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In favor of the Monks

jogoskanindragonjogoskanindragon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 143 Bounty Hunter
edited October 2012 in General Discussion (PC)
So, its only me or we all love monks?b:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased

Mechanicaly is not a hard class to implement, right? What we can wait for? Monks as a Vip (or purshasable) class? We have any word about this? Any mention?


I really want get a monk and start run and jump around, delivering punches on monsters (and players) faces!!!
Post edited by jogoskanindragon on
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Comments

  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Actually meh, I'm not a big fan of monks. They're a class based on orientalist vision of Asian culture and a bunch of cheap kung-fu movies. I've also always found them to be rather deficient in D&D or any D&D-based game that didn't artificially strengthen them for various reasons (e.g. NWN2 because you've got a primary side-character as one, DDO because they wanted people to pay them money etc.).

    So nah, monks are no priority for me, though I wouldn't mind seeing them, BUT ONLY as long as they keep them down-to-earth and make them fit the lore - I've always felt that monks in BG2 of DDO looked and felt horribly out of place.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    You can love your monk all you want but they will never love you back, being detached and stuff.
    I respect your one sided love though :p

    In 4e, it is a psion class, so I believe it would take some time. First they might like to introduce some divine, arcane martial and primal class.
  • aeternys123aeternys123 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2012
    Monk is cool... but let's make sure the paladin, ranger, avenger, warlock, bard, barbarian, druid, invoker, shaman, warlord, and warden make it into the game first..

    After all they're the classes in the 4.0 players handbooks 1 + 2


    Although I'd be fine without some of them (warlord by far the most useless from a video game perspective) they should really focus on the more core D&D classes in the 4.0 system to start with.



    :)
  • enygmasoulenygmasoul Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Ever since its debut in the earlier editions, the Monk has gotten slightly less useful in every subsequent published version of D&D, I've found. They were an obscenely strong class in 1st edition Oriental Adventures, was notably absent from 2nd edition, was really only good for beelining past the enemy ranks to try and disable casters in 3e, and in 4th? They're fit into the same Striker role as a rogue, but beyond slightly better area of effect options, are honestly not as good at it.

    That being said, I'm probably one of the few people on the planet who (although i acknowledged it was one of the weaker classes) didn't think the 3e Monk was a totally worthless investment :)
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use "
    -- Galileo Galilei
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Might be a tad HELLS YEAH biased to monk....
    enygmasoul wrote: »
    Ever since its debut in the earlier editions, the Monk has gotten slightly less useful in every subsequent published version of D&D, I've found. They were an obscenely strong class in 1st edition Oriental Adventures, was notably absent from 2nd edition, was really only good for beelining past the enemy ranks to try and disable casters in 3e, and in 4th? They're fit into the same Striker role as a rogue, but beyond slightly better area of effect options, are honestly not as good at it.

    That being said, I'm probably one of the few people on the planet who (although i acknowledged it was one of the weaker classes) didn't think the 3e Monk was a totally worthless investment :)


    Monks were released in the 2nd ed Faiths and Avatars book. In my personal opinion, they stunk both compared to the 1st ed and the subsequent 3rd-4th ed version releases.

    3rd ed I played Evenflow a Human Monk in my RPGA for years. He was named after the Way of the River but suffered Pearl Jam singing at him (and players thought like nobody ever did that before...never got old) for many many many years. Then they had the nerve to act like my master of wisdom was a dumb thing! After all, Master Cliche' had to be wise and new sometime in history and that was when! Nobody ever saw a bald old blind master of Martial Arts then, and he saved many a life with such wise words as "look before you leap!" Ahh...good times!

    4th Edition I have been playing a Githzerai monk with a name that escapes me at the moment....something seeker...whatever, not a big name b:chuckle. He recently succeeded (in the 4th edition timeline) Against The Giants.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • muzrub333muzrub333 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Monks were cool, not sure about the pscionic version though. Being able to basically fall forever as long as you were close to a wall was great fun. I think a Dragonborn Monk would be pretty fun, or the ultimate...Gnomercy from the Gnomonk! I'm a Monster!

    I always liked the anti-paladin (other than the CE thing) and would definitely play a Blackguard if they were ever in game. I prefer the anti-heroic to the heroic as far as my characters.
  • pilf3rpilf3r Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Eh I'm kind of tired of seeing monks hop around like bunnies. Would prefer the classes mentioned in aeternys123 post with paladin being my first pick.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Neverwinter Thieves Guild
  • enygmasoulenygmasoul Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Might be a tad HELLS YEAH biased to monk....




    Monks were released in the 2nd ed Faiths and Avatars book. In my personal opinion, they stunk both compared to the 1st ed and the subsequent 3rd-4th ed version releases.

    3rd ed I played Evenflow a Human Monk in my RPGA for years. He was named after the Way of the River but suffered Pearl Jam singing at him (and players thought like nobody ever did that before...never got old) for many many many years. Then they had the nerve to act like my master of wisdom was a dumb thing! After all, Master Cliche' had to be wise and new sometime in history and that was when! Nobody ever saw a bald old blind master of Martial Arts then, and he saved many a life with such wise words as "look before you leap!" Ahh...good times!

    4th Edition I have been playing a Githzerai monk with a name that escapes me at the moment....something seeker...whatever, not a big name b:chuckle. He recently succeeded (in the 4th edition timeline) Against The Giants.

    Was Faiths and Avatars' version the psuedo-monk Priest kit? I remember one that got divine spell progression and hand to hand, but outside of the hand to hand, had none of the flavor of the OA class. I considered that one such a poor excuse for a monk that I didn't even bother mentioning it in my tally :)

    My favorite monk I've played was Bounder, a Monk 7/Psychic Warrior 6 multi-class that I put together with a friend in 3.0 specifically to see if we could abuse the text on jump checks that let you multiply the distance when you were moving at higher than base 30 move speed. He ended up being able to clear close to a football field in a horizontal leap, and because high movespeed was the design element that allowed for it, spent his non-adventuring time hiring himself as a courier service in the area around Cormyr.

    Sadly, the 3.5 revisions to jump checks crippled his build :)
    "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use "
    -- Galileo Galilei
  • remedialhappymanremedialhappyman Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Like I said in a separate thread if you have to buy classes that would kill my day. Class composition affects gameplay and if you sell things that affect gameplay thats definitely a pay to win game.

    Like I said before make it subscription if you have to but don't restrict content based on micro-transaction.
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Like I said in a separate thread if you have to buy classes that would kill my day. Class composition affects gameplay and if you sell things that affect gameplay thats definitely a pay to win game.

    Like I said before make it subscription if you have to but don't restrict content based on micro-transaction.

    classes and campaigns are not pay to unlock. This has been confirmed many times by devs. Though they have not sorted out yet what the convenience items and consumables they want to add, they have reiterated many times that class and campaigns won't be paid. If somebody else asks you, tell them this too :)
  • jedidethfreak823jedidethfreak823 Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I liked my 3.5 Monk. My DM and play group didn't, since I RP'ed him as being a kick-assed martial artsy version of a Christian monk ala the Middle Ages.

    Every time we came upon an Orc or Goblin to kill, I'd start the battle by going up to the monster and asking (in a very high-pitched, nasal-sounding and whiny British accent) "Do yew aksept the Lawduh Jaysus Kryst tew bee yeaw Lawduh and Sayviah?!"

    After about five Orcs, my whole play group hated it. I thought it was hilarious!
  • jedidethfreak823jedidethfreak823 Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    gillrmn wrote: »
    classes and campaigns are not pay to unlock. This has been confirmed many times by devs. Though they have not sorted out yet what the convenience items and consumables they want to add, they have reiterated many times that class and campaigns won't be paid. If somebody else asks you, tell them this too :)

    As has been stated many times as well, the people saying that not only have a bad track record when it comes to such stuff not being paid, they've actually stated that with both of their more recent games, and it turned out to not be the case.

    Point to PWE all you want, until they actually outline what they're going to do (which I bet they won't do until right before launch, since that, too, is standard operating procedure at Cryptci), you can't say for certain that this is the case - they've said the exact same things before.
  • beatrixareforkidsbeatrixareforkids Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Loved both my monks from 3rd Edition. The Sacred Fist was my first guy but when i got my hands on the Enlightened Fist PrC she became my favorite character of all time.

    Enlightened Fist was a Monk / Arcane combo or gish. Pretty sure the requirements were...

    Imp. Unarmed Strike
    Stunning Fist
    Combat Casting
    3rd Level Arcane Spells
    Concentration (8) / Knowledge Arcane (5) / Spellcraft (5)

    Some of her PrC abilities were, she gained Monk Attack Bonus & Damage / AC / Stunning Attempts / Movement / Arcane Spellcasting 8 out 10 levels so she had good base advancement but the real fun came in the form of applying touch spells as unarmed attacks.

    It gave the class a lot of flavor and made combat very enjoyable. I used Sorcerer even though Wizard would have probably been stronger as i could have taken less Wizard level then Sorcerer but i felt like if a Monk was going to cast spells they would definitely be more spontaneous. Glad i did it too cause she was my favorite.

    She was a Half-Elf and i played it as being an orphan raised in a monastery to be Monk when she came of age the magical side of her elven mother started to blossom and she had an innate infinity to magic. It was her only link to her parents so she embraced it and tried to achieve balance between her physical prowess as a monk and her natural talent as a sorcerer.

    Her name was Shao Lin - I LOVED THAT CHARACTER. b:dirty
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    enygmasoul wrote: »
    Was Faiths and Avatars' version the psuedo-monk Priest kit? I remember one that got divine spell progression and hand to hand, but outside of the hand to hand, had none of the flavor of the OA class. I considered that one such a poor excuse for a monk that I didn't even bother mentioning it in my tally :)

    My favorite monk I've played was Bounder, a Monk 7/Psychic Warrior 6 multi-class that I put together with a friend in 3.0 specifically to see if we could abuse the text on jump checks that let you multiply the distance when you were moving at higher than base 30 move speed. He ended up being able to clear close to a football field in a horizontal leap, and because high movespeed was the design element that allowed for it, spent his non-adventuring time hiring himself as a courier service in the area around Cormyr.

    Sadly, the 3.5 revisions to jump checks crippled his build :)


    Yes it was.
    Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition (1989-1999)
    The monk was dropped as one of the standard character classes available in the second edition.[4][6] The Complete Priest's Handbook did, however, allow for clerics to take on some aspects of the monk class.
    The monk was reintroduced as a second edition class of the priest group in Faiths & Avatars and Player's Option: Spells & Magic. This version of the monk is a fully playable character class, but differs significantly from previous incarnations of the monk. This version of the monk gains priestly spells (though from different spheres of influence than the cleric) and retains skill with unarmed attacks and unarmored defenses, but no other abilities attributed to earlier versions of the monk.

    See the sucked reply in my former post.


    And in 3rd we all made monks that we did to break the Jump thing. For campaign reasons my pure monk respeced into a Monk/Paladin of Hiueronious/Sacred Fist in 3.5, but before then he could jump...I guess 3 football fields was around it maybe 3.5
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ryvvikryvvik Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 966 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2012
    monks stink, i dont think they belong but thats just me. Sorry Truth, maybe they need to bring back oriental AD&d back the wu-jen, ninja ect ect but would prefer to keep it way over
    > there
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ryvvik wrote: »
    monks stink, i dont think they belong but thats just me. Sorry Truth, maybe they need to bring back oriental AD&d back the wu-jen, ninja ect ect but would prefer to keep it way over
    > there
    I'm a fair and reasonable guy and I retort with this response


    Monks rock, LITERALLY!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • kittymofokittymofo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I'm in favor of dwarf monks! b:victory
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    kittymofo wrote: »
    I'm in favor of dwarf monks! b:victory

    Just trying to wrap my brain around a Dwarf monk....

    Nope..not happening...b:shocked
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Just trying to wrap my brain around a Dwarf monk....

    Nope..not happening...b:shocked


    Kinda Granite Ashford and Simpson meets Timex meets Energizer Bunny.....


    They are as solid as a rock, take a lickin' and keep on tickin' and go on and on and on....

    Strangers waiting, up and down the boulevard
    Their shadows searching in the night
    Streetlights people, living just to find emotion
    Hiding, somewhere in the night.

    Whoops, how did Journey get in there?

    But they rock too! :)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gillrmngillrmn Member Posts: 7,800 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Just trying to wrap my brain around a Dwarf monk....

    Nope..not happening...b:shocked

    Khelgar ... unless you never cared about completing his quests.
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    gillrmn wrote: »
    Khelgar ... unless you never cared about completing his quests.

    Yeah I got as far as Trial of the even-handed...just not my bag.

    When I think of Dwarves I think of Brueneor and Pwent, call me provincial.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • ausdoerrtausdoerrt Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    gillrmn wrote: »
    Khelgar ... unless you never cared about completing his quests.

    Funny thing is, even after all the trials and conversion and such, Khelgar never really behaved like much of a monk. So I'd say he didn't really work, though it was a nice try.

    I think most eastern-themed warriors should be kept for eastern-themed campaigns. Sword Coast is very much traditional Western medival, where religion doesn't go together with crazy hand-to-hand fighting.
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    ausdoerrt wrote: »
    Funny thing is, even after all the trials and conversion and such, Khelgar never really behaved like much of a monk. So I'd say he didn't really work, though it was a nice try.

    I think most eastern-themed warriors should be kept for eastern-themed campaigns. Sword Coast is very much traditional Western medival, where religion doesn't go together with crazy hand-to-hand fighting.

    True but the Realms are a big place with many different explorers,so I can see someone from Kara-Tur a monk perhaps traveling to the Sword coast. Just like in Medieval England there were many nationalities, you had the Moores and some Asian traders....so it's perfectly reasonable.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • iamtruthseekeriamtruthseeker Member, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    True but the Realms are a big place with many different explorers,so I can see someone from Kara-Tur a monk perhaps traveling to the Sword coast. Just like in Medieval England there were many nationalities, you had the Moores and some Asian traders....so it's perfectly reasonable.


    Now that you mention it: where's the Kara-Tur love? Besides a couple of articles like the shape changing Hengeyokai, we've almost never seen any lore on Kara-Tur for 4th ed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • stormdrag0nstormdrag0n Member Posts: 3,222 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Now that you mention it: where's the Kara-Tur love? Besides a couple of articles like the shape changing Hengeyokai, we've almost never seen any lore on Kara-Tur for 4th ed.

    4th ed had a really short life cycle, I was actually surprised they published as much as they did for it. at Gen-Con they said that they haven't "forgotten" Kara-Tur or Al-Qadim for D&D next.
    Always Looking for mature laidback players/rpers for Dungeon Delves!
  • borak2borak2 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I personally want to see Druids and Bards before any other class. Those are my two favorites. Psions would be my third choice.
  • health002health002 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 154 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2012
    what ever happen to Wild Mages ? did they blow them self's up? WTB wild-fire
  • firelordzx5firelordzx5 Member Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I want first the classes Paladin, swordmage and druid. but I want as alternative: Sorcerer and warlock maybe the invoker too ;) ... although, on second thought, maybe invokers are too OP :P

    warlords are more like a buff class, like a melee version of the bard class
  • valas625valas625 Member Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2012
    Monk is cool... but let's make sure the paladin, ranger, avenger, warlock, bard, barbarian, druid, invoker, shaman, warlord, and warden make it into the game first..

    After all they're the classes in the 4.0 players handbooks 1 + 2


    Although I'd be fine without some of them (warlord by far the most useless from a video game perspective) they should really focus on the more core D&D classes in the 4.0 system to start with.



    :)


    Um...you want invoker, warlord and warden in the game before monk? That's like eating corn peas and ice cream, then you'd like your steak. Some of the others make sense I suppose, since it is 4th E, but still. It's also D&D, which means we should get classic classes before ALL the new ones. I'd like if they did one new and one old class released each time personally. Those 3 are mostly support classes though. I'd rather have classes that don't rely on others to play. I love the bard, but I'd rather have single role characters first. Yea, it's an MMO, but it's hard to find people you like to play with online games. Say no it's not all you want, but I personally have problems dealing with people intentionally being stupid (90% of the internet).
  • valas625valas625 Member Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2012
    True but the Realms are a big place with many different explorers,so I can see someone from Kara-Tur a monk perhaps traveling to the Sword coast. Just like in Medieval England there were many nationalities, you had the Moores and some Asian traders....so it's perfectly reasonable.

    Anyone who's read the realms books, is Danica not a monk? She's in Forgotten Realms, along WITH a priest (Cadderly). So the argument of monks/religion is LITERALLY shot in it's face right there. :-D
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