In a way, it's exactly like a kickstarter except that there is no goal and no refund :P
Goal: Some sort of safety blacket on release? Just saying random stuff here. XD
Refund: Are there refunds in Kickstarter? Wow, not that I need any but I thought there was none.
In any case, both are about hope and trust. You give money upfront in exchange of stuff that may or may not work in the end.
...and the company already got funding from their parent company and their other games, so you're really just paying huge sums to buy a few fluff features upfront for a game you haven't even played yet.
To a point, I can agree with that. Still a F2P game that needs players buying stuff from the shop to get funds once released, no need to buy a "box" to play it,... A bit of gambling on their part to guarantee some cash early on. But hey, at least the content offered seems quite optional and no game altering.
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runamonkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I'll pay a nominal amount, normally I spend around 60 dollars or so for a game so that's what I'll spend here.
I remember when everyone used to start off equal in games. Then companies found out there are target markets that will pay just to feel a little more powerful over others or make the game easier than it was intended for themselves or just can't wait to play. =p
Things are always changing lol.
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runamonkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think if people look at this as 60dollars is the regular version of the game, and the 200 is the collectors edition of the game it would maybe make more sense to them. The game is going to be free to download and free to play. They are not selling a copy of the game. That is atleast how I am seeing it.
This is like rewarding someone who pre-orders a game, what better way to reward someone then give them a little beta weekend and early open beta. They are not paying for beta, they are paying for items, mounts, extra character slots etc etc... The beta to me is an extra.
Maybe I'm wrong I've tested alot of games, I've been in the early stages of EQ2 beta, and this doesn't bother me. I wish when I bought a copy of a game I got early access to it. If you look at it that way you might see things a little different, or maybe not. I am more of a glass half full kind of guy though.
I hate it. I say CB should be for reserved for testers to identify problems and test the game. Pre-orders or founders packs should be for guaranteed fist access for open beta events. Seems like selling beta keys is the new norm though. At least for Cryptic/PWE since that's all they've been doing with their keys for the most part it seems.
Betas are for promotion of the game. It has been along time since they have had anything to do with testing a game...
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
edited January 2013
Honestly, this has been a trend for a little while on any F2P title. Mechwarrior Online is a good example of how well it worked, with 5.4 million in Founder's donations raised. I'm pretty sure most of this fund-raising isn't Cryptic, it's the publisher (PWE). Cryptic makes the game. They get production-level targets for implementing the armored spiders, etc. Even access is probably dictated primarily by the publisher.
Beta is an incorrect term, but it's basically been changed to mean "access to the game before game start which may or may not have a wipe involved". MWO for example is still in "Open Beta" even though they've been charging for premium services for over 3 months now. NWO may (possibly) still be "in Beta" when "released", as it is also a f2P title. That's all dependent upon many different factors.
As far as buying beta access: First, this is a business. They want to make money. If beta access is what people want, of course they will charge for it. With the "free" beta access (giveaways, promotional items, etc.), there's two routes they can go:
a.) Ignore the promised access and simply not give it. This will garner a lot of animosity for the game, and both companies. I honestly don't see this happening.
b.) Offer one beta weekend (likely a "stress test" of sorts) where they invite all in one go. This will include all founders as well as PCG, TL2, RaiderZ and random website signups.
You are not beta testers. They will possibly listen to feedback, but it's highly dubious. Mostly what they will be doing is gathering server-side information on performance, awards, deaths, etc (logging, basically) and they just want you to play the game. The beta testers have already done their work in the real closed beta. The access is for a marketing beta.
If you wish to be part of a true "beta testing", bone up on FogBugz, Bugzilla and other bug reporting software, get 3 years of experience testing on projects like Neverwinter Nights, Rogue Dao, and put your hat in the ring for a job (likely starting off at about $12-15 an hour with benefits).
Or you could marry someone working at PWE or Cryptic (or a family member gets hired at one of these companies), but even then, you'll be about 4 builds behind the programming.
Possibly not the best practice, but that's the way it is as of now.
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atseearrMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I really don't mind garuanteed access to beta if you pre-purchase, as long as there's lottery/chance beta access to sign-ups, too.
The weird part for me is that one of the perks is for early access to open beta - rather than the usual early access to the actual game at launch.
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runamonkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Any items purchased in these "beta packages" have to be reclaimable after any such potential closed beta or open beta wipes, once the game goes live. They would have to be.
I agree Cryptic should make this clear for those who do not know how mmo betas work, and/or for those with.. trust issues.
If you wish to be part of a true "beta testing", bone up on FogBugz, Bugzilla and other bug reporting software, get 3 years of experience testing on projects like Neverwinter Nights, Rogue Dao, and put your hat in the ring for a job (likely starting off at about $12-15 an hour with benefits).
Or you could marry someone working at PWE or Cryptic (or a family member gets hired at one of these companies), but even then, you'll be about 4 builds behind the programming.
Possibly not the best practice, but that's the way it is as of now.
You are right.
With WH Online, the whole company (Mythic) and supporting companies' employees + relatives got beta keys. I had a good friend working in support to get a key long before anything about beta was announced on the website or people could even sign up for beta.
Betas are for promotion of the game. It has been along time since they have had anything to do with testing a game...
Open beta yes that is pretty common, closed beta no. At least that is from my experiences with GW2, Rift, and SWTOR. Can't recall if TSW did or not which I was given a CB key without having to pre-order the game.
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syfylisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
It's not open beta for the weekends. It may not even technically be closed beta. Just a clarification.
And I can't say how I know but it's very very likely any items obtained from purchase will be reclaimable after a wipe,
Well when they have down Beta weekends and then at the end all the clumped misc beta keys being tacked on with open beta then that pretty much says that those beta weekends are the closed betas especially since a little while ago it was stated that alpha hasn't even gone yet. I know only of Closed Betas and Open Betas.
To a point, I can agree with that. Still a F2P game that needs players buying stuff from the shop to get funds once released, no need to buy a "box" to play it,... A bit of gambling on their part to guarantee some cash early on. But hey, at least the content offered seems quite optional and no game altering.
I would much rather spend the usual $60 on the box price of the game (which helps to gate out gold spammers and guarantees that the company get a return on their investment for every player that's actually interested in playing their game) or even a bit more than that, than be expected to pay $200 for access to a single race, mount and an animal companion I may need for my character's concept (plus a title I care nothing about and takes next to no development cost to produce)--all of which are digital goods that cost nothing to produce.
I am well aware that the company needs to monetize the game somehow to make money--I've played other F2P games before and have a LTS in one of Cryptic's other games and have spent far more than $549 in it. But when video games go in just a few years from a $60 box price for an ENTIRE game to selling access to a single race, mount and companion for a game at $200 while claming that these items are supposedly "worth" $549 something is seriously out of balance and out of whack in this picture.
Any items purchased in these "beta packages" have to be reclaimable after any such potential closed beta or open beta wipes, once the game goes live. They would have to be.
I agree Cryptic should make this clear for those who do not know how mmo betas work, and/or for those with.. trust issues.
I can't see how they wouldn't be. This is just a sales pitch to get people to pay for "closed" beta weekend.
My biggest beef with the founders package besides the principle of beta sell outs is the Drizzit fanboy club in the Hero of the North. Hate Drizzit, sick of the drow wannabes, zero motivation for the Hero of the North package even if I would consider it. Now a demonic tiefling themed pack would be incredibly enticing. Like a Nightmare mount and a more demonic pit lord or succumbs looking tiefling. They should have had different themed packages.
I would much rather spend the usual $60 on the box price of the game (which helps to gate out gold spammers and guarantees that the company get a return on their investment for every player that's actually interested in playing their game) or even a bit more than that, than be expected to pay $200 for access to a single race, mount and an animal companion I may need for my character's concept (plus a title I care nothing about and takes next to no development cost to produce)--all of which are digital goods that cost nothing to produce.
I am well aware that the company needs to monetize the game somehow to make money--I've played other F2P games before and have a LTS in one of Cryptic's other games and have spent far more than $549 in it. But when video games go in just a few years from a $60 box price for an ENTIRE game to selling access to a single race, mount and companion for a game at $200 while claming that these items are supposedly "worth" $549 something is seriously out of balance and out of whack in this picture.
I think the real "value bargin" is coming from the astral diamonds. What was it... 175,000 astral diamonds? Without any info provided on the cash shop (assuming that's what their for) it's a hard sale to pull.
This just stinks of a half assed marketing PR work since so much is left unexplained and looks very sloppy.
I can't see how they wouldn't be. This is just a sales pitch to get people to pay for "closed" beta weekend.
My biggest beef with the founders package besides the principle of beta sell outs is the Drizzit fanboy club in the Hero of the North. Hate Drizzit, sick of the drow wannabes, zero motivation for the Hero of the North package even if I would consider it. Now a demonic tiefling themed pack would be incredibly enticing. Like a Nightmare mount and a more demonic pit lord or succumbs looking tiefling. They should have had different themed packages.
yeah I actually really dislike all elf races. im perfectly happy paying 60 bucks instead of 200. 60 gets you a direwolf pet instead of a kitty (much prefer the wolf) all beta weekends, and being I hate spiders im perfectly happy with that armored horse mount. I support you cryptic. thanks for all the goodies
"Just because im short and stumpy doesnt mean im not fast and nimble. my thirst for treasure keeps me...shall we say...more athletic than most dwarves" Dakoldin Quiverbeard (Dwarven Ranger)
I can't see how they wouldn't be. This is just a sales pitch to get people to pay for "closed" beta weekend.
My biggest beef with the founders package besides the principle of beta sell outs is the Drizzit fanboy club in the Hero of the North. Hate Drizzit, sick of the drow wannabes, zero motivation for the Hero of the North package even if I would consider it. Now a demonic tiefling themed pack would be incredibly enticing. Like a Nightmare mount and a more demonic pit lord or succumbs looking tiefling. They should have had different themed packages.
Yeah, tell me about it. Drow in the $200 pack just made me roll my eyes. But if it were a tiefling... I don't think I'd be able to resist. lol
What ever... i am willing to buy a box and doing monthly payment to check out this game and if this game will be nice i could continue paying.
Couse there's no good MMO actually right now and i need it like an air
I think the real "value bargin" is coming from the astral diamonds. What was it... 175,000 astral diamonds? Without any info provided on the cash shop (assuming that's what their for) it's a hard sale to pull.
This just stinks of a half assed marketing PR work since so much is left unexplained and looks very sloppy.
And as I've said before, even the 750,000 in terms of what the exchange rate to Zen currently is on STO and CO is only $37 to $43, essentially 185 to 190 diamonds per zen. So you can do your own math on the lower amount of diamonds.
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gapamanMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited January 2013
Close Beta = not all will get a invite.
This way if you really want to get in to beta you can.
No say you need to buy it, you can w8 for a beta key if you lucky.
Comments
Thanks. This may change things. Now i'll just make sure that my wife never knows
St. Augustinus
Refund: Are there refunds in Kickstarter? Wow, not that I need any but I thought there was none.
In any case, both are about hope and trust. You give money upfront in exchange of stuff that may or may not work in the end.
To a point, I can agree with that. Still a F2P game that needs players buying stuff from the shop to get funds once released, no need to buy a "box" to play it,... A bit of gambling on their part to guarantee some cash early on. But hey, at least the content offered seems quite optional and no game altering.
http://kotaku.com/5979599/neverwinter-beta-weekends-dated-and-for-200-you-can-play-drizzt
Which video? the founder pack video? I would have to disagree. It doesnt do the game justice at all.
[/SIGPIC]
The Older Gamers (25+) - Never too old to play games
Things are always changing lol.
And I can't say how I know but it's very very likely any items obtained from purchase will be reclaimable after a wipe,
This is like rewarding someone who pre-orders a game, what better way to reward someone then give them a little beta weekend and early open beta. They are not paying for beta, they are paying for items, mounts, extra character slots etc etc... The beta to me is an extra.
Maybe I'm wrong I've tested alot of games, I've been in the early stages of EQ2 beta, and this doesn't bother me. I wish when I bought a copy of a game I got early access to it. If you look at it that way you might see things a little different, or maybe not. I am more of a glass half full kind of guy though.
Betas are for promotion of the game. It has been along time since they have had anything to do with testing a game...
Beta is an incorrect term, but it's basically been changed to mean "access to the game before game start which may or may not have a wipe involved". MWO for example is still in "Open Beta" even though they've been charging for premium services for over 3 months now. NWO may (possibly) still be "in Beta" when "released", as it is also a f2P title. That's all dependent upon many different factors.
As far as buying beta access: First, this is a business. They want to make money. If beta access is what people want, of course they will charge for it. With the "free" beta access (giveaways, promotional items, etc.), there's two routes they can go:
a.) Ignore the promised access and simply not give it. This will garner a lot of animosity for the game, and both companies. I honestly don't see this happening.
b.) Offer one beta weekend (likely a "stress test" of sorts) where they invite all in one go. This will include all founders as well as PCG, TL2, RaiderZ and random website signups.
You are not beta testers. They will possibly listen to feedback, but it's highly dubious. Mostly what they will be doing is gathering server-side information on performance, awards, deaths, etc (logging, basically) and they just want you to play the game. The beta testers have already done their work in the real closed beta. The access is for a marketing beta.
If you wish to be part of a true "beta testing", bone up on FogBugz, Bugzilla and other bug reporting software, get 3 years of experience testing on projects like Neverwinter Nights, Rogue Dao, and put your hat in the ring for a job (likely starting off at about $12-15 an hour with benefits).
Or you could marry someone working at PWE or Cryptic (or a family member gets hired at one of these companies), but even then, you'll be about 4 builds behind the programming.
Possibly not the best practice, but that's the way it is as of now.
The weird part for me is that one of the perks is for early access to open beta - rather than the usual early access to the actual game at launch.
I agree Cryptic should make this clear for those who do not know how mmo betas work, and/or for those with.. trust issues.
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You are right.
With WH Online, the whole company (Mythic) and supporting companies' employees + relatives got beta keys. I had a good friend working in support to get a key long before anything about beta was announced on the website or people could even sign up for beta.
Open beta yes that is pretty common, closed beta no. At least that is from my experiences with GW2, Rift, and SWTOR. Can't recall if TSW did or not which I was given a CB key without having to pre-order the game.
My work: Heroes Blacksmith - Library
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?21051-Heroes-Blacksmith-Library
Well when they have down Beta weekends and then at the end all the clumped misc beta keys being tacked on with open beta then that pretty much says that those beta weekends are the closed betas especially since a little while ago it was stated that alpha hasn't even gone yet. I know only of Closed Betas and Open Betas.
I would much rather spend the usual $60 on the box price of the game (which helps to gate out gold spammers and guarantees that the company get a return on their investment for every player that's actually interested in playing their game) or even a bit more than that, than be expected to pay $200 for access to a single race, mount and an animal companion I may need for my character's concept (plus a title I care nothing about and takes next to no development cost to produce)--all of which are digital goods that cost nothing to produce.
I am well aware that the company needs to monetize the game somehow to make money--I've played other F2P games before and have a LTS in one of Cryptic's other games and have spent far more than $549 in it. But when video games go in just a few years from a $60 box price for an ENTIRE game to selling access to a single race, mount and companion for a game at $200 while claming that these items are supposedly "worth" $549 something is seriously out of balance and out of whack in this picture.
I can't see how they wouldn't be. This is just a sales pitch to get people to pay for "closed" beta weekend.
My biggest beef with the founders package besides the principle of beta sell outs is the Drizzit fanboy club in the Hero of the North. Hate Drizzit, sick of the drow wannabes, zero motivation for the Hero of the North package even if I would consider it. Now a demonic tiefling themed pack would be incredibly enticing. Like a Nightmare mount and a more demonic pit lord or succumbs looking tiefling. They should have had different themed packages.
I think the real "value bargin" is coming from the astral diamonds. What was it... 175,000 astral diamonds? Without any info provided on the cash shop (assuming that's what their for) it's a hard sale to pull.
This just stinks of a half assed marketing PR work since so much is left unexplained and looks very sloppy.
yeah I actually really dislike all elf races. im perfectly happy paying 60 bucks instead of 200. 60 gets you a direwolf pet instead of a kitty (much prefer the wolf) all beta weekends, and being I hate spiders im perfectly happy with that armored horse mount. I support you cryptic. thanks for all the goodies
Yeah, tell me about it. Drow in the $200 pack just made me roll my eyes. But if it were a tiefling... I don't think I'd be able to resist. lol
Couse there's no good MMO actually right now and i need it like an air
And as I've said before, even the 750,000 in terms of what the exchange rate to Zen currently is on STO and CO is only $37 to $43, essentially 185 to 190 diamonds per zen. So you can do your own math on the lower amount of diamonds.
This way if you really want to get in to beta you can.
No say you need to buy it, you can w8 for a beta key if you lucky.