Armor Break and Horn of Valhalla are "little" overperforming

rysiek86 · February 2021

Does this companion active power works as intended ?? Should it be stackable ?? I am not an expert but when whole raid is equiped with this the boss melts, you dont need to care about your caps on stats. I dont know if it should be like that, after all we should care about our stats, excause me if im wrong.

Are not the trials ment to be done by raids that play with 2 tanks ?? That expect cooperation between those 2 players that provide us the safety of not being damaged by the boss directly, by knowing the mechanics and swap the boss between in right moments ?? Having 2 tanks in party allows to learn the mechanics. Offtank can be the learning one and Maintank is the teacher. How players (new tanks) are supposed to learn the trial when everyone expect to be experianced on solo tanking?? Again i am not an expert but i think that changing the bonus of the artifact to something like improving tank aggro would be an improvement for weilder as well. The usage of an item shouldnt create an artificial tank for 3 seconds. Again, excause me if im wrong.

Any response from developers would be kind

Thank you for the attention and have a nice day.

rysiek86 · February 2021

Another item with overperformance ... 30% damage reduction ?? Why ??

coolgor28 · February 2021

In this rework all mobs and bosses have defense and players don't have armor penetration where is the problem using armor break to lower their defense, If you don't want to use it don't use it , Is more hard to convince players to use it and play like a team then been selfish dps. I see all the time only the like 1% or top players asking for these nerfs and rest of not maxed players still cant even break ice in tomm. If you don't like tell you party not to use it don't ask for nerf other people want to use it .

If we all ask for nerfs we will start to ask for forte nerfs class nerfs .

damnacious · February 2021

coolgor28#5062 said:
In this rework all mobs and bosses have defense and players don't have armor penetration where is the problem using armor break to lower their defense, If you don't want to use it don't use it , Is more hard to convince players to use it and play like a team then been selfish dps. I see all the time only the like 1% or top players asking for these nerfs and rest of not maxed players still cant even break ice in tomm. If you don't like tell you party not to use it don't ask for nerf other people want to use it .

If we all ask for nerfs we will start to ask for forte nerfs class nerfs .

Coolgor, you've been around for a very long time, and I'm sure you've seen it as much as i have - the players who discover these 'cheese' methods for completing end-game content, are often the ones advocating for nerfs in other aspects, so their capacity to complete end-content unimpeded provides them certain 'financial' and 'ego' increases, while others who don't use these 'cheese' methods then struggle to complete that content.

The problem, then, is not with those who report these 'cheese' methods, but lies, instead, with those who advocate, push and encourage more wide-spread nerfs which 'force' players to even use these 'cheese' methods to complete content - i.e. 'remove the need for cheese, and the cheese, and it's nerf or not, is no longer a problem'.

aster · February 2021

coolgor28#5062 said:
In this rework all mobs and bosses have defense and players don't have armor penetration where is the problem using armor break to lower their defense, If you don't want to use it don't use it , Is more hard to convince players to use it and play like a team then been selfish dps. I see all the time only the like 1% or top players asking for these nerfs and rest of not maxed players still cant even break ice in tomm. If you don't like tell you party not to use it don't ask for nerf other people want to use it .

If we all ask for nerfs we will start to ask for forte nerfs class nerfs .

The problem is that it stacks and this brings the boss defense to 0%, and I think is not intended especially with this CombatRework that changes totally the game. Yesterday we did a VoS in preview and we did ONE PHASE on first golemof third boss with 5 armor break and debuff artis. And thats, for me, is not fun or just stay with old mod and go powercreeping.

coolgor28 · February 2021

Well vos bosses are a joke now after they nerfed it i write it on preview . i know what you mean i don't mind if it don't stack but you cant make artificially something hard for 3mod old trial. You are focusing to much on this thing, What you want to achieve to be dead like zariel, at least people that are not maxed can farm tomm like before rework as most players got nerfed.

jman3l · February 2021

> @coolgor28#5062 said:
> In this rework all mobs and bosses have defense and players don't have armor penetration where is the problem using armor break to lower their defense, If you don't want to use it don't use it , Is more hard to convince players to use it and play like a team then been selfish dps. I see all the time only the like 1% or top players asking for these nerfs and rest of not maxed players still cant even break ice in tomm. If you don't like tell you party not to use it don't ask for nerf other people want to use it .
>
> If we all ask for nerfs we will start to ask for forte nerfs class nerfs .

There are several methods to reduce defense. Armor break is -7.5%, dread enchant -4%, frost -4%. The problem with armor break is that it's stacking 10x and making boss defense go negative lol. The power creep is as bad as it was pre combat rework when 10x are used. Armor break should NOT stack. As in, only one player should slot it in a raid. These trials should remain somewhat challenging. Removing its ability to stack would allow for other companion enhancement slots to be used. Lowering enemy awareness or deflect for example.

coolgor28 · February 2021

I know you want to make the game on your point of view, and i know how armor break works will help at least most under geared players. and most players are capping 4 stats already what else to use? And why you want to make artificially hard a content that most of us have run it like 1000 times, in mod 17 was fun now is just boring. they need to make new content hard not the make old content hard and nerf players.

jman3l · February 2021

> @coolgor28#5062 said:
> I know you want to make the game on your point of view, and i know how armor break works will help at least most under geared players. and most players are capping 4 stats already what else to use? And why you want to make artificially hard a content that most of us have run it like 1000 times, in mod 17 was fun now is just boring. they need to make new content hard not the make old content hard and nerf players.

Because that content should be hard, and it should be overcome with skill, not a braindead exploit that makes enemy defense go to -25%. There are other purple slots that lower enemy deflect, lower enemy awareness, lower their CA etc., raise your defense or awareness. What you are suggesting is boring and ridiculous. You even said, under geared players use to complete TOMM. Okay, under geared players should NOT be able to complete TOMM. Play any other mmo and you will see that the hardest trials require a lot of gearing and preparation. You can't just go in, slot a ridiculous one button skill and break the trial in 6 minutes like you can in NW.

coolgor28 · February 2021

When i say under geared i say same players that were farming tomm already and not capping all stats not new players. Most of runs are from same people i don't see what is problem on what other player are using is not like all play with all, we all have for most part fixed community. Is not mod 17 that you want to manipulate rings and don't want other people to finish it but only the 0.1% of to sell. you want hard don't use it you want to carry some people to get weapons use it , everyone has the freedom to do it. If devs say is no supposed to work fine but is not in player hand. Don't think because you don't play with other players they don't know what are doing .

jman3l · February 2021

coolgor28#5062 said:
When i say under geared i say same players that were farming tomm already and not capping all stats not new players. Most of runs are from same people i don't see what is problem on what other player are using is not like all play with all, we all have for most part fixed community. Is not mod 17 that you want to manipulate rings and don't want other people to finish it but only the 0.1% of to sell. you want hard don't use it you want to carry some people to get weapons use it , everyone has the freedom to do it. If devs say is no supposed to work fine but is not in player hand. Don't think because you don't play with other players they don't know what are doing .

I play with others who are not "1% players." They also agree that 10x armor break is ridiculous. Again its not about getting wealthy off of the drops, its about what kind of game NW should be. Defense shouldn't go negative, armor break should not stack. It does not make sense from a game diversity point of view. How about we have groups actually use some creativity instead of all slotting the braindead option? There are no "caps" anymore, only under geared and properly geared players. Under geared players should be wiping often. That is how trials, even older ones, in every other mmo on the market operates.

coolgor28 · February 2021

You said yourself even with this broken stacking armor break no more then 2 tomm runs and zariel are running a day, why we even argue about armor break and the game situation that is nothing worth to run. if you want not to use it don't use it i like hard content that's why i don't bother running anything anymore was fun when they are new but after that not anymore, only to help people.

jman3l · February 2021

coolgor28#5062 said:
You said yourself even with this broken stacking armor break no more then 2 tomm runs and zariel are running a day, why we even argue about armor break and the game situation that is nothing worth to run. if you want not to use it don't use it i like hard content that's why i don't bother running anything anymore was fun when they are new but after that not anymore, only to help people.

This is a separate issue. Plenty of people are running TOMM, nobody is running ZC. The reason is because a mod 11 weapon set is beating the weapon set obtained from the hardest trial in the game.. which is ridiculous game design. I have proposed numerous times for large buffs to celestial weapons. They are supposed to be, and should be the best weapons, and by a solid margin. That would instantly fix the problem of nobody running the trial.

silente07 · February 2021

Why do you care? The 1% that runs this content always find new ways to play it. Som call it cheese, I would say they just want to try new play through.
If you want it hard then make that clear with your group or SELF nerf your toon.
Why nerf others because YOU don’t like the experience.
There will ALWAYS be something new players find to run content. There are lots of players who enjoy finding those new ways since they have finished content and are bored.

This constantly nerfing things because players have found a way to make it easy.

Challenge yourself
Run without comps or rings.

But it will get nerfed and you guys can feel good about remaining the 1% and keeping the game pure. How you like it.

darthpotater · February 2021

This discussion is pointless. The only relevant thing is if that effects are intended to work like in this way or not.

You cant call it a nerf on something that is not intended. You can call it a bug or a mistake. The whole system has changed, they overlooked some things, and more will appear.

I bet that armor break being stackable is not intended. Not sure in the horn tho. It opens options in playstiles, and doesnt make you fly over the bosses.

durugudesu · February 2021

@nitocris83 @noworries#8859 Armor Break Issue.

jman3l · February 2021

silente07#2597 said:
Why do you care? The 1% that runs this content always find new ways to play it. Som call it cheese, I would say they just want to try new play through.

If you want it hard then make that clear with your group or SELF nerf your toon.

Why nerf others because YOU don’t like the experience.

There will ALWAYS be something new players find to run content. There are lots of players who enjoy finding those new ways since they have finished content and are bored.

This constantly nerfing things because players have found a way to make it easy.

Challenge yourself

Run without comps or rings.

But it will get nerfed and you guys can feel good about remaining the 1% and keeping the game pure. How you like it.

No other mmo needs players to make such extreme decisions like self nerfing for a challenge. And also, my friends and I (#FreeColdWater) did a 5 man deathless hardcore mode TOMM pre combat rework. It was solo heal / solo tank + 3 dps. How's that for challenge? That shouldn't be possible in any mmo ever. I care because even the so called "1%" don't want to steam roll a trial in 6 minutes. Its not good for the game if 50% of the player base can complete the hardest content in the game because of a broken option being used. Self nerfing for a challenge is the worst suggestion I've ever seen on these forums xD. How about a veteran mode of every trial with 5x difficulty, but 5x rewards? I'd be cool with this. It gets shot down every time its suggested though.

katastrophe007 · February 2021

I think that the point that @rysiek86 is trying to make is that yes there any many "issues" and overlooked bits in this new combat rework (hopefully in the back of someone's mind) but come on - let's make something in this game challenging. If it is intended to stack (speaking of armour break) it should never bring down the bosses defence to negative values. If you want to keep that mechanic - so be it, but make it so bosses can only fall to a certain % of defensive stats not all the way down. This just makes end game pointless, as all you need if to have a companion enhancement with that bonus and a semi decent team and you're gucci. I've been playing this game for 7 years now - and I agree there is always people using some sorts of exploits but end game content should be somewhat resistant to those tricks. That makes people that have been playing the game have a bad taste in their mouth as there is no point of going further with your character as mentioned previously - to achieve the end result you DON'T EVEN HAVE TO HAVE STAT CAPS.

Just a few words from your friendly neighbourhood healer

Really hope this will get some attention from the devs.

Armor Break and Horn of Valhalla are "little" overperforming

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