I don't know what's worse. The fact that they are charging for beta or the fact that I'm contemplating purchasing a key. What are your thoughts?
They're not charging for beta. Don't buy and you still have a chance to get chosen for beta. They're charging for pre-order packs and a guaranteed entry into beta.
Don't buy and stick with your chances, or buy and get a better deal then the post-launch packs and get guaranteed access to beta.
It's a risk either way.
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darkstarkirianMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
They're not charging for beta. Don't buy and you still have a chance to get chosen for beta. They're charging for pre-order packs and a guaranteed entry into beta.
Don't buy and stick with your chances, or buy and get a better deal then the post-launch packs and get guaranteed access to beta.
It's a risk either way.
What Mrs. Nakeg said.
Just registering an account will give you a chance at Beta testing, for free.
A number of the special offers (Magazines, .coms, etc) guarantee you a Beta key.
Being a CO and/or STO LTS guantees you a Beta access.
Just to be clear, PWE is not selling beta access and it has been officially stated that there will be other ways to get into the beta and as evident from history, there have been numerous ways to get into the beta in the past that didn't involve money. No one is forced to buy anything to be able to download, log in and play Neverwinter when it is released.
Beta access in the Founder's packs is a bonus. If you're buying the pack just for beta access, or do not want anything else in those Founder's Packs and just want beta but don't want to buy those packs, then that is a decision you have made yourself. Just keep an eye out for future ways to gain access to the upcoming Beta testing.
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Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC] Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
When a psychologist conducts a study he does not require people to pay him for his study. Testers are there to provide valuable data to the dev team about issues the game has. Making people pay is just bringing in people who just want to play and not really care about quality feedback. ESO had an actual application for CB which is what Cryptic should have done. Beta should not be a paid service, plain and simple. All Cryptic is doing is playing on people's desperation to play the game and whittle some money out of em. Call it what you want but that is some shady bushiness practice.
Hardly a relevant analogy to this conversation, since not only do psychological and medical case study subjects not have to pay to test, they are PAID for testing. There is no anticipation or excitement, it's simply income.
And if you think it's a shady business practice, then by all means, don't participate. Welcome to freedom, where you are free to exercise your displeasure by not testing. No big deal. It will be free to you when the game is released, just as it's always been advertised and promised.
vinnersMember, NW_CrypticDev, Neverwinter Beta Users, Cryptic Developers, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Cryptic Developers ›Arc User
edited January 2013
I feel like we've been here before.
Those of you who remember the Lockboxes debacle probably remember me saying something to this effect already. There's some potential for really good discussion here, and I don't want to see that ruined by bickering and in-fighting.
So going forward, please remember the following before you post:
-The people you're having this discussion with are the adventurers who will be facing down Valindra's zombie army, various dragons, and even devils. So keep it civil!
-Barring illegal activity, what a person does with their money is not on trial. Please refrain from making judgements about their actions!
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brewsterxMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 26Arc User
Yeah and all the people that got keys at the shows and any were else for free are perfect testers? I would tend to think that someone spending $200 is going to give some quality feedback so they don't feel like they wasted their money.
Your logic might seem sound, but it's simply not the case. It's hard enough to get beta testers from the general public who actually want to test. Most simply want to play and don't take the time to report bugs, or specifically look for bugs or make suggestions that would make the game better. I've got quite a bit of experience in betas myself, and know a large amount of people who have done a good amount of beta testing. The majority of those people aren't truly testing, they're playing. Getting a head start on the game if you will. In my experience, the majority of people who are willing to pay to get into a beta, regardless of what they purchase that gets them in, only want to play. Testing is not a priority for them.
Again, it's simply hard to get people who will actually take the time to test and help make a game better before launch.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
And the recent discussion is with the assumption they won't also be inviting players behind the scenes who have given quality feedback in the past or something.
Not by any means saying it is happening, I haven't been told either way, but I am pointing out that all of you are assuming they are only taking luck of the draw testers from giveaways.
Did I see it correctly that you have to buy the 200$ pack to get access to the foundry on release? WTH! If that's the case, just when do all us undeserving plebs get to use it?
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wodny1988Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Did I see it correctly that you have to buy the 200$ pack to get access to the foundry on release? WTH! If that's the case, just when do all us undeserving plebs get to use it?
I love to run into walls, try the running around a mountain trick things like that to search for bugs, also in WoW sometimes I had to report Turkeys stuck inside a tree
What? GGG offered the cheapest pack for like 10 dollars and it gave you a beta key. And they invited many people via their website countdown system.
In case of "Neverwinter" you have to spend 60 dollars to get beta access which is only happening at certain weekends.
You have to spend 60 to get access Feb 8.
Plus GGG was selling Beta access not other items. The 60 dollars is supposed time be for items with beta access as a bonus.
The 20 dollar pack gives second weekend access. It happens to be a month later but it is not like they get a month of play time.
I don't see why the 20 dollars is overlooked like it doesn't exist. If you only want the beta access then by all means toss 20 dollars at em and get second weekend access...
Or wait for some more free access methods or open beta.
geddings12Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
the game itself is free to play. and they said many times you do not have to pay to get in the beta. However your chances will be much slimmer. You could always just wait till the open beta comes out, but for me ive been wanting to play this for a while so and it will be fun to be able to help test out. I dont mind paying you get a lot of other cool things with it as well so :-) seems fun!
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wodny1988Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You are not beta testers. They will possibly listen to feedback, but it's highly dubious. Mostly what they will be doing is gathering server-side information on performance, awards, deaths, etc (logging, basically) and they just want you to play the game. The beta testers have already done their work in the real closed beta. The access is for a marketing beta.
If you wish to be part of a true "beta testing", bone up on FogBugz, Bugzilla and other bug reporting software, get 3 years of experience testing on projects like Neverwinter Nights, Rogue Dao, and put your hat in the ring for a job (likely starting off at about $12-15 an hour with benefits).
Or you could marry someone working at PWE or Cryptic (or a family member gets hired at one of these companies), but even then, you'll be about 4 builds behind the programming.
Possibly not the best practice, but that's the way it is as of now.
With WH Online, the whole company (Mythic) and supporting companies' employees + relatives got beta keys. I had a good friend working in support to get a key long before anything about beta was announced on the website or people could even sign up for beta.
It's called friends and family for a reason folks.
He's still not right here. I'd personally love to mention how this is not true with specific examples, but there is a certain three letter acronym that stops me. I'll say there's a ways to go before this is a "preview for release" and there's plenty for testing.
Read my FAQ it lists the Crypticmapolis even explicitly stating
Originally Posted by crypticmapolisWe intend to have a long, multi-stage beta process that will test many aspects of the game. Cryptic has always valued player input, and PWE has given us the time and resources to execute the beta cycle we've always wanted to do. I should also note that the Foundry will have a similar, but somewhat separate beta cycle.
It's certainly not going to be a last-minute marketing-only beta.
And who asked this question in the first place? I did. So I think I knew these concerns back in June of 2012 were answered then.
Please remember, your experience isn't always everybody's experience or way of doing things.
Well when they have down Beta weekends and then at the end all the clumped misc beta keys being tacked on with open beta then that pretty much says that those beta weekends are the closed betas especially since a little while ago it was stated that alpha hasn't even gone yet. I know only of Closed Betas and Open Betas.
And an example of exactly what I mean on people authoritatively speaking about their opinions looking like facts (and wrong.) What you think is your opinion and not what you know. What other people think is not fact but rumor unless they have solid proof. And since it's NDA they are either lying or in violation so bad character either way.
Since alpha has been going for longer than anybody publicly guessed, not even close to what I read here when they guessed (and that's as much as I can say without going into details,) don't bother asking around.
And Tempus this is the second time I have publicly replied to you stating Alpha is active and correcting your "timeline." Don't post the above opinion a third time as it's factually confirmed untrue. Thank you.
Any items purchased in these "beta packages" have to be reclaimable after any such potential closed beta or open beta wipes, once the game goes live. They would have to be.
I agree Cryptic should make this clear for those who do not know how mmo betas work, and/or for those with.. trust issues.
I would much rather spend the usual $60 on the box price of the game (which helps to gate out gold spammers and guarantees that the company get a return on their investment for every player that's actually interested in playing their game) or even a bit more than that, than be expected to pay $200 for access to a single race, mount and an animal companion I may need for my character's concept (plus a title I care nothing about and takes next to no development cost to produce)--all of which are digital goods that cost nothing to produce.
I am well aware that the company needs to monetize the game somehow to make money--I've played other F2P games before and have a LTS in one of Cryptic's other games and have spent far more than $549 in it. But when video games go in just a few years from a $60 box price for an ENTIRE game to selling access to a single race, mount and companion for a game at $200 while claming that these items are supposedly "worth" $549 something is seriously out of balance and out of whack in this picture.
Sorry to correct here, but this link shows the entirety what one gets for $199.99 Of course you don't need to spend this and get all this stuff just to get into beta as Pinpointerror shows there will be multiple access options, and the access for free uses STILL is being determined as well as ALL key access for ALL three weekends.
What? GGG offered the cheapest pack for like 10 dollars and it gave you a beta key. And they invited many people via their website countdown system.
In case of "Neverwinter" you have to spend 60 dollars to get beta access which is only happening at certain weekends.
No you don't they just have higher priority access. Please see the below link for proof. the CM will attest to what I am replying as accurate.
And PoE was in beta for how long again? Trick question I know the answer cause I was in their CB and researched it. Over a year. How long did it take the game itself to be made to GET to these stages?
After working for over six years on Path of Exile, we are proud to say that its Open Beta launch was a complete success.
And a slowly funded independently worked on game is different than an IP-linked AAA MMORPG game. Now, if you'd like to wait an average of 6 years before a company gets to an open beta state, then you may have something there, but I know you don't.
And did they randomly give away keys? Wait, give away keys, sounds like something this site will be doing in the future like GGG did...
Okay all. Let's just be nice to others. No calling people names if they choose to buy this, or not. It's up to the users to decide if they want the stuff and/or the accelerated access. If you have questions on the key access, keep checking Pin's thread (he made me say it;) )
Basically every game that comes out these days gives you preffered or guaranteed beta access for pre-order. So if you like what u see and think u may spend some cash, then whats the big deal spending it in advance. I think those of us that have faith in the game and will pay up front should get the preference. Maybe im wrong but thats the way i see it.
The Liver is Evil and must be punished!! Drink More Beer!
I may agree on others, but here I am more in disagreement with you. This beta will be more of a preview - and there is a good reason. You can already sense the mood on forums (and even the mood in official posts) that you have "paid" for beta. When there is such a mood, users will demand beta as a right, not as a privilege. When you 'sell' beta (or it is percieved that you do) it becomes impossible to apply NDA, ask users to submit detailed reviews - it all becomes voluntary. There is no obligation to find bugs - it is ore of a preview: and it is the same when game launches. No one is under obligation to report bugs, few do however.
So I would disagree - I believe the beta is more of an early access and early preview rather than serious beta testing. I am not saying that it is bad though. I think it is good - gives devs a time when they can always say "but its a beta, next build we do that" and thus get feedback without any backlash from players.
For clarification, because I've seen this question pop up occasionally: The various packs will carry over into live launch. 100% guarantee it.
Perhaps you you coud edit the Offical news release of the Founders packs to include this info?
[SIGPIC]Handle: @kirian_darkstar
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC] Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited January 2013
When do I receive these items?
You will receive a select number of items from the pack(s) you purchased immediately when you log in to play during a Beta Weekend event. This provides an opportunity to try out these items and show them off to players in the Forgotten Realms. When Neverwinter launches, you will receive all items from the pack(s) you purchased to enjoy!
Directly taken from the bottom of the News Article. You will have everything you paid for at launch.
Consider this a promise
geddings12Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
the game is free to play and free to download as it is. your griping because they decided to let it be one of the perks of the founders pack to get in early? Not really a sound argument in my book!
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bejita231Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited January 2013
if it was just beta, but its not, $60 gets you lots of ingame items/mounts/ and lots of their cash shop currency, my biggest concern is how expensive their cash shop items are going to be and if what im geting from the packs that arent the $200 dollar ones are going to even be worth it
Comments
They're not charging for beta. Don't buy and you still have a chance to get chosen for beta. They're charging for pre-order packs and a guaranteed entry into beta.
Don't buy and stick with your chances, or buy and get a better deal then the post-launch packs and get guaranteed access to beta.
It's a risk either way.
What Mrs. Nakeg said.
Just registering an account will give you a chance at Beta testing, for free.
A number of the special offers (Magazines, .coms, etc) guarantee you a Beta key.
Being a CO and/or STO LTS guantees you a Beta access.
Just to be clear, PWE is not selling beta access and it has been officially stated that there will be other ways to get into the beta and as evident from history, there have been numerous ways to get into the beta in the past that didn't involve money. No one is forced to buy anything to be able to download, log in and play Neverwinter when it is released.
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Beta testing hasn't started but there is an active alpha going on.
Hardly a relevant analogy to this conversation, since not only do psychological and medical case study subjects not have to pay to test, they are PAID for testing. There is no anticipation or excitement, it's simply income.
And if you think it's a shady business practice, then by all means, don't participate. Welcome to freedom, where you are free to exercise your displeasure by not testing. No big deal. It will be free to you when the game is released, just as it's always been advertised and promised.
Casually Accomplished since 2009 ** WEBSITE ** COMMUNITY CHARTER
Those of you who remember the Lockboxes debacle probably remember me saying something to this effect already. There's some potential for really good discussion here, and I don't want to see that ruined by bickering and in-fighting.
So going forward, please remember the following before you post:
-The people you're having this discussion with are the adventurers who will be facing down Valindra's zombie army, various dragons, and even devils. So keep it civil!
-Barring illegal activity, what a person does with their money is not on trial. Please refrain from making judgements about their actions!
Your logic might seem sound, but it's simply not the case. It's hard enough to get beta testers from the general public who actually want to test. Most simply want to play and don't take the time to report bugs, or specifically look for bugs or make suggestions that would make the game better. I've got quite a bit of experience in betas myself, and know a large amount of people who have done a good amount of beta testing. The majority of those people aren't truly testing, they're playing. Getting a head start on the game if you will. In my experience, the majority of people who are willing to pay to get into a beta, regardless of what they purchase that gets them in, only want to play. Testing is not a priority for them.
Again, it's simply hard to get people who will actually take the time to test and help make a game better before launch.
Not by any means saying it is happening, I haven't been told either way, but I am pointing out that all of you are assuming they are only taking luck of the draw testers from giveaways.
In case of "Neverwinter" you have to spend 60 dollars to get beta access which is only happening at certain weekends.
Oh. That's not too bad than. *Outrage turned*
Anyone still searching for guilds you can check out HCG Hardcore Christian Gamers.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You have to spend 60 to get access Feb 8.
Plus GGG was selling Beta access not other items. The 60 dollars is supposed time be for items with beta access as a bonus.
The 20 dollar pack gives second weekend access. It happens to be a month later but it is not like they get a month of play time.
I don't see why the 20 dollars is overlooked like it doesn't exist. If you only want the beta access then by all means toss 20 dollars at em and get second weekend access...
Or wait for some more free access methods or open beta.
http://www.amazon.com/forum/video%20games?cdForum=Fx1T1DM93QU4XL1&cdThread=TxM2NA80E0E3XN
Their packs were much better than those presented by Cryptic.
20 dollars for 2 days of playing? No thanks.
You might be surprised here.
Incorrect here. I won't speak for other places.
It's called friends and family for a reason folks.
He's still not right here. I'd personally love to mention how this is not true with specific examples, but there is a certain three letter acronym that stops me. I'll say there's a ways to go before this is a "preview for release" and there's plenty for testing.
Read my FAQ it lists the Crypticmapolis even explicitly stating
And who asked this question in the first place? I did. So I think I knew these concerns back in June of 2012 were answered then.
Please remember, your experience isn't always everybody's experience or way of doing things.
And an example of exactly what I mean on people authoritatively speaking about their opinions looking like facts (and wrong.) What you think is your opinion and not what you know. What other people think is not fact but rumor unless they have solid proof. And since it's NDA they are either lying or in violation so bad character either way.
Since alpha has been going for longer than anybody publicly guessed, not even close to what I read here when they guessed (and that's as much as I can say without going into details,) don't bother asking around.
And Tempus this is the second time I have publicly replied to you stating Alpha is active and correcting your "timeline." Don't post the above opinion a third time as it's factually confirmed untrue. Thank you.
QFT
Sorry to correct here, but this link shows the entirety what one gets for $199.99 Of course you don't need to spend this and get all this stuff just to get into beta as Pinpointerror shows there will be multiple access options, and the access for free uses STILL is being determined as well as ALL key access for ALL three weekends.
There has not
There is Alpha.
No you don't they just have higher priority access. Please see the below link for proof. the CM will attest to what I am replying as accurate.
And PoE was in beta for how long again? Trick question I know the answer cause I was in their CB and researched it. Over a year. How long did it take the game itself to be made to GET to these stages?
And a slowly funded independently worked on game is different than an IP-linked AAA MMORPG game. Now, if you'd like to wait an average of 6 years before a company gets to an open beta state, then you may have something there, but I know you don't.
And did they randomly give away keys? Wait, give away keys, sounds like something this site will be doing in the future like GGG did...
Okay all. Let's just be nice to others. No calling people names if they choose to buy this, or not. It's up to the users to decide if they want the stuff and/or the accelerated access. If you have questions on the key access, keep checking Pin's thread (he made me say it;) )
I may agree on others, but here I am more in disagreement with you. This beta will be more of a preview - and there is a good reason. You can already sense the mood on forums (and even the mood in official posts) that you have "paid" for beta. When there is such a mood, users will demand beta as a right, not as a privilege. When you 'sell' beta (or it is percieved that you do) it becomes impossible to apply NDA, ask users to submit detailed reviews - it all becomes voluntary. There is no obligation to find bugs - it is ore of a preview: and it is the same when game launches. No one is under obligation to report bugs, few do however.
So I would disagree - I believe the beta is more of an early access and early preview rather than serious beta testing. I am not saying that it is bad though. I think it is good - gives devs a time when they can always say "but its a beta, next build we do that" and thus get feedback without any backlash from players.
Perhaps you you coud edit the Offical news release of the Founders packs to include this info?
Registered: Oct/2009 , LTS : Feb/2011
Fleets: Warriors of the Phoenix, Kirian Industries[/SIGPIC]
Three years and still no Captain Klaa hair...
Directly taken from the bottom of the News Article. You will have everything you paid for at launch.
Consider this a promise