test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Being Evil, Role Playing and Classes
nemesis788450
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
it seems d&d 4e doesnt really want you to play an evil character? most (except maybe warlock) classes seem to be geared towards a "good" character... i am missing exclusively evil or good classes - such as black guard etc... im missing the more dark classes such as pale master etc... i am missing the option to specialize in certain types of magic to create a rp character - such as a necromancer...
overall it seems d&d4 and therefore also neverwinter is geared towards playing a 0815 "truly heroic" goodie twoshoes without any room to roleplay?
overall it seems d&d4 and therefore also neverwinter is geared towards playing a 0815 "truly heroic" goodie twoshoes without any room to roleplay?
Post edited by nemesis788450 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
p.s. Also, I find irony in your statement as blackguard and necromancer classes exists in 4e.
Other books having classes are - divine <<something>>, arcane <<something>>, martial <<something>> 1, martial <<something>> 2, primal <<something>>.
Shadow-war is integral to neverwinter. There is a mirror image of neverwinter city in shadow world <<Forgot name but something night, perhaps evernight??>>. So it is "Core" to neverwinter.
Many evil/dubious shadow classes exist - necromancer(using shadow and death), shadowmancer (using arcane+shadow), Assassin (silent murderer), Blackguard (shadow+divine) witches etc.
Whole race of beings who delve in pain and pleasure exists - shadar-kai. Also vampires(non-twilight ones).
However, will they only be monsters in game or player characters too? That will depend on the story as well as audience intended. If game-makers don't want us to play evil, those classes won't make it as shadow source is corrupt in itself.
Here and here for some more info.
Regardless I'll be role-playing a solid evil character for Neverwinter whether it's geared towards that or not.
wondering if the game will adapt to the 5th edition (seems to be in the making for 2013)...
Not really. Nothing stopped you from worshiping an evil diety and playing evil character. The reason those classes were introduced later as many of them were in places which the old players knew less about. So they wanted to introduce the world gradually. There is no reason not to have evil druid or evil cleric. Even evil paladin is possible if it worships evil diety. This is much more evil-friendly than 3e.
However, D&D does advise in all editions (not just 4th) that for official campaigns, you must ask DM if evil characters are allowed. That is because many campaigns are written for non-evil characters. Other players will get annoyed if they know that they can't rely on companions as they can be evil so may not like the game - D&D being heavily party dependent.
Yeah I think making alignment a Role Playing thing was the best route Cryptic could have went, it could have gotten a bit cumbersome if they added an actual in game system in DDO you can't play an evil alignment and it restricts advancement in certain cases which are common complaints.
Letting folks list their alignment on their Character sheet and RP that if they wish or not is a step up IMO.
And totally agree about other players getting annoyed...we had one guy in our group who insisted on playing a chaotic evil character every time...and could never understand that angry village mobs would try to hunt you down if you tried to sacrifice their friends and neighbors...he didn't stay with the group that long though.
How to play a lawful evil character in 4e:
1 Pick a specific belief system or set of actions that you are adverse to, as well as a group of people or type of creature that you find abhorrent. Your judgmental attitude and blind dedication to tradition as a lawful evil character should put you at odds with progressive ideas, opposing religious beliefs, and people from different cultures.
2 Plan evil deeds or acts of depravity, only if that action will help you make an otherwise arduous task easy. A lawful evil character would kidnap a royal monarch and threaten to kill him if certain demands are not met, but he would not indiscriminately kidnap and murder random people. Do not specifically set out to commit evil acts or harm innocents.
3 Work within the general boundaries of the law but ignore any ethical considerations. If you are playing a lawful evil merchant, you should be willing to ruthlessly root out your competition by doing underhanded things such as buying out services that your competition needs and then denying them access to those services. You might also sell pilfered goods at rock bottom prices or even send thugs to threaten the families of competing merchants.
4 Plant evidence of wrong doing or put an enemy into a compromising situation which would discredit her. If the boundaries of the law do not allow outright physical confrontation you could hire an assassin to do the work for you.
5 Avoid chaotic good characters, as they are the antithesis to your belief set and will cause you the most problems. If there are chaotic good characters in your party, take every opportunity to subvert their influence and make them look incompetent.
6 Commit evil acts when absolutely necessary or when there is only a small chance of being caught. Lawful evil characters thrive when they appear to be upstanding moral citizens, or when there simply is not enough evidence to prove otherwise.
7 Use sneaky tactics such as blackmail whenever possible. While these sort of tactics won't be of much use against mindless creatures, there are plenty of intelligent enemies who can be successfully coerced or blackmailed.
8 Create a code of honor that you will not break under any circumstances. It should include acts that are deemed too chaotic or immoral to even consider, such as torture.
A lawful evil character in a group of mostly good aligned characters can lead to serious conflict. While this can add a fun dynamic to the game, it can become distracting. Good characters could be prone to turn your character into the authorities. Or in an MMO game like Neverwinter, people may just not want to run with you, might boot you out of your guild, or evil actions might even prompt complaints to an in game GM, etc...
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Oh sure we have had large groups of evil individuals work together successfully before, I mean just look at the IRS, Amway and the cast of American Idol. b:chuckle
That is the reason I was referring to. Evil PC make good campaigns, but you need to be forewarned that one person may or maynot be evil. That way it doesn't destroy your fun.
It's great if it works...the couple times I tried it the entire game shifted to "finding out who the evil one was" Still fun but took the campaign way off track, which upset a couple players.
It's a balancing act to be sure.
First off, one of the problems with listing all 4E classes is some of them may only be D&D Insider and that's a Sub only site. I tried to find a place that listed 4E classes publicly and I did so here.
Secondly, this game will not be following in D&D NEXT or 5th edition. It was created when 4th ed was new and then revamped to be made into an MMO after being sold to PWE. There's no way this can financially be redone for a delay of two years or more (the play-test will be at least two years let alone time to work on a revamp.)
Everything else is pretty good except there is no LE in 4th ed, something I wholly disagree with in its entirety (the 4E alignment changes.)
Was pointing out how the literal book flavor was, not what you could change based on what your DM would allow. I'm staring at the Phb 1, 2, and 3 right now and there's nothing particularly evil in any of them outside of arguing that barbarian and fighter brutality is evil although that's pretty weak. The evil deities listed have no associated picture and have no detailed descriptions unless you look in the DMG, which I'm going to point out is a way of saying "you ought to be good, neutral, or unaligned" since you need to go out of your way as a player to ask permission to be evil.
That was what I was talking about in regard to them sorta designing the game with a more good approach in mind. ALSO most of the actual powers have no evil flavor written into them at all.
3.5 was much more evil friendly in that there were specific races and classes that auto-classed you as a more evil character weather it be necromancy or becoming an assassin.
Well that said my ancestors were Vikings and dark has interesting appeal... My favorite movies are Action and Horror movies.
Neverwinter does maybe not have so many Evil to play opportunities in the main campaign. However that does not put limits to FOUNDRY created instances.
I really don't listen to Dark Metal. However Sirenia is from Norway and they play Gothics(horror)/symphonic metal. Here some inspiration to those who want create Evil adventures:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dJdWT2urzM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEttvTN_hpA
Yeah well as for movies I can recommend: Ginger Snaps(2000), Dog Soldiers(2002), The Descent(2005), 28 Weeks Later(2007) and TV series True Blood and The Vampire Diaries. Well there see some inspiration. Ok my post had maybe more horror inspiration, but that can be pretty evil.
Oh and one more thing Damon Salvatore character in the series The Vampire Diaries is certainly not a good Vampire though the series shows that there can be many levels of how evil.
We focus so much on "Chaotic Evil" (aka Chaotic Stupid aka Moronic Evil) that we really don't think through "what is evil".
Check out this post of mine and see what you think.
Evil isn't necessarily randomly malicious, I'd say normally it's not at all... Because evil characters have a sense of self-preservation. And evil is no stupider than good. Evil characters will work hand-in-hand with others of any persuasion and work with them well!... So long as it doesn't conflict with their own goals and beliefs. And they'll generally follow the social and legal moors of their environment, again - so long as it doesn't conflict with their own goals and beliefs. It's frequently only when push comes to shove that you even realise that they are in fact evil!
To complicate matters it's rarely cut-and-dried. Good and evil can exist within one character. And a character can oscillate between the two. Good men perform evil acts for the common good (e.g., soldiers). And evil men can do good things (Dexter is evil, but he does good things and he uses his evil to remove evil from the world).
I suspect those who "dumb down" encounters and such are used to dealing with Chaotic Stupid and thinking it's evil.
Discussion what is evil in real life all boils down to political talking and stuff which is very flammable material.
Though long discussions on this have taken place but results are yet not conclusive if evil is "selfishness" or "harmful to PC" or intension or actions.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Yeah well it could be like a Cleric of Bane:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bane_%28Forgotten_Realms%29
and then we have the Zhentarim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhentarim
Anyway instead of be so good and please kill the nasty Werewolf or defeat the Vampires you could maybe be offered a very shady and dark deal by them. Yeah the risk is you get killed, but lets say you would encounter a werewolf in human form and it would offer you a shady deal like steal or kill someone.
Yeah alignment came with the game from the very beginning. Ignoring it is wrong. I say Cryptic should have put alignment into the game, if all it meant were Foundry dreamweavers could make some awesome ugc surrounding it.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Overall I like Andre's response... But I have some alternatives, based on my previous post. And some bits I don't totally agree with.
*sigh* I know. Luckily it's more about certain aspects of how you play your PC than anything else. So we can still play evil PCs.
"One way..."
1. Pick one or two specific goals that drive your character. This goal is something your character will perform almost any act to further. Think big, but think smart. Revenge, glory and greed are often useful here.
2. Give your PC a positive emotional element. A moral code, a code of honour, a loved one or something similar.
3. Draw a line which your character will not step over. This will generally have connections to 1 and 2 above.
4. Give your character a reason for cooperating with others. This will probably marry with items 1-3 above. It's useful in cementing the character's relationship with the adventuring group.
5. Blend in. You don't need to walk around with a black helmet and funny breathing, or wrapping yourself in a cape going "mmuhahahaha". Evil is within. The most dangerous evil wears a nice suit and a sweet smile. So follow the laws and social moors around you when you don't have a good reason to contravene them.
6. Evil acts are a last resort. You have no qualms resorting to them. But you know if you get caught it's going to be a serious hassle. Manacles and the chopping block are a serious impediment to achieve Your Goal!
7. It's only a crime if you get caught. Only employ evil acts when you know for sure you can get away with it. And that means your buddy the goody-two-shoes Paladin can never, ever know about it.
Using a patsy, an assassin or a hireling. Framing up someone else (preferably who everyone thinks is a villain). Anything that removes you directly from the evil act. All of these things are important and covered by points 5-7
Dee was only 8 years old when they came for her parents. In the night. Demon, they called her handsome Father. Witch, her beautiful Mother. Well Dee would find them all, one by one. Oh she knew their faces and now she had The Power to punish them properly. Her body, abused over her decade as a homeless orphan, was strong now. But not as strong as her spirit! Nor as strong as the fire she could pour forth at will! And she had her new friends to stand by her. And to stand by. But they must never know of her plans for those... those filth!
Oh they would burn. As would their families before them.
But not the children. Never the children.
Any evil character can be a serous problem. They need to be played both intelligently and maturely. But done properly I truly believe there shouldn't be a serious problem.
Being evil doesn't mean any of that. If one member of my party has outlived their usefulness so what? What motivation does that give me to betray or kill them? If the whole party is no longer of use to me? Well trying to kill them... Is that smart? An intelligent evil PC would simply find a reason to leave them, not betray them. And the fact is in the setting we are talking about the party is a hugely danegrous group and as such a precious resource to someone with their own agenda. It's worth going out of your way to make sure they are on your side and make sure they feel protective of you!
Now that I think of it, watch most TTarantino filmms to question what is dark and what is moral.
imagine a dnd /forgotten realms world where evil character roam freely into cities with no negative effects on trade or watsoever
where there no evil like red wizards zhent etc such perfect world is no a dnd/forgotten world
i would rather game be delay for another 6 mth just to c this being implemented
fat hope i would sayb:cry
Lawful:- Control freak
Chaotic:- Hedonistic
Good:- Selfless
Evil:- Selfish
LG:- I am a controlling you for your own good.
LE:- I am controlling you for your own good - which is basically my good. For in my good is your good. Bwahahaha!!!
CG:- I take pleasure in selfless service (And I like self-multilation and Illmater)
CE:- I take pleasure in destruction as long as it doesn't harm me.
4E took out selfish control freaks. Otherwise it has everything.
EDIT: I want a character which is 20%L, 20%C, 20%G, 20%E and rest unaligned.
EDIT2:
Good-Evil alignment :- A selflessly selfish person.
Lawful-Chaotic:- Hedonistic control freak (A person who drives immense pleasure from their ability to control).
Everything?
4E alignments as per the Phb ->
✦ Good: Freedom and kindness.
✦ Lawful Good: Civilization and order.
✦ Evil: Tyranny and hatred.
✦ Chaotic Evil: Entropy and destruction.
✦ Unaligned: Having no alignment; not taking a stand.
No more neutral alignments, and no lawful evil OR chaotic good.
Chaotic evil is my pathb:laughb:laugh
Mad chaotic evil wizard or a modern mad evil genius