ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
The thing is, this isn't a choice by PWE.
The VAT applies to digital purchases as well as physical. In one way this is nice because unlike the United States your governments are getting into the 21st century and understanding there are things with value that we can't touch or hold. This means that property can be protected under the same laws as standard robery or gambling laws.
If the discussion of government protection of digital products in the US ever comes up the intelligent people in the room will say 'yeah that's nice but once they establish that they will then tax it.'
Bottom line is taxes aren't optional. There are a few online stores which don't charge tax directly which I use and it's stipulated very clearly in tax forms that people are still subject to paying tax on those products and mandates that people claim them. Regardless of whether people do or not it's still mandated and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that if a company chooses to not enforce tax regulations they could have legal action taken against them for aiding in tax evasion. It may not be worth it for the government to go after every single person who doesn't file the correct tax procedures but it can be very much worth it to take legal action against the retailers.
So PWE is not *choosing* to. Even if they didn't figure it in for the cost and essentially pay your taxes for you then you would still be legally obligated to file that value on your own taxes and pay it later.
However let's look at it another way, as an american citizen why should I pay more because your government, which should not effect me, imposes taxes on you? And then once the US catches up to the rest of the world and taxes for digital transactions is PWE going to be stuck lowering their prices for the US player base as well or are the US players going to have to pay more than Europeans?
Sorry but the fees have nothing to do with PWE so it's not fair or just to request that they take a pay loss or americans get a surcharge because of your country's actions. We can try to answer any questions on the fees but if you want the rates lowered that is entirely in the hands of the european governments.
The VAT applies to digital purchases as well as physical. In one way this is nice because unlike the United States your governments are getting into the 21st century and understanding there are things with value that we can't touch or hold. This means that property can be protected under the same laws as standard robery or gambling laws.
If the discussion of government protection of digital products in the US ever comes up the intelligent people in the room will say 'yeah that's nice but once they establish that they will then tax it.'
Bottom line is taxes aren't optional. There are a few online stores which don't charge tax directly which I use and it's stipulated very clearly in tax forms that people are still subject to paying tax on those products and mandates that people claim them. Regardless of whether people do or not it's still mandated and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that if a company chooses to not enforce tax regulations they could have legal action taken against them for aiding in tax evasion. It may not be worth it for the government to go after every single person who doesn't file the correct tax procedures but it can be very much worth it to take legal action against the retailers.
So PWE is not *choosing* to. Even if they didn't figure it in for the cost and essentially pay your taxes for you then you would still be legally obligated to file that value on your own taxes and pay it later.
However let's look at it another way, as an american citizen why should I pay more because your government, which should not effect me, imposes taxes on you? And then once the US catches up to the rest of the world and taxes for digital transactions is PWE going to be stuck lowering their prices for the US player base as well or are the US players going to have to pay more than Europeans?
Sorry but the fees have nothing to do with PWE so it's not fair or just to request that they take a pay loss or americans get a surcharge because of your country's actions. We can try to answer any questions on the fees but if you want the rates lowered that is entirely in the hands of the european governments.
Ok I understand this more clearly now, thankyou for the clarification.
My second question is this: Why is it that I can purchase goods online in USD, however not these founders packs? I've purchased games before with USD and played on EU servers no problem. Is this again to do with taxes and it's forced them to charge EU citizens EU currency (and thus tax on top)?
The vat problem should be handled by the marketing team. Why in other games I can purchase with euro's ?
World of tanks just yesterday i used euros to buy some gold.
The thing is not the VAT is the lameass marketing team that from the early days of this game has made blunder after blunder.
VAT problem my a.. in all the other games we got euros. I want to know how much i pay not to check the exchange rate everyday I buy something....
And I have quick checked blizzard store, guess what ? Euro
No more excuses please.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
Both of those questions would have to be answered by the Billing Team.
Only thing I know for sure is that regardless of which currency you pay in you will be subject to VAT.
Also aeroth001, are you sure you didn't mean to ask your first question differently? Currently all Europeans, including some who are not part of the Eu Union, are being forced to paying with Euros. This is a question I'm sure to pass one but honestly considering there's no difference in cost due to the currency it's one I don't quite understand.
The second question however makes perfect sense and I'll pass on, which is why I said as an american it doesn't make a bit of sense to built tax's into he product price.
However please keep things civil. Frustrations are understandable but tearing them a new one won't get anybody anywhere.
The vat problem should be handled by the marketing team. Why in other games I can purchase with euro's ?
World of tanks just yesterday i used euros to buy some gold.
The thing is not the VAT is the lameass marketing team that from the early days of this game has made blunder after blunder.
VAT problem my a.. in all the other games we got euros. I want to know how much i pay not to check the exchange rate everyday I buy something....
And I have quick checked blizzard store, guess what ? Euro
No more excuses please.
Just so you know, that is not handled by a marketing team. It is most likely handled by accounting or billing team depending on how the responsibilities are handled in Cryptic/PWE.
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adamchattawayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thank you so much for posting this on a gaming forum we will now all get right on fixing this horrible problem!...Oh wait the company/developers/ and other players all have ZERO control in this matter and you would need to take this up with your Government? No way, and this has already been stated about 100 times? No way, there's just no way someone would not take the time to look up this common info or check forums before posting such a thread...
I cant wait for the British EU referendum, im so voting to get out of this super taxing shat hole.
the british economy would suffer greatly if you leave eu. truts me I studied political science and have a degree in security and defence:)
The uk would loose huge benefits and the only gain will be of some politicians like nigel farage...
I agree the eu is far from perfect it has tons of problems but we can only fix the problems from inside not by running away. Europe needs to be united or it will be casted out by the globalization to a marginal role in the world.
Anyway this is offtopic back to the main problem at hand.
I am not in the euro zone and want euro. Just as a respons to ambisinister. I understand the issues at hand but I was in the impression they are a profesional corporation that do things like this all day long.
When you expand on a new market you use the currency of that market...Imagine going to buy potatoes in Paris and they will only accept russian rubles because they are from Russia....what do you do go to the bank and exchange euro tu rubles or just buy from the next shop that accepts euro ?
1.00 USD = 0.758100 EUR is the current exchange. The price for the second option should be 45 euros not 55. Can't see me ever buying this when we in europe are being ripped off.
America doesn't pay 20% tax. We don't pay VAT. I payed 0% tax in america we don't have tax on this stuff. You do, it is called VAT it is 20%. Like I said not sure where the extra 5% comes from, could be bad currency conversion could be a typo some where in the website code, could be the flying spaghetti monster hating Europeans and manipulating the conversion, I have no idea. And for the love of god please proof read what you write. It looks like a spastic 7 year old wrote it. Random question marks no other punctuation it is difficult to know for certain what you are saying.
I am amazed that this sort of abuse goes unchecked by Moderators. If this is a measure of the Neverwinter community god help us!
Easy solution: Don't buy anything until this exploitation ends. I know I won't.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
- W.E.H.
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jonsi81Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited February 2013
I bought the pack in the euro currency by clicking fast through paypal and have never been as in game purchase in my life. There are no taxes in my country on games or programs through the internet and i have always bought everything i buy on the internet in us dollars.
This redirecting and charging more for the pack then others is a violation on a person and propably some law too.
General settings.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I am amazed that this sort of abuse goes unchecked by Moderators. If this is a measure of the Neverwinter community god help us!
The guy was only stating a fact and he is right.
It was rude but it wasn't an infraction of the rules. In any case I made it absolutely clear the US does not pay tax for digital products yet. If I buy a comic book in a store I pay sales tax on it...if I buy a digital copy there's no sales tax. Yes our government really is that backwards
I am not in the euro zone and want euro. Just as a respons to ambisinister. I understand the issues at hand but I was in the impression they are a profesional corporation that do things like this all day long.
When you expand on a new market you use the currency of that market...Imagine going to buy potatoes in Paris and they will only accept russian rubles because they are from Russia....what do you do go to the bank and exchange euro tu rubles or just buy from the next shop that accepts euro ?
It's ridiculos.
Any country in the European Union uses the Euro. It may not be their in house currency but by claims stated by people on these forums it's as if the Euro doesn't exist.
Euro were created for international trading purposes and this is an international trade. I'm not seeing why there is an issue.
In some senses it's like the US and the metric system. The metric system means absolutely nothing to me. I can't visualize how far a kilometer is or tell you what a 1.4 meter tall man is. The only use of the metric system I have in my daily life is buying a 2 Liter of soda.
However whenever conducting a scientific experiment the metric system is always used. The metric system is the international standard and it's conformed to for simplicity sakes.
You might not know the value of a Euro, but in any case the value between a Euro and whatever other currency is static. It's a direct conversion and there is no gain or loss in that conversion. The loss is due to a fixed rate with a built-in tax.
If you are not in the European Union and are being redirected to a equo payment please post what nation you are in and I will pass it on.
1.00 USD = 0.758100 EUR is the current exchange. The price for the second option should be 45 euros not 55. Can't see me ever buying this when we in europe are being ripped off.
Europe is being ripped off by it's own VAT then. If you don't want to pay you won't have to, but understand that the fee is not imposed by PWE because you're european it's imposed by your countries because you're in the European Union.
I bought the pack in the euro currency by clicking fast through paypal and have never been as in game purchase in my life. There are no taxes in my country on games or programs through the internet and i have always bought everything i buy on the internet in us dollars.
This redirecting and charging more for the pack then others is a violation on a person and propably some law too.
I'll pass the question on but games absolutely should have a tax applied to them. Digital products are another matter but many other posters have also stated that they are very much used to paying VAT on digital purchases.
Rememer let's keep this on topic.
I really would like specific questions directed about the charge which includes your country and possibly specific examples of locations the VAT doesn't apply/excepts from the actual law that denotes why it doesn't apply.
'Why is there an additional 5%'
'Why do I have to pay in Euros when I live in Finland?'
'<digital product> didn't charge me a VAT Rate, why do you.'
Saying the fee is wrong isn't going to get any explanations so if you want questions ask the questions otherwise I will have nothing to escalate this to billing with and I'll end up having to let the matter drop.
Any country in the European Union uses the Euro. It may not be their in house currency but by claims stated by people on these forums it's as if the Euro doesn't exist.
Euro were created for international trading purposes and this is an international trade. I'm not seeing why there is an issue.
Some of the reactions to the Euro here are probably just, well, reactionary but there is a point to it.
The UK is in the European Union but is outside the Eurozone, the part of Europe that uses the Euro and so UK citizens forced to use the Euro are forced to incur a currency change charge. Imagine the reaction of Americans forced to pay with Canadian dollars ...
The level of VAT is settled on a national basis within Europe and the UK's Chancellor of the Exchequer, someone without any formal Economics qualification (except maybe that gained from a job folding towels), set it to 20%.
So in order to prevent a revolt of UK players the UK price of the various packs should really be as close as possible to the dollar price converted to pounds sterling with a 20% mark-up for VAT.
Superhero stories, done well, are about modern archetypes.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
Back to topic. Ambisinister yes I am a citizen of the EU. No the currency in my country is not the euro. Not all EU country's are in the eurozone. I'm from Romania.
But as a EU citizen I want to use euro when I purchase something from a international corporation.
It's about PW to show they're true colors nothing more. Why other can offer use to pay in euro's and PW cannot ? This really troubles me and the VAT answer is a terrible excuse.
If they cannot do it, fire the one that cannot and hire someone who can.
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adamchattawayMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It was rude but it wasn't an infraction of the rules. In any case I made it absolutely clear the US does not pay tax for digital products yet. If I buy a comic book in a store I pay sales tax on it...if I buy a digital copy there's no sales tax. Yes our government really is that backwards
Any country in the European Union uses the Euro. It may not be their in house currency but by claims stated by people on these forums it's as if the Euro doesn't exist.
Euro were created for international trading purposes and this is an international trade. I'm not seeing why there is an issue.
In some senses it's like the US and the metric system. The metric system means absolutely nothing to me. I can't visualize how far a kilometer is or tell you what a 1.4 meter tall man is. The only use of the metric system I have in my daily life is buying a 2 Liter of soda.
However whenever conducting a scientific experiment the metric system is always used. The metric system is the international standard and it's conformed to for simplicity sakes.
You might not know the value of a Euro, but in any case the value between a Euro and whatever other currency is static. It's a direct conversion and there is no gain or loss in that conversion. The loss is due to a fixed rate with a built-in tax.
If you are not in the European Union and are being redirected to a equo payment please post what nation you are in and I will pass it on.
Europe is being ripped off by it's own VAT then. If you don't want to pay you won't have to, but understand that the fee is not imposed by PWE because you're european it's imposed by your countries because you're in the European Union.
I'll pass the question on but games absolutely should have a tax applied to them. Digital products are another matter but many other posters have also stated that they are very much used to paying VAT on digital purchases.
Rememer let's keep this on topic.
I really would like specific questions directed about the charge which includes your country and possibly specific examples of locations the VAT doesn't apply/excepts from the actual law that denotes why it doesn't apply.
'Why is there an additional 5%'
'Why do I have to pay in Euros when I live in Finland?'
'<digital product> didn't charge me a VAT Rate, why do you.'
Saying the fee is wrong isn't going to get any explanations so if you want questions ask the questions otherwise I will have nothing to escalate this to billing with and I'll end up having to let the matter drop.
I'm English, i buy tons of game Online from EU and US, and guess what? this is the first game ive had to pay in Euros for, i should pay 126 pounds but you force me to pay 167 pounds, tell me, if it is euro who charges us in euros why does no one else?
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I'm English, i buy tons of game Online from EU and US, and guess what? this is the first game ive had to pay in Euros for, i should pay 126 pounds but you force me to pay 167 pounds, tell me, if it is euro who charges us in euros why does no one else?
Again, it has NOTHING to do with the currency. Plain and simple.
EDIT - Pootwaddle, as near as I can tell they merely feel the fee exists built in, which I have no idea if it is or is not. Nobody has mentioned an external fee or the cost of that fee.
Again, it has NOTHING to do with the currency. Plain and simple.
I re-subbed to SWTOR a few days ago i paid in pounds it was 15 dollars or 9 pounds that's about the right conversion rate so why do you charge me in euros and charge me an extra 40 pounds on top of my tax already? why can i pay 15 dollars for swtor but not 200 dollars for never winter tell me why are you forcing us to pay in euros and pay double tax?
SWTOR new expansion 12 pounds or 20 dollars, thats about right in conversion, why would neverwinter charge me 18 pounds in euros instead of 20 dollars or 12 pounds?
So how does PWE and don't tell me otherwise because this is the only bleeding company that does it, charge me 167 pounds instead of 126 pounds? if i can buy any other product in America and have it converted from dollars to the equivalent pounds why not neverwinter, are you trying to hide what this company is doing or what? because its some shady shady stuff.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
Might have something to do with this.
Goods ordered online from outside the EU
If you buy goods online from outside the EU for delivery to the UK, you'll have to pay Customs Duty and Import VAT on top of the purchase price if the goods are above a certain value - though Customs Duty is waived if the amount of duty payable is 9 pounds or less.
Some Internet sellers outside the EU have arrangements with the UK whereby you pay them the VAT that's due on the goods you're ordering. They then pay the VAT to their postal authority - which in turn pays it to HM Revenue & Customs. Note that these sellers must be authorised to do this. They'll have a special number that will be on the Customs Declaration. The declaration should also carry a message saying 'Import VAT pre-paid'. When this arrangement is used you won't be charged any import VAT or a Royal Mail handling fee when you get your parcel. Note that if the above procedures aren't followed properly you could end up losing the goods.
However, I don't know why they do or do not charge you for the VAT for sure. That is something Billing would have to answer specifically.
The only thing I can tell you is that the VAT applies to the UK regardless of whether you pay in pounds or in euros. That's what it comes down to.
That's the answer to the question. I can't be any clearer. While some of the legal mumbo jumbo goes way over my head the VAT does exist in the UK and the UK is subject to pay it regardless of which currency they use to pay for a product. You could pay in yen and still be subject to paying the Value Added Tax if it applies to the transaction.
However, I don't know why they do or do not charge you for the VAT for sure. That is something Billing would have to answer specifically.
The only thing I can tell you is that the VAT applies to the UK regardless of whether you pay in pounds or in euros. That's what it comes down to.
That's the answer to the question. I can't be any clearer. While some of the legal mumbo jumbo goes way over my head the VAT does exist in the UK and the UK is subject to pay it regardless of which currency they use to pay for a product. You could pay in yen and still be subject to paying the Value Added Tax if it applies to the transaction.
You are not listening to us. Why can other company's offer us normal prices and only PW is ripping us off ?
If you want I'll post tons of links from US company's like EA,Blizzard,Bioware etc. that do not have bigger prices for EU. Or VAT applies only to PW ?:)))))
Please stop using that excuse because it's just a fake excuse. You are telling us is the problem of the sistem but others have found ways to work with the sistem the only problem is at PW
You are buying this from America, not the EU, you are subject to VAT on anything brought outside the EU. This is 20% for Britain. Ypu also have some difference in currency conversion as said.
The reason others do not is that they sell from EU based companies or have the agreement with UK and pay vat that way.
Obviously with this it is being paid to a US company, it is similar to the fact the english UK and US forums being the same, but using american timing, though its the only english forum it is really american fourm. Therefore purchasing throught this site goes to the american comapny.
I wonder if going through the european forum site has this problem?
Untill the sort out that this is not just an american site or open and English site for european forums you gonna have this problem.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am not evil, I am just cursed.
The problem is that usually gamers and buyers on the internet are not used to pay taxes for games etc. That's why we use the internet. However, for some reason, PWE is situated in Asia and since NWO is published by an Asian company, I believe they simply have figured this out and added the tax fee.
Normally you never see this extra tax, but it is in legal terms something they are allowed to do, even a firm inside the EU can do this. I searched several places and it was tied to: "when you buy a non-material product or service, the buyers must add the tax of his/her country". omething along the lines of that.
We are not used to this and it is definately not a good thing.
EDIT: it is only PW that seems to enforce this, as I have bought many items from the US gaming related and VAT was never a problem.
You are not listening to us. Why can other company's offer us normal prices and only PW is ripping us off ?
If you want I'll post tons of links from US company's like EA,Blizzard,Bioware etc. that do not have bigger prices for EU. Or VAT applies only to PW ?:)))))
Please stop using that excuse because it's just a fake excuse. You are telling us is the problem of the sistem but others have found ways to work with the sistem the only problem is at PW
Just because another company has the resources to make a deal with EU or has the resources to set up a company within the EU so it can sidestep the taxes does not mean Cryptic has or does. That doesn't make them charging VAT a "fake excuse". I however and not a international tax attorney with insight into the specifics of Cryptic/PWE financials and can't say for sure why it is happening. Are you? Many companies make deals with governments to avoid paying certain taxes, maybe Cryptic/PWE hasn't or maybe the Parent company PWE has not been allowed to make any kind of deal. We don't know, but to make a random assumption about why it is happening and then tossing insults and accusations without actually having ALL the facts is childish and ignorant. Oh and for future reference "system" is spelled this way.
EDIT: it is only PW that seems to enforce this, as I have bought many items from the US gaming related and VAT was never a problem.
The funny part about this is, I've seen this same complaint on other company's forums before, except it's always "nobody else except [COMPANY IN QUESTION] does this".
Just because another company has the resources to make a deal with EU or has the resources to set up a company within the EU so it can sidestep the taxes does not mean Cryptic has or does. That doesn't make them charging VAT a "fake excuse". I however and not a international tax attorney with insight into the specifics of Cryptic/PWE financials and can't say for sure why it is happening. Are you? Many companies make deals with governments to avoid paying certain taxes, maybe Cryptic/PWE hasn't or maybe the Parent company PWE has not been allowed to make any kind of deal. We don't know, but to make a random assumption about why it is happening and then tossing insults and accusations without actually having ALL the facts is childish and ignorant. Oh and for future reference "system" is spelled this way.
Let me give a answer that will suit your agresive style of speaking to others on this forum.
I DON'T CARE WHAT EXCUSES THEY HAVE. If you want to sell something in europe open a branch in europe just like everybody else. Why should we pay more just because PW started a project over they're capability's ?
This game is a product and selling it with different prices is just making the customers run from the product.
Me as a potential buyer have the RIGHT to expres my complains about the product.(that includes price)
If you want to make money you must invest money. If your product is good it will make profits, if not it will be a fail. The customers decide. When you buy something you don't say Oh the poor company has bigger price because potatoes are rare in Scotland...NO you buy the potatoes with the best price/quality.
There are no excuses on the market. When I pull out money from my wallet I don't wanna hear excuses.
Um, you are aware that Neverwinter is a free-to-play game, right? If you don't want to pay the price for the Hero of the North pack or the VAT attached to it, then don't buy it. Play it for free! There is absolutely nothing in that pack that is required for playing Neverwinter.
I actually took the time to comparison shop between amazon.com (U.S.) and amazon.fr. In general, prices were 15%-40% higher on the French site (and yes, I did convert prices to Euro), and I'm guessing that is primarily due to the VAT as well as stricter regulations which amount to a mandatory extended warranty plan.
But you are right, WoW is an exception. In general, the prices for WoW are the same between the U.S.A. and France. But WoW's business model is completely different than Neverwinter's. WoW derives most of its revenue from subscriptions, while Neverwinter relies on selling extras in a cash shop. Neverwinter's profit formula is basically (price of item x number of items sold). With Blizzard, it is (price of subscription x number of subscribers x average length of subscription). It may be that Blizzard's accountants decided that the European subscription prices need to be kept low to prevent cancellations. Or maybe their lawyers secured a tax break or subsidy. Regardless, they are running a different business than a free-to-play MMO or a buy-to-play game, and applying a blanket pricing strategy on all models just doesn't make sense.
I want to support the game if it's decent when it comes out. I really really wanted this game to be a good game and if Cryptic shows signs of improving the game and adding constant updates I will buy even some useless <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> only to support the game.
But I cannot tolerate ripping me off or even worse incompetence. It's one of the two here they are making a money grabber or they are incompetents and they should hire an economist.
p.s. wow is not the exception World of Tanks, League of Legends. Both free 2 play. And I'm sure there are many more but I'm too lazy to look up other games
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altaweirMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 5Arc User
As already stipulated, that price is due to the European VAT charge applied to all countries which are part of the European Union.
I'm from Switzerland and last time I checked it's not part of the European Union and not using euro as a currency.
But I'm prompted for European prices, paid in euros.
1. Not Going To Happen. Sorry Neverwinter, you'll only have me as a free player until I pay the same than my US friends.
2. Seen from Switzerland, this VAT excuses looks a lot like bull.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited February 2013
As I said, I need exact posts to refer to about people who are incorrectly being labelled as part of the European Union.
VAT isn't an excuse, that's the reasoning behind the fee but I do know Finland and Switzerland citizens have reported being charged for VAT despite not being in the European Union. Previously I had told them to contact support directly, feel free to do so, but it's best to have specific examples to refer to when bringing an issue up to the powers that be.
gmajorplayzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited April 2013
I'm from the UK too, ready to make my founder purchase and not happy with the "oh, by the way here's your new price" listed as I'm about to pass the cash over. Fine, there are VAT rates to consider and from the previous posts there are good reasons for it.What I'm not happy with is the complete lack of transparency around pricing and what we're expected to pay in particular regions.
If you know the EU have to pay an increase, make that clear - pop the EUR price next to USD which is plastered all over the website. This alone is what gives me the impression they're just trying to pull a fast one. Why? because there's more chance someone will click through without even reviewing the prices/exchanges etc and pay the increased price. Why cant we see the EUR price? because it will only drive EU players away before they get close to clicking the "Buy Now" button.
Comments
The VAT applies to digital purchases as well as physical. In one way this is nice because unlike the United States your governments are getting into the 21st century and understanding there are things with value that we can't touch or hold. This means that property can be protected under the same laws as standard robery or gambling laws.
If the discussion of government protection of digital products in the US ever comes up the intelligent people in the room will say 'yeah that's nice but once they establish that they will then tax it.'
Bottom line is taxes aren't optional. There are a few online stores which don't charge tax directly which I use and it's stipulated very clearly in tax forms that people are still subject to paying tax on those products and mandates that people claim them. Regardless of whether people do or not it's still mandated and it's not beyond the realm of possibility that if a company chooses to not enforce tax regulations they could have legal action taken against them for aiding in tax evasion. It may not be worth it for the government to go after every single person who doesn't file the correct tax procedures but it can be very much worth it to take legal action against the retailers.
So PWE is not *choosing* to. Even if they didn't figure it in for the cost and essentially pay your taxes for you then you would still be legally obligated to file that value on your own taxes and pay it later.
However let's look at it another way, as an american citizen why should I pay more because your government, which should not effect me, imposes taxes on you? And then once the US catches up to the rest of the world and taxes for digital transactions is PWE going to be stuck lowering their prices for the US player base as well or are the US players going to have to pay more than Europeans?
Sorry but the fees have nothing to do with PWE so it's not fair or just to request that they take a pay loss or americans get a surcharge because of your country's actions. We can try to answer any questions on the fees but if you want the rates lowered that is entirely in the hands of the european governments.
Ok I understand this more clearly now, thankyou for the clarification.
My second question is this: Why is it that I can purchase goods online in USD, however not these founders packs? I've purchased games before with USD and played on EU servers no problem. Is this again to do with taxes and it's forced them to charge EU citizens EU currency (and thus tax on top)?
PvE Enthusiast.
World of tanks just yesterday i used euros to buy some gold.
The thing is not the VAT is the lameass marketing team that from the early days of this game has made blunder after blunder.
VAT problem my a.. in all the other games we got euros. I want to know how much i pay not to check the exchange rate everyday I buy something....
And I have quick checked blizzard store, guess what ? Euro
No more excuses please.
Only thing I know for sure is that regardless of which currency you pay in you will be subject to VAT.
Also aeroth001, are you sure you didn't mean to ask your first question differently? Currently all Europeans, including some who are not part of the Eu Union, are being forced to paying with Euros. This is a question I'm sure to pass one but honestly considering there's no difference in cost due to the currency it's one I don't quite understand.
The second question however makes perfect sense and I'll pass on, which is why I said as an american it doesn't make a bit of sense to built tax's into he product price.
However please keep things civil. Frustrations are understandable but tearing them a new one won't get anybody anywhere.
Just so you know, that is not handled by a marketing team. It is most likely handled by accounting or billing team depending on how the responsibilities are handled in Cryptic/PWE.
I cant wait for the British EU referendum, im so voting to get out of this super taxing shat hole.
the british economy would suffer greatly if you leave eu. truts me I studied political science and have a degree in security and defence:)
The uk would loose huge benefits and the only gain will be of some politicians like nigel farage...
I agree the eu is far from perfect it has tons of problems but we can only fix the problems from inside not by running away. Europe needs to be united or it will be casted out by the globalization to a marginal role in the world.
Anyway this is offtopic back to the main problem at hand.
I am not in the euro zone and want euro. Just as a respons to ambisinister. I understand the issues at hand but I was in the impression they are a profesional corporation that do things like this all day long.
When you expand on a new market you use the currency of that market...Imagine going to buy potatoes in Paris and they will only accept russian rubles because they are from Russia....what do you do go to the bank and exchange euro tu rubles or just buy from the next shop that accepts euro ?
It's ridiculos.
I am amazed that this sort of abuse goes unchecked by Moderators. If this is a measure of the Neverwinter community god help us!
The guy was only stating a fact and he is right.
How charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
- W.E.H.
This redirecting and charging more for the pack then others is a violation on a person and propably some law too.
It was rude but it wasn't an infraction of the rules. In any case I made it absolutely clear the US does not pay tax for digital products yet. If I buy a comic book in a store I pay sales tax on it...if I buy a digital copy there's no sales tax. Yes our government really is that backwards
Any country in the European Union uses the Euro. It may not be their in house currency but by claims stated by people on these forums it's as if the Euro doesn't exist.
Euro were created for international trading purposes and this is an international trade. I'm not seeing why there is an issue.
In some senses it's like the US and the metric system. The metric system means absolutely nothing to me. I can't visualize how far a kilometer is or tell you what a 1.4 meter tall man is. The only use of the metric system I have in my daily life is buying a 2 Liter of soda.
However whenever conducting a scientific experiment the metric system is always used. The metric system is the international standard and it's conformed to for simplicity sakes.
You might not know the value of a Euro, but in any case the value between a Euro and whatever other currency is static. It's a direct conversion and there is no gain or loss in that conversion. The loss is due to a fixed rate with a built-in tax.
If you are not in the European Union and are being redirected to a equo payment please post what nation you are in and I will pass it on.
Europe is being ripped off by it's own VAT then. If you don't want to pay you won't have to, but understand that the fee is not imposed by PWE because you're european it's imposed by your countries because you're in the European Union.
I'll pass the question on but games absolutely should have a tax applied to them. Digital products are another matter but many other posters have also stated that they are very much used to paying VAT on digital purchases.
Rememer let's keep this on topic.
I really would like specific questions directed about the charge which includes your country and possibly specific examples of locations the VAT doesn't apply/excepts from the actual law that denotes why it doesn't apply.
'Why is there an additional 5%'
'Why do I have to pay in Euros when I live in Finland?'
'<digital product> didn't charge me a VAT Rate, why do you.'
Saying the fee is wrong isn't going to get any explanations so if you want questions ask the questions otherwise I will have nothing to escalate this to billing with and I'll end up having to let the matter drop.
Some of the reactions to the Euro here are probably just, well, reactionary but there is a point to it.
The UK is in the European Union but is outside the Eurozone, the part of Europe that uses the Euro and so UK citizens forced to use the Euro are forced to incur a currency change charge. Imagine the reaction of Americans forced to pay with Canadian dollars ...
The level of VAT is settled on a national basis within Europe and the UK's Chancellor of the Exchequer, someone without any formal Economics qualification (except maybe that gained from a job folding towels), set it to 20%.
So in order to prevent a revolt of UK players the UK price of the various packs should really be as close as possible to the dollar price converted to pounds sterling with a 20% mark-up for VAT.
A Prootwaddle is one of the weirder player-character races in "The Fantasy Trip", Steve Jackson's first published role-playing game.
But as a EU citizen I want to use euro when I purchase something from a international corporation.
It's about PW to show they're true colors nothing more. Why other can offer use to pay in euro's and PW cannot ? This really troubles me and the VAT answer is a terrible excuse.
If they cannot do it, fire the one that cannot and hire someone who can.
I'm English, i buy tons of game Online from EU and US, and guess what? this is the first game ive had to pay in Euros for, i should pay 126 pounds but you force me to pay 167 pounds, tell me, if it is euro who charges us in euros why does no one else?
Again, it has NOTHING to do with the currency. Plain and simple.
EDIT - Pootwaddle, as near as I can tell they merely feel the fee exists built in, which I have no idea if it is or is not. Nobody has mentioned an external fee or the cost of that fee.
I re-subbed to SWTOR a few days ago i paid in pounds it was 15 dollars or 9 pounds that's about the right conversion rate so why do you charge me in euros and charge me an extra 40 pounds on top of my tax already? why can i pay 15 dollars for swtor but not 200 dollars for never winter tell me why are you forcing us to pay in euros and pay double tax?
SWTOR new expansion 12 pounds or 20 dollars, thats about right in conversion, why would neverwinter charge me 18 pounds in euros instead of 20 dollars or 12 pounds?
So how does PWE and don't tell me otherwise because this is the only bleeding company that does it, charge me 167 pounds instead of 126 pounds? if i can buy any other product in America and have it converted from dollars to the equivalent pounds why not neverwinter, are you trying to hide what this company is doing or what? because its some shady shady stuff.
However, I don't know why they do or do not charge you for the VAT for sure. That is something Billing would have to answer specifically.
The only thing I can tell you is that the VAT applies to the UK regardless of whether you pay in pounds or in euros. That's what it comes down to.
That's the answer to the question. I can't be any clearer. While some of the legal mumbo jumbo goes way over my head the VAT does exist in the UK and the UK is subject to pay it regardless of which currency they use to pay for a product. You could pay in yen and still be subject to paying the Value Added Tax if it applies to the transaction.
You are not listening to us. Why can other company's offer us normal prices and only PW is ripping us off ?
If you want I'll post tons of links from US company's like EA,Blizzard,Bioware etc. that do not have bigger prices for EU. Or VAT applies only to PW ?:)))))
Please stop using that excuse because it's just a fake excuse. You are telling us is the problem of the sistem but others have found ways to work with the sistem the only problem is at PW
The reason others do not is that they sell from EU based companies or have the agreement with UK and pay vat that way.
Obviously with this it is being paid to a US company, it is similar to the fact the english UK and US forums being the same, but using american timing, though its the only english forum it is really american fourm. Therefore purchasing throught this site goes to the american comapny.
I wonder if going through the european forum site has this problem?
Untill the sort out that this is not just an american site or open and English site for european forums you gonna have this problem.
Normally you never see this extra tax, but it is in legal terms something they are allowed to do, even a firm inside the EU can do this. I searched several places and it was tied to: "when you buy a non-material product or service, the buyers must add the tax of his/her country". omething along the lines of that.
We are not used to this and it is definately not a good thing.
EDIT: it is only PW that seems to enforce this, as I have bought many items from the US gaming related and VAT was never a problem.
Just because another company has the resources to make a deal with EU or has the resources to set up a company within the EU so it can sidestep the taxes does not mean Cryptic has or does. That doesn't make them charging VAT a "fake excuse". I however and not a international tax attorney with insight into the specifics of Cryptic/PWE financials and can't say for sure why it is happening. Are you? Many companies make deals with governments to avoid paying certain taxes, maybe Cryptic/PWE hasn't or maybe the Parent company PWE has not been allowed to make any kind of deal. We don't know, but to make a random assumption about why it is happening and then tossing insults and accusations without actually having ALL the facts is childish and ignorant. Oh and for future reference "system" is spelled this way.
The funny part about this is, I've seen this same complaint on other company's forums before, except it's always "nobody else except [COMPANY IN QUESTION] does this".
Let me give a answer that will suit your agresive style of speaking to others on this forum.
I DON'T CARE WHAT EXCUSES THEY HAVE. If you want to sell something in europe open a branch in europe just like everybody else. Why should we pay more just because PW started a project over they're capability's ?
This game is a product and selling it with different prices is just making the customers run from the product.
Me as a potential buyer have the RIGHT to expres my complains about the product.(that includes price)
If you want to make money you must invest money. If your product is good it will make profits, if not it will be a fail. The customers decide. When you buy something you don't say Oh the poor company has bigger price because potatoes are rare in Scotland...NO you buy the potatoes with the best price/quality.
There are no excuses on the market. When I pull out money from my wallet I don't wanna hear excuses.
I actually took the time to comparison shop between amazon.com (U.S.) and amazon.fr. In general, prices were 15%-40% higher on the French site (and yes, I did convert prices to Euro), and I'm guessing that is primarily due to the VAT as well as stricter regulations which amount to a mandatory extended warranty plan.
But you are right, WoW is an exception. In general, the prices for WoW are the same between the U.S.A. and France. But WoW's business model is completely different than Neverwinter's. WoW derives most of its revenue from subscriptions, while Neverwinter relies on selling extras in a cash shop. Neverwinter's profit formula is basically (price of item x number of items sold). With Blizzard, it is (price of subscription x number of subscribers x average length of subscription). It may be that Blizzard's accountants decided that the European subscription prices need to be kept low to prevent cancellations. Or maybe their lawyers secured a tax break or subsidy. Regardless, they are running a different business than a free-to-play MMO or a buy-to-play game, and applying a blanket pricing strategy on all models just doesn't make sense.
But I cannot tolerate ripping me off or even worse incompetence. It's one of the two here they are making a money grabber or they are incompetents and they should hire an economist.
p.s. wow is not the exception World of Tanks, League of Legends. Both free 2 play. And I'm sure there are many more but I'm too lazy to look up other games
I'm from Switzerland and last time I checked it's not part of the European Union and not using euro as a currency.
But I'm prompted for European prices, paid in euros.
1. Not Going To Happen. Sorry Neverwinter, you'll only have me as a free player until I pay the same than my US friends.
2. Seen from Switzerland, this VAT excuses looks a lot like bull.
VAT isn't an excuse, that's the reasoning behind the fee but I do know Finland and Switzerland citizens have reported being charged for VAT despite not being in the European Union. Previously I had told them to contact support directly, feel free to do so, but it's best to have specific examples to refer to when bringing an issue up to the powers that be.
If you know the EU have to pay an increase, make that clear - pop the EUR price next to USD which is plastered all over the website. This alone is what gives me the impression they're just trying to pull a fast one. Why? because there's more chance someone will click through without even reviewing the prices/exchanges etc and pay the increased price. Why cant we see the EUR price? because it will only drive EU players away before they get close to clicking the "Buy Now" button.