When removing gear makes you better



  • flyball#6248
    flyball#6248 Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Scaling for me is really a problem. Not sure how many here remember when there toon was sub 10k or sub lvl 80 or when they just came into the game. Yes there were too many l80s one shotting all the dragons while they were still in flight. but now its like the Devs and the company no longer give a rat's HAMSTER about new players and by the Tower district the game become suddenly impossibly hard to play.

    If they wanted it more like D&D where is the Monk Class? or Bard Class? SHould not thieves be able to "sneak" and avoid combat altogether by stealing "quest" items for retrieval? Perhaps being able to create a distraction.

    Just so many things that could have made the game better and they chose this scaling HAMSTER.
  • kickiusassius#6340
    kickiusassius#6340 Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    The more I try to understand the new combat changes, the more frustrated I get. A few examples in NON-scaled areas.

    1. Dismiss my companion, most of my stat percentages increase by roughly 1%.
    2. Remove a ring with offensive stats, all my defensive percentages increase.
    3. Unequip Mythic Arcturia's Music Box, most of my stat percentages increase.

    This seems counter intuitive... Am I to expect that every item will increase 2 or 3 stats percentages and the rest will decrease?

    It's like Cryptic has implemented some strange and warped fantasy version of the first law of thermodynamics. Add this mess to scaling...

    I'm really trying to be positive, but what the *Hamster* Cryptic? Maybe try consulting with a few Mathematicians and Psychologists on how to fix this core system.
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    2. Remove a ring with offensive stats, all my defensive percentages increase.

    That's perfectly normal. your total IL dropped, but your defensive stats did not change, so they are now a higher percentage of TIL. Note that un unscaled content there is no good reason to remove gear - some stats may go up, but your TIL drops, and as that determines your base damage you will not be better off.

    In scaled context, however.......
    Hoping for improvements...
  • rikitaki
    rikitaki Member Posts: 806 Arc User
    Well, it is design. They mentioned it in the introduction - you char starts at 50% effectiveness in all stats, and as it progresses to higher IL, your effectiveness drops.

    While such design is kinda ridiculous from the dnd perspective, it is still intentional behaviour, so do not expect any further official responses, let alone some changes to this system till the next rework. (probably a year or so)
  • eladonwarps#6040
    eladonwarps#6040 Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    > @zimxero#8085 said:
    > Are you sure it's intended? I am wondering if the intention was to start characters at 100%, and then every upgrade lowers the percent until they hit zero. Then your character just deletes itself. If so.. it's still a 'little' buggy.

    I finally understand what THAC0 "To Hit Armor Class Zero" means.
    Call me El, she/her only. Currently Professions-only until the next combat change fixes this mess.
  • holikiir#8597
    holikiir#8597 Member Posts: 38 Arc User
    [Trying again cause for some reason this comment didn't show. Sorry if you get multiple, I'll delete it if that happens]

    Overall, I like the idea of scaling. And I've seen it work great in other games.

    There are currently 2 problems with it. One is old, one is new.

    The old one is already pointed. Having to downscale equipment to perform better in scaled content kinda happened before, cause scaling was messy. It happened in dungeons, trials and even some events. The point is that this whole system was designed to solve this problem. And as it shows, it didn't already.

    I also don't think it's THAT horrible. It's a slight difference. But I get the frustration of losing the progression factor. For me, it has something to do with the new problem...

    We're taking much more time to do simple things. DGs we did in 10 minutes, we're doing in 20. Some mini-bosses that were destroyed in seconds are harder than final bosses. Questing in campaign maps can take much more time than before... And we're not getting anything better for that.

    The games that I played in which scaling worked, usually had a system where your loot is based on your progression. Usually something like "items appropriate for your level". But Neverwinter have a lv80 cap that we hit very fast, being ILV the more accurate manner to measure that progression. So maybe it could be a factor in loot and make things a little more fair for everyone.

    Because right now we have more developed players (sometimes much more) doing the same content as very new and undergear players, with very similar performances and receiving basically the same loot. That will be great for a developing toon. But trash for advanced players.

    It kinda kills some end game experience, and the idea is making we desire to progress.
  • xtremoz
    xtremoz Member Posts: 300 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Having the system based on ILV and then ignore all the system with scalling is stupid... Iam a tank I need High HP most HP come from ILV i queue for a dungeon and my 950k HP go to 400k - 500k... even on high lv dungeon like TIC my 950k HP go to 790k buffed that explains alot of 1 shots.

    Bosses still hit for 1mil alot i just dont have 1mil HP like I had. Based dmg is 1/10 of ILv then u scales and your based dmg at 50k is the same as mine at 35k when we both scale to 30k.

    Meaning ILV that should be the base for Damage and HP its negated by scaling. that why Player are using old gear with flat % to damage... I lose 2-3k ilv but I get 10%+ dmg, scaling need to be adjust and alot.

    Scaling should not make HP and base dmg = to all if they are at diferent ILV.

    Lets say 3 players 30k, 40k and 50k, running lv 30k dungeon.

    30k ILV - get no scaling - that like 3k base dmg and 300k HP
    40k Ilv - get scaled to 30k + added 20% to base dmg and HP (2% for each 1k ilv over) _ 3.6k base dmg 360k HP
    50K ILV - get scaled to 30 + added 40% to based dmg and HP (2% for each 1k ilv over) - 4.2k base dmg 420k HP

    On top of that u had the class related buff like 20%+ HP to tank, 20% more dmg to dps.

    The Combat system is based on ILV; But our ILV ignored in dungeons. the more ILV the more dmg the more ILV the more HP, none is true cuz we all get scaled, without ILV making any difference in the scale system.
  • hustin1
    hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    Removing gear lowers your HP and base damage, but in many cases this is being offset by a corresponding increase in the percentage effectiveness of your stats. To me it says that the effect of TIL on HP and base damage is way too shallow. For example, when you create a fresh character at level 1, you start out with 100k HP. At level 80 your HP has only multiplied by a factor of 3 to 5 on average.
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