Please remove Manycoins Bank Heist from the Skirm Queue.

adventureone · January 2023

No one likes it. No one these days can complete it. It's a waste of time, and everyone just aborts it when it starts. So you might as well just remove it.

plasticbat · January 2023

adventureone#5245 said:
No one likes it. No one these days can complete it. It's a waste of time, and everyone just aborts it when it starts. So you might as well just remove it.

Hmm! Whenever I got that one, somehow, the random party I happened to be with can complete it. Sure, sometime, people left before it started but the replacements did it.

greywynd · January 2023

Never had a problem with it in random.

mintmark · February 2023

It's a good place to practice AOE combat...
And the reward can be good!

stryker80 · February 2023

Hmm. I see both sides here.

Maybe just tone down the mobs' damage and HP slightly (5 - 10%?)

Also, people need to learn what to do with the balls. Perhaps the giant text that pops up telling you what to do with them needs to be bigger ;-)

plasticbat · February 2023

Need to know how to deal with the ball. In addition, know to just re-spawn and come back if killed. Don't wait for others to bring you back to life. That can get them killed and your character has a skull head (weaker).

pitshade · February 2023

I have had the ball disappear after I dodged so it might not always be a simple lack of knowledge.

IMO random skirmish queue has more trap and stinker content than otherwise. POM, Throne, Heist, Gambit and Folly* versus MotH, Dread Legion and Tuern. I would love to see the trash removed and replaced with the missing old skirmishes.

*Folly with the goblins is misery outside of a premade, otherwise ok.

rockster · February 2023

I think the issue is not that it's doable or not doable, the issue is the same as for the Crown of Klingon, where when you go into random which you are forced to do if you want to earn your daily AD, people hate it and keep leaving it and it's a giant headache. It wastes loads of time. It's something which many people just find un-enjoyable and it fails too often with pug groups and the issue is not if it's doable or not in a perfect settings, the issue is where it actually is, and that's in the random pug queue where in those normal circumstances with casual players who don't know the way to do it and will not go outside the game to find out like YT videos etc, it usually fails. People know this from experience and therefore won't bother with it and leave. Put it somewhere else and take it out of randoms.

plasticbat · February 2023

rockster#6227 said:
I think the issue is not that it's doable or not doable, the issue is the same as for the Crown of Klingon, where when you go into random which you are forced to do if you want to earn your daily AD, people hate it and keep leaving it and it's a giant headache. It wastes loads of time. It's something which many people just find un-enjoyable and it fails too often with pug groups and the issue is not if it's doable or not in a perfect settings, the issue is where it actually is, and that's in the random pug queue where in those normal circumstances with casual players who don't know the way to do it and will not go outside the game to find out like YT videos etc, it usually fails. People know this from experience and therefore won't bother with it and leave. Put it somewhere else and take it out of randoms.

Basically, just get rid of RQ. The purpose of RQ is to 'force' players to help those who want to do those dungeons. For me, RQ was already a bad idea right before the introduction. Removing the 'bad' one defeats the purpose of RQ. So, might as well get rid of RQ (as I have advocated since before its introduction). The purpose is to 'force' you. Before RQ, you had your choice to earn the daily rAD.

mintmark · February 2023

You say you had your choice, but in practice you had to do the one that everyone else considered the fastest or easiest, because that's the only queue that would pop.

I don't mind the queue as it is, there is variety... although, the current approach to Prophecy of Madness is not exactly gripping entertainment

plasticbat · February 2023

mintmark said:
You say you had your choice, but in practice you had to do the one that everyone else considered the fastest or easiest, because that's the only queue that would pop.

If you refer to what I said in my post, I was talking about the choice before RQ was introduced.
The choice WAS you could pick whatever you wanted and capable to earn the rAD.
At that time, you could even solo, a party of 2, a party of 3, etc.
Most people who tried to earn rAD from dungeon did not care about 'pop'. They selected people and just went in.
Yes, the choice was limited by your ability.
It was more fun back then. My guild had those 5 cleric run, 5 naked run, etc because you always got something worth the run.
After RQ, there was no more fun run. Why? When a player login and was asked for running a dungeon, one would say "let me do the RQ first". By the time they finished, they ran out of their daily game time.
Before RQ, when a player login and was asked for running a dungeon, one would say "Let's go" because he/she would get his/her AD + fun.

hadestemplar · February 2023

Main reason why pugs fail this skirmish is that they don't bother to learn it's mechanics..

It's not hard skirmish, and all is just AoE dps benchmarking. And the other main reason is that most pugs think, that ohh I have x IL so I don't need to dodge incoming hits.. So player stand still and eat all incoming hits, die and latter complain that skirmish is hard..

I done this skirmish on HC ( hardcore - no death) run alone. So it's silly to hear complains that 5 players can't clear it..

Now obviously lot of pugs q for random q's not for clearning them, what they mostly expect is to get carried through. Kind of doing nothing and gain AD as reward... Thats why players don't bother to learn mechanics..

adventureone · February 2023

There's several assumptions being made in the design of several of the current Skrims:

1) That the team members can communicate and coordinate with each other effectively. This is NOT true when I feel that many of the people I am in a PUG group with cannot speak my language. Case in point: "DON'T KILL THE THOON HULKS!", and people continue to kill the Thoon Hulks.

2) That content designed for a standard group (tank, healer, DPS) is doable with a group of all the same class. I'm a DPS class but squishy as hell. If I pull aggro, I'm dead.

I personally feel that Mad Wizard's Lair is the only example currently of what a true "Skirmish" should be. Waves of mobs, boss at the end, all in one place. Manycoins is the absolute worst example of this kind of format.

plasticbat · February 2023

When people do skirmish RQ for daily rAD, they will repeat all these skirmish again and again. Eventually, they will learn the machinic. There is no need for communication once they 'eventually' got it (after they did many of them).

adventureone · February 2023

plasticbat said:
There is no need for communication once they 'eventually' got it (after they did many of them).

You know. You'd think that but every time I do Throne Of The Dwarven Gods or whatever it's called, someone ALWAYS kills the Thoon Hulks.

plasticbat · February 2023

adventureone#5245 said:

plasticbat said:
There is no need for communication once they 'eventually' got it (after they did many of them).
You know. You'd think that but every time I do Throne Of The Dwarven Gods or whatever it's called, someone ALWAYS kills the Thoon Hulks.

Sure. That is why I am almost always the first one to go the Hulk and got its aggro to show them what the Hulk is for. Most would get it before the phase is done.

rockster · February 2023

plasticbat said:

rockster#6227 said:
I think the issue is not that it's doable or not doable, the issue is the same as for the Crown of Klingon, where when you go into random which you are forced to do if you want to earn your daily AD, people hate it and keep leaving it and it's a giant headache. It wastes loads of time. It's something which many people just find un-enjoyable and it fails too often with pug groups and the issue is not if it's doable or not in a perfect settings, the issue is where it actually is, and that's in the random pug queue where in those normal circumstances with casual players who don't know the way to do it and will not go outside the game to find out like YT videos etc, it usually fails. People know this from experience and therefore won't bother with it and leave. Put it somewhere else and take it out of randoms.
Basically, just get rid of RQ. The purpose of RQ is to 'force' players to help those who want to do those dungeons. For me, RQ was already a bad idea right before the introduction. Removing the 'bad' one defeats the purpose of RQ. So, might as well get rid of RQ (as I have advocated since before its introduction). The purpose is to 'force' you. Before RQ, you had your choice to earn the daily rAD.

I never liked random queues when they were introduced, I like to be prepared and I use different things for different situations. I like to sit there before I enter something and quietly adjust my set-up to optimize things for me and the team, choose this or that artifact, maybe different pots make more sense, companions I have so many of that often one may be better for a particular run than others. I like to be prepared and used to enjoy the process of setting-up for whatever I was running. But with randoms you're just thrown into something unknown and don't have the ability to prepare for different scenarios, you also don't have time when you get in there after having discovered what it is to re-adjust your set-up because they want to get it over with fast and you'll hold everyone up and pi$$ them off, so you just end-up having some generic set-up for everything which is a shame. The game just gets more and more dumbed-down over the years because of stuff like this.

But the main reason I don't like randoms is because as a player I should be the one who chooses what content I do. It's my game, my build, my character and my recreation time, I should not be forced to play content I maybe do not prefer. I should be able to tailor my experience as I wish, not be forced by the game to do whatever the game tells me to.

But at the end of the day randoms do exist, and the issue here really is that some of them are easier and more enjoyable, while others are just unpleasant enough to players that they would rather be banned from joining queues for 30 minutes than play the content. I think the answer to this is to remove the problematic ones from the random queues seeing we have to have this system, and at least there is some consistency in the enjoyable experience for the majority of players who need to do randoms to earn enough currency to play the game effectively, and annoyance and disappointment is kept to a minimum. Maybe make a higher random tier queue which is harder or more complicated with better rewards and more rough AD. That way if people don't want to exert themselves too much they can still earn their daily AD and do randoms and not miss out. I don't do trial queue anymore personally because I hate two of the trials and won't do them so I take a penalty.

plasticbat · February 2023

rockster#6227 said:

plasticbat said:

rockster#6227 said:
I think the issue is not that it's doable or not doable, the issue is the same as for the Crown of Klingon, where when you go into random which you are forced to do if you want to earn your daily AD, people hate it and keep leaving it and it's a giant headache. It wastes loads of time. It's something which many people just find un-enjoyable and it fails too often with pug groups and the issue is not if it's doable or not in a perfect settings, the issue is where it actually is, and that's in the random pug queue where in those normal circumstances with casual players who don't know the way to do it and will not go outside the game to find out like YT videos etc, it usually fails. People know this from experience and therefore won't bother with it and leave. Put it somewhere else and take it out of randoms.
Basically, just get rid of RQ. The purpose of RQ is to 'force' players to help those who want to do those dungeons. For me, RQ was already a bad idea right before the introduction. Removing the 'bad' one defeats the purpose of RQ. So, might as well get rid of RQ (as I have advocated since before its introduction). The purpose is to 'force' you. Before RQ, you had your choice to earn the daily rAD.
I never liked random queues when they were introduced, I like to be prepared and I use different things for different situations. I like to sit there before I enter something and quietly adjust my set-up to optimize things for me and the team, choose this or that artifact, maybe different pots make more sense, companions I have so many of that often one may be better for a particular run than others. I like to be prepared and used to enjoy the process of setting-up for whatever I was running. But with randoms you're just thrown into something unknown and don't have the ability to prepare for different scenarios, you also don't have time when you get in there after having discovered what it is to re-adjust your set-up because they want to get it over with fast and you'll hold everyone up and pi$$ them off, so you just end-up having some generic set-up for everything which is a shame. The game just gets more and more dumbed-down over the years because of stuff like this.

But the main reason I don't like randoms is because as a player I should be the one who chooses what content I do. It's my game, my build, my character and my recreation time, I should not be forced to play content I maybe do not prefer. I should be able to tailor my experience as I wish, not be forced by the game to do whatever the game tells me to.

But at the end of the day randoms do exist, and the issue here really is that some of them are easier and more enjoyable, while others are just unpleasant enough to players that they would rather be banned from joining queues for 30 minutes than play the content. I think the answer to this is to remove the problematic ones from the random queues seeing we have to have this system, and at least there is some consistency in the enjoyable experience for the majority of players who need to do randoms to earn enough currency to play the game effectively, and annoyance and disappointment is kept to a minimum. Maybe make a higher random tier queue which is harder or more complicated with better rewards and more rough AD. That way if people don't want to exert themselves too much they can still earn their daily AD and do randoms and not miss out. I don't do trial queue anymore personally because I hate two of the trials and won't do them so I take a penalty.

Thank you. I have refused to do RQ since the introduction of RQ until recently. That was because of the newer battle pass which I would not able to complete on time without doing at least some Random skirmish. So, I adjusted my defiance to do random skirmish and eased my stand. 😢

greywynd · February 2023

plasticbat said:
Thank you. I have refused to do RQ since the introduction of RQ until recently. That was because of the newer battle pass which I would not able to complete on time without doing at least some Random skirmish. So, I adjusted my defiance to do random skirmish and eased my stand. 😢

They make a cream for that.

muschellka · February 2023

Until recently, you could predict whether it’s worth to try to do a random dungeon. The determinant was item level and having a band of air. But "some" felt excluded...
Now everyone has item level raised to the maximum, and you can even say boldly that the higher the worse, and no one is excluded. Meanwhile, you enter a random with 80k characters, dps are unable to kill the initial mobs and the tank is first in damage.
I’m playing premade, with second person. If he goes tank and I go healer, there is no one to fight.
If he goes dps and I go healer, the tank is unable to hold aggro of mobs, not to mention the boss.
If I go dps and he goes tank, there is no one who can heal....
We are not able to play three roles for the hell of it, and with randoms we go half a day, because we have to go out when cr or spellplague falls out, because with idiots it is impossible to do.
Maybe someone will finally explain to those at the top that equal does not mean fair and communism has never worked anywhere.

greywynd · February 2023

What was the reason for the nerfing of the BoA? Oh, that's right, the haves were excluding the have-nots.

rockster · February 2023

It's funny that Neverwinter is set in a time of kings and queens and lords and ladies and wizards and medieval stuff where you had commoners (listed and walking all around Protectors Enclave) and then the 'haves' and better-off people, the nobility, it was a time where class distinction really was a thing, yet some people who play it and apparently those who run it, want it to resemble communism where everybody is the same as everybody else.

muschellka · February 2023

greywynd said:
What was the reason for the nerfing of the BoA? Oh, that's right, the haves were excluding the have-nots.

All in all, the reason for exclusion was being a noob. After all, you did not buy BOA for any money.
You simply had to know how to play. Now you don't have to, because you can be carried by others
But ok, let it be that a rich man is allowed everything.
Reason as good as any other.

greywynd · February 2023

Or, perhaps, it would have been better if the haves helped the have-nots to acquire said ring and experience.

rockster · February 2023

I never bothered trying to get that ring it was overrated, and they always nerf everything anyway. Same reason I won't get the succubus/incubus because after all the effort to get it, it will eventually be a waste of time.

jana · February 2023

I agree with the many coin heist ought to be dumped. It was never a great favorite but winnable if everyone sticks it out, but pretty much people leave right away and even if you can get out without a leaver penalty you still wasted that time for it to start. I have met some pretty nice people in the random Qs though. When was the last time you played it Plastic Bat,? it has only been the last few months no one usually will.

plasticbat · February 2023

jana#2651 said:
I agree with the many coin heist ought to be dumped. It was never a great favorite but winnable if everyone sticks it out, but pretty much people leave right away and even if you can get out without a leaver penalty you still wasted that time for it to start. I have met some pretty nice people in the random Qs though. When was the last time you played it Plastic Bat,? it has only been the last few months no one usually will.

The last time I played Many Coins was this morning. Nobody gave up in the beginning. All 5 went in. One died and never woke up for whatever reason. He was finally kicked and there was no replacement. He did 0 damage. The 4 of us (random people, not pre-made) finished it. Number of death among us was 2 including the death of the one we kicked. No, I did not die once. There was no healer although mine is a cleric who (i.e. me) does not do heal (not even self healing) and 2 members did not know how to "play ball". My cleric was 2nd in damage and hair away from the 1st. So, this is not exactly a high damage group. It actually was kind of fun.

adventureone · February 2023

It popped up for me today. I figure I'd try it so I can see if what others say about it is true. Sat for two minutes waiting for the last person to join at the door. I finally said "COME ON!" and got a response: "Laggin".

Sat for 1 minute more then abandoned the instance. Now I am on 30 minute cool down for being a quitter.

plasticbat · February 2023

I have just done another one minutes ago today as a Paladin. All 5 went in. Finished phase 1 easily. Phase 2 would be easy if the folks knew what the ball is for. They got killed by the ball. Sigh! I ended up pulling all 3 balls. Killing the boss was not hard but it took a while. When I checked the 'result', I found that some did quit and got replaced though.

hadestemplar · February 2023

All skirmishes stoped being hard years ago. I mean even if you pick gear from seal vendor you are already strong enough.

If players can't clear skirmish, then what you can expect from them in dungeons or trials?

Sure get rid this skirmish, then remove some other game content cuz someone incabaple to clear it cuz he/she don't even try learn mechanics.

Skirmishes are good way for pugs to learn how to play this game, and asking to remove will cause just more damage. Cuz then these inexperienced players get in dungeon and we get another complain fiesta. That it's too hard to clear dungeon with pugs.

And then what happens when inexperienced players get in trials?? Same case as with dungeons..

The learning curve got cut down by a lot. Game got simplified by a lot. The whole issues is that lot of pugs get used either to be carried through. Or simply due high raw stats where not needed to learn anything, and you could simply bulldoze through content.

SKirmishes should remain as it is, this Manycoin included. Cuz it's teach players about teamwork, and that game is not just keyboard hammering without thinking.

melotai · February 2023

Got it today, just did an automatic quit simply because I presumed I did not have the time to deal with the BS and just did a few underdark heroics to earn the battle pass currency instead. Only needed one but the toon I was using needed some more of the currency for another companion thingy.

while it may be an easy completion, from my own experience it usually never gets started and is just quicker for me to take the penalty and do something else in game or to just stop playing for a bit.

While it may have changed since then my reaction to getting it has not and based on the posts here I get the feeling that I should just continue with my apathy for it of why even bother to try.

Please remove Manycoins Bank Heist from the Skirm Queue.

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