I saw a demo on youtube with the guardian fighter and control wizard. The wizard went Down and the tank revived her, wich makes me wonder about the dependency on healers with rezzing.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
If dying, it seems like another PC can "revive via first aid." Woe be it to the solo player who goes down then....
But as noted in other threads, if you are dead alone, you have a scroll that pops you back up at a campfire/respawn or another scroll that pops you up with some limited health.
Currently we use Raise Dead scrolls and resurrection scrolls that are spent to revive yourself either where you have fallen or at the last respawn point you visited (depending on which scrolls you have handy). If you expend absolutely all your scrolls, I believe you just release back to a safe zone.
Keep in mind that the above may change, but I doubt the death penalty will be harsh or frustrating for players.
I saw a demo on youtube with the guardian fighter and control wizard. The wizard went Down and the tank revived her, wich makes me wonder about the dependency on healers with rezzing.
Perhaps healing classes can just do it better? Maybe getting rezzed via a scroll or non-healer class, ust gives you the bare minimum, while a healer class can revive a player with full health or maybe without a rez penalty?
If dying, it seems like another PC can "revive via first aid." Woe be it to the solo player who goes down then....
But as noted in other threads, if you are dead alone, you have a scroll that pops you back up at a campfire/respawn or another scroll that pops you up with some limited health.
Oh I might have missed that, from the post by crypticmapolis I understood you have two types of scrolls, one that raises you right where you have died and one that raises you at your last spawn point. Nothing mentions if it the raises will give you full life or less etc. If you have none of either scroll you will just respawn at a "safe zone".
Either way It's not looking like it will be different if you are solo or not, or did you see something about this in another thread I missed?
Currently we use Raise Dead scrolls and resurrection scrolls that are spent to revive yourself either where you have fallen or at the last respawn point you visited (depending on which scrolls you have handy). If you expend absolutely all your scrolls, I believe you just release back to a safe zone.
Keep in mind that the above may change, but I doubt the death penalty will be harsh or frustrating for players.
Oh I might have missed that, from the post by crypticmapolis I understood you have two types of scrolls, one that raises you right where you have died and one that raises you at your last spawn point. Nothing mentions if it the raises will give you full life or less etc. If you have none of either scroll you will just respawn at a "safe zone".
Either way It's not looking like it will be different if you are solo or not, or did you see something about this in another thread I missed?
Well, somewhere else it mentioned these campfires did healing so took it to respawning was full healing and the other you get some unknown healing portion back.
Well, somewhere else it mentioned these campfires did healing so took it to respawning was full healing and the other you get some unknown healing portion back.
Oky so an educated guess then, wasn't sure if maybe there was more info elsewhere on how healing/ressing will be handled.
I don't want to be a nuisance but might wanna hear me out on this one ? Clerics on NWN had res spells. Right ? I played on a mod that had multiple spell changes and they had started to implement 3.5e, while the original systems were of 3.0e (i think).
So Raise dead was the first one to learn, it left your target injured but alive. Resurrection included a heal with the service. True resurrection had extended range and it was therefore possible to cast it without endangering the cleric. Next there was an epic spell with extra requirements, with almost infinite range and a mass res that had 1 or 2 charges/rest. This one resurrected the whole party and placed a Sanctuary on them for a few seconds. There were also summoned entities in the game, these lasted a few turns and had resurrection or other spells to cast on the nearest (dead) ally. (Bards used these, who are also healers).
You can see that dedicated clerics can be very much better at resing/healing. Healing spells had similar scaling to them, like aoe heals and cures that removed all kinds of curses. etc. Some form of a healer can actually be indispensable on certain runs.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't want to be a nuisance but might wanna hear me out on this one ? Clerics on NWN had res spells. Right ? I played on a mod that had multiple spell changes and they had started to implement 3.5e, while the original systems were of 3.0e (i think).
So Raise dead was the first one to learn, it left your target injured but alive. Resurrection included a heal with the service. True resurrection had extended range and it was therefore possible to cast it without endangering the cleric. Next there was an epic spell with extra requirements, with almost infinite range and a mass res that had 1 or 2 charges/rest. This one resurrected the whole party and placed a Sanctuary on them for a few seconds. There were also summoned entities in the game, these lasted a few turns and had resurrection or other spells to cast on the nearest (dead) ally. (Bards used these, who are also healers).
You can see that dedicated clerics can be very much better at resing/healing. Healing spells had similar scaling to them, like aoe heals and cures that removed all kinds of curses. etc. Some form of a healer can actually be indispensable on certain runs.
The thing is you;'re using both 3.5 rules and spells. This is 4e themed which as neither multiple raising options nor spells for this. It uses one ritual, Raise Dead, which also are available on scrolls. If they have variants, it's a gaming house rule and certainly not castable by said cleric class unless that class has the ability to learn rituals. And while pretty close to the vest, they would have mentioned if we could learn rituals or spells to raise by now when the info for raising PC's was leaked if you will.
So it's likely one class is not going to raise another PC, and this is all going to be done on scroll IMO.
I guess i had best to shut up and wait for the game to launch. I think while they are working on an adaptation of 4e to digital, they might as well take a broader view and try to integrate all versions 1e-4e. If that would only allow for clerics with healing cap. But my ideas are quite over the top, as usual.
I am a little concerned on how healing will be after watching the video's on the other classes. They talk about left and right mouse buttons for attacks. Will the Cleric have enough functions to solo \ damage and heal? Will the mouse buttons be intended to heal and damage at the same time? Is the healing like a stand back and heal behind the tank or in the mix with melee?
I am a little concerned on how healing will be after watching the video's on the other classes. They talk about left and right mouse buttons for attacks. Will the Cleric have enough functions to solo \ damage and heal? Will the mouse buttons be intended to heal and damage at the same time? Is the healing like a stand back and heal behind the tank or in the mix with melee?
If you played RaiderZ, you can get an idea of how healing can work in absence of tab targeted system. I think NW cleric will be a lot closer to RaiderZ cleric.
I have to agree with this statement, and as a long time player of healers in other MMO's which use tab targeting the RaiderZ approach is nothing short of a revelation when you first see it used or use it yourself. If they stick to this approach it will be quite pleseant. although i want to add that i don't think of clerics as being "healers" in the sense that people have come to associate with role due to MMO's. D&D clerics are much more than healbots to begin with, any reliance on healer/tank/dps model in NW would be a mistake on he part of the player as i simply doesn' apply to D&D.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2012
I'm just worried if they are the only launched healing class they may be too powerful and/or too relied on as said healbots only in groups.
Ok, that's probably how healing will work in NW too... frankly it's much better than the classical healing spam, as long as you have some nice abilities.
Yeah but ground targeted heals are not very useful in a lot of fights depending on the mob you are fighting. If its a mob that runs all over the place it makes healing pretty hard as the group has to move around to catch the mob and avoid damage, but i will wait to see.
I'm just worried if they are the only launched healing class they may be too powerful and/or too relied on as said healbots only in groups.
Healing classes are rarely over powered as they do not do enough damage to take any benefit from the heals, they just stand there and take a beating until the run out of juice haha tbh i don't mind being a heal bot as i like healing that's what i do.
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karischMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I am looking forward to playing a healing cleric, i have always played a healer and to be honest playing a game that doesnt require the holy trinity is fine as long as it doesnt stop a person choosing to tank or heal if that is their prefered playstyle.
I have found that playing a game that doesnt allow me to directly heal party members to be honest quite boring, putting down aoe heals on the floor where players invariably are not by the time you have placed it, its quite frankly useless.
I never realised i would miss healing until i played a game where i couldn't do it.
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gernMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
I honestly liked the healing in Tera a lot better than RaiderZ and wish it would use something more akin to that system. They had several circle heals. One you cast around you, one that is cast 10 meters in front of you, and they also had lockon heals. You put your reticle over 1 or 2 people and lockon to cast heals on specific targets. It was very fun and you had to learn the proper distance to stand to cast your best heals since the circle was a set distance in front of you. RaiderZ just seemed like a dumbed down version of Tera's healing.
Old Neverwinter Night 3.5 healing for me . If people remember you would click on their avatar hence selecting them - then bang a heal or whatever spell you want down targeted to said person.
I completely agree with this. And though it doesn't take away that Raiderz healing is a lot more interactive than most modern MMOs out today, I wish for more Tera dynamics and hope NW implements a nice balance of healing spells and abilities for those who choose that profession. Also, I really hate the term healbot; very snarky and elitist. I'll admit some games healing isn't a challenge, but others you need skill to keep the party alive. And while it may not be everyone's cup of tea, neither is straight dps'ing.
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eqballzzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Healing classes are rarely over powered as they do not do enough damage to take any benefit from the heals, they just stand there and take a beating until the run out of juice haha tbh i don't mind being a heal bot as i like healing that's what i do.
I don't get the idea that healers are OP (with regard to healing). They should be OP in that respect because healers give up a lot in terms of DPS. Besides, there needs to be incentive to play a healer so there are healers in the game and not all DPS/tanks. As mentioned by someone else in this thread it's not good if people are waiting around for healers to log on. Make healers valuable in what they provide to a group and that won't be a problem.
Comments
St. Augustinus
But as noted in other threads, if you are dead alone, you have a scroll that pops you back up at a campfire/respawn or another scroll that pops you up with some limited health.
Fiona Bauerstone - Devoted Cleric - Dragon Server
Oh I might have missed that, from the post by crypticmapolis I understood you have two types of scrolls, one that raises you right where you have died and one that raises you at your last spawn point. Nothing mentions if it the raises will give you full life or less etc. If you have none of either scroll you will just respawn at a "safe zone".
Either way It's not looking like it will be different if you are solo or not, or did you see something about this in another thread I missed?
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Well, somewhere else it mentioned these campfires did healing so took it to respawning was full healing and the other you get some unknown healing portion back.
Oky so an educated guess then, wasn't sure if maybe there was more info elsewhere on how healing/ressing will be handled.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
So Raise dead was the first one to learn, it left your target injured but alive. Resurrection included a heal with the service. True resurrection had extended range and it was therefore possible to cast it without endangering the cleric. Next there was an epic spell with extra requirements, with almost infinite range and a mass res that had 1 or 2 charges/rest. This one resurrected the whole party and placed a Sanctuary on them for a few seconds. There were also summoned entities in the game, these lasted a few turns and had resurrection or other spells to cast on the nearest (dead) ally. (Bards used these, who are also healers).
You can see that dedicated clerics can be very much better at resing/healing. Healing spells had similar scaling to them, like aoe heals and cures that removed all kinds of curses. etc. Some form of a healer can actually be indispensable on certain runs.
The thing is you;'re using both 3.5 rules and spells. This is 4e themed which as neither multiple raising options nor spells for this. It uses one ritual, Raise Dead, which also are available on scrolls. If they have variants, it's a gaming house rule and certainly not castable by said cleric class unless that class has the ability to learn rituals. And while pretty close to the vest, they would have mentioned if we could learn rituals or spells to raise by now when the info for raising PC's was leaked if you will.
So it's likely one class is not going to raise another PC, and this is all going to be done on scroll IMO.
if Undead around i would think yes
I have to agree with this statement, and as a long time player of healers in other MMO's which use tab targeting the RaiderZ approach is nothing short of a revelation when you first see it used or use it yourself. If they stick to this approach it will be quite pleseant. although i want to add that i don't think of clerics as being "healers" in the sense that people have come to associate with role due to MMO's. D&D clerics are much more than healbots to begin with, any reliance on healer/tank/dps model in NW would be a mistake on he part of the player as i simply doesn' apply to D&D.
Yeah but ground targeted heals are not very useful in a lot of fights depending on the mob you are fighting. If its a mob that runs all over the place it makes healing pretty hard as the group has to move around to catch the mob and avoid damage, but i will wait to see.
Healing classes are rarely over powered as they do not do enough damage to take any benefit from the heals, they just stand there and take a beating until the run out of juice haha tbh i don't mind being a heal bot as i like healing that's what i do.
I have found that playing a game that doesnt allow me to directly heal party members to be honest quite boring, putting down aoe heals on the floor where players invariably are not by the time you have placed it, its quite frankly useless.
I never realised i would miss healing until i played a game where i couldn't do it.
Recruitment is CLOSED!!
I don't get the idea that healers are OP (with regard to healing). They should be OP in that respect because healers give up a lot in terms of DPS. Besides, there needs to be incentive to play a healer so there are healers in the game and not all DPS/tanks. As mentioned by someone else in this thread it's not good if people are waiting around for healers to log on. Make healers valuable in what they provide to a group and that won't be a problem.
No. They are generally OP.
You see, it is the case of demand and supply. Healer class everywhere is high demand. Supply is short. So they are always OP.
And healing is not OP. Healing is one aspect of healer among many other - just like Selune is not Sehnine and Sehanine is just one aspect of Selune.