rank 7 demotions

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

A friend of mine and I are arguing over trying to demote a rank 7 member (As punishment). how are you supposed to change leaders if as he says they can just login and refuse to be demoted?

if there are 5 rank 7 members shouldn't 3/5 be able to demote without the demotee being able to deny the demotion?

if that isn't the case, strongholds have really been jerked around by this change.

jules · May 2021

On the other side a bunch of 5 rank 7s could gang up and steal a guild.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

so once you make someone a rank 7 it's forever? or until they die?

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

basically we're arguing now if the rank 7 who causes drama refuses to leave, you'll never be able to demote or kick them? sounds like a HUGE BUG in the game.

plasticbat · May 2021

That is why it should not have too many rank 7 and all the rank 7 should be tight with each other. If that can't be done, have 1 rank 7. In our guild, the rank 7s (of different generation) resigned and left on their own. They were never kicked.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

what if you think the player you promoted sold the account? now it's someone not talking to you, doing things to cause drama and you still can't kick / demote them?

plasticbat · May 2021

psychoticsatyr said:
what if you think the player you promoted sold the account? now it's someone not talking to you, doing things to cause drama and you still can't kick / demote them?

You should only promote one who you can trust and tight with. Before he sold the account, he should have told you. If you can't trust the person fully, it should have one rank 7.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

i agree, but you have to see that this is clearly a HUGE bug in the mechanics if you can never demote a rank 7 because they can still just deny their own demotion.

plasticbat · May 2021

psychoticsatyr said:
i agree, but you have to see that this is clearly a HUGE bug in the mechanics if you can never demote a rank 7 because they can still just deny their own demotion.

The same protection applies to you when others gang up to demote you. As an outsider, I may view you could be the one who is trying to steal the guild from him (just saying to illustrate the opposite viewpoint and not actually accuse you are the one).

If a bunch of rank 7 can demote a rank 7, this is what I would imagine how to steal a guild:

I got promoted by a rank 7 to be rank 7.
Find the right time (such as knowing the original rank 7 is in vacation), invite a few guild members (who can all be my own accounts).
Promote them to rank 7.
Gang up to kick the original rank 7.
It can be 10 vs 1.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

the guild i question has 5 rank 7's 3 of whom should be able to promote or demote anyone. the 2 weeks promotion / demotion change is very poor in my opinion. idle guild leaders had 30 days to be idle before being replaced, now they have 6 weeks.

and if this is truly the case, rank 7's only ever need to login and eventually they will be the only ones in the guild. since they can boot everyone lower than them, and no one can stop them or demote them.

and yes, 3 of 5 could and should be able to take over the guild house. majority rules and all that. or 3 of the 5 should be able to boot any rank 7 or demote them to rank 6 then boot them.

plasticbat · May 2021

psychoticsatyr said:
the guild i question has 5 rank 7's 3 of whom should be able to promote or demote anyone. the 2 weeks promotion / demotion change is very poor in my opinion. idle guild leaders had 30 days to be idle before being replaced, now they have 6 weeks.

and if this is truly the case, rank 7's only ever need to login and eventually they will be the only ones in the guild. since they can boot everyone lower than them, and no one can stop them or demote them.

and yes, 3 of 5 could and should be able to take over the guild house. majority rules and all that. or 3 of the 5 should be able to boot any rank 7 or demote them to rank 6 then boot them.

As the example illustrated above (if rank 7 can be demoted by majority), one could make another 10 rank 7 and demote the 4 original rank 7. Of course, you can also make more rank 7 to fight the rank 7 majority war. Regardless, the guild is more or less destroyed after this war.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

the question is / was can you veto your own rank 7 demotion? if you and i rank 7s and i want to demote you, can you login and deny your own demotion? if so, there is a huge problem. i understand any other rank 7's can stop it, but you should not be able to stop your own.

plasticbat · May 2021

psychoticsatyr said:
the question is / was can you veto your own rank 7 demotion? if you and i rank 7s and i want to demote you, can you login and deny your own demotion? if so, there is a huge problem. i understand any other rank 7's can stop it, but you should not be able to stop your own.

1. If there are only 2 rank 7, using what you propose, I will be demoted and cannot stop unless I do (2).
2. Before I am demoted, I can invite more rank 7 to defend me.

rockster · May 2021

There should really only be one player in the position of guild leader at any given time, unless that leader is planning on leaving and promotes someone else to take over in which case there would be two at once until the original leader leaves. If a guild wants to be able to have a backup leader in the event that something happens to the leader and they disappear for good unexpectedly, the leader can organize a contingency plan where they have the backup leader who the leader knows and trusts will not abuse the system at rank 6 on their own with no other members sitting at rank 6, and the leader assigns the rights to 'promote to any rank' to rank 6 so they can promote themselves if they need to. Plasticbat has it right, there is no place for majority rules in the rank of leader because it can be abused and lead to guild theft.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

not the question, no matter what you think this guild has 5 separate rank 7's. 1 is being bad, can he be demoted or is he stuck at level 7 forever. thanks for your opinions but not the question.

unkowndabber · May 2021

Uhh just started playing this game tried to make a forum thread but it doesnt allow me to.
i have only played 6 hours and im liking this game.
Can anyone give me some tips?
Im particularly confused about the gems and zen

greywynd · May 2021

Might be easier, instead of soliciting opinions, to contact support and ask them.

greywynd · May 2021

unkowndabber#2737 said:
Uhh just started playing this game tried to make a forum thread but it doesnt allow me to.
i have only played 6 hours and im liking this game.
Can anyone give me some tips?
Im particularly confused about the gems and zen

If you just started, ignore zen unless there is something in the zen store that you REALLY want.

Gems are refinement points to upgrade enchantments/artifacts with, or used in the workshop to make jewelry.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

greywynd said:
Might be easier, instead of soliciting opinions, to contact support and ask them.

once i started getting comments not related to the question i did open a support ticket, but having dealt with cryptic support for many years, i thought maybe someone in the forums has already run into this issue.

autumnwitch · May 2021

IMO In most circumstances there should only be one Rank 7 (account wise) per GH the person who founded the guild (assuming they are active). This will make most of the problems in the this thread moot. The Rank 7 should only promote to Rank 6 one or two other players (accounts) that could/should replace them if something happens to them IRL and they are unable to log in and take care of business.

Via settings R6s can be set to do almost anything the R7s can as far as day to day GH business is concerned meaning the SH can still run smoothly if the R7 is absent for a while.

If there is a case of several people founding the GH together there should be a vote or decision of who should be the R7 & R6s and everyone will have to live with that for good or bad. There is no rule saying you have to stay with a guild if you end up not liking it.

One thing people REALLY need to get their head wrapped around in the ranking promotions as an ego thing to be hoarded over the lower ranks because in the end they don't make you a better or stronger player. If your R7 and R6s are doing their job leading the SH it really doesn't matter what rank you are. And again, no one has to stay with a guild if you don't like the leadership.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

i agree, but again, not my guild, not my question. I asked for a friend if it's possible to demote a rank 7 without them cancelling their own demotion. And as expected support is worthless telling me they can not intervene in guild politics and all internal issues have to be handled by the guild leaders, so they too missed the point of my question.

if person A is a rank 7 and person B is a rank 7, and person A demotes person B, can person B login and stop their own demotion, that's it? Can they stop their own demotion?

nic1985 · May 2021

> @psychoticsatyr said:
> i agree, but again, not my guild, not my question. I asked for a friend if it's possible to demote a rank 7 without them cancelling their own demotion. And as expected support is worthless telling me they can not intervene in guild politics and all internal issues have to be handled by the guild leaders, so they too missed the point of my question.
>
> if person A is a rank 7 and person B is a rank 7, and person A demotes person B, can person B login and stop their own demotion, that's it? Can they stop their own demotion?

NO person B can’t log in and stop their own demotion. From the link below go to “Guild Protection” details.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/xbox/neverwinter/news/detail/11476683-patch-notes:-version:-nw.122.20200708b.4

Cryptic is correct to not interfere, since this is internal guild drama. They will interfere if there is a guild theft.

mentinmindmaker · May 2021

Basically if you get a problem with a rank 7 you are HAMSTER.

Before they implemented the provisional rank 7 thing one errant rank 7 could hijack the guild. So at least it is better now than it was.

You could implement voting type mechanisms, but then the troublemaker could just invite and promote his friends to outvote you.

Remember any mechanism you propose could be used against you.

A level 7 war would be ugly

Do not make level 7's you have not known for a long time and trust. And demote level 7's quickly if they go idle or the accounts could be taken over. You can always promote them back up if they go active again.

Level 7's is all about trust. From a guild operational point all the necessary privileges can be given to the level 6's.

psychoticsatyr · May 2021

nic1985 said:
> @psychoticsatyr said:
> i agree, but again, not my guild, not my question. I asked for a friend if it's possible to demote a rank 7 without them cancelling their own demotion. And as expected support is worthless telling me they can not intervene in guild politics and all internal issues have to be handled by the guild leaders, so they too missed the point of my question.
>
> if person A is a rank 7 and person B is a rank 7, and person A demotes person B, can person B login and stop their own demotion, that's it? Can they stop their own demotion?

NO person B can’t log in and stop their own demotion. From the link below go to “Guild Protection” details.

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/xbox/neverwinter/news/detail/11476683-patch-notes:-version:-nw.122.20200708b.4

Cryptic is correct to not interfere, since this is internal guild drama. They will interfere if there is a guild theft.

the leader pending demotion will not be able to kick, promote, or demote any other guild members.

that is what i thought, so if no other leaders are against the demotion, then it will go thru in 2 weeks. but the person being demoted can not stop their own demotion. THAT IS THE ANSWER I SEEK.

thank you for looking past the issue of having more than 1 rank 7 and actually answering the question.

QM

armadeonx · May 2021

It does raise one question from the guild protection update/patch - namely, can one leader demote more than one other leader at once?

If it is possible for one leader to put all others on demotion at the same time, it would still enable that person to take overall control.

To my mind, the safest solution would've been a voting system where all existing rank 7's vote on not only the removal of a fellow 7, but also any promotions to that rank - to prevent a person from adding accounts to that status in order to have a voting majority.

blargskull · May 2021

armadeonx said:
It does raise one question from the guild protection update/patch - namely, can one leader demote more than one other leader at once?

If it is possible for one leader to put all others on demotion at the same time, it would still enable that person to take overall control.

To my mind, the safest solution would've been a voting system where all existing rank 7's vote on not only the removal of a fellow 7, but also any promotions to that rank - to prevent a person from adding accounts to that status in order to have a voting majority.

No you must demote one at a time and then wait for the demotion time to pass.

Last year one of my characters (not very active) helped form a guild. All 3 Guild Leaders rank 7 were absent for over a year, I took control and demoted the absent leaders one by one. I am the only rank 7 now, if they had cared about the guild one of them would have shown up by now. If they remain absent, I might kick them altogether. But as it stands they are now all still members just not active.

greywynd said:
Might be easier, instead of soliciting opinions, to contact support and ask them.

Most common response to that is, Sorry this is not in within my ability. Support never got anyone's stolen guild back, why would this situation be any different?

greywynd · May 2021

armadeonx said:
It does raise one question from the guild protection update/patch - namely, can one leader demote more than one other leader at once?

If it is possible for one leader to put all others on demotion at the same time, it would still enable that person to take overall control.

To my mind, the safest solution would've been a voting system where all existing rank 7's vote on not only the removal of a fellow 7, but also any promotions to that rank - to prevent a person from adding accounts to that status in order to have a voting majority.

Safest solution to my mind is to only have one rank 7.

blargskull · May 2021

greywynd said:

armadeonx said:
It does raise one question from the guild protection update/patch - namely, can one leader demote more than one other leader at once?

If it is possible for one leader to put all others on demotion at the same time, it would still enable that person to take overall control.

To my mind, the safest solution would've been a voting system where all existing rank 7's vote on not only the removal of a fellow 7, but also any promotions to that rank - to prevent a person from adding accounts to that status in order to have a voting majority.
Safest solution to my mind is to only have one rank 7.

The main guild I belong to is owned by one person all his characters are rank 7, we seem to have no issues with him, even when he seldom allows his guild lapse, a few of us have his email and cell number to remind him every 30 days. If guild leaders are more attentive, they wouldn't lose their guilds to the wolves.

My advice, if or when you take over a guild from an absent guild leader, don't be a Richard and start kicking all the players and robbing the banks. If you take over and find it too much of a burden just hold an election and hand the job off to someone who cares about it.

Hey! Richard guess what I just found out? Your nickname is a dirty word!

rockster · May 2021

greywynd said:

armadeonx said:
It does raise one question from the guild protection update/patch - namely, can one leader demote more than one other leader at once?

If it is possible for one leader to put all others on demotion at the same time, it would still enable that person to take overall control.

To my mind, the safest solution would've been a voting system where all existing rank 7's vote on not only the removal of a fellow 7, but also any promotions to that rank - to prevent a person from adding accounts to that status in order to have a voting majority.
Safest solution to my mind is to only have one rank 7.

To me, the position of leader is akin to the position of King or Queen and there is traditionally only one of those at any given time. To me having more than one person as leader goes against the vibe of where we are supposed to be existing in Neverwinter which is in extremely olden days with lords, kings, slaves/minions, hierarchy, not a recent democratic 21st century world. I think the guild rank system was probably designed with this ethos in mind and if people try to make it do other things it will cause issues at rank 7. But that's just my view.

greywynd · May 2021

rockster#6227 said:

To me, the position of leader is akin to the position of King or Queen and there is traditionally only one of those at any given time. To me having more than one person as leader goes against the vibe of where we are supposed to be existing in Neverwinter which is in extremely olden days with lords, kings, slaves/minions, hierarchy, not a recent democratic 21st century world. I think the guild rank system was probably designed with this ethos in mind and if people try to make it do other things it will cause issues at rank 7. But that's just my view.

My issue is if a decision to be made and all the r7's have to vote on it, what comes first? Them logging in to vote or their demotion?

rockster · May 2021

Yup. It's a potential nightmare.

rank 7 demotions

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