too ~falls asleep~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Definitely wasn't intending anything negative. Just apparently suck at making polls! Won't happen again forumites. Scouts honor.
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Gotta love a company's decision to change their plans after announcement and force consumers to not partake in their product for more then 60 days.
Character is what a man is in the dark
I bought the big package and I am not even interested in playing a Drow...(did think the spider was pretty awesome though
Nice ! I have Dwarf love...;)
We don't know that is why they are holding the drow race for 60 days for sure. But you know, you could try to corner them and ask them on your next show
I'd buy that for a dollar!!!
Were they doing unnatural things to it?
EDIT/PS: And I'd be willing to buy the race if it was sold individually, but I'm not willing to blow $200 on a pack full of things I don't need and which IMO have questionable value (such as the diamonds), just to get some semblance of access to drow in the form of a repackaed version of the race.
I don't see how this is a bad thing- if all you want is to play drow, wait two months. No big deal.
Sure, they could do a lot of things like time/energy limits we see in Perfect World and Forsaken World. But the thing is the sub-free model is evolving and there is a strong competitive element from games like Tera, Aion, Guild Wars 2, and TSW where core game features are offered and extras such as boosts, buffs, mounts, and cosmetics are offered.
They can do what they want because it's their game. Totally within their prerogative to do so. However, the landscape is very competitive and they could hampering the very benefit that sub-free is designed to provide.
I'm so hoping there will be a good illithid campaign with the Githzeri and the Githyanki.
Time/energy limits actually limit gameplay- we aren't seeing that.
We're seeing exactly what GW2 and TSW (though, b2p games) have- boosts, buffs, mounts, cosmetics.
A race is a big cosmetic- but ultimately, it is a cosmetic. And- those games are all over 2 months old, so given that time, drow would be out for NWO anyway.
That's the ultimate thing here- drow isn't being held in a store, it's being delayed a little so people who have put down a whopping 200 bucks get two months early access to drow. In the end, people still get drow, and they still get them for free.
Yeah it's a big cosmetic, but then it's all mostly cosmetics. You're not wrong, but then again it's not about being right or wrong. It's how people feel and their perception. I can't really emphasize that strongly enough.
Cryptic didn't just do a pr blunder by restricting access to the Drow, which wasn't part of the founder packs by the way. That was added later because, from beta reports, there isn't much different than cosmetics between regular drow and the menzo.
The problem here is that cryptic has created two kinds of customers for release: the important ones that paid "a whopping $200" and everyone else, even the $60 customers, have a second class feel to them.
What I was trying to explain with the earlier post is that some sub-free games, like the ones I listed, have gone out of their way to make every account feel as important as the next regardless of how much money you've spent. Cryptic is sending the exact opposite message: Our important $200 customers are going to get special treatment and everyone else isn't.
It can be summarized in this way: It's not always what you say, but how you say it. Cryptic and PW has said it the wrong way. This is the time when in game development when you want everyone to feel special, included, and part of the event.
I'm well aware that we're in a world where people will get offended over how you word things and what you say to extreme levels- but, this is something that is also the case with all mmos.
This was the case with the mmos you've mentioned too- GW2 has had some ugly flame wars about how they lied about gear- which is now a big part of the game. It's had ugly flame wars about the world pvp, which does give geared/levelled players a big advantage even after years of them saying pvp wouldn't be gear related.
I'm sure if I'd paid enough attention- I could find huge blow ups in 'perception' from every game you've mentioned, probably every mmo released, period.
This is ultimately about perception- which the game company has very little say over. As someone who followed SWTOR heavily for years before release I know this full well, as 95% of rage threads about 'things the devs promised' were based on things devs hadn't even said, or taken out of context, or even were rumours started by another player. There was a lot of blame placed on the devs for making hype- hype that was entirely made by player's own expectations and had zilch to do with what devs said.
When it comes down to it- there is NOTHING they can do about player perception, and to say they should bend over backwards to attempt to please those that have their petty sensibilities offended by a bit of wording would make the game fail. After all- it's my perception that a game that caves every time people cry loud enough is going to have a bad reputation too.
They aren't sending a message that those who are paying and supporting the game have more value- people just have been wired recently to believe if at any time those who put up more money get more than those who don't pay a cent, it means the company is greedy and evil. The entitlement generation wasn't caused by Cryptic- but as a big company, they're ultimately doomed to be a target of the hatred of that generation.
Through the teachings of Zerthimon, I have become stronger.
Hell yeah, Githzerai are my favorite D&D race of all time!
How long I play their game will depend on two things. How fun the game is and how many things they "force" me to pay for.
Since I hate drows this particular incident doesn't matter to me, though being honest, if they were making Dwarfs a 2 month exclusive race with a special skin that is only buyable, you are **** right I would be pissed. And that is why the people who like drow are pissed, luckily I don't.
I do want to point one thing out though, this is not entirely cryptic's fault. I'm sure PWE has a big say in what gets cut from the game and resold in the market. That being said, a lot of PWE's games have held back some of the best gear(crafting materials needed to boost it) in the shop only. I wouldn't be surprised if a little bit more bull**** than the "drow fiasco" spills over into this game too.
All in all THIS incident doesn't affect what I spend and I will spend what I originally planned to until it affects me. At that time I will simply decide to keep playing or leave. Not spending money to support something you disagree with says way more than a forum post ever will.
Foundry Map: Blacklake District
Type: Campaign, Story, Dungeon - 5 bosses, 1-2 players
Current State: Version 2.2 is up. Full release. Try it with code below.
Short Code: NW-DU2BES2WA