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Foundry Exploit
fcrowles
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 136 Bounty Hunter
One thing I'm curious on is I'm assuming doing missions or killing monsters gives some form of experience points or gold. What's keeping people from exploiting this and creating extremely easy repeatable simple missions to easily achieve max level and gold?
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In STO, the had a similar issue with various XP and Loot exploits, however I doubt most of them would be possible in NW, seeing as there is no Space environment...
Also from what they have indicated in STO, NW has a similar system in the way of rewarding missions based on the time played as well as possibly having a max cap on rewards that can be gained from a single mission..
The last thing is.. let people 'exploit' if they want.. it'd be a grind and a half and they'd be missing out on what could possibly be the best half of the game... ;-P
Also I was wondering is there a way to change the abilities of monsters built in the foundry and their combat strategy?
@Uglybugger They tried a system like that in FFXIV and it made hardcore gamers like myself who spend more time playing the game than not very very angry.
I think the loot drops will be so low, especially from a low level Mob group, that the impact would be negligable. They could always 'nerf' the drops anyway if it did become a problem.
In regards to the changing of abilities. Not that's in the Foundry in STO anyway, and we haven't seen any indication of that in the screenshots and demonstrations so far. However you could Reskin one Mob type as anything else and would in theory give the illusion that they have different powers and strategies to what they normally have, if that makes sense?
One more completely unrelated question, will there be a vast emote list for roleplaying purposes?
As I understand it, it only applied to foundry missions though, not Cryptic missions.
Take a gander at this video: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/177517/Video_Cryptics_solution_for_new_MMO_content_Let_the_players_make_it.php#.UQCeTmf-jUB
Craig Zinkievich talks about the exploits they saw in STO through the user generated content and what they did to prevent it.
Yep, that's more or less it
If you go by Cryptics other games, I'm sure there will be a large array of emotes, in and out of the foundry
Oh and the video UgglyBugger posted is a good watch.
Plus, the Foundry will have rating system and a system for catching exploits that should help quite a bit as well.
Eventually, it is on players - if they support exploiter missions, exploiters will find a way to do something.
If they oppose exploiters, they may go away and stop putting limitations on foundry.
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That said, cryptic keeps changing rules to fight exploiters on a regular basis, however they alone can't win this fight unless they have the support from community.
Another safe-guard they could implement is to make it so the Founder's own work will not yield them any rewards, so making their own exploit maps would be futile.
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I wouldn't mind that too much. Just playing my own mission would be reward enough... but not sure how that would stop someone from using an alt account to build an exploit for their main.
Sadly, I can well imagine the very same thing happening with the Foundry. Let's hope it doesn't, but prepare for it anyway.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
Check out my Foundry missions:
Standalone - The Great Escape - The Galaxy's Fair - Purity I: Of Denial - Return to Oblivion
Untitled Series - Duritanium Man - The Improbable Bulk - [WIP] Commander Rihan
Tiko
It has nothing to do with supporting or reporting exploiters. Its just taking the downhill path as opposed to the uphill one. If it takes 1 day to get to 60 using foundry maps as opposed to 1 month playing regular maps with absolutely no benefit either way then I can guarantee you the majority of the community will play the exploiters maps. Its just ludicrous to take a harder path for the same goal.
Character is what a man is in the dark
Misusing things as they are not intended to be used is exploiting.
The recent exploit of 2 second missions was plugged by cryptic and normal foundry users had to suffer as limitations were put on their missions.
The next exploit in trend is to "defang" the mobs - i.e. put walls so that the monsters can't attack you while you can attack them. This is very much possible in NW foundry to as they have shown ranged and melee mobs can be chosen by users.
Now because of this exploit that freedom will be taken away.
Exploiters should be dealt severely by cryptic and users who love foundry and want to see some freedom in missions closer to NWN's foundry should take pitchforks and chase them out for exploiting it.
Or eventually we will have to turn off all kinds of XP and loot in foundry to kick off the exploiters if situation keeps getting worse. Even though non-exploiting players don't really mind, cryptic minds exploiting and to stop it is ready to punish normal good folks of shire too for the sins of a few.
They've said repeatedly that you can level exclusively through UGC. Diminishing returns would detract from this.
Standard solve for this is to have the mob teleport if it can't get to you due to pathing.
Does it really matter though? So an exploiter gets to max level quickly. Woo. They then get bored, rant that there's no content, and leave. I'm here for the fun of playing. My only response to someone who games the system that way is to think they're lame, and put them on ignore so I never have to deal with them.
You can't ever stop people who want to exploit from exploiting. That doesn't mean I am advocating no safeguards, but many people seem to be arguing for such extensive safeguards that the Foundry is limited to such a degree that all fun is lost.
If we as a community make our displeasure with such people known, then it becomes less of an issue. And also, isn't there going to be some sort of a volunteer group who will be playing through the missions before they go live to make sure this isn't happening? That brings forth a bunch of other problems, but still... if they let easy street exploitative missions through, it seems like all we as the community would have to do is report it and they'll be removed from office.
Exactly it will be community's fault. Whether we bother with exploiters or not, cryptic can't let its game be exploited. As it is f2p, and IP bans don't always work(as shown by ambi before) they are going to implement things to stop exploiters which will punish normal missions too otherwise.
If we are not taking up pitchforks to at least minimize the exploiting, if not completely clean it, we are going to suffer.
I would suggest that guilds take it up and make sure that anyone caught exploiting is held answerable when joining their guild and they make a common statement not to support any exploiting in game as a part of their guild motto. That can help bring things like this to limelight and highlight the harm such dishonorable behavior brings to the game.
Yes. To expand on this and prior and subsequent quotes.
While you can place simple monsters, they will not drop anything at all or drop really low treasure (think 1 cp) and the end chest will be the low to lowest level of reward.
It's all internally controlled and not exploitable by the author.
Also those who are trying to front load a system to max xp by slaughtering a bunch of low levels not only will stop getting xp for their character's level being too high, there is a limit to monsters that can be placed in a foundry mission. People who figure out how to make "defenseless" monsters killable for xp and treasure will have their methods removed, but all I can say is it looks like so far that isn't an option for authors.
Absolutely! Both in the same map and linked to another dungeon map.
They are taking steps to make sure people cannot game the system, and have effectively turned foundry into a viable gameplay mechanic that has incentives for playing.
but I play one on the forums...
:P
Then your metrics will work the same way as any Cryptic quest, with no exploits allowed by the author. Of course, feel free to use any legal methods found in game to maximize treasure and XP without having to wait for cannon missions of course.
I am also hoping that since Cryptic has to approve each Foundry quest, that the worst offenders will never have their creations see the light of day.
This is the reason that earlier quicky missions became popular with people who generally do not exploit the game. Hence rewards available in foundry should also never be such that you cannot get from elsewhere. You should never be forced to do foundry mission.
however recent trend of defanging monsters for XP is ethically wrong itself and is a clear cut case of exploiting (from the definition I read on PWE's rules page somewhere)
EDIT:
What I mean is that Cryptic also has a duty to not encourage exploiters.
I say that to give insight on where I am coming from... that said: Exploiting is everyone's responsibility to police. (assuming they don't support exploiting) Cryptic should be looking to build a system that is solid enough that exploits are difficult to accomplish. Of course, someone will figure out some way to exploit it in some way. It then becomes the job of the community to handle the exploit responsibily. And of course Cryptic should be itteratively fixing exploits etc. This is all in a perfect world... no pun intended.
In reality, there will be some people who exploit for gains, and many who will enjoy content that is deep and engaging. If someone wants to max xp and loot--- assuming they can find a way to do so... I guess good for them, until cryptic fixes or bans them. It absolutely can mess up the enconomy at large and that is the biggest risk as far as I can see. That and having Foundry options/content disabled because of the exploiting mechanics. But thats how UGC goes... its not perfect.
It seems like there is a lot of thought going toward the safeguards here, and this is the third (right?) itteration of the foundry for cryptic, so I am sure they have learned more on what works and what doesn't. Hopefully, it is as good as we hope and exploiting is difficult. If not, let's hope it doesnt ruin the game.
Dont get me wrong im not an XP chaser or a max level fanatic. I just love to play something that is a great source of entertainment as GW2 was before they started nerfing and changing everthing.