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Discussion about guilds mechanics
qumi0
Member Posts: 154 Arc User
We all know that in Neverwinter, like in most mmo, there will be guilds. But how do they work? How should they work?
Guilds, imho, have several main reasons to exits:
- social aspect, bringing ppl together, etc.
- economic aspect, collecting items for all, collecting ingredients for crafting recipes, having discounts or for free items crafted by guild members, etc.
- strenght aspect, having enough member for raids, dungeons and ppl with different hero roles, helping weak players to level up and grind, etc.
- admiration aspect, being a part of something that others envy, having a headquarters, badges, etc.
Now, the question is how should Neverwinter approach these aspects? For me, simply having a possibility to create a guild with some logo i not enough. I want the game mechanics to encourage me to join a guild, a want it to become more powerful not only cuz of items and levels but also cuz of its impact on the world. I want the guild to have levels, to become more powerful with achieving certain goals.
In WoW: Cataclysm, Blizzard introduced guild leveling - I think this is a nice addition and it should be in Neverwinter, but ofc not a copy.
I would like all 4 aspects of guild affect the guild level, maybe even some separate development trees?
Guilds, imho, have several main reasons to exits:
- social aspect, bringing ppl together, etc.
- economic aspect, collecting items for all, collecting ingredients for crafting recipes, having discounts or for free items crafted by guild members, etc.
- strenght aspect, having enough member for raids, dungeons and ppl with different hero roles, helping weak players to level up and grind, etc.
- admiration aspect, being a part of something that others envy, having a headquarters, badges, etc.
Now, the question is how should Neverwinter approach these aspects? For me, simply having a possibility to create a guild with some logo i not enough. I want the game mechanics to encourage me to join a guild, a want it to become more powerful not only cuz of items and levels but also cuz of its impact on the world. I want the guild to have levels, to become more powerful with achieving certain goals.
In WoW: Cataclysm, Blizzard introduced guild leveling - I think this is a nice addition and it should be in Neverwinter, but ofc not a copy.
I would like all 4 aspects of guild affect the guild level, maybe even some separate development trees?
Post edited by qumi0 on
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1) Regarding this, you should also realize that many people solo, and their preference to solo-ity should also be considered.
2) New players would feel bad and isolated(perhaps discriminated) if old players with guilds are more powerful at lower levels.
So to integrate two kind of crowds(old and new), it would be nice that any advantages for big guilds are only at higher tier(say lvl 40 or 50 onwards). Though the things that don't give combat advantage(like RP etc.) should be there from low levels itself.
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Apart from this I want guilds to have alignments if possible.
I'm all for making friends and joining parties with other people but guilds bear absolutely no interest to me and the mechanics in many games outright <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> me off. In many games guilds actually cross the line of being there for enjoyment and become an outright job so considering how much I work in my real day to day life I'm not going to work in my pass time.
My personallity itself is a small group person. My idea of fun is to have a group of ten close friends do something by themselves. I avoid going to places with large amounts of people religiously because it irritates me to the core.
It's not that I am a recluse, I just simply prefer small groups of people. I think the only game I actually liked the guild system in was DDO because it was fairly well balanced to reward small guilds.
Most games dictate the size of the guild determines the power and tend to give rewards too good to be ignored by players who don't enjoy large groups of players.
I'm sure despite my opinion that it saves a lot of players like me a lot of grief to avoid the system altogether they'll add guilds...
So while your plea is to make them a big part of the game...
My plea is to make them the smallest part of the game so that it can be ignored by those who don't want to deal with them and/or decently accessible by small guilds.
I've been burned too many times since and during my Ultima Online days that it has just become a way of gaming for me to want to experience the lore and story of an MMORPG on my own time and terms while enjoying the myriad of other social aspects such games offer.
I have a feeling there will be many "groups" of players that will in fact also be real life PnP groupies.
On such a note, I hope to see the silly restrictions upon Guild creation that most MMOs require (having a full party) abolished in NWO. It is an annoyance that is always overcome, so why even have such to begin with? I know, I for one, will be creating my own Guild (more likely a "following of the old ways of Mystryl"). In some MMOs, I've even went so far as to creating an extra 6+ accounts just to multi-box and create my own guild, having found a lack of willing players to assist.
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As to the function for guilds I hope it stays strictly in a social aspect. I dislike WoW's guild levels and absolutely loathe DDO's guild level and the entire guild renown concept absolutely horrendous. I do hope that they allow multiple guilds though options like ANet does with GW2 and I think FF XIV had a similar system of multiple Linkshells option.
I would also like to see actual NPC guilds to join like the Thieves Guild or Tempus' Order of the Steel Fang or Broken Blades which open up RP avenues.
dont give advantages like buffs to guilds(like DDO, that has terribly broken the balance of game. elite players with lvl 70 guilds get 30 resists and then say low lvl traps are useless while new players with no guild buffs facing a lot of trouble as max they ca afford is 10 res at their lvl.).
However do give things like guild uniforms, guild rooms for strategy and war, tools to organise the guild and find guildies etc.
EDIT: AS I said previously, combat advantages, buffs are bad but fun and RP stuff etc. should be there; with vanity items.
The question is: what should these advantages be?
I would like to divide these advantages into two possible categories:
- Battle
- Non-battle
As for battle I would not like huge buffs to stats, at least not for a player as a solo character. I would like something akin to an aura. In short, the more guild members are nearby/in your party - the better buff you get. Not huge buffs, but something like +1% to damage for a guild member in your party, or 2% xp for each guild member in your party.
As for non-battle, these could be of course guild banks, guild headquarters, etc. But also some kind of mentorship in craft. For example: if in your guild is a character who has more skill in crafting then you do - you get a better chance to craft an item.
This should be the real reason anyone would want to join a guild.
Yes. From the social benefits of an organized guild, often results in generosity. Pooling resources, and well as shared game information and techniques educates the members of the guild. Better understanding of the game often results in more enjoyment playing your toons, running quests, among other niceties.
Knowing you can rely on there being a group of people you enjoy running with is an awesome feeling to some. Those with busy work schedules can rely on having a blast on a certain free day or evening because they've reserved, or signed up for a quest or raid in advance. It can fit the busy lifestyle of an adult gamer with little time to waste because of work, school etc.
No, this would be bad. This is not helpful to guilds in a D&D based game. It results in greed, exploitation, and results in guildies getting booted out of guild for no real life reason simply because they didnt understand why the guild leader felt the need to meet some imaginary quota for reward. This goes against the camaraderie thats been established by millions of pnp players over the years, not to mention creators Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson. If you want guild shinnies there's a game called Guild Wars, that's your game.
I'd much rather see zero rewards for forming or running in a guild. A guild isnt for everyone. Many have been in guilds and couldn't stand the drama, the work involved from overzealous, inconsiderate, or downright greedy guild leaders. A guild can stand for something, or have no niche at all.
When there's no shinnies it keeps many of the greedy inconsiderates from ever forming a guild, because they can't see the reward for their toons.
This is actually not necessary in a guild that communicates and keeps on top of things for their fellow guildies. A guild home, other fluffies to personalities the guild is great.
Giving guilds levels gets kind of dangerous, because it can isolate solo players. On the other hand we've had many solists that joined our guild over the years and loved it. Heck some bought a headset, started talking, getting involved etc, after realizing the group aspect could be great fun if done right.
So back to the guild rewards. I'd be down for small rewards. Buffs that made it quicker to get into the action, small bonuses to to hit/damage/ac/spell resistance/spell power etc, which can be explained easily as a guild is in essence a "well trained army".
However if they do go this route, thats all it should ever be, small buffs that give a slight edge. And it should all be easily attainable by small/large/casual/powergaming guilds alike, without much farming at all. No guild decay for innactives or for any reason. This would give incentives to everyone. Incentive to form for not only guildies but for those who'd like to try guild play who may not have ever tried it before. With no need for the guild leader/officers to feel the Need for Greed, everyone can just focus on one thing, playing the game.
I'd be perfectly happy with no combat based advantages, but I dont think that's going to happen. Games like this are all about the shinies. Just make guild bonus shinies small, not game breaking, and make em easy for all types to get. Also by making guild shinies too big, your tempting types that just join a guild for the buffs and could truly care less about any other guild social interaction. That's good for nobody.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
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One thing that always bugged me about guilds in many mmo's I've played is the guild bank. It's a good idea, but too often it becomes a place where people put things that just rot. I had one guild where they would use and replenish the guild bank every week, and it was brilliant. That takes a good solid level of management from the guild admins.
I'd like to see guilds that actually fulfill a guild function- RP thieves guilds, cleric orders, wizard cabals, etc. Imagine the RP possibilities!
We found a way to do something like this in DDO. Forming guild alliances. However its BEAR (and no not a chik fil A bear like the ones on this site:)) to upkeep without any guild control feature to utilize for easy communication between guild leaders and members of alliance guilds.
Now Alliances would be great if the shinies are small. However if the shinies are ridiculous like in DDO, expect the same BS amongst the exploit happy powergaming guilds in DDO.
There should never be an insurmountable difference built into the game that divides the haves and have nots.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Now this is a really really GREAT idea, and to my recollection never attempted before in an official D&D computer based game.
Lets see... each guild gets to train in ONE specialty, that grants a small bonus to said specialty for all guildies. Guilds who choose to base their reputation on alignment could also benefit from this feature.
If its a small bonus, and easy enough to acquire for any size guild, I'm down for it. If its a farm-filled grindfest race where only the elitsts/uber powergamers win Im adamantly against it.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
It would work really well with guild alliances, or even just going out and spreading word of your guild- a group of adventurers needs a healer, so they go to the a friendly Order and acquire the services of a cleric. Makes for great out of guild RP options, and allows for crossing story arcs. Even the "guild within a guild" could work, having an overarching story or purpose, and then each group within the guild has their own micro-arcs. The trick is of course getting enough people to actually participate in such, and having a good bunch of people guiding the story as a whole.
Yep, I'm in complete agreement on this. A bear for developers to create a system like this, but I can see this set of features as a real talking piece whenever Neverwinter is held up to any other game for comparison.
The real key to all these ideas is of course a small bonus that's easily attainable.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
To me those are two different things. Guilds to one extent or another ARE a profession of sorts. There are political or business reasons for them to exist. If they are too small I don't consider them to be a guild. It is kind of the difference from a small mom and pop store and a multi national company.
Then again, when I think of guild the first thing I think of is merchant guild or thieves guilds. So meh.
lol! I was thinking the same thing when I read your last thread
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Typically the larger the guild the more powerful it becomes both in reality and in fictional realms. It makes sense because they of course have larger pools of resources and manpower.
As Ras Al Ghul states, a man can be silenced or imprisoned but a symbol is immortal.
However this doesn't translate well into video games. All players have to be considered because the games exist for our enjoyment so it CAN NOT be made 'be in a large guild or else.'
It's as simple as that, just because things are typically so in the real realm doesn't mean it must be forced on people who are trying to enjoy their time away from reality. Just because Neverwinter will be a Massive Multiplayer Game doesn't mean it should be a Massively Multiplayer Game.
Those two letters make a huge difference in the meaning of the phrase. The number of players will be massive I hope but just because there's a lot of players doesn't mean people should be forced to interact with a lot of them. Originally MMO's were just a lot of people on the same servers which is great. I've met a lot of friends like that but in recent years I've seen a switch from MMO's allowing players to decide when to interact to forcing when they interact and it's truly sickening.
And honestly there's only one reason for it and it has NOTHING to do with player enjoyment.
Number one reason to remain playing an MMO: friends. -edited a typo
Games could easily provide guild support without ruining solo/small group gameplay but most have chosen to avoid that because the force on guild gameplay reduces the chance you'll get bored of the game and stop playing. Sorry to any with naive delusions that developers handed out giant cookies for playing in groups because the developers were trying to make a more enjoyable game.
With that being said there ARE plenty of small groups who are still very influential.
The most known was called Valkyrie but there have been others such as the Underground Railroad as well as the numerous resistance fighters that harbored and transported fugitive Jews during WWII.
During the War of the Spider Queen, although I have not finished reading the series, it appears the main villains are a small group of men from the lost city of Chaulssin. Maybe eight or so people pulling strings like puppetmasters to get what they want...
Generally larger is better but there's no rule on that. In fact I'm sure the world is littered with small groups of people pulling strings to make the world turn. If they're not caught or doing something they couldn't be criticized for I doubt you'd ever hear of them ;-)
So if you've bore with that overly long post filled with several factors on topics of varying relation to the matter at hand the bottom line presented is...
-Generally bigger is better
-MMO's should provide opportunity for large groups, not force them
-Any attempt to force them is for greed, not for the players
-There are exceptions to large guilds being the only influential guilds
We know exactly where that comfortable range is.
We will get large enough where we can run any content we choose at pretty much any time of the day or night, then stop.
The quality of the guildies (and by quality I mean their personality, the way they "carry themselves" and work well with others) we recruit mean far more to me than the quantity.
TYRS PALADIUM - A Premier Neverwinter Online Guild
No Drama. Camaraderie. TEAM Focus. That's the TYRS way. If that's your style, come join us!
Research our Guild here: Read our official Recruitment thread | Sign up here: Tyrs Guild Website! | NEVERWINTER GUILD LEADERS: Join the Fellowship!
Sadly I don't have anything left to add to discussion
Also I have an idea for merchants developing their business structure roughly based on the Ticket to Ride game mechanics but that is a whole different topic.
The server was split into three types of zones - Faction Territory, Neutral Territory, and Battle Grounds. Factions would have objectives to take over Territory. Once a faction achieved an objective in a territory that faction would get NPC guards to guard the territory and make it safe for them. PVP was allowed everywhere but you could feel safe in your faction controlled because of NPS guards unless there was a major raid. At which point you either stood and defend the territory (usually high level guys) or you left town (Unfactioned people or newbees).
The most cool thing about it was the game dynamics changed day to day through politics. The Faction Leaders/Quasi DMs where the only ones that could broadcast world wide and they just communicated story line. Guild alliances shifted through out time. Guild were created and destroyed/retired. The server was constantly evolving into new and exciting things. By the way it was not all about hack and slash PVP. It was all about Role Playing PVP and PVE.
I progressed from Player to Faction DM of the Mystics. It was the best gaming experiance i have every had. Guess I have beeen trying to find that ever since.
I know of an RP guild in WoW that uses that. I used to be a member before I changed factions. They were called the Dark Sun Cabal on Lightninghoof Server. It was and probably still is a good guild for Roleplaying.
But this is probably going off topic by saying so.