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Cryptics reputaion effects on new Neverwinter players
belzub
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 43
I want to start of by saying that in no way am I trying to bash cryptic or trying to troll about them. This thread is meant to discuss the concern on how players from previous Cryptic games has been critsising how Cryptic has been handling their games, and how it might discourage new players from playing the game.
Like many others on this forum I stumbled upon this game through different gaming sites like massively, gamebreaker etc. The first time I heard about this game was when they played a NW trailer on Gamebreaker. After they showed the clip they started to bash how this game is going to fail because on how they handled STO as an example. I remember thinking "haters gonna hate" and "this is the internet hate talking" but I must say that it left a bad taste in my mouth and I ignored this game for about two years.
Recently when my intrest for this game kindled mostly by beta footage I cant help reading through what previous players from STO and CO has been saying about Cryptic. Here are some quotes I found.
-"This company is well known exactly for NOT caring about their games after initial realease, s thing that was proved by Cryptics acting with City of Heroes (prior to this game being passed to Paragon Studios), then with Champions Online, and even with their most succesful product – Star Trek Online, when to this day they hadn’t completed one of the two playable factions."
-"Basically cryptic tends to work with philosophy – “do as little as possible, but charge for it as high as you can”.I’ll be very, very wary with investing in any new Cryptic game or being overly attached to any of their products.They are also known for lying to players about certain wanted features being unimplementable, whis is then revealed by players datamining game clients."
-"But the final nail to this coffin is something that only Cryptic invented and it’s a feature shared by ALL their games. It WILL BE present in Neverwinter as well, as all cryptic Games are using the same chat servers – it’s the one chat system across all their games. A player driven chat ban system. Why any sane MMO developer could think that it’s a good idea, I can’t fathom. But Cryptic did it."
Other quotes had even a more optimistic apporach
-"This might be the game that redeems Cryptic from their previous failures, the microtransaction implementation will be a critical factor"
Harsh words I must say. Feels like Bioware post swtor launch. I do understand that the mmo community are harsh and unforgiving, and yes haters gonna hate and all that but it's hard to ignore the speccific criticism. Usually the flaming is more genral about a game or company. Here it is very hard to ignore. A game developers reputation is everything in mmo's, especially if they have a reputaion of being greedy. Many people are saying that they now are boycotting EA games because of their money grabbing tactics.
So what is your experience with Cryptic? Do they have an undeserving reputation or do they have alot to prove with NWO? How have people you have spoken to reacted when telling them that this game is developed by Cryptic? How do you think their reputation will affect people to start playing this game?
Like many others on this forum I stumbled upon this game through different gaming sites like massively, gamebreaker etc. The first time I heard about this game was when they played a NW trailer on Gamebreaker. After they showed the clip they started to bash how this game is going to fail because on how they handled STO as an example. I remember thinking "haters gonna hate" and "this is the internet hate talking" but I must say that it left a bad taste in my mouth and I ignored this game for about two years.
Recently when my intrest for this game kindled mostly by beta footage I cant help reading through what previous players from STO and CO has been saying about Cryptic. Here are some quotes I found.
-"This company is well known exactly for NOT caring about their games after initial realease, s thing that was proved by Cryptics acting with City of Heroes (prior to this game being passed to Paragon Studios), then with Champions Online, and even with their most succesful product – Star Trek Online, when to this day they hadn’t completed one of the two playable factions."
-"Basically cryptic tends to work with philosophy – “do as little as possible, but charge for it as high as you can”.I’ll be very, very wary with investing in any new Cryptic game or being overly attached to any of their products.They are also known for lying to players about certain wanted features being unimplementable, whis is then revealed by players datamining game clients."
-"But the final nail to this coffin is something that only Cryptic invented and it’s a feature shared by ALL their games. It WILL BE present in Neverwinter as well, as all cryptic Games are using the same chat servers – it’s the one chat system across all their games. A player driven chat ban system. Why any sane MMO developer could think that it’s a good idea, I can’t fathom. But Cryptic did it."
Other quotes had even a more optimistic apporach
-"This might be the game that redeems Cryptic from their previous failures, the microtransaction implementation will be a critical factor"
Harsh words I must say. Feels like Bioware post swtor launch. I do understand that the mmo community are harsh and unforgiving, and yes haters gonna hate and all that but it's hard to ignore the speccific criticism. Usually the flaming is more genral about a game or company. Here it is very hard to ignore. A game developers reputation is everything in mmo's, especially if they have a reputaion of being greedy. Many people are saying that they now are boycotting EA games because of their money grabbing tactics.
So what is your experience with Cryptic? Do they have an undeserving reputation or do they have alot to prove with NWO? How have people you have spoken to reacted when telling them that this game is developed by Cryptic? How do you think their reputation will affect people to start playing this game?
Post edited by belzub on
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I think people will be wary of Neverwinter at first, therefore unlikely to buy Founder/Guardian packs like myself, but thats due to me being "burned" by GW2 and SWTOR. Never purchasing any game again without trying it first.
First of all Im not "listening to players" otherwise I wouldnt even be on this forum. Secondly even if the game is f2p it still could discourage players to even bother download the game not to even mention discouraging players from even buying the foundary packs wich in turn hurts the revenue of the game.
1) Tell me one single game company that has not had this sort of bashing, I suggest that you will be hard pressed to find a single one.
2) I did not see any positive quotes in your post. Was your intent to post all the negative and none of the positive? Where are all the rave reviews? The fan love?
3) If you are bent on forming an uninformed opinion, one without first hand experience and rely solely on the words of others who, in my view say the same HAMSTER about every game they have ever played because they clearly have nothing better to do but complain. I get that we all make, or form an opinion based on the reviews of the games we are interested in. We do. BUT, a wise opinion is formed only after looking at all, or as much, or as many reviews, press releases, game footage, and even logging in ourselves to play for a while. Only then can you really form an informed opinion.
I'd like to close with a final statement, I understand your concerns, we have all had them at one point or another. But realistically, the game is free to play, and I mean FREE to download, subscription FREE, and you are FREE to play at your own discretion. How can anyone complain about a product that costs them nothing if it brings even the smallest amount of pleasure, or at very least, some amusement? How? I don't get it. IF you decide after giving a game a fair chance, playing a a week or two, that you do not enjoy the game, move on to something else. Perhaps maybe you'd enjoy another, the choice here, is yours. Don't let the few haters, complainers and the like persuade your opinion, before you have even experienced a FREE to play game for yourself. Form your own opinion.
I truly hope you find you love Neverwinter, but like all games it will, I am sure, not be without its haters. I for one, choose to ignore all the BS, HYPE, and form my own opinion from as much information as I possibly can find, and as I am a HotN Founder, clearly... I CHOOSE to love Cryptic for bringing us 2013 Most anticipated, most amazing, and I suspect the most gamers choice awards winning game for 2013.
Peace Peeps.
IGN: DrDoom
CLS: Heretic
SVR: Atlantis
IND ID:1000165G030200060007250S15fb1f
________________________________________
1) Cryptic is a company, and companies typically strive to make money (this does not mean they are evil).
2) I have enjoyed Cryptic games in the past. My biggest gripe has been the slow development of content. The foundry helped this alot when introduced to STO.
3) I am an adult, and I freely choose to support them. I also accept the fact that I am ultimately responsible for such expenditures, and do not blame the company developing the title for my assumptions/lack of enjoyment/etc... I have always gotten what I paid for and what was stated by Cryptic.
4) The game will be free to play, no money down to even try it. I fail to see why anyone would be apprehensive to play it if they are interested. There is no cost or obligation other than time, hard drive space, and bandwidth.
Cheers!
After watching few hours of stream i can already find several developers fails (few big ones) that most likely won't be ever fixed, but I'll be patient and I'll wait to time game is released so no one will say that game is in beta so i have no right to criticise.
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library
I was in BETA #1 and took a big chance dropping $200 for the Founders pack. Glad I did to. You can play this game with out ever using the cstore. Just like GW2 you can play that game with out ever buying from Black Lion Trading Post. Watch this video and put your fears to rest .
http://youtu.be/AJg9SSIqPlo
People say "SWTOR failed!", yet I see 500,000 players. If every single one spends $5 a month, it's still VERY successful. They're doing an expansion, so I doubt that would occur if the game were failing. It's just not "WOW levels". A game doesn't need WOW levels of subs to be successful. That's like saying "If you're not as big as Steve Jobs was, you failed as a businessman".
Now, back to the concern of Cryptic's previous offerings. CoX was in no way badly done, save for ED. That was simply HAMSTER, and it stopped me from playing. But the game was not unenjoyable. Champs was also a fun game, it just didn't hold my interest after release. Was it a terribad game? No. And it still isn't, although, it does need developer attention to fix some mission bugs. STO, I don't know. Never played, never wanted to play, really. Sort of like a Firefly or Matrix title, I prefer shows or movies, but it's not a universe in which I care to enjoy a game.
I'm not a defender of Cryptic. If they create a "meh" game, they will reap the rewards of a "meh" game. As far as the care and feeding of the game after release, Emmert has said in interviews that he wants to change the perception of Cryptic as a company, and in saying this, he's one better than Pitchford. Now, let's see if he can walk the walk.
It has promise. No one can predict whether Cryptic will continue their past operating basis or not until two or three months after release.
I do agree that all game developers companies do suffer from this. However what I've seen and experienced is that the criticism towards cryptic are more speccific compared to the usual flaming of other companies, as I've stated previously.
My intent is to highlight the speccific negative quotes that I've seen that people has reacted to and will put intrested player off. Tbh I havent seen any praises about Cryptic at all from any social media or gaming sites. Only excitement on how NO looks from beta footage.
Its not about my opinon! Im saying as the headline states about new players finding quotes on the web that are saying negative things about Cryptic. We are all human beings and negative reviews about anything will end up making people cautious about certain purchases like the foundary packs. Look at Bioware for instance. BW had an amazing reputation before the launch of Swtor. They sold countless of copies of the game pre-launch. Blizzard who has an outstanding reputation broke the record on box sales for Diablo 3. Reputaion is everything when it comes to product sales. Cryptic has made afaik three mmo's and in all fairness there isnt much talk about the game outside this community in comparisson to other mmo's pre-launch. Why is that? My conclusion is that Cryptic isnt the most beloved developer out there especially when players from their own games are voicing bad reviews.
The game is free and it takes no effort to try the game that is as good as it gets, but for any game to succeed it needs revenue wich comes from a large player base especially if you are going a f2p model. If noone bothers to try out the game then the developers wont make enough money to support the game wich in turn hurts the current player base by bleeding them for money e.g. Swtor.
I know this is incredibly offensive, but the money-making scams, & price gougings of their products really doesnt reflect what you get. Take the founder stuff, for example. That stuff IS NOT worth what they say it is. You are merely DONATING to them. I decided to throw em 60 bucks, coz I'd like to think third times a charm. I really do enjoy their games, its just staggering how far they go to pry open that wallet.
And before you give me the, "Oh, they're a company dude, they need money.".... Arenanet.... GW2.... all Im gonna say. They did the pricing right, and you get what you pay for.
I never said that trying to make money out of a product is "evil". But if a company has a reputaion of bleeding players for money they are considered money grabbers and would put players off.
Im glad that you enjoyed their games. Lets hope they learn from their misstakes and keep updates at a nice going pace.
And would you even try a product from a company with bad reviews? Let alone put the money upfront for it? My guess is no because you are a smart consumer.
Going completly f2p is the strongest "selling point" this game has. As you said there is no harm trying the game. The problem is to get more people intrested. If people are initally put off they they arent intrested.
Let me make this abundantly clear. Im not talking about my opinon but how Cryptics bad reputation resonates through the MMO community wich in turn might hurt the population of NO.
Cryptic people are the most interested in changing that bad image of them and being bought by PW may help in that. We will see how it goes, right?:) Crypitc may make bad decisions but they are also just developers paid to do a job, which means that they are not always in control. Back then it was a co-op RPG, now it's a MMORPG.
More Generally- The OP was raising concerns based on the company's previous record. Since history provides the best predictor for future performance, it should be weighed as such. Of course, a company can change its ways. Still, in addition to the bad elements referred to, we can add the current evidence that supports such a picture:
1) $200 for top founders pack will strike many as very greedy
2) Pay to beta (for first weekend and to a lesser extent second and even third) also suggests same, not to mention less reliable testing since there was no filtering at all of who would be testing as far as founders)
3) Limit of 2 character slots. Certainly looks to push a "nickel and dime" approach to player base as such limits practically, although admittedly not completely, pushes players into spending at least some funds to play.
4) Advertising founders items as exclusive when past practice suggests by "exclusive" Cryptic means "limited to founders until we make them available to everyone else."
For those who are unabashed fans of what they have seen so far, I am happy for you. I hope you are right that all will be well, because I am a huge D&D fan. BUT, no matter how much you like what you see, and no matter how "free" this game will be to actually play, if the company does not build a large enough player base it will fail. I think those who are sounding the warning bells about past Cryptic problems are doing a huge service since so many are already paying exorbitant prices to the company at this early stage. Yes, it is their money and they can spend it as they please (although I feel sure many are spending someone else's money, although clearly not all). My concern is whether the company can justify those prices in the long run. Even more, such prices are an indication of an attitude that I find troubling. Of course I think the company is entitled to a profit, but that profit should be earned not simply generated.
Blizzard has always been one of my favorite game companies because I am a huge fan of Diablo 1, 2+LOD and WoW through TBC, but watching the decline (personal opinion) of WoW over the last 5 years and the way D3 turned out (not having a long term appeal for me), I lost a lot of faith in the direction those games have gone but I will most likely buy and play their next game because I know Blizzard's history. (I do not play/enjoy RTS games so I cannot comment on titles of that genre)
Cryptic on the other hand is not a game company I have ever given much thought to. Even though I have played and enjoyed all of their titles, they were not themes I could invest much time into because they do not appeal to me (Super Hero/Star Trek). But, D&D and particularly Forgotten Realms do appeal to me quite a bit and I believe have a larger audience appeal than the other titles.
With that said, I understand that fans of those games are probably jaded. With their history, they will look at NWO as just another Cryptic game that will further their tarnish their reputation.
But, as I mentioned before, I will judge Cryptic on this game and not the previous titles, because I believe the previous titles were given as much investment as the market dictated. There is not much ambition to spend a ton of money on something that holds little player appeal or that has a small niche in the market. That's a sad truth in business.
I agree with you, I don't care about Cryptic passed just the future of NW !
What you pointed out here is a major concern for anyone who is willing to try out the game. The majority might look at Cryptics track record and wouldnt touch the game with a three foot pole, others would probably try and give it a fair chance untill they see the issues that drwarpeffect listed.
I agree that you should give a company that is trying to better themselves a fair chance. But, Cryptic isn't really trying to prove anything here. They talk about how they want to improve, but I have played MMO's for a very long time and have become very cynical to what developers are saying. It's all marketting BS. Action speaks far louder, and with the pay to beta, and the huge price tags on foundary packs Cryptic doesnt seem to steer to any kind of new philosophy at all, and thats exactly what mmo players are talking about and what mmo sites and show hosts are saying.
As someone joined Champions Online soon after launch (joined Nov 2009, game launched Sept 2009), I can vouch for everything you have heard. CO was my main game for a long time because of its EXTENSIVE appearance customization options--which are the primary draw for me on any MMO and almost a requirement for me to stay interested in a game for the long haul--and I also enjoyed its freeform system (which provides good customization of our character abilities) and its "actiony" combat (though, I hate how easy the difficulty is and consider it to be excessively casual friendly), so I don't say this lightly or simply to hate.
I really wanted to stay in CO forever but my interests in the game have been waning for more than half a year now precisely because everything you listed in the OP is true. Just about the only thing I think you misses is their incredibly poor communication with the community. We haven't gotte a word from CO's current director in almost a year now and have no clue what the game's current direction is.
And IMO things have gotten even worse since PWE came along. They used to run a reasonable cash shop (some items, such as costume sets were even very low priced compared to other games), but recent items have been excessively priced ($50 for a single freeform slot, gear upgrades that could costs in the hundreds of dollars to max out a single toon) and/or available through gambling means (i.e. lockboxes) as the only option to get them. PWE also has a philosophy of essentially bleeding games dry till the end of their "economic usefulness" (usually 3 years or so) then moving on to the next:
^From their 2011 annual report (page labled 7 [9 from the pdf]--from the section titled Risks Related to Our Business [page labled 6, 8 from the pdf).
Personally, I intend to try this game as a long time D&D player since early 2nd ed whose main character played in every MMO with the cosmetic options to do it has been a dark elf witch. I might even consider buying stuff if the price is reasonable enough and I believe I will get enjoyment out of it. But I plan on being very cautious on how invested I become on this game based on my experiences with CO and what I've learned from this company and their parent company.
PS: Sorry if a lot of this has been brough up or address since I didn't have time to read the thread beyond the OP. Backs to work... >.>
Hey again Belzub,
Firstly I hope you did not take what I said personal, or specifically about you. When I use the word 'you' I meant every man, woman or child. In a general sense.
I simply read your forum title "Cryptics Reputation Effects On New Neverwinter Players" as to be a definitive statement and your post arguments to support your statement. Had it be formed as a question like "Will Cryptics Past Reputation Affect New Neverwinter Players? Discuss", I might have thought differently about how I responded.
But my point, perhaps misunderstood, was not whether or not there is bad press, not whether or not Cryptic's past reputation as a credible game producer is good or bad, not whether or not the general public or the social media/game review sites have anything good or bad to say. In fact, my point was .... it should not matter what anyone else says. It is up to the individual to form their own opinions by perhaps doing some digging, some due diligence, and form their own informed opinion. This is a new game, a new Cryptic, and perhaps people should begin their opinion forming from a fresh, new standpoint.
And in this specific case, Cryptic knows they have big shoes to fill with the Dungeons and Dragons franchise and it's fan base. Dropping the ball on this one is not going to win any long term fans, that's for sure. Knowing this, I am positive much care has gone into not repeating past mistakes, that's how companies grow (lets presume and hope). As you have pointed out, there is not much bad press out and about in the social media, MMO sites, etc. about Neverwinter.
Honestly, as I see it, and understand it, the haters scream louder than the fans, like anything else. If 'you' like something 'you' will rave about it to 'your' friends, they will trying, rave to their friends and word gets out.. IF 'you' hate it, 'you' post all over the net so everyone can see 'you' jumping up and down waving 'your' hands saying "Look here, this games sucks because....." I say, take as much information as you can in and perhaps play the game in question before you make an opinion, and it matters not WHO makes it. That's all.
Edit:
P.S. If you think Cryptic is bad, you should read all about Funcom.
IGN: DrDoom
CLS: Heretic
SVR: Atlantis
IND ID:1000165G030200060007250S15fb1f
________________________________________
In the end, they're still a company in it to make profit.
my issues with cryptic are from coh. they put out a patch that nerfed every character into oblivion. we sucked it up because it was probably good for the game. jack specifically stated there were no more wholesale nerfs, the nerfs they did was required for game balance, fine. next patch whole sale nerfs of the enhancements called enhancement diversification. player outrage insued and jacks statements were just asinine and rude to the community.
with all that said, im willing to let it go and give cryptic another chance since nw is a free to play game, if i like it I will spend some money. just hope they do redeem their company with this game.
However, Cryptic's handling of their previous MMOs, their 'reputation' if you will, is the sole reason why I did not and will not purchase any of their pre-launch founders packs.
I'll download Neverwinter and play it. If it's any good I may even spend money on it. But I won't spend a dime on it until well after I've seen that the game is one that I like and they show me through their actions that they will continue to support and improve the game itself and not just the cash shop.
This is not aimed at anyone in particular just a generalization...
First off there will be people (trolls) who complain regardless of who made what or what the game is about, these people get some sort of thrill off of feeling like they are some how vastly superior to any game company or fan base that play it just because they go against the grain just to start an argument or debate with others so that they can spew forth their opinions which they regard as fact. These people exist in every game and hold no weight or barring for my decisions, that is what the /ignore is for
Secondly the game is free to play, it takes no commitment from the public you can try it out for free and continue playing for free if you wish, heck you can even make your OWN dungeon if you don't like what was made! The thought that people feel a need to bash a company or game when they haven't even paid for anything is beyond me, next thing you know people will be demanding that they get paid to play the game, this entitlement ideal is what is seriously wrong with our country today.
and lastly watching the videos and seeing how much work and passion the entire Cryptic team has put in to this project, do people really think they want to make something that fails? They love what they do give them credit where credit is due, I certainly will ... Thank all of you, everyone at Cryptic, PWE, and WotC for working hard to make this game come to life, for giving up your family time to see this project through, and all the stress and work it took to make this game just to provide us with entertainment. Thank you gain you guys/gals are awesome.
People will play it because it's free and the majority will be herd more loudly that those few negative nancies in the end.
Nuff said.
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Im not sure where you got the idea that any of my statements were directed at you. I started off by saying "...my thoughts...", not directed at anyone in particular. Secondly I have paid for products with companies that have bad reviews, but the products were praised by multiple review sources. A bad company can make a good product, and vice versa. My second tab was expressing my feelings that too many players put on 'blinders' to a product based on the company or "what they heard". That is their choice, not mine.
Your last point is problematic since CO and STO have seen population increases after initial negative community feedback. Being free does have a huge impact on player's interest based on the past. Look at Funcom's titles that have increased players from going f2p and b2p, and AoC had an enormously bad reputation early on. SWTOR is a more recent example of population increases after becoming f2p. The list goes on... True that these are conversions and not initially f2p, but it does help illustrate how a game/company with a bad reputation can turn it around with the magic word 'free'.
Cheers!
I started playing CoH soon after launch and played it off and on until near it's closing down. I played STO after launch, but it wasn't for me. I still play some CO from time to time. So I experienced Cryptic before WoW changed the MMO landscape and as recently as a few hours ago.
At one time I would have told anyone that Cryptic was one of the best dev teams I've ever encountered. Not because they are the best at making games, but because they were the best at trying to communicate with their players. See, I believe that the payment model and game type are secondary to the people who are running the game as far as the game's integrity and my enjoyment of it is concerned. Cryptic used to be far and away better then other companies I have dealt with in this regard, which is most of the western market.
But this doesn't seem to be that Cryptic any more. I don't want to say they are the worst or they don't care, but they are different. And, to be honest, I think something special died with Paragon Studios now. I still feel ok giving them $60 as well as giving NWO a real chance to prove to me it's a worth while game. Would I suggest to someone else that they do the same? Probably not with the upfront money, but what does it hurt to give the game a chance before dismissing it or the developer out of hand?
Their own history gives me no reason to expect this, however.
Yes, I've been one of the "haters" TC is talking about. However, when I drop over $400 in STO and don't get what I feel is $400 worth of entertainment, all because Cryptic didn't pull through with pretty much anything they said they were doing for the game, why shouldn't I be? Now, a lot of things that they said they were planning for STO - that they didn't hold to, mind you - they have said they're planning for NW.
Why should I believe they'll make good on those promises now? I don't. I'll give them a fair chance, because I really would like for Cryptic to give me $400 worth of entertainment (that's what I paid for, after all), but it's Cryptic who has to deliver. Not the "haters."
I am curious. What is a "player driven chat ban system"?