They are not deleting the Dragons, they are taking away the dragons that MOST ppl don't kill anymore. Cuz other than the adventure quests or campaing the only reason to kill those 3-5 dragons was to get the appareance items from the Dragon Cult, that no one is wearing anymore. No matter the rage, this is going to happen so adapt or leave. If there are no extra campaings like in sharandar that goes from Malabog to the new Sharandar Boss, this new zones might come back as a .5 MOD to give players something to do, feel nostalgic and wait till new full mod. We might even see simple dungeons going to epic dungeons. Or even older content that some of us never had the chance to play. Vaulted it is NOT deleted, even if it gives that feeling. They put ton of time, effort and money on them just to say "meh, burn them". Maybe will have an adventure version of storyteller that doesn't make you rush through content. I would love if they could tell us what plans or rough plans they have for the future tho, that would give us some ease and we would know how to give more productive feedback.
TL;DR: adapt or leave.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
Tell the people who are still mad at original CN that "Vaulted doesn't mean deleted".
These devs have taken a lot away. Also remember this Quote:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
This is why I comment on pvp threads for them to be heard, because then there's times like this where pve content is heavily removed. We stand together to keep what we have, or everything is gone. If you don't want to stand with us, don't expect 6 months from now when they remove what you love in this game to have everyone backing you.
6
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
...was to get the appareance items from the Dragon Cult, that no one is wearing anymore.
I still wear mine.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
They are not deleting the Dragons, they are taking away the dragons that MOST ppl don't kill anymore. Cuz other than the adventure quests or campaing the only reason to kill those 3-5 dragons was to get the appareance items from the Dragon Cult, that no one is wearing anymore. No matter the rage, this is going to happen so adapt or leave. If there are no extra campaings like in sharandar that goes from Malabog to the new Sharandar Boss, this new zones might come back as a .5 MOD to give players something to do, feel nostalgic and wait till new full mod. We might even see simple dungeons going to epic dungeons. Or even older content that some of us never had the chance to play. Vaulted it is NOT deleted, even if it gives that feeling. They put ton of time, effort and money on them just to say "meh, burn them". Maybe will have an adventure version of storyteller that doesn't make you rush through content. I would love if they could tell us what plans or rough plans they have for the future tho, that would give us some ease and we would know how to give more productive feedback.
TL;DR: adapt or leave.
Not sure what game are you playing but I can tell you that those dragons are killed. people do those quest weekly as they give currencies needed for SH. I kill dragons weekly on 8 char and I never alone!!! there are always players there.
Maybe you are not one who cares about the guilds and just out there for yourself but for those of us who are building a guild it is a big slap in the face. We are loosing a good portions of the currency for the guild coffer.
And also as for my personal experience -- meeting and killing the dragon in the graveyard was one of my most exciting experience in NW. It is after all Dungeons and Dragons and not spend ours training to kill Halaster on a small platform. It should be about adventure and not just combat in a small arena.
Also they put in the vault many dungeons and skirmishes with promise they will be back ... ROFL -- I haven't seen any back in years. So yes it is as good as deleted.
Oh, I play warlock, they alredy removed plenty of times what i loved about warlock. First they came for the soulpuppet, and i spoke cuz i was a puppetier. Then they came for the templock, and i spoke cuz i was a templock. Then they came for the buffs and debuffs, and i spoke cuz i was a buffer and debuffer. Then they came for the Life Bind, and i spoke cuz i based my whole build on Life Bind. Then they came for our heals, and i spoke cuz i am a healer.
I spoke alone, i joined other ppl, and the two options we always had were adapt or leave. Heck, you know what they told us when we said "the sheilds are bad"? They told us "then use the heals over time". That's the kind of ppl you are asking to keep old content. I whined, i cried and ranted, and nothing of that will ever bring what i most LOVED about the warlock back. I feel bad for them losing the zones they loved to go kill time, but in the future, when there are no more content or the devs needs to put a "filler" for a new mod, we will see the zones back.
I needed to adapt to every new warlock and learned to LOVE it again, and every single time they just "reworked" it, taking what i LOVED away. So yeah, im used to see what i LOVE being REMOVED and not VAULTED for FUTURE USE.
Does it suck to have content removed? Yes. Does it suck when it's that much content? Yes. Do our complains have a weight here? No. Do our ACTIONS have any weight here? Yes.
And about the original CN, we can only hope. They "reworked" Sharandar, they might bring them back. But then again, we are talking about ppl that instead of listening to TWO threads of warlocks feedback (cuz the first one was so long they needed to create a new one) they just told us "then use the other feat". So if that doesn't tell you that they won't go back on their execution, i don't what else to tell you. The only times they went back on a change (even if a little) it's when the players stop playing.
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
They are not deleting the Dragons, they are taking away the dragons that MOST ppl don't kill anymore. Cuz other than the adventure quests or campaing the only reason to kill those 3-5 dragons was to get the appareance items from the Dragon Cult, that no one is wearing anymore. No matter the rage, this is going to happen so adapt or leave. If there are no extra campaings like in sharandar that goes from Malabog to the new Sharandar Boss, this new zones might come back as a .5 MOD to give players something to do, feel nostalgic and wait till new full mod. We might even see simple dungeons going to epic dungeons. Or even older content that some of us never had the chance to play. Vaulted it is NOT deleted, even if it gives that feeling. They put ton of time, effort and money on them just to say "meh, burn them". Maybe will have an adventure version of storyteller that doesn't make you rush through content. I would love if they could tell us what plans or rough plans they have for the future tho, that would give us some ease and we would know how to give more productive feedback.
TL;DR: adapt or leave.
Not sure what game are you playing but I can tell you that those dragons are killed. people do those quest weekly as they give currencies needed for SH. I kill dragons weekly on 8 char and I never alone!!! there are always players there.
Maybe you are not one who cares about the guilds and just out there for yourself but for those of us who are building a guild it is a big slap in the face. We are loosing a good portions of the currency for the guild coffer.
And also as for my personal experience -- meeting and killing the dragon in the graveyard was one of my most exciting experience in NW. It is after all Dungeons and Dragons and not spend ours training to kill Halaster on a small platform. It should be about adventure and not just combat in a small arena.
Also they put in the vault many dungeons and skirmishes with promise they will be back ... ROFL -- I haven't seen any back in years. So yes it is as good as deleted.
I apologize there, i never grinded dragons for guild resources, and we maxed so long ago that the only pain if we want to destroy something to get another boon, it's the shards. Again, my bad (and no, no sarcasm there). They might change it so single dragons counts as BHE on well of dragons or increase the drops from the 5 dragons. And maybe it's bad luck, but the times i went there i literally never saw anyone.
About halaster and all those fights that requires you hours and hours of practice.. It's the fault of both players and devs. Most ppl don't care anymore about "let's explore!" now it's "rush it or get kicked" :S I remember MC had that "secret" door that took you to like a garden, but they removed it cuz ppl just loved to rush.
And the "deleted" content, we may have hope since they said they want to bring the game more to the "D&D core", so with some luck we might see some back (and with luck not as "storyteller").
The meta it's just a guideline. And guidelines are boring.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
Don't miss the point: They might reintroduce them later Just like Sharandar 2.0
This is so ridiculous.
Give them 5 years and it'll be the "new" Tales of Old HAMSTER.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
These are the zones we have removed from the leveling flow:
Blacklake District Tower District Blackdagger Ruins Helm's Hold Pirate's Skyhold Rothe Valley Mount Hotenow
Ok everyone, it's time to...
For where Mods 22-28 will take place!
From what I read above by developer @eminnerdev#8159 they stated, Pirate's Skyhold, were selected because we didn't feel the visual fidelity and content flow were up to standards and there was real potential to reimagine these spaces in the future. Module 22 - Pirate's Skyhold Module 23 - Rothe Valley Blacklake District and Tower District are in limbo, somewhere between revamp to total annihilation. Blackdagger Ruins and Helm's Hold these are part of the Elemental Evil campaign. I wouldn't expect these two are vaulted at all, from what I read.
BTW I removed the GIF from the quote, while it was humorous, it was also creeping me out. They might not use them as a module but reintroduce them as a seasonal event as they did with Mad Dragon's Lair.
Oh, I play warlock, they alredy removed plenty of times what i loved about warlock. First they came for the soulpuppet, and i spoke cuz i was a puppetier. Then they came for the templock, and i spoke cuz i was a templock. Then they came for the buffs and debuffs, and i spoke cuz i was a buffer and debuffer. Then they came for the Life Bind, and i spoke cuz i based my whole build on Life Bind. Then they came for our heals, and i spoke cuz i am a healer.
I spoke alone, i joined other ppl, and the two options we always had were adapt or leave. Heck, you know what they told us when we said "the sheilds are bad"? They told us "then use the heals over time". That's the kind of ppl you are asking to keep old content. I whined, i cried and ranted, and nothing of that will ever bring what i most LOVED about the warlock back. I feel bad for them losing the zones they loved to go kill time, but in the future, when there are no more content or the devs needs to put a "filler" for a new mod, we will see the zones back.
I needed to adapt to every new warlock and learned to LOVE it again, and every single time they just "reworked" it, taking what i LOVED away. So yeah, im used to see what i LOVE being REMOVED and not VAULTED for FUTURE USE.
Does it suck to have content removed? Yes. Does it suck when it's that much content? Yes. Do our complains have a weight here? No. Do our ACTIONS have any weight here? Yes.
And about the original CN, we can only hope. They "reworked" Sharandar, they might bring them back. But then again, we are talking about ppl that instead of listening to TWO threads of warlocks feedback (cuz the first one was so long they needed to create a new one) they just told us "then use the other feat". So if that doesn't tell you that they won't go back on their execution, i don't what else to tell you. The only times they went back on a change (even if a little) it's when the players stop playing.
I fully understand your feelings, while reading your comments I felt like crying, I lost a lot of things in my warlock, if without a doubt the changes in the healing removing all the originality when healing with him was what ended me the most.
The dragons got Vaulted. The more I think about it - it is actually a proper DnD accommodation for such a creature. Finally a proper shelter where they can amass a lot of goodies...
I'm not sure I get all the rage about removed content. The leveling experience was bad and only a fraction of the zones had to be completed to get to 80. I think the decision to rework them and bring them back in a more meaningful manner is decent.
BUT they should have done it immediately or with a more concrete timeline so that players have less to complain about. Plus the story arc has to make sense. Flashbacks to when they removed the original Castle Never and the main fight against Valindra disappeared.
Hello. Beta player here. I've got some general and specific comments.
"Our MMORPG has too much quality content" said no MMO dev team. Ever. Until this one.
Several years ago you killed a whole bunch of the dungeons. That went over like a lead balloon. Remember Call to Arms? Those were fun. Gone. Now you're carving out the heart of the game. I won't repeat what was said above, but the points are well-taken and valid. Please take a moment to re-read them.
I've always rolled with the game's changes, though I took a break when my beloved pally got nerfed into the ground and I still don't enjoy playing my cleric like I did when he was a DC and had the old set of powers. He's mostly a bank alt these days. While I may roll with these as well, they're a mistake. They gut the storyline, cut out some very enjoyable content, and seriously complicate some of the campaigns you're planning to keep.
"But our analytics show that players don't use these zones." Well, duh. Look, I have a lot of alts and I've run through the base campaign content many times. And I'm here to tell you that even if you don't run a lot of extra stuff, it's basically impossible to make it through the base campaign without out-leveling the content. And the rewards in those zones are so attuned to the levels they're designed for that there's no reason to go back to them once you're over-leveled unless a campaign like Tyranny of Dragons, Acquisitions Inc., or Maze Engine sends you there. But the answer isn't to delete the zones. Give us a reason to go to them. Scale them! Hell, you put in a LOT of effort and caused a lot of player angst tuning the combat system so that it would scale better. USE IT! Scale me down when I'm in Blacklake or Tower District! Then add some class-based or role-based quests, equipment, etc. in those zones so there's some reason to do them.
Note that I don't think the Mod 21 changes are ALL bad. While I think it's a bad idea in general to get rid of the dragons from the Tyranny of Dragons campaign, I will say that that campaign took FOREVER to complete, and streamlining it was a grand idea. I think you just swung the pendulum a bit too far, such that: 1. The TOD campaign no longer has the grand feel to it that it once did. Valindra and the Cult of the Dragon were a force to be reckoned with early on and they seemed to be everywhere. Now? Meh. 2. One of the best sources of TOD stronghold currency was the weekly Defeating Dragons quest that yielded a whopping 10 pages or Arcane Lore (or 20 if it was a 2x TOD/Legacy campaign week). Losing that really hurts for those of us fighting to level our strongholds. The daily common cause was another decent source of currency now lost. 3. The Dragon Bone weapons were pretty cool, and honestly for the last 6+ years I've been looking forward to farming a set for my Druid. Er, Bard, I guess. I don't suppose I'll be playing a Dragon Bone Lute anytime soon.
So I think the overarching idea of streamlining TOD was a good one, you just went a little crazy with it.
I've never seen Cryptic change course due to player input once you've made a controversial decision like this. At least not that I can remember. But boy, I think you really missed the mark on this one and I for one would rather see you push back mod 21 by months if necessary than gut the game this way.
Oh and one other thing... where are we supposed to get Demonic keys from if there's no Underdark campaign?? I've hunted around and haven't found a source for them on Preview.
Oh and one other thing... where are we supposed to get Demonic keys from if there's no Underdark campaign?? I've hunted around and haven't found a source for them on Preview.
No no, don't worry. Just like when they said "lesser demon keys are suppose to still be there, its a bug we'll fix it!" I'm sure they'll do the same for greater.
Oh and one other thing... where are we supposed to get Demonic keys from if there's no Underdark campaign?? I've hunted around and haven't found a source for them on Preview.
Underdark is gone as well? Is the map still there? Mantol Derith? Asking because that is the only place you can get some specific and very nice transmutes from the vendor.
Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
2
arazith07Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,719Arc User
Oh and one other thing... where are we supposed to get Demonic keys from if there's no Underdark campaign?? I've hunted around and haven't found a source for them on Preview.
Underdark is gone as well? Is the map still there? Mantol Derith? Asking because that is the only place you can get some specific and very nice transmutes from the vendor.
No idea about keys, but Mantol-Derith is still fully intact with vendors, although I do not see a way to farm for the Alliance Supplies.
Oh and one other thing... where are we supposed to get Demonic keys from if there's no Underdark campaign?? I've hunted around and haven't found a source for them on Preview.
Underdark is gone as well? Is the map still there? Mantol Derith? Asking because that is the only place you can get some specific and very nice transmutes from the vendor.
No idea about keys, but Mantol-Derith is still fully intact with vendors, although I do not see a way to farm for the Alliance Supplies.
ty. That vendor is a good one for transmutes, especially weapon ones. I would hate to see it go. As far as keys go, they will need to either make them creatable elsewhere or just make the chests open all the time without one I guess.
Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
Are the achievements and lore associated with these zones still going to be available in some fashion or are they just going to be completely removed? Mainly curious about the lore aspect.
I remember the last time they removed content and claimed it would be better, it didnt go well. Dread Vault is missing from that time.
Better for them. Not better for the game.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Oh and one other thing... where are we supposed to get Demonic keys from if there's no Underdark campaign?? I've hunted around and haven't found a source for them on Preview.
Underdark is gone as well? Is the map still there? Mantol Derith? Asking because that is the only place you can get some specific and very nice transmutes from the vendor.
No idea about keys, but Mantol-Derith is still fully intact with vendors, although I do not see a way to farm for the Alliance Supplies.
ty. That vendor is a good one for transmutes, especially weapon ones. I would hate to see it go. As far as keys go, they will need to either make them creatable elsewhere or just make the chests open all the time without one I guess.
You farm Alliance supplies from the "Ballad of Baphomet" weekly which was still there. But it's limited to at most 600 a week if you're lucky
0
dheffernanMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
edited June 2021
The Linkletter quest line appears to be gone. (Haven't gotten to the Chasm yet.) This was the only quest line in the entire game that wasn't "just a bunch of stuff that happened".
Zemmer's quests were pulled from Neverdeath. While they weren't essential to the narrative, they were at least funny. Edit: Oh, and you managed to break "A Lich's Lament". Of course, you already ruined the ride on that one by bringing the lich back for a throwaway side piece.
But then, as other respondents have noted, material that was essential to the narrative was excised with extreme prejudice.
From what I've seen so far, calling this a disaster is an insult to disasters. It's as if a dumpster fire and a train wreck had a baby and it was raised by Lindsey Lohan and Britney Spears.
@Venture-1@Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that far back. Yes, *that* Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. For me it was Tuesday.
10
someonediesMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,257Arc User
edited June 2021
mai good look rest in pace.. [Blacklake District] Belt of Captaincy Boots of Far Striding Corsair's Sash Maelstrom Cloak Orb of Confusion Hexbane Hood Stormshield
[Blackdagger Ruins] Collar of Command Girdle of the Damned Hellbound Boots Hood of the Succubi Orb of Fire Robes of Asmodeus Shield of Asmodeus Symbol of Asmodeus
[Helm's Hold] Archon Bracers Archon Helm Archon's Falchion Boots of the Fire Giant Brimstone Mace Hellfire Armor Searing Belt
[Mount Hotenow] Lizardfolk Armor Lizardfolk Belt Lizardfolk Bracers Lizardfolk Circlet Lizardfolk Greaves Lizardfolk Shield Scalefather's Dagger Scalefather's Symbol
[Pirate's Skyhold] Belt of Spider Control Blade of the Drider Circlet of Webs Drow Bracers Signet of the Predato Spider Armor Symbol of Lolth Talisman of the Spider
[Rothe Valley] Machete of Gruumsh Belt of the Many Arrows Bone-Shard Bindings Bracers of Scouting Mancleaver Marauder's Garb
Looks like they have the next few years of 'new' exciting gear designs right there in that list. Would they delete entire maps and storylines just to save a few bucks on designers to create new stuff? Well I'm half joking but tbh nothing would surprise me anymore. And we all know how Cryptic loves to recycle.
Apparently pointing-out the bleeding obvious is a 'personal attack'.
Too bad. Among others Helm's hold, Rothé Valley and Mount Hotenow are such good places with good lore.
And there are lot's of reference. Like the Nashers for example. Mentioned in the Protector's Jubilee speech or you have to go back to Blacklace District from Cloaked ascendancy if I remember correctly.
0
greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
There's a guy under the bridge in Neverdeath that leads up to Craftsman's Rest and Merchants Landing that tells you the story of how Karzov was defeated.
Yeah, we get a story about what other adventurers did...
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
1
arcanjo86Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,093Arc User
The removal of some zones will be covered in an upcoming blog but it will be a major topic for a lot of players so I wanted to take the chance to provide some direct information here. These are the zones we have removed from the leveling flow:
Blacklake District Tower District Blackdagger Ruins Helm's Hold Pirate's Skyhold Rothe Valley Mount Hotenow
We did not make this decision lightly and we know there are players out there that enjoyed each of these spaces, so here are some of the reasons behind this selection. Some of these zones were selected because they are later reused in the Elemental Evil content, which is now a more accessible Adventure. Some, like Pirate's Skyhold, were selected because we didn't feel the visual fidelity and content flow were up to standards and there was real potential to reimagine these spaces in the future. And others showed that many players would not complete them according to our analytics.
With the new Adventure system, it will be much easier for us to reintroduce content as we identify the opportunity or need. Compared to the new Sharandar, bringing these zones back would look more like a new Epic Adventure at level 20 that has refreshed rewards, a smoother questing experience, various fixes, and more polished visuals. We currently have no plans to evolve other existing adventure zones the way we did with Sharandar.
We understand these kinds of changes have a cost, but we believe we are moving the game in a positive direction for all of our players.
Thank you for playing!
black lake district is related to the tarkov crown steal quest line that connects later to river district crown storyline? does it have to do with a new storyline were a red thayan thief infiltrated neverwinter higher ranks?*cough* lord neverember*cough*
Rothé valley + 1 portion of whispering caverns are connected to drows and Lolth storyline why split the story line, drow lore got changed/updated recently in d&d does it have to do about this new update to lore?
mount hotenow + other part of the whispering caverns, fire giants lore + duergar lore also introduces ilithids to storyline why split again this continues as we explore underdark later in mantel-derith and demogorgon story line
black dagger ruins + pirate's skyhold connected story line for cragsmire crypt and pirate dungeon, these 2 combined with a "reforged" graphic appearance/update would look good on a future module Pirates related theme
linkletter storyline gone why, plague touched introduction storyline, to begin with is so amazing why remove it, you could have skip the sewers part and make us spawn at the tower when link letter wife rages at enemies and we go call the wizard to calm her and continue the tower puzzles and lead us to the spellscarred zone
about helm's hold it has similarities to vallhala story im ok with it being vaulted, onlly thing i got from it was the masked visor from one of the bosses, a very seductive visor xD
tower district - the zone im good with it to later be major orc invasion module, never understood the orcs invasion on this zone, gonna miss the npc that i bought bags for the zone transmog,
the dragons that were removed would look good as a 10 player trial to win dragonbone weapon transmutes or make them as new weapon set with bonus damage against dragons, respective dragon color armor pieces transmute equal to the black dragonclaw armor (mask + chest+arms+boots) that we see in well of dragons as transmutes or each piece with different equip bonus.
Comments
No matter the rage, this is going to happen so adapt or leave.
If there are no extra campaings like in sharandar that goes from Malabog to the new Sharandar Boss, this new zones might come back as a .5 MOD to give players something to do, feel nostalgic and wait till new full mod.
We might even see simple dungeons going to epic dungeons. Or even older content that some of us never had the chance to play.
Vaulted it is NOT deleted, even if it gives that feeling. They put ton of time, effort and money on them just to say "meh, burn them".
Maybe will have an adventure version of storyteller that doesn't make you rush through content.
I would love if they could tell us what plans or rough plans they have for the future tho, that would give us some ease and we would know how to give more productive feedback.
TL;DR: adapt or leave.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
These devs have taken a lot away. Also remember this Quote:
"First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
This is why I comment on pvp threads for them to be heard, because then there's times like this where pve content is heavily removed. We stand together to keep what we have, or everything is gone. If you don't want to stand with us, don't expect 6 months from now when they remove what you love in this game to have everyone backing you.
Maybe you are not one who cares about the guilds and just out there for yourself but for those of us who are building a guild it is a big slap in the face. We are loosing a good portions of the currency for the guild coffer.
And also as for my personal experience -- meeting and killing the dragon in the graveyard was one of my most exciting experience in NW. It is after all Dungeons and Dragons and not spend ours training to kill Halaster on a small platform. It should be about adventure and not just combat in a small arena.
Also they put in the vault many dungeons and skirmishes with promise they will be back ... ROFL -- I haven't seen any back in years. So yes it is as good as deleted.
First they came for the soulpuppet, and i spoke cuz i was a puppetier.
Then they came for the templock, and i spoke cuz i was a templock.
Then they came for the buffs and debuffs, and i spoke cuz i was a buffer and debuffer.
Then they came for the Life Bind, and i spoke cuz i based my whole build on Life Bind.
Then they came for our heals, and i spoke cuz i am a healer.
I spoke alone, i joined other ppl, and the two options we always had were adapt or leave. Heck, you know what they told us when we said "the sheilds are bad"? They told us "then use the heals over time". That's the kind of ppl you are asking to keep old content.
I whined, i cried and ranted, and nothing of that will ever bring what i most LOVED about the warlock back.
I feel bad for them losing the zones they loved to go kill time, but in the future, when there are no more content or the devs needs to put a "filler" for a new mod, we will see the zones back.
I needed to adapt to every new warlock and learned to LOVE it again, and every single time they just "reworked" it, taking what i LOVED away. So yeah, im used to see what i LOVE being REMOVED and not VAULTED for FUTURE USE.
Does it suck to have content removed? Yes.
Does it suck when it's that much content? Yes.
Do our complains have a weight here? No.
Do our ACTIONS have any weight here? Yes.
And about the original CN, we can only hope. They "reworked" Sharandar, they might bring them back. But then again, we are talking about ppl that instead of listening to TWO threads of warlocks feedback (cuz the first one was so long they needed to create a new one) they just told us "then use the other feat". So if that doesn't tell you that they won't go back on their execution, i don't what else to tell you. The only times they went back on a change (even if a little) it's when the players stop playing.
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
They might change it so single dragons counts as BHE on well of dragons or increase the drops from the 5 dragons. And maybe it's bad luck, but the times i went there i literally never saw anyone.
About halaster and all those fights that requires you hours and hours of practice.. It's the fault of both players and devs. Most ppl don't care anymore about "let's explore!" now it's "rush it or get kicked" :S I remember MC had that "secret" door that took you to like a garden, but they removed it cuz ppl just loved to rush.
And the "deleted" content, we may have hope since they said they want to bring the game more to the "D&D core", so with some luck we might see some back (and with luck not as "storyteller").
Soulweaver: The Lovely Red
Minstrel: The Rose Troubadour
This is so ridiculous.
Module 22 - Pirate's Skyhold
Module 23 - Rothe Valley
Blacklake District and Tower District are in limbo, somewhere between revamp to total annihilation.
Blackdagger RuinsandHelm's Holdthese are part of the Elemental Evil campaign. I wouldn't expect these two are vaulted at all, from what I read.BTW I removed the GIF from the quote, while it was humorous, it was also creeping me out. They might not use them as a module but reintroduce them as a seasonal event as they did with Mad Dragon's Lair.
PSN Zen AD Exchange - Forecasting Spreadsheet
BUT they should have done it immediately or with a more concrete timeline so that players have less to complain about. Plus the story arc has to make sense. Flashbacks to when they removed the original Castle Never and the main fight against Valindra disappeared.
"Our MMORPG has too much quality content" said no MMO dev team. Ever. Until this one.
Several years ago you killed a whole bunch of the dungeons. That went over like a lead balloon.
Remember Call to Arms? Those were fun. Gone.
Now you're carving out the heart of the game. I won't repeat what was said above, but the points are well-taken and valid. Please take a moment to re-read them.
I've always rolled with the game's changes, though I took a break when my beloved pally got nerfed into the ground and I still don't enjoy playing my cleric like I did when he was a DC and had the old set of powers. He's mostly a bank alt these days. While I may roll with these as well, they're a mistake. They gut the storyline, cut out some very enjoyable content, and seriously complicate some of the campaigns you're planning to keep.
"But our analytics show that players don't use these zones." Well, duh. Look, I have a lot of alts and I've run through the base campaign content many times. And I'm here to tell you that even if you don't run a lot of extra stuff, it's basically impossible to make it through the base campaign without out-leveling the content. And the rewards in those zones are so attuned to the levels they're designed for that there's no reason to go back to them once you're over-leveled unless a campaign like Tyranny of Dragons, Acquisitions Inc., or Maze Engine sends you there. But the answer isn't to delete the zones. Give us a reason to go to them. Scale them! Hell, you put in a LOT of effort and caused a lot of player angst tuning the combat system so that it would scale better. USE IT! Scale me down when I'm in Blacklake or Tower District! Then add some class-based or role-based quests, equipment, etc. in those zones so there's some reason to do them.
Note that I don't think the Mod 21 changes are ALL bad. While I think it's a bad idea in general to get rid of the dragons from the Tyranny of Dragons campaign, I will say that that campaign took FOREVER to complete, and streamlining it was a grand idea. I think you just swung the pendulum a bit too far, such that:
1. The TOD campaign no longer has the grand feel to it that it once did. Valindra and the Cult of the Dragon were a force to be reckoned with early on and they seemed to be everywhere. Now? Meh.
2. One of the best sources of TOD stronghold currency was the weekly Defeating Dragons quest that yielded a whopping 10 pages or Arcane Lore (or 20 if it was a 2x TOD/Legacy campaign week). Losing that really hurts for those of us fighting to level our strongholds. The daily common cause was another decent source of currency now lost.
3. The Dragon Bone weapons were pretty cool, and honestly for the last 6+ years I've been looking forward to farming a set for my Druid. Er, Bard, I guess. I don't suppose I'll be playing a Dragon Bone Lute anytime soon.
So I think the overarching idea of streamlining TOD was a good one, you just went a little crazy with it.
I've never seen Cryptic change course due to player input once you've made a controversial decision like this. At least not that I can remember. But boy, I think you really missed the mark on this one and I for one would rather see you push back mod 21 by months if necessary than gut the game this way.
Zemmer's quests were pulled from Neverdeath. While they weren't essential to the narrative, they were at least funny. Edit: Oh, and you managed to break "A Lich's Lament". Of course, you already ruined the ride on that one by bringing the lich back for a throwaway side piece.
But then, as other respondents have noted, material that was essential to the narrative was excised with extreme prejudice.
From what I've seen so far, calling this a disaster is an insult to disasters. It's as if a dumpster fire and a train wreck had a baby and it was raised by Lindsey Lohan and Britney Spears.
[Blacklake District]
Belt of CaptaincyBoots of Far StridingCorsair's SashMaelstrom CloakOrb of ConfusionHexbane HoodStormshield[Blackdagger Ruins]
Collar of CommandGirdle of the DamnedHellbound BootsHood of the SuccubiOrb of FireRobes of AsmodeusShield of AsmodeusSymbol of Asmodeus[Helm's Hold]
Archon BracersArchon HelmArchon's FalchionBoots of the Fire GiantBrimstone MaceHellfire ArmorSearing Belt[Mount Hotenow]
Lizardfolk ArmorLizardfolk BeltLizardfolk BracersLizardfolk CircletLizardfolk GreavesLizardfolk ShieldScalefather's DaggerScalefather's Symbol[Pirate's Skyhold]
Belt of Spider ControlBlade of the DriderCirclet of WebsDrow BracersSignet of the PredatoSpider ArmorSymbol of LolthTalisman of the Spider[Rothe Valley]
Machete of GruumshBelt of the Many ArrowsBone-Shard BindingsBracers of ScoutingMancleaverMarauder's GarbDead🔪Among others Helm's hold, Rothé Valley and Mount Hotenow are such good places with good lore.
And there are lot's of reference.
Like the Nashers for example. Mentioned in the Protector's Jubilee speech or you have to go back to Blacklace District from Cloaked ascendancy if I remember correctly.
Yeah, we get a story about what other adventurers did...
Rothé valley + 1 portion of whispering caverns are connected to drows and Lolth storyline why split the story line, drow lore got changed/updated recently in d&d does it have to do about this new update to lore?
mount hotenow + other part of the whispering caverns, fire giants lore + duergar lore also introduces ilithids to storyline why split again this continues as we explore underdark later in mantel-derith and demogorgon story line
black dagger ruins + pirate's skyhold connected story line for cragsmire crypt and pirate dungeon, these 2 combined with a "reforged" graphic appearance/update would look good on a future module Pirates related theme
linkletter storyline gone why, plague touched introduction storyline, to begin with is so amazing why remove it, you could have skip the sewers part and make us spawn at the tower when link letter wife rages at enemies and we go call the wizard to calm her and continue the tower puzzles and lead us to the spellscarred zone
about helm's hold it has similarities to vallhala story im ok with it being vaulted, onlly thing i got from it was the masked visor from one of the bosses, a very seductive visor xD
tower district - the zone im good with it to later be major orc invasion module, never understood the orcs invasion on this zone, gonna miss the npc that i bought bags for the zone transmog,
the dragons that were removed would look good as a 10 player trial to win dragonbone weapon transmutes or make them as new weapon set with bonus damage against dragons, respective dragon color armor pieces transmute equal to the black dragonclaw armor (mask + chest+arms+boots) that we see in well of dragons as transmutes or each piece with different equip bonus.