vagrantzeroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
I'm fine with other people getting my founder's stuff at a later point in time. It in no way diminishes what I have. But then again "Status" as a concept is both disgusting and emasculating to me so I have no horse in that race.
I bought it and I don't care. Whatever Cryptic can do to monetize the game so that they can continue to grow their team and pump out new content, I'm in favor for so long that it isn't p2w. If that means coming out with 101 variations of the Spider Mount, so be it.
The value in the pack for me is the priority log-in, the guaranteed beta access, the extra character slots, and the friend beta ticket. The rest is just nice to haves.
This is one of the worse ways they can monetize their games. Cryptic Studios used to be known for their appearance customization features--its what sets them appart from the rest of the industry. Champions Online is one of the best MMOs in terms of character appearace customization in the history of MMOs (in some ways even better than its predecessor--City of Heroes), and STO also offers some pretty extensive options as well (with some head/facial options even better than CO, though, CO beats it in body customization and costume part variety).
I say "used to", because due to their rampant "take their cash at all cost" practices since PWE came in they've started cutting down on customization in the wild (and IMO mistaken) hopes of making a quick buck. They recently added vehicles to CO with fixed colors and no appearace customization to make us gamble (most of these are available exclusively through lockboxes) for the chance to maybe get the color we want--assuming there's any available out of their extremely limited variety whose color we want at all. And the thing about it is these vehicles used to be at the test server early on and people caught on to the fact that they could be fully color customized at the costume editor with colors of our own chosing drawn out from the game's full color palette. But by the time they went live they had them color fixed and sold only color specific vehicles then have us gamble for limited color variants for a separate cost.
I would rather pay premium than be nickled and dimed for a very limited range of color options when they're quite capable of giving us far more extensive customization options--which is what used to set this company appart from the competion. They used to give us the ability to create whatever character we envisioned--which would be a great tool for a game that draws on the PnP genre, which tends to draw heavily from the RP crowd, like this one. Now I'm not so sure anymore.
And I also find the notion that people would pay more for limited color options short sighted. All that does is limit customization. There is no guarantee that people will buy one of every color provided just because they're limited to just one color, but I know that I and probably others will refuse to buy them just because they offer limited customization. So in the end they just make more money for the limited number of people that do buy anything a game company throws their way, and little or nothing from the rest of us. IMO, they'd make FAR more money if they let us customize stuff rather than give us fixed color stuff then hope we'll buy each of the few color variants they provide down the line. It will also help them retain their reputation as one of (if not THE) best MMO companies in terms of appearance customization.
I fully expect them to gate every new item exclusively behind lockboxes at some point then never sell us anything straight, just like they did in CO. They're free to prove me wrong, though.
It is simply idiotic to classify a custom mount as pay to win, but like Stormdragon said over a year ago, some folks will whine "P2W" no matter what. :rolleyes:
Basically I am hoping that when I shell out 200 bucks that I don't see a cheaper replica Spider mount come out later. I want to be one of the original spider mount guys.
It would be a slap in the face to those that donate I think.
Every MMO I've seen have sold their cosmetic additions. Also I've seen posters say that in the past Cryptic put up these items in the store. So I'd wager you'll see these mounts in the store for $15-$25. Personally could really care less bout spider mounts, they're for the Tarpzzit fan club.
People want unique things. Remember the rocket mount in WoW from the TCG? it was really rare and expensive. Then blizzard added the love rocket, which was very different, to the game and was still super rare. People still complained.
Pretty much this. They did the same thing with STO. The Connie is now a Z-Store item. Same with the Borg BOff, Gold tribble and Targ pup. Don't be surprised if they release a different, similar or exact same thing in the future.
I think, the least they should do is to change the colours of the Spider Mount should they ever release it as a marketplace item.
This way the founders have at least a unique skin for their spider mounts.
Well the advertisement for the HOTN Founder's pack says "exclusive access"...somehow I feel that is going to be exploited via semantics and a variant of the spider mount will make an appearance. It doesn't describe the mount itself as "exclusive" but the access to it as exclusive. Same for the Menzoberranzan Renegade cosmetics & biographical background.
However, I'd be fine with Cryptic making a spider mount variant for other players and coming up with some other means to offer the Menzoberranzan Renegade cosmetic & bio. Say, via some contest in-game our out-of-game would be an example of how non-HOTN Founder pack purchasers could get their hands on the items. I don't have any problems sharing and playing well with others in the sandbox.
I do agree with others that the VIP queue is really the most valued part of the Founder's Pack, more than the cosmetic items, mounts, etc.
That would really HAMSTER me off, riot has been pulling this ****. Selling collectors edition skins on the sly a year later, selling so called limited edition skins after they have been taken out of rotation, i paid 200 bucks for some exclusive items and to support the game, but more for the exclusive items, and i wont spend another dime if suddenly a blue spider comes out or some nonsense that is exponentially cheaper just for a cash grab.
there are hundereds of other mount ideas, the spider must remain exclusive to the founders pack.
Hmm, if they were exclusive they'd ask alot more money. I'd bet if they made real auction for real exclusive mount, someone pays 1000+ dollar. Yeah, so that said, I dont think you guys are so lucky.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
People will have ways to get things that they couldn't get at launch. If it says exclusive expect it to be first more likely than unique However, the pack includes much more than the spider so crying over one thing would be not seeing the forest through the trees.
People will have ways to get things that they couldn't get at launch. If it says exclusive expect it to be first more likely than unique However, the pack includes much more than the spider so crying over one thing would be not seeing the forest through the trees.
Yeah, but repackaging, reskining and reselling the spider would be like chopping down the biggest tree in that forest and expecting nobody to notice, or care.
Yeah, but repackaging, reskining and reselling the spider would be like chopping down the biggest tree in that forest and expecting nobody to notice, or care.
And people still will buy and waste paper and life will go on.
Hmm, if they were exclusive they'd ask alot more money. I'd bet if they made real auction for real exclusive mount, someone pays 1000+ dollar. Yeah, so that said, I dont think you guys are so lucky.
The problem is it wouldn't be cost effective to create a unique mount and sell it to one person for even $5,000. Its is much more cost effective to sell it for $10 to anyone who wants it and have 2,000+ people buy it.
And people still will buy and waste paper and life will go on.
Yeah but the people willing to spend the money will surely spend it elsewhere. Its just bad business, anyone who was willing to buy the founder pack is clearly soemone who will spend money again, do you really want to slieght that group for the group who was too cheap to spend the money in the first place?
They advertised the items as "exclusive". I am just saying that I would expect it to stay that way and I think others would as well.
Don't. Anything listed as "unique" or "exclusive" in the pre-orders will end up in the cash shop eventually. Trust me on this - we had this go-around with both Champions Online and Star Trek Online, with much wailing, rending of garments, and gnashing of teeth.
IMO the only actual reason to buy the pre-orders is to support development of the game. If you're buying for the status symbols, believe me, you will be disappointed.
____________________
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
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kamaliiciousMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 0Arc User
The problem is it wouldn't be cost effective to create a unique mount and sell it to one person for even $5,000. Its is much more cost effective to sell it for $10 to anyone who wants it and have 2,000+ people buy it.
Yeah but the people willing to spend the money will surely spend it elsewhere. Its just bad business, anyone who was willing to buy the founder pack is clearly soemone who will spend money again, do you really want to slieght that group for the group who was too cheap to spend the money in the first place?
Just bad business.
Business is all about making money. That means giving the majority what they really want. Why care about a few people who already given their money, when they have dozens of other people willing to spend just to have a look-a-like of this "exclusive item".
Why are you guys complaining? You have the first prototype! You have that special specific color. When newbs come up and ask you where they can get it to, you can tell them they can't get it. xD
Yeah but the people willing to spend the money will surely spend it elsewhere. Its just bad business, anyone who was willing to buy the founder pack is clearly soemone who will spend money again, do you really want to slieght that group for the group who was too cheap to spend the money in the first place?
Just bad business.
Not sure I agree. First, it is possible that some folks who spends that much money in a "burst," sight unseen, may carry unrealistic expectations about the game, and about how much say they have in it. When (not if, but when) those expectations are not met, then such people may decide to leave the game for good. In effect, that one "down payment" is all Cryptic will ever get from them, no matter where the game goes.
Second, the people who are dropping the money for some reason other than the pretties (e.g. desire to support the game, or even just the "Hero of the North" title) won't care all that much if the pretties show up in the cash shop. They'll stay or leave based on their impressions of and personal investment in the game itself.
Consider this fair warning from someone who has been following Cryptic for years, and who wants you (the generic "you") to be informed about your purchases - "exclusive" in-game items almost definitely will not stay exclusive.
Not sure I agree. First, it is possible that some folks who spends that much money in a "burst," sight unseen, may carry unrealistic expectations about the game, and about how much say they have in it. When (not if, but when) those expectations are not met, then such people may decide to leave the game for good. In effect, that one "down payment" is all Cryptic will ever get from them, no matter where the game goes.
Second, the people who are dropping the money for some reason other than the pretties (e.g. desire to support the game, or even just the "Hero of the North" title) won't care all that much if the pretties show up in the cash shop. They'll stay or leave based on their impressions of and personal investment in the game itself.
Consider this fair warning from someone who has been following Cryptic for years, and who wants you (the generic "you") to be informed about your purchases - "exclusive" in-game items almost definitely will not stay exclusive.
Not sure I agree. First, it is possible that some folks who spends that much money in a "burst," sight unseen, may carry unrealistic expectations about the game, and about how much say they have in it. When (not if, but when) those expectations are not met, then such people may decide to leave the game for good. In effect, that one "down payment" is all Cryptic will ever get from them, no matter where the game goes.
Second, the people who are dropping the money for some reason other than the pretties (e.g. desire to support the game, or even just the "Hero of the North" title) won't care all that much if the pretties show up in the cash shop. They'll stay or leave based on their impressions of and personal investment in the game itself.
Consider this fair warning from someone who has been following Cryptic for years, and who wants you (the generic "you") to be informed about your purchases - "exclusive" in-game items almost definitely will not stay exclusive.
They never are.. that was kinda my point. For truly exclusive mount, available only at one time, they could ask alot more.
If I remember correctly, SWTOR's VIP room, all you needed some in-game money and you could enter.
They never are.. that was kinda my point. For truly exclusive mount, available only at one time, they could ask alot more.
I have no doubt that there are people out there who will pay silly amounts of money for guaranteed exclusivity. However, it's really tricky to justify the exclusivity of a digital good. First, it's really just an access toggle so it's not like you can "break the mold" to ensure no one else can ever get it. There will always be the temptation to make it available again, if the game needs a quick cash infusion. Second, if it's extremely highly priced, it's not likely to represent a significant portion of income for a MMO. Or, rather, if it is, then the MMO is probably in serious trouble...
Not sure I agree. First, it is possible that some folks who spends that much money in a "burst," sight unseen, may carry unrealistic expectations about the game, and about how much say they have in it.
It is also possible that the money is not as significant to them. For instance if I were to not go out to dinner one time this week I would save more than the $200, so for me the cost is not more than one night out for dinner, not very significant. There are plenty of people that that much money is not significant definitely not as significant as feeling you got screwed (in a bad way not a good way).
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jnaathraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
- eye roll -
Scout Tragold - "I haven't lived this long by being brave... it's just another word for stupid."
Yeah but the people willing to spend the money will surely spend it elsewhere. Its just bad business, anyone who was willing to buy the founder pack is clearly soemone who will spend money again, do you really want to slieght that group for the group who was too cheap to spend the money in the first place?
Just bad business.
Some people willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money for stuff like the HotN Pack may choose to spend it elsewhere in protest. But the majority of the rest of the population (including those too "cheap" to blow more money than an ENTIRE B2P game costs several times over on just a few digital items) will be more likely to spend money on a regular basis if they offer those items individually for more reasonable prices.
That's how a game really gets supported in the longrun--by keeping prices in a range the greatest number of people will be willing and likely to buy on a regular basis, not by limiting themselves to the comparatively small percentage of the population willing to ditch huge amounts of cash on stuff with questionable value.
I'm not worried about the items showing up later on in the store. I want the game to be successful, and to do that they need be profitable. The teams need a paycheck.
The way I see it is that IF I were to purchase all of the pack items separately, they would cost a few hundred more than in the pack. So, the pack is getting the items at a discount along with early and beta access.
And, I think the Drow costume set is pretty awesome looking.
I'm not worried about the items showing up later on in the store. I want the game to be successful, and to do that they need be profitable. The teams need a paycheck.
The way I see it is that IF I were to purchase all of the pack items separately, they would cost a few hundred more than in the pack. So, the pack is getting the items at a discount along with early and beta access.
And, I think the Drow costume set is pretty awesome looking.
Some few foundry buyers don't care if the items are sold in the cash shop at some point because THEY really are only trying to support the game and my hats off to them unfortunately they are the small minority as this thread is showing that to many it's more of an elitist thing.
My idea is that every item in these packs should eventually be in the cash shop, that's just good business. If it's really about supporting the game what does it matter whether you buy these items in a "package deal" or piece by piece if you can't or don't want to buy the pack.
This way both groups get to "help support" the game in they way they feel able to. Look at this breakdown:
I think it's pretty evident that a majority of the packs 'value' can be found in the cash shop currency given.
5-day early access - negligible/priceless depending on the individual
Access to all 3 betas - negligible/priceless depending on the individual(Twitch/Justin.tv/youtube viewer spikes/subscriptions?)
Skin - $25
Mount - $25
Pet - $10
Regalia Mask - negligible/priceless depending on the individual
Priority log in - negligible/priceless depending on the individual
Aura(reusable?) - $15
12 slot bag - $5
Early Foundry - negligible/priceless depending on the individual
Lev 60 Weapon box - $10
Access to mask tavern - negligible/priceless depending on the individual
Helper pack - $5
Respec token - $10
Enchantment(reusable) - $5
Robe of Useless Items - negligible/priceless depending on the individual
3 character slots - $25
750,000 Astral Diamonds - after assessment
Estimated Value - $549
Totaling: $135
Difference = $412
750,000 / $412 = 1820 Astral Diamonds per $1.00
Given PWE's notoriety for 100 zen = $1.00, I could easily see 100 zen = 1,000 Astral Diamonds. At that conversion rate, they are essentially giving you almost double the zen for the same price.
Assuming Foundry will have cash shop items unlocking events/tools/triggers/traps/mobs, if you are a fan of making campaigns then this is a great deal.
Given PWE's history of costumes costing anywhere from $5 - $20, if you like cosmetic stuff, again it's a great deal. They are simply asking players to take advantage of their gratuity up front, instead of slowly grinding in-game currency for zen exchange or slowly spending $400 on cash shop items throughout the course of your experience.
While I think 25$ for skins and mounts is a little high (I usually won't pay more than 20$ for a mount) it seems pretty accurate to me. We can see the bulk of the value is for the Astral Diamonds.
If it is really about supporting the game and not about elitism then why would anyone care if you can get these items individually in the cash shop, you would still be getting a good deal on the AS, you would still be getting the exclusive forum title and head start and betas access not to mention the jump ahead in the queue line.
Saying we can get these items individually but we would have to pay several hundred more than the package deal is well not good business. It would be like saying hey I got a good package deal on a pc at newegg but those buggers better not put any of those components in the build on sale individually .
Comments
LOL that would be really awesome and completely messed up xD
This is one of the worse ways they can monetize their games. Cryptic Studios used to be known for their appearance customization features--its what sets them appart from the rest of the industry. Champions Online is one of the best MMOs in terms of character appearace customization in the history of MMOs (in some ways even better than its predecessor--City of Heroes), and STO also offers some pretty extensive options as well (with some head/facial options even better than CO, though, CO beats it in body customization and costume part variety).
I say "used to", because due to their rampant "take their cash at all cost" practices since PWE came in they've started cutting down on customization in the wild (and IMO mistaken) hopes of making a quick buck. They recently added vehicles to CO with fixed colors and no appearace customization to make us gamble (most of these are available exclusively through lockboxes) for the chance to maybe get the color we want--assuming there's any available out of their extremely limited variety whose color we want at all. And the thing about it is these vehicles used to be at the test server early on and people caught on to the fact that they could be fully color customized at the costume editor with colors of our own chosing drawn out from the game's full color palette. But by the time they went live they had them color fixed and sold only color specific vehicles then have us gamble for limited color variants for a separate cost.
I would rather pay premium than be nickled and dimed for a very limited range of color options when they're quite capable of giving us far more extensive customization options--which is what used to set this company appart from the competion. They used to give us the ability to create whatever character we envisioned--which would be a great tool for a game that draws on the PnP genre, which tends to draw heavily from the RP crowd, like this one. Now I'm not so sure anymore.
And I also find the notion that people would pay more for limited color options short sighted. All that does is limit customization. There is no guarantee that people will buy one of every color provided just because they're limited to just one color, but I know that I and probably others will refuse to buy them just because they offer limited customization. So in the end they just make more money for the limited number of people that do buy anything a game company throws their way, and little or nothing from the rest of us. IMO, they'd make FAR more money if they let us customize stuff rather than give us fixed color stuff then hope we'll buy each of the few color variants they provide down the line. It will also help them retain their reputation as one of (if not THE) best MMO companies in terms of appearance customization.
QFT,
I fully expect them to gate every new item exclusively behind lockboxes at some point then never sell us anything straight, just like they did in CO. They're free to prove me wrong, though.
My post does not claim that a mount is p2w.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Every MMO I've seen have sold their cosmetic additions. Also I've seen posters say that in the past Cryptic put up these items in the store. So I'd wager you'll see these mounts in the store for $15-$25. Personally could really care less bout spider mounts, they're for the Tarpzzit fan club.
This way the founders have at least a unique skin for their spider mounts.
However, I'd be fine with Cryptic making a spider mount variant for other players and coming up with some other means to offer the Menzoberranzan Renegade cosmetic & bio. Say, via some contest in-game our out-of-game would be an example of how non-HOTN Founder pack purchasers could get their hands on the items. I don't have any problems sharing and playing well with others in the sandbox.
I do agree with others that the VIP queue is really the most valued part of the Founder's Pack, more than the cosmetic items, mounts, etc.
there are hundereds of other mount ideas, the spider must remain exclusive to the founders pack.
Yeah, but repackaging, reskining and reselling the spider would be like chopping down the biggest tree in that forest and expecting nobody to notice, or care.
And people still will buy and waste paper and life will go on.
The problem is it wouldn't be cost effective to create a unique mount and sell it to one person for even $5,000. Its is much more cost effective to sell it for $10 to anyone who wants it and have 2,000+ people buy it.
Yeah but the people willing to spend the money will surely spend it elsewhere. Its just bad business, anyone who was willing to buy the founder pack is clearly soemone who will spend money again, do you really want to slieght that group for the group who was too cheap to spend the money in the first place?
Just bad business.
IMO the only actual reason to buy the pre-orders is to support development of the game. If you're buying for the status symbols, believe me, you will be disappointed.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2079095/Chinese-man-spends-16-000-sword-virtual-martial-arts-game.html#axzz2JqMlyDVX
Business is all about making money. That means giving the majority what they really want. Why care about a few people who already given their money, when they have dozens of other people willing to spend just to have a look-a-like of this "exclusive item".
Why are you guys complaining? You have the first prototype! You have that special specific color. When newbs come up and ask you where they can get it to, you can tell them they can't get it. xD
Second, the people who are dropping the money for some reason other than the pretties (e.g. desire to support the game, or even just the "Hero of the North" title) won't care all that much if the pretties show up in the cash shop. They'll stay or leave based on their impressions of and personal investment in the game itself.
Consider this fair warning from someone who has been following Cryptic for years, and who wants you (the generic "you") to be informed about your purchases - "exclusive" in-game items almost definitely will not stay exclusive.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
This.
Way better explanation than what I gave. xD
They never are.. that was kinda my point. For truly exclusive mount, available only at one time, they could ask alot more.
If I remember correctly, SWTOR's VIP room, all you needed some in-game money and you could enter.
The gorilla formerly known as Kolikos
It is also possible that the money is not as significant to them. For instance if I were to not go out to dinner one time this week I would save more than the $200, so for me the cost is not more than one night out for dinner, not very significant. There are plenty of people that that much money is not significant definitely not as significant as feeling you got screwed (in a bad way not a good way).
Some people willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money for stuff like the HotN Pack may choose to spend it elsewhere in protest. But the majority of the rest of the population (including those too "cheap" to blow more money than an ENTIRE B2P game costs several times over on just a few digital items) will be more likely to spend money on a regular basis if they offer those items individually for more reasonable prices.
That's how a game really gets supported in the longrun--by keeping prices in a range the greatest number of people will be willing and likely to buy on a regular basis, not by limiting themselves to the comparatively small percentage of the population willing to ditch huge amounts of cash on stuff with questionable value.
The way I see it is that IF I were to purchase all of the pack items separately, they would cost a few hundred more than in the pack. So, the pack is getting the items at a discount along with early and beta access.
And, I think the Drow costume set is pretty awesome looking.
Some few foundry buyers don't care if the items are sold in the cash shop at some point because THEY really are only trying to support the game and my hats off to them unfortunately they are the small minority as this thread is showing that to many it's more of an elitist thing.
My idea is that every item in these packs should eventually be in the cash shop, that's just good business. If it's really about supporting the game what does it matter whether you buy these items in a "package deal" or piece by piece if you can't or don't want to buy the pack.
This way both groups get to "help support" the game in they way they feel able to. Look at this breakdown:
While I think 25$ for skins and mounts is a little high (I usually won't pay more than 20$ for a mount) it seems pretty accurate to me. We can see the bulk of the value is for the Astral Diamonds.
If it is really about supporting the game and not about elitism then why would anyone care if you can get these items individually in the cash shop, you would still be getting a good deal on the AS, you would still be getting the exclusive forum title and head start and betas access not to mention the jump ahead in the queue line.
Saying we can get these items individually but we would have to pay several hundred more than the package deal is well not good business. It would be like saying hey I got a good package deal on a pc at newegg but those buggers better not put any of those components in the build on sale individually .
Neverwinter Thieves Guild